Mandatory 4wd Licencing- soon to be a reality.

[Ace]

Hi all, this has been on the cards for some time now. But i was at my 4wd clubs monthly meeting last night and the 4wd Council rep announced that the safetey council or what ever they are called is proposing a bill to parliment to make 4wd training and separate licencing madatory for all dirvers of 4wd vehicles. If this goes ahead anyone who wishes to drive a 4wd will need a different licence, unless you are already licenced to drive a truck, i which case you are deemed qualified. L platers will also be banned from driving 4wds, which makes training young drivers difficult for 4wd only families.

Has anyone heard any differing info to the info i listed above, as our council rep didnt seem to know that much. Matt

[disco95]

I can't see how the big manufacturers can allow a law like that, they will lose so much of their market. Seriously, how many prado soccer mums would sell the 4WD and buy a 2WD toyota to carry their kids :?:
I don't see the government being so shortsighted as to think that the big people mover vans can be any safer than 4wds.



Or maybe I'm just being hopeful.

[KEV0044]

...

[Ace]

Originally posted by KEV0044
Hi ! Ace ,
What - 4wd Club - do you belong to ????
Kev .

Central West 4wd Club, top bunch of blokes.

And disco, i dont know that the manufactures have much choice, there are a few big wigs pushing this, and from what i have heard anything which the safety council proposes generally gets passed. Matt

[disco95]

I would they wpouldn't come much bigger than the heads of the likes of nissan, toyota and mitsubishi.
Perhaps if things don't look like going their way they'll sic the yakuza onto them style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[one_iota]

To keep this "hoary chestnut" going:

If licensing involves testing off road as well as on road driving skills then a vast number of 4wd owners will be out of their element and will question their need to own one. What are we afraid of?

Manufacturers will rip out the 4wd components and you wil be able to purchase 2wd Land Cruisers et al. What will that achieve?

I personally don't have a problem with it except for the usual protracted philosophical/political arguments that accompany things like gun ownership and usually result in divisiveness, bumper stickering and name calling. All resulting in no measurable outcome but a lot of self satisfaction and claimed high moral ground.

[Redbak]

I'v done my 4x4 training and wouldnt mind doing a 4x4 test,
but I doubt thats what the Gov have in mind.

More likely a standard test for heavy vehicle, full of bullsh$t
and stupid "answer like a parrot questions".
Any idiot with a good memory can pass those things ... :cry:

Different story when mum's driving a 2 ton lump of Japanese
steel racing to the chemist for her Prozac and comes unstuck
from the road ... :cry:

Davo

[Ace]

I think it has its good points, it will get those who arent serious out of 4wd and increase our public image, but i think the regs are trying to be introduced for the wrong reasons, they are just targeting 4wds, they dont really give a stuff about safety. Matt

[Yabbie]

Ace wrote....<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think it has its good points, it will get those who arent serious out of 4wd and increase our public image, but i think the regs are trying to be introduced for the wrong reasons, they are just targeting 4wds, they dont really give a stuff about safety. Matt [/b][/quote]

Like most proposals put forward to government this idea is just another grab for cash from those who the powers that be feel can afford it.

Examples ...

Speed cameras, Don't seem to be reducing the number of speed related fatalities however the revenue raised from the infringements hardly ever is put back in to maintaining roads.

Breath testing, Sure Dirnk driving isn't something that we need on our roads as I am sure we all know of a Fatality caused as a result of drink related driving, yet in saying that most people at one stage have driven when they shouldn't have even if it was just over 0.5 or well over.

Gun Buyback's, Sure families of people who die at the hands of a firearm related incident want justice but to remove all firearms from those who are law abidding seems to be a beat of a different drum. People still are being shot dead, if all the ILLEGAL GUNS were taken from those that intend on using them for ILLEGAL purposes perhaps that would have been a far more productive way to stop innocent people from getting shot.

Fishing Licence's, Sure we need to reduce the drain on this natural resource by introducing laws relating to catch limits and such but I don't see how me buying a licence is stopping the raping of this natural resource. Each time I go fishing no matter what location I am frustrated to see yet another group of people (mainly asian though not always)failing to through back their undersized catch. When you confront these people and explain that there are size limits and that to ensure the continued enjoyment their catch needs to be returned, your meet with hostility or the in ablity to speak our native tongue. Call the Fisheries dept. and you almost can be assured of the same response "we have limited staff and cant be everywhere at once" if this is their response to indentified breaches of the laws set to save the resorce then why introduce fee's and charges to something that has been a basic right of man since day dot.

I am slowly becoming disenchanted with a society that believes that the way to fix a problem is to legislate and raise revenue from every activity that the average person finds enjoyable.

As soon as they work out a way there will be a tax and a licence required to breath. Each year at this time our road toll is posted however I haven't ever seen in that poll an indication of just how many new drivers are on the roads each year.

Bring back the flag with the stars and stand for what is right, not what they tell us is right!!!! 8O

jason

[Ace]

Well said Jason, they are targetting the wrong people, Making honest people hand in guns is stupid, because anyone likely to hand in their guns are most probably not going to shoot anyone. But i think all the hype which has surrounded 4wds in particular has only raised this issue because the government feel the need to be seen as doing something about it. Matt

[DiscoTDI]

I think it is a great idea, its easy for me to say it though as I have a heavy rigid truck license style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
I think it is a great idea, its easy for me to say it though as I have a heavy rigid truck license style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I think its a top idea, i was going to do the training anyway, maybe now we will get those soccer mums out of 4wds, i think that has been the agenda all along, people are concerned about 4wds in the city, by introducing compulsory training those who dont need a 4wd and who have no interest in heading bush might ditch the 4wd because if the increased effort needed to own one. Matt

[4bd1]

How are they going to define a 4wd for licencing purposes.

There are plenty of passenger vehicles performance or otherwise that have a 4wd transmission.

If they do it by weight then the cutoff is going to be pretty fine, for example defenders in hardtop or traybay configuration are not far of passenger vehicle weights.

The lines get even more blurred when you compare something like a Suzuki Siera and a Subaru Imprezza.
By simple definitions like transmission type, wheel diameter, weight payload etc these cars come in pretty similar, but the dynamics are very different.

I can't imagine somebody being too happy having to get a special licence to drive their new Jaguar or Audi.


Cheers
ken

[DiscoTDI]

It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

[Yabbie]

wont stop those who like to target 4wd owners because they cant see around us or for the fact they don't want 4wd's in the city, something to do with stupid pedestrians getting killed by 4wd's with bull bars and the fact that we who drive 4wd's sit high up then most cars so impact during an accident is more fatal for those we hit.

I say " don't pullout in front of me and I won't have to hit you so hard"

[Ace]

Originally posted by 4bd1
How are they going to define a 4wd for licencing purposes.

There are plenty of passenger vehicles performance or otherwise that have a 4wd transmission.

If they do it by weight then the cutoff is going to be pretty fine, for example defenders in hardtop or traybay configuration are not far of passenger vehicle weights.

The lines get even more blurred when you compare something like a Suzuki Siera and a Subaru Imprezza.
By simple definitions like transmission type, wheel diameter, weight payload etc these cars come in pretty similar, but the dynamics are very different.

I can't imagine somebody being too happy having to get a special licence to drive their new Jaguar or Audi.


Cheers
ken

Good point Ken, how do they define a 4wd. And why single out 4wd's, sports cars are more dangerous in the hands of the inexperienced than 4wds are. Matt

[4bd1]

Common sense goes out the window when the government is in a hurry to fix some peceived problem raised by the media.

It's like the NSW idea of banning young drivers from driving particlar vehicles.
V8s for example.
Lets assume the young person is a responsible driver, ( they are not all maniacs).
What would be safer for a highway trip travelling at 100kph, an old EA Falcon or his dads near new V8 Fairlane, Statesman, Jag etc?
Total no brainer that one, but the V8 would have to stay home.

The vehicle dynamics, safety features etc don't enter into the argument.
Why?
Because it's easy to make general claims like V8s are dangerous 6 cylinders are OK. Getting hit by a 4wd is dangerous 2wds wont hurt you etc.



Cheers
Ken

[disco95]

Is it banning them from driving V8s, or is it similar to the vic laws about power to weight ratio limits. Personally I like the vic rules with the power restrictions, they need something like that here. Or maybe govern the p platers vehicles to a maximun 100kph. I know some will complain about overtaking ability on the highway etc, but wouldn't you rather your kids take longer to get there because they're stuck behind slower cars than not to get there at all :?:

Maybe the licensing laws would only consider vehicles with high and low range transfer cases to require special licenses. Tnen what about the people mover vans etc, they're just as dangerouse to pedestrians as a 4WD.

[Redback]

Disco95
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is it banning them from driving V8s, or is it similar to the vic laws about power to weight ratio limits. Personally I like the vic rules with the power restrictions, they need something like that here. Or maybe govern the p platers vehicles to a maximun 100kph. I know some will complain about overtaking ability on the highway etc, but wouldn't you rather your kids take longer to get there because they're stuck behind slower cars than not to get there at all [/b][/quote]

Must agree with Disco95 here it seems to have worked for motorcyclists.

On a special licence for 4WDs, well some sort of training at least i think if you don't already have a heavy vehicle licence of coarse, maybe off road training would be good.

Baz.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Give way to vehicle over 2T, which state has that 8O and who (if anyone) knows that road rule :?:

GVM doesn't work either, what is the GVM for something like a statesman :?:

[Redback]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>DiscoTDI wrote:
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton


Give way to vehicle over 2T, which state has that and who (if anyone) knows that road rule
[/b][/quote]

8O Don't know that rule :? in NSW you only need a heavy vehicle licence to drive vehicles with a GVM over 4.5t or buses that carry more than 8 PAYING passengers and you have to give way to buses pulling out from the kerb but only in a 60k zone where there are no lane deviding lines and with the sign desplayed that allows this on the back of the bus.

As for knowing the GVM of a vehicle should be on the compliance plate.

Baz.

[VladTepes]

Umm Jason the flag DOES have stars on it... but I know what you mean.

Personally I think this is all noise to be seen to be doing something until it blows over when the next 'big issue' raises its head.

The government has been able to target minorities with relative ease - read gun owners, motorcyclists, and so on BUT the thing that pollies are frightened of is VOTER BACKLASH.

There are simply so many 4wd owners - many of whom are the shopping trolley set - whp would not tolerate such a change.

Just think of the consequences:

Sudden GLUT of 4wd's that can only be sold to those who want the licences, and therefore much lower 2nd hand prices. Good for the buyers, perhaps, but not for the bulk of people who would be tryiong to sell.

Massive reduction in business in aftermarket 4wd stuff and consequent job losses. Also job losses in car dealerships, manufacturers etc etc etc.


No I don't think it will happen.



Of course, I was wrong once before.

[disco95]

I saw that episode vlad, you weren't wrong, you were mistaken. :wink:

[Yabbie]

I thought I was wrong once but I wasn't!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

I also subscribe to the I may never be right, but I'm never wrong club!!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Ace]

I think 4wd training should be compulsory, i dont really agree with the whole separate licence thing. I think 4wd training will minimise the amount of inexperieced driver getting stuck in stupid avoidable situations because they dont know how to operate thier vehicle fully. Sure not everyone will use the 4wd off road, but that is their loss, i think driver training will eliminate some of the stupid behaviour on the road as well. Matt

[DiscoTDI]

Phoenix, Qld road rules (last time I read) state that you have to give way to vehicles 2 ton and over.


What is everyones problem with getting a 4wd license, It would not be that bad unless you cant drive style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Rovernaut]

HMMM style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Might get rid of the Soccer mums and Corporate Show offs! Who never go off road and only own one as a pose

[Yabbie]

I think the young driver issue would be solved by not letting parents (who have their on bad habits) teach their children to drive I honestly believe that until we stop teaching young people bad habits the roads won't be a safer place. However in saying that that little voice in the back of your head that loves adrenalin will kick in when ever you allow it or want to impress your mates.

All I ever hear about 4wd's is:

"you cant see around them" Sure but why do you need to see around them,and if you weren't so far up my arse maybe you could!! I can't see around Semi trailers either so lets get them of the roads and they cause how many fatalities per year on the road?

"They shouldn't have bull bars in the cities" How else do you stop your car from being damaged by mindless pedestrains who wish to walk infront of you because there world is more important then yours.

"there a menace on the roads" So is every friggin driver in a hurry to get in front of me so they can get to where they are going 5 seconds earlier.

My tip Remove brain from glove box and learn to drive without ****'n me off!! :twisted:

[disco95]

I totally agree with you Jason. As far as needing a special license to drive a 4wd, well I don't so much have a problem with needing the license, it's more the point of being victimised by the pedestrian council when there arew far more dangerous vehicles on the road that you can drive with an ordinary vehicle license.

[Ace]

[size=24]<span style="color:red">BAN STUPID PEDESTRIANS NOT BULL BARS </span>

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
What is everyones problem with getting a 4wd license, It would not be that bad unless you cant drive style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Oh, an opportunity for a reasoned argument.... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

The requirement to get a special licence, in itself, is not an issue for me.

The problem is that the goverment would require the applicant to attend certain "approved" courses (at your expense of course), be tested for proficiency by some arsehole from the transport department (also at your expense) who might decide that the best way of ensuring people are proficient is to fail them all first time out.

Don't laugh - that;s what the tester told me hen I went for my bike licence first time out. "Yeah that was OK but it wasn't raining or anything so I don't know if you could handle all conditions. You'll have to do it again anoither day". :roll: The second test was the only time I've been out on a bike and worried that it might be fine... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Anyway, then once 4wd proficieny is "achieved" would the goverment just add it as another endorsement onto the existing licence, or would they use the opportunity to charge a seperate additional fee each time your licence was due for renewal.

So really, it's the fact that it would be a great excuse to screw us out of a lot of perfectly good money that gets to me.

[medic455]

First question, How is a 4x4 licence going to get around the "I cant see round them", "I dont like bullbars" and all the other brain dead complaints that we hear.????? 8O :roll:
Secondly, What are you going to test on..???(the off road part of things is not the issue, is it..?) The big problem as I see it is that alot of people who buy a 4x4 are too stupid to realise that it is not a car and therefore continue to drive their 4x4 as they did thier car :? :? :roll: :roll: the end result quite often is a crash(not an accident) where apon everybody wants to blame the vehicle, the road, the weather or what ever rather than accecpt that their own stupidity is the main factor.. :twisted: :twisted:
All the saftey issues can be applied equally to people movers, vans and light trucks.
Maybe the answer is education rather than legislation, teach young drivers about the physics of driving as well as the rules and test this knowlage at the same time as they are tested on the rules, and maybe the motor industry and it's dealer's (both new and second hand) should play a part in educating the buyer.

All I know is that I don't want the control freaks who would have us all driving beige, 980cc, 4 door sedans telling me how to live my life

(steps down from soap box, feeling a whole lot better having got that off my chest.. :wink: )

[medic455]

Maybe it is also time for the 4x4 world to go on the attack rather than trying to defend ourself all the time..... start champaning for tougher rules and policing of pedestrians.. :twisted:

More policing of car driver's...and the banning of tiny little car's that are hard to see (and easy to run over 8O :roll: ) the banning of small cars from the open road (too small, too easy to damage).......... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif :wink:

[incisor]

you got it in one big fella!

[rmp]

I have no problem with a driving test for 4WDs, with the following provisos:

1. It is a real test of skills and knowledge, not some basic money-grabbing exercise that you only need to hand over $ to get. It should include:
- knowledge of 4WD systems
- maneourving
- basic offroad test
- on-road handling

2. A similar test is created for other vehicles, for example a trailer license.

I think the govt should dramatically increase the number and type of licenses with associated tranining, and use the revenue stream to abolish the road tax.

The current "driver training" is inadequate.

[Ace]

I agree with vlad (did i just type that), if all this serves as is a money grabbing excercise by the RTA and its equivalents, then they can shove their licence.

However i have good news. From what i can gather from the club meating on monday, the way things will work- until we can get more info- is as such. Clubs will need designated trainers, whol will have to undergo teating to determine if they are competent at delivering such training courses. Once they have been deemed competent at a training level and have passed all the courses they can then take the other members through the course the government has created. You will have to pay the course cost, only if you arent a member of a registered club. Once you have complteted the course and received the paper work, i am assuming you go to the RTA etc and hand over the paperwork (proof of completeing the course) and they give you another licence.

What is unclear is how you will get the up graded licence and how long you have to actually do the course, as it would be unreasonable to be expected to do it straight away. What i have said above is only info from our 4wd council rep, he was unclear and is looking into it further, the authorities involved are being very tight lipped until it is passed. Matt

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pedro_The_Swift)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:[/b][/quote]

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/b][/quote]

I ask the question disco, did you ever have one in the first place, and do you really know how to drive or do you just pretend. Matt

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/b][/quote]

I ask the question disco, did you ever have one in the first place, and do you really know how to drive or do you just pretend. Matt[/b][/quote]

well someone said I can drive 22 ton trucks, maybe it was my mum 8O

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by DiscoTDI
<!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

I ask the question disco, did you ever have one in the first place, and do you really know how to drive or do you just pretend. Matt[/b][/quote]

well someone said I can drive 22 ton trucks, maybe it was my mum 8O
[/b][/quote]

Or could it have been Kellogs? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Ace

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
<!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

I ask the question disco, did you ever have one in the first place, and do you really know how to drive or do you just pretend. Matt

well someone said I can drive 22 ton trucks, maybe it was my mum 8O
[/b][/quote]

Or could it have been Kellogs? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt[/b][/quote]

thats a good one then :wink:

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by DiscoTDI

Originally posted by Ace

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
<!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoTDI
It will come down to GVM of the vehicle, not many people know that you have to give way to vehicles over 2 ton

Please show us this in writing,,

not that we dont believe you,,,,, :wink:

I cant find the driver manual from when I learnt style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

I ask the question disco, did you ever have one in the first place, and do you really know how to drive or do you just pretend. Matt

well someone said I can drive 22 ton trucks, maybe it was my mum 8O


Or could it have been Kellogs? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt[/b][/quote]

thats a good one then :wink:[/b][/quote]


Yeah, the best licence money can buy, most sydney siders have em. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt

[DiscoTDI]

most of australia has them 8O

[Dinty]

I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI
most of australia has them 8O

Good point. I heard somewhere that there was the maniac in a Land Rover roming free on frazer island a coupla weeks ago. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by Dinty
I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em


stick it to em O land rover god style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dinty
I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em


stick it to em O land rover god style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]

We're not worthy. We're not Worthy. We're not worthy. 8) Matt

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by Dinty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dinty)</div><div class='quotemain'>I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em[/b]

Yeah I'd echo those sentiments.


<!--QuoteBegin-Dinty
I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em[/quote]

Yeah I'd echo those sentiments.


See :?: :!: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Ace]

Originally posted by VladTepes+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VladTepes)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Dinty@
I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em

Yeah I'd echo those sentiments.


<!--QuoteBegin-Dinty
I ask you how many rice burners and dunnydores have you seen when you were off road, Bloody NONE I hope, the real problem is when are most Aussies gonna wake up before the govt tells you it's bloody time to get up(s**t, shave, shower, sandwich, etc) tell em to stick it up their collective clackers we are the most over regulated over governed country in the world, the likes of H. Scruby ( Ban 4x4 bullbars etc NSW) tell em to P off and others like em and for all the truck drivers (4x4 owners) out there that think they may be immune from all this remeber what happened to all the shooters and all the pistol shooters (across Oz) thought they were going to be imune from what happened in Tassie (I was a pistol shooter as well) personally I think it's a real load of S**T in NSW Carr and his mates should remember that they are there to serve us not them ride rough shod over us anyway trouble is the next election is too far away for some people to remember S**t happens you voted for em

Yeah I'd echo those sentiments.


See :?: :!: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]


I'd get that checked out vlad, it could be serious. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt

[VladTepes]

Pedro asked in another thread so I'll bury the answer here for him to find....

The question was: Pictures ?

The answer is:

Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon V
http://www.beretta.com/dati/ImmaginiProdottiBeretta/1/36_elenco.jpg

Detail of the case hardened action, engraving and inlay.
http://www.beretta.com/dati/ContentManager/images/Dettagli%20Fucili/_687SilverPigeonV_dett2.jpg

The stock is like this one, except I got the matt (oil) finish stock rather than this 'estapol' looking one.
http://www.beretta.com/dati/ContentManager/images/Dettagli%20Fucili/687SilverPigeonV_dett1.jpg

Now I just have to wait for the paperwork to come back from QPOL.....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I cant see any of those imgs

I gather its like this??
sort of???

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album04/J6871G8_SilverPigeonV_s_maxi.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its a very "Pretty" gun Vlad,,,

I always thought you were a function over form type of guy Vlad,,,

tell us its redeeming qualities,,,,

:wink:

[VladTepes]

Umm this was supposed to end up in the shooting thread. Buggered if I know how we ended up here.

Whaddayamean you can;t see any of those images ?

Yes, it looks exactly like that.

Form AND function. Its a Beretta style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift


tell us its redeeming qualities,,,,



come on Vlad,, why the Berreta :?:

[DiscoTDI]

yes vlad please explain :mrgreen:

[VladTepes]

It's purtee :wink: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Ace]

It is a nice weapon vlad. How much if you dont mind me asking? Matt

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by Ace
It is a nice weapon vlad. How much if you dont mind me asking? Matt

he might!!!

I saw a price on the site I got the image off,,

could've gone out and bought a nice series with it,,,,

[VladTepes]

Yeah I could have. But she wouldn't let me.
That'll learn her. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Lucky I snuck in just before our latest car troubles - see other thread "I hate cars"

Do I mind you asking :?:
Not at all. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[DiscoTDI]

money burn holes in your pocket too Vlad :wink:

[VladTepes]

Yep even the money the bank gives me - i.e. the money I don;t actually have. 8O

[Ace]

Is that way of telling me you mind answering it? Matt

[VladTepes]

Have a guess.

Hint: More than a maxi-drive. 8O

[DiscoTDI]

Ouch 8O

[Ace]

Originally posted by VladTepes
Have a guess.

Hint: More than a maxi-drive. 8O

Ok in dont mind playing the price is right, it works wonders for my post count. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

I dont know how much a maxi drive is, i know they arent cheap.

My guess Larry- $2200. Matt

[hiline]

larry $1600 :?: :?:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

$3500



or there abouts,,,,,, :wink:

[hiline]

surely you wouldnt pay that much for a gun 8O 8O

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by hiline
surely you wouldnt pay that much for a gun 8O 8O

Surely I would. 8O

Didn't you see how nice it looks style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif and it's a Beretta. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Pedro is slightly high, buts what's $50 between friends...






Having said that, we are all friends here, please each send me $50 8)

[hiline]

holy **** 8O 8O

lucky im not into guns style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

coz i think the wife would shoot me :evil: :evil:


vald does look nice :wink: :wink:

[VladTepes]

Good shotguns tend to be expensive but GOOD ones generally mainatin a fairly good resale value if cared for properly.

Ex-Militray rifles, hwoever, are much cheaper because they are totally under-rated by people. My mate's 7mm Mauser is as accurate as all heck (Kind of handy for shooting Poms and Aussies in Praetoria) and opnly cost him $250.00. An absolute bargain compared to a new $1200 sporting rifle.....

[noddy]

Vlad -- it is a good thing you are not into photography otherwise there would be serious trouble!

What is the autmotive equivalent of a Baretta shotgun?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(Kind of handy for shooting Poms and Aussies in Praetoria)[/b][/quote]

You wouldn't be Suid Afrikan by an chance :?

[Ace]

My new Ruger .223, including a scope and bag cost me $1350 and i thought that was enough, mind you if i wanted a winchester i could have easily forked out $2000. Matt

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift
$3500



or there abouts,,,,,, :wink:

you could buy a lot of air conditioning for that 8O

[Ace]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift
$3500



or there abouts,,,,,, :wink:

you could buy a lot of air conditioning for that 8O[/b][/quote]

Shoot holes in the doors. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif matt

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by VladTepes
Good shotguns tend to be expensive but GOOD ones generally mainatin a fairly good resale value if cared for properly.

Ex-Militray rifles, hwoever, are much cheaper because they are totally under-rated by people. My mate's 7mm Mauser is as accurate as all heck (Kind of handy for shooting Poms and Aussies in Praetoria) and opnly cost him $250.00. An absolute bargain compared to a new $1200 sporting rifle.....

sure its not because,
theres probably no rifleing left,,
there were 3.5 million of them made,,
its covered with blood,,
and has a stock covered in little kangaroos with a line through them,,



:?:

[p38arover]

Originally posted by Noddy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(Kind of handy for shooting Poms and Aussies in Praetoria)

You wouldn't be Suid Afrikan by an chance :?[/b][/quote]

Weren't the Praetorians the bodyguards of Caesar in ancient Rome?

Pretoria is a different place. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Ron

[Ace]

A historian aswell ron, you never cease to amaze me. :wink: Matt

[VladTepes]

My answers in bold...


Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift
sure its not because,
theres probably no rifleing left,, There is.
there were 3.5 million of them made,, There were.
its covered with blood,, It isn't.
and has a stock covered in little kangaroos with a line through them,, It hasn't :?:

I had a look in the barrel of the shotgun, though, and some bastard has stolen the rifleing... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by Noddy
Vlad -- it is a good thing you are not into photography otherwise there would be serious trouble!

What is the autmotive equivalent of a Baretta shotgun?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(Kind of handy for shooting Poms and Aussies in Praetoria)

You wouldn't be Suid Afrikan by an chance :?[/b][/quote]

Suid Efrican :?: No.

It's a Beretta. And the anwer is "Ferrari" or something like that anyway.

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift
$3500


you could buy a lot of air conditioning for that 8O[/b][/quote]

Yeah, but a Beretta is cooler :!: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Ace]

Originally posted by VladTepes+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VladTepes)</div><div class='quotemain'>My answers in bold...

<!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift
sure its not because,
theres probably no rifleing left,, There is.
there were 3.5 million of them made,, There were.
its covered with blood,, It isn't.
and has a stock covered in little kangaroos with a line through them,, It hasn't :?:

I had a look in the barrel of the shotgun, though, and some bastard has stolen the rifleing... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/b][/quote]

Not good vlad, better hire a PI to find it. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Matt