DEF

[olbod]

Apparantley its a new injected thingy for diesels. Seperate tank and so on.
Mandatory already in the USA.
Ron Moon has a page in the latest 4x4 Australia mag.
He states that it is coming here and has a lot of drawbacks and he questions whether diesels are the way to keep going as tourers.
He is beginning to think petrol maybe a better option.
Anyone know anything about it ?

[Mick_Marsh]

Are you talking about AdBlue?
Diesel exhaust fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid)

It's already here.
http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/SpecialtyProducts/Pages/AdBlue.aspx
AdBlue® now available at the pump - Australia (http://www.shell.com.au/products-services/on-the-road/fuels/adblue.html)
AdBlue | Products & services | Australia (http://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/products-services/fuels/adblue.html)

[olbod]

Yes, add blue.
According to Ron it is mandatory over there with a seperate 20 litre tank.
Its not just an additive that you add from a bottle when you remember to buy it.
There is software stuff on the market to enable you to bypass it but you face a 100,000 buck fine or jail if caught with it.
That indicates that there is a problem.
He goes into some detail about its drawbacks but I wont try to put it here.

[PhilipA]

There were bottles of Adblue for sale at many of the Roadhouses I stopped at on the Stuart Highway about 6 weeks ago.
Ron Moon seems to be behind the times on this one.

Regards Philip A

[V8Ian]

SCR has been in use on heavy vehicles for a number of years (since 2006/7?) with no major issues. The biggest hassle seemed to be availability when the system was new, but this has overcome with virtually every fast-flow equipped diesel outlet selling ad-blue. Ad-blue can be purchased in containers from five to one thousand litres and increasingly, bowser delivered.

I believe that SCR is a better solution than EGR but neither will be required retrospectively.

With Volvo SCR motors if the ad-blue is allowed to run out the truck will derate at the next switch off, presumably all manufactures have a similar system.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Volvo's derate themselves for all sorts or reasons Ian:angel:
but yes, hi-flow pumps at most truck stops nowadays.
Not sure why its considered a problem though, you want a Euro 5 spec truck you will learn to live with buying urea.;)

[olbod]

Read this below.
It is rather worrying.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Only if you buy a new diesel after 2017 Robert,, and even then LR may just make it a NA package.

[olbod]

PS: Buy the mag. September.
It has some interesting stuff including a comparo involving a new Discovery.
Also a couple of interesting pieces about the FJ Cruiser.
Ugly ****s of things but I dont know , it got me thinking.
Nice engine and auto box, cruise control, 5 seats, 17 inch wheels, traction control, locking rear diff, good ground clearance, 159 litre fuel tank with probably better economy than Me Disco and the P38 and now lots of after market accesseries.
Supposed to be pretty capable off road.
It might make a good tourer as well as a daily ?

[pop058]

PS: Buy the mag. September.
It has some interesting stuff including a comparo involving a new Discovery.
Also a couple of interesting pieces about the FJ Cruiser.
Ugly ****s of things but I dont know , it got me thinking.
Nice engine and auto box, cruise control, 5 seats, 17 inch wheels, traction control, locking rear diff, good ground clearance, 159 litre fuel tank with probably better economy than Me Disco and the P38 and now lots of after market accesseries.
Supposed to be pretty capable off road.
It might make a good tourer as well as a daily ?

Isn't the FJC just a Short Wheel Base Prado with baggy pants, gold chains and it's hat on backwards :p

[Redback]

Isn't the FJC just a Short Wheel Base Prado with baggy pants, gold chains and it's hat on backwards :p

Yes;)

[olbod]

Isn't the FJC just a Short Wheel Base Prado with baggy pants, gold chains and it's hat on backwards :p

Probably all of those things Mate.
But if you read the articles there maybe more to it.
Worth investigating I think.
I would like to drive one anyway just to see for myself.
Its supposed to be uncomplicated but capable.
I hate all this new fangled electronics and bling.
I forgot to mention in the first instance that there is plenty of room under the bonnett for a second battery.
Its not a Landy and ugly as crap but on paper it seems to tick a few boxes.
I wonder.
I think I will start perusing the Forums for a start, usually they are pretty informative.
Oh and according to the test results, with the 159 litre tank it has a range of 969 km.

[V8Ian]

Volvo's derate themselves for all sorts or reasons Ian:angel:
;)
Any modern computer controlled truck (and I assume car) motor can de-rate/engage limp mode for a variety of reasons, usually self preservation.

[V8Ian]

Read this below.
It is rather worrying.
What a load of uninformed diatribe that article is Robert.
Running out of ad-blue half way along the CSR is simply down to 3XP, akin to running out of tucker, water or fuel.

[PhilipA]

I am pretty familiar with Fjs as My boss was completely smitten with his and ran a site called FJ Club, which infuriated the FJ Cruiser club.
First the battery
Well yes you can put a second battery, but it can only be a tiddler. My boss's SWMBO was complaining to me that their fridge was going off in 4 hours and I had a look. he had fitted a tiny 38AH Optima in the second position and that is about all you can fit. He also believed the hype and had it through a 20Amp Ctek charger which probably made it worse.

You can fit a big battery in the starting position if you switch functions of the battery by rewiring, as with a D2 really.LOL
Not the thing to do under warranty.

Only the 13 ? model year onwards has the big tank, and only AFAIR 011 onwards has the ability to run traction control AND lock the rear diff.
So be careful if buying a used one

I got bogged on Blacksmiths beach when we were making a video, because they don't have all that good ground clearance under the belly. The first time I have been bogged in 30 years.

The geometry of the rear suspension is suspect because if you try to accelerate hard on sand the whole rear axle goes into mighty axle tramp locked or not.

At the end of driving it quite a lot in all types of terrain , I was left sort of lukewarm and preferring the D2 or in fact a Jeep Wrangler .

Some of the other things I disliked were the really high dash and lack of the high Land Rover Driving position. The rear door opens the wrong way. They are quite small inside as you would expect from being a short wheelbase Prado.
If you want a simpler tourer the Wrangler Unlimited Diesel IMHO is a far superior proposition.
Regards Philip A

[olbod]

What a load of uninformed diatribe that article is Robert.
Running out of ad-blue half way along the CSR is simply down to 3XP, akin to running out of tucker, water or fuel.

Rons words not mine.
I am just passing on what I found in the mag.
I know nothing about DEF's and add blue and I will never own anything that might have it.

[olbod]

I am pretty familiar with Fjs as My boss was completely smitten with his and ran a site called FJ Club, which infuriated the FJ Cruiser club.
First the battery
Well yes you can put a second battery, but it can only be a tiddler. My boss's SWMBO was complaining to me that their fridge was going off in 4 hours and I had a look. he had fitted a tiny 38AH Optima in the second position and that is about all you can fit. He also believed the hype and had it through a 20Amp Ctek charger which probably made it worse.

You can fit a big battery in the starting position if you switch functions of the battery by rewiring, as with a D2 really.LOL
Not the thing to do under warranty.

Only the 13 ? model year onwards has the big tank, and only AFAIR 011 onwards has the ability to run traction control AND lock the rear diff.
So be careful if buying a used one

I got bogged on Blacksmiths beach when we were making a video, because they don't have all that good ground clearance under the belly. The first time I have been bogged in 30 years.

The geometry of the rear suspension is suspect because if you try to accelerate hard on sand the whole rear axle goes into mighty axle tramp locked or not.

At the end of driving it quite a lot in all types of terrain , I was left sort of lukewarm and preferring the D2 or in fact a Jeep Wrangler .

Some of the other things I disliked were the really high dash and lack of the high Land Rover Driving position. The rear door opens the wrong way. They are quite small inside as you would expect from being a short wheelbase Prado.
If you want a simpler tourer the Wrangler Unlimited Diesel IMHO is a far superior proposition.
Regards Philip A

Thanks Phillip, interesting stuff.
Thats what Forums are for.
Just thinkin really.
I was tossing around the idea of getting a D3 but what I think is in the works is a top hatted 4.6 in front of an auto box into Me Disco with a long range tank thrown in.
I have already got heaps of stuff in Me Shed waiting to be installed including an AP60 cruise control of all things. Ta Da.
What I have yet to get is new Ashcroft goodies for front and back.
I love Me Disco, its simple, no fancy electronics to bugger up, easy to work on and repair and reliable.

[V8Ian]

Rons words not mine.
I am just passing on what I found in the mag.
I know nothing about DEF's and add blue and I will never own anything that might have it.
I was deriding the article, not you Robert. :)

[olbod]

I was deriding the article, not you Robert. :)

Yes I know, No sweat.

I thought there was more to the article tho than just running out of the stuff.Like having to carry spare sensors and stuff for instance.
Ron has travelled in some pretty remote places around the world so with his experience of real conditions, if he is worried and has reservations about this stuff that is coming, then I would to.
It might not be a problem for us here that only go on trips maybe a couple of times a year and in convoy but as I said I know nothing about it.
Time will tell.

[V8Ian]

I think Ron has little understanding of SGR Robert, and is making a mountain out of a molehill. Any diesel engine designed and built in the past ten years will not run properly on the old high sulphur fuel. I think Low Sulphur diesel is now the world standard. Trucks have been using ad-blue for quite a few trouble free years.

[Mick_Marsh]

I think DEF (AdBlue) is used to reduce NOx emissions. Low sulphur fuels are becoming the norm. A few years ago I worked on the design of a sulphur reduction facility at an Australian refinery. It is now in operation. I think all the major refineries are now producing low sulphur fuels.

[V8Ian]

I think DEF (AdBlue) is used to reduce NOx emissions. Low sulphur fuels are becoming the norm. A few years ago I worked on the design of a sulphur reduction facility at an Australian refinery. It is now in operation. I think all the major refineries are now producing low sulphur fuels.
Presumably you mean world wide Mick?
Bulwer? I was on that job.

[kowari]

I recently saw a D3 in the repair shop when I went to collect my defender, the owner had filled (or partially) with adblu at a bowser, and then drove away.....for a short distance. $ 14,000 dollars damage I think.

[Ausfree]

I recently saw a D3 in the repair shop when I went to collect my defender, the owner had filled (or partially) with adblu at a bowser, and then drove away.....for a short distance. $ 14,000 dollars damage I think.
A new driver at one of our bus depots accidently filled Adblue in the wrong hole and did $30,000 damage to a Volvo bus motor. I didn't hear what happened to him, but I would say he is not popular with his employers.:(

[isuzurover]

Whomever wrote that article is clearly an idiot.

Adblue/scr has been around for years as mentioned. If you run out of adblue the engine still runs. Just as many people are turning off egr I am sure many people will start turning off scr when it becomes more widespread in passenger vehicles.

[pop058]

Probably all of those things Mate.
But if you read the articles there maybe more to it.
Worth investigating I think.
I would like to drive one anyway just to see for myself.
Its supposed to be uncomplicated but capable.
I hate all this new fangled electronics and bling.
I forgot to mention in the first instance that there is plenty of room under the bonnett for a second battery.
Its not a Landy and ugly as crap but on paper it seems to tick a few boxes.
I wonder.
I think I will start perusing the Forums for a start, usually they are pretty informative.
Oh and according to the test results, with the 159 litre tank it has a range of 969 km.


I am pretty familiar with Fjs as My boss was completely smitten with his and ran a site called FJ Club, which infuriated the FJ Cruiser club.
First the battery
Well yes you can put a second battery, but it can only be a tiddler. My boss's SWMBO was complaining to me that their fridge was going off in 4 hours and I had a look. he had fitted a tiny 38AH Optima in the second position and that is about all you can fit. He also believed the hype and had it through a 20Amp Ctek charger which probably made it worse.

You can fit a big battery in the starting position if you switch functions of the battery by rewiring, as with a D2 really.LOL
Not the thing to do under warranty.

Only the 13 ? model year onwards has the big tank, and only AFAIR 011 onwards has the ability to run traction control AND lock the rear diff.
So be careful if buying a used one

I got bogged on Blacksmiths beach when we were making a video, because they don't have all that good ground clearance under the belly. The first time I have been bogged in 30 years.

The geometry of the rear suspension is suspect because if you try to accelerate hard on sand the whole rear axle goes into mighty axle tramp locked or not.

At the end of driving it quite a lot in all types of terrain , I was left sort of lukewarm and preferring the D2 or in fact a Jeep Wrangler .

Some of the other things I disliked were the really high dash and lack of the high Land Rover Driving position. The rear door opens the wrong way. They are quite small inside as you would expect from being a short wheelbase Prado.
If you want a simpler tourer the Wrangler Unlimited Diesel IMHO is a far superior proposition.
Regards Philip A

Better get in soon if you want an FJC

The Toyota FJ Cruiser Will Die Next Year (http://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-fj-cruiser-will-die-next-year-1459367645)