Which D4 winch bar rated for 12000 lb winch

[johonda55]

I am replacing my LR OEM front bull bar with a winch capable bar and want to match with a 12000 lb winch as I will be towing a large van. As I can find out neither the ARB or OL steel bars for D4 are rated for a 12000 lb winch. I think both are tested to 9500 lb. I know many have fitted the larger winches. I am just trying to confirm if anyone can confirm the ratings for the bars or if there have been any engineering issues as a result of the larger winch. I understand the ECB uses a cradle to mount the winch to the chassis so it appears to be OK for the larger winch.

[Redback]

ARB and OL winch bars are rated to a 12,000lb winch, lots of people have 12,000lb winches with their ARB and OL winch bars, TJM also.

Baz.

[winaje]

Is there a list of the winches that will fit, that you know of Barry?

I'd love one of the Warn Zeon 12000 (https://www.warn.com/truck/winches/ZEON_12.shtml) with synthetic rope, fitted to my OL D4 bar on my D3.

[johonda55]

I agree that a number of the ARB and OL bars are rated to 12000 lb, but it depends on the vehicle. The stockists are telling me in the case of the D4 the bar has only been tested and therefore rated to 9500 lb. Same bar same design may be higher rated in a LC76 for example because of the way it is fitted to the vehicle, airbags etc. Agree many D4 have them fitted, so physically I know you can. Happy to find out that what I have heard is wrong. Just didn't want a worse case scenario where I damage the car, bar or myself because I exceed the engineering of the system. In case it comes up I can and do use pulleys so the chances of being at max load are remote, but you never know.

By the by I am looking to fit a Kingone Tds 12000 winch.

[Redback]

Is there a list of the winches that will fit, that you know of Barry?

I'd love one of the Warn Zeon 12000 (https://www.warn.com/truck/winches/ZEON_12.shtml) with synthetic rope, fitted to my OL D4 bar on my D3.

I don't know about that winch Will, but as far as I know, Warn, Premier and other Warn derivatives, Superwinch, VRS, OX(TJM) Runva, ALDI, all have the same bolt pattern to fit ARB, OL and TJM bars.

I've never heard of a limit for bullbars and winch sizes, I have heard they recommend a size for vehicles, but I assumed that this is what would be fine for the vehicle and probably the minumum you need.

Baz.

[winaje]

Thanks Baz, I'm more concerned with the physical dimensions, particularly overall width and the ability to fit the winch in the mounts horizontally. When I fit the bar I'll measure the winch mount and go from there

[Tombie]

Thanks Baz, I'm more concerned with the physical dimensions, particularly overall width and the ability to fit the winch in the mounts horizontally. When I fit the bar I'll measure the winch mount and go from there

No chance of that Zeon fitting I'm afraid...

[winaje]

What dimension stops it?

[Redback]

What dimension stops it?

I'd say height Will, looks a bit tall in the middle, looks like it's designed for an open craddle or Xrox style of bar.

Baz.

[winaje]

OK, thanks all. So is there a particular model of 12000lb winch that is known to fit an OL bar for sure? That way I can compare dimensions...

[Redback]

OK, thanks all. So is there a particular model of 12000lb winch that is known to fit an OL bar for sure? That way I can compare dimensions...

Runva and VRS 12,000lb winches fit the OL bar, they(OL) sell these winches, I have the 9500lb VRS with Dyneema rope on our OL bar, been excellent so far, used often;)

Baz.

[winaje]

Runva and VRS 12,000lb winches fit the OL bar, they(OL) sell these winches, I have the 9500lb VRS with Dyneema rope on our OL bar, been excellent so far, used often;)

Baz.

Thanks Baz, reading an interesting thread on another Aussie forum regarding warranties and water immersion. I'll have a close look at the Runva, based on that...

[johonda55]

Thanks for the comments. I spoke with Gordon from OL Sth Syd and he has confirmed the OL bar is rated to 9500kg. I think the issue lies with how the bars are fitted to a d4 as opposed to other vehicles. The strength of the fitting points. It's the same for ARB. I was to fit a 12000 mako tds but have shied away given the rating of the bar. I would expect many have the larger winches fitted without any detriment to their vehicle, but there remains the potential for vehicle damage if the winch is used at its limits. The ECB alloy remains an option as it uses a cradle to fit the bar to the vehicle rather than the winch.

[johonda55]

Just to follow up I was quoted to fit a mako/kingone tds 12000 to a OL bar so I assume that fits. Dimensions are 612L x 165W x 191 H. For comparison:

Runva 12000 - 579 x 160x 229
TJM - 556 x 160 x 202
VRS - 552 x 168 x 214

The following is also an interest in read in regards to which warranties.
WINCH WARRANTY'S,who to support and when to walk - 4x4 Earth (http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/general-4x4-discussion/25959-winch-warrantys-who-support-when-walk.html)

[Redback]

Thanks for the comments. I spoke with Gordon from OL Sth Syd and he has confirmed the OL bar is rated to 9500kg. I think the issue lies with how the bars are fitted to a d4 as opposed to other vehicles. The strength of the fitting points. It's the same for ARB. I was to fit a 12000 mako tds but have shied away given the rating of the bar. I would expect many have the larger winches fitted without any detriment to their vehicle, but there remains the potential for vehicle damage if the winch is used at its limits. The ECB alloy remains an option as it uses a cradle to fit the bar to the vehicle rather than the winch.

This is where this is confusing too me, there is no more force applied to a bullbar attached to a D4 weighing 3 tonne being winched by a 12,000lb winch than a 9500lb winch, they are both pulling 3 tonne, only difference is the 12,000lb winch will do it easier or am I wrong??

Someone might want to explain this theory to me:confused:

Baz.

[Owen]

Baz, the capability of the winch may be 9500 lbs or 12,000 lbs but the big test comes when you are stuck in something deep and sticky. 9500 lbs of force might not move you, not even double or triple that when using pulley blocks.

I had a 12,000 lb Mega Winch on my SWB '72 patrol. Its basically a V8 on a rusted out body, weighs SFA. It went down at my parents farm a couple of years back, breaking through the top surface into the liquified granitic mush below. that took a triple line pull on the 12,000 lb winch to get out......so never underestimate the extra load placed on the car when bogged in soup.

If I was in the same situation today with the D4, I think that winch would rip the entire front off the car.......airbag jacks and bog mats a little more suitable for my shiny pretty toy now...no more skull dragging through the mud for me !

[Tombie]

Well airbag jacks aren't really suitable :)
Not a lot of solid spaces under there :D

[Redback]

OK understand now, never thought of that situation, I don't do mud anymore either and especially in our D4, a lot of weight to drag out if you get bogged.

Thanks,

Baz.

[Tombie]

OK understand now, never thought of that situation, I don't do mud anymore either and especially in our D4, a lot of weight to drag out if you get bogged.

Thanks,

Baz.


Perhaps a diet Baz :D

Oh, the Disco...

[johonda55]

Agree Owens comments, I have had a similar situation in mud up on the cape with my defender. It took a 12000lb winch a couple of pulleys and lots of sweat to move as the suction force of the mud was incredible. For me the choice of a larger winch for the d4 is driven by the fact I intend to tow a trailer. If I wasn't towing offroad I would stick to the 9500 winch. I think the conventional wisdom is that the winch capacity should be 1.5 times the vehicle GVM. So for a loaded d4 at around 3000kg that's 4500kg or 9920lbs. Add a trailer of say 1t (avg loaded camper) and the GVM goes up to 4000kg. Using the rule that requires a winch rated to 13227lbs. Of course there are lots of other dynamics involved, gradient, ground surface, other aids like pulleys etc but for mine if your towing consideration should be given to the larger winch.

[Redback]

Agree Owens comments, I have had a similar situation in mud up on the cape with my defender. It took a 12000lb winch a couple of pulleys and lots of sweat to move as the suction force of the mud was incredible. For me the choice of a larger winch for the d4 is driven by the fact I intend to tow a trailer. If I wasn't towing offroad I would stick to the 9500 winch. I think the conventional wisdom is that the winch capacity should be 1.5 times the vehicle GVM. So for a loaded d4 at around 3000kg that's 4500kg or 9920lbs. Add a trailer of say 1t (avg loaded camper) and the GVM goes up to 4000kg. Using the rule that requires a winch rated to 13227lbs. Of course there are lots of other dynamics involved, gradient, ground surface, other aids like pulleys etc but for mine if your towing consideration should be given to the larger winch.

I tow a 1.5t camper also, already winched myself up Cassilas Track and Davies Plain Tr in the Vic High Country with the camper on, both steep, but using the car power to help.

I figure as long as you have assistance from the vehicle, it should be fine with the 9500lb winch, shock load is what you need to look out for and reduce as much as you can.

Baz.