Team Australia - this is who we are

[DiscoMick]

Team Australia: the reality of the figures - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-21/green-team-australia-the-reality-of-the-figures/5685550)


I thought this was an interesting little compilation of facts about the real Australia today.
The bits about poor literacy and the prevalence of mental and developmental health problems were particularly concerning, I thought.

[Chucaro]

I am an old bugger so I am not welcome in the team :(

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/566.jpg

[bob10]

Team Australia: the reality of the figures - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-21/green-team-australia-the-reality-of-the-figures/5685550)


I thought this was an interesting little compilation of facts about the real Australia today.
The bits about poor literacy and the prevalence of mental and developmental health problems were particularly concerning, I thought.


Well, perhaps we should not take everything on face value, Bob


“How to Lie with Statistics” | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-fair-society/201111/how-lie-statistics)

[JamesB71]

I wonder what 24% of the population are the ones who would prefer a non-democratic government?

[Chucaro]

I wonder what 24% of the population are the ones who would prefer a non-democratic government?

I just wonder how many of them know what it is living under that conditions.

[vnx205]

Well, perhaps we should not take everything on face value, Bob


It would be equally unwise to dismiss all statistical information as misleading. Rejecting all statistics is no more sensible than just accepting all statistics at face value. (I do realise that is not what you are doing.)

Are there any particular ones in that article that you suspect may have been massaged or presented so that they give a misleading impression?

[vnx205]

I just wonder how many of them know what it is living under that conditions.

Probably none of them have thought about Winston Churchill's comment that, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” :p

[Chucaro]

This is shocking!!
Almost half of Aboriginal men and more than a third of women die before they turn 45.

Half of all Tasmanians aged 15 to 74 are functionally illiterate.

About 620,000 Australians aged 15 to 74 have literacy skills at below level one on a five point literacy scale.

[bob10]

It would be equally unwise to dismiss all statistical information as misleading. Rejecting all statistics is no more sensible than just accepting all statistics at face value. (I do realise that is not what you are doing.)

Are there any particular ones in that article that you suspect may have been massaged or presented so that they give a misleading impression?



I would like a closer look at any organisation that presents statistics in order to be granted Government money, but I'm sure that would be done. After all, Governments are basically honest, aren't they? Bob

[THE BOOGER]

This is shocking!!
Almost half of Aboriginal men and more than a third of women die before they turn 45.

Half of all Tasmanians aged 15 to 74 are functionally illiterate.

About 620,000 Australians aged 15 to 74 have literacy skills at below level one on a five point literacy scale.

That was what I was looking at Tas has a pop of about 500 000 and half are functionally illiterate ? ie cant use a phone book or street directory:(

And the aboriginal figures are terrible but what is the answer just throwing money hasn't worked:(

[incisor]

ie cant use a phone book or street directory:(

i know a lot of very literate people that struggle to use a street directory.... :D

[bob10]

Just an example of how statistics can be manipulated, although it is not part of the list . Queensland's Department of justice & Attorney- General staff has had a workplace job satisfaction survey completed, but there is a delay in releasing the details. The reason? they are worse than expected. Not long ago, the Department of Corrective Services was merged with JAG , & the stats were heaped together. It is said morale is low with JAG employees, but much worse among the Corrective services ranks , so the solution? don't release the figures as is, separate the entities, show a better result. Bob


[ from Talk of the Town, Courier Mail Sat. ]

[jonesfam]

That was what I was looking at Tas has a pop of about 500 000 and half are functionally illiterate ? ie cant use a phone book or street directory:(

And the aboriginal figures are terrible but what is the answer just throwing money hasn't worked:(



Read the "Forrest Report", some very good ideas to make Aboriginal problems solvable.


Jonesfam

[Didge]

You'd struggle to find a phone book or street directory these days, wouldn't you?
It'll be even better when the govt gets their way and decides the young ones don't need to be able to write because everything is typed these days - can't read or write - the clever country - here we come!

[bob10]

Read the "Forrest Report", some very good ideas to make Aboriginal problems solvable.


Jonesfam


Europeans have been trying to solve the Aboriginal " problem " since 1788. Hasn't worked yet. Great idea to take the people off their land, and put different tribal groups together, on what could be only called reservations, a la indigenous Americans. The only people qualified to make Aboriginal problems solvable, are educated indigenous leaders. Short on the ground, at the moment. but enough to make a difference. I know some would condemn certain remote Indigenous communities over child abuse , & violence , I can't see any difference to mainstream Australia, with the evidence from a couple of enquiries atm, Catholic Church, any one? State child institutions, any one?


To call this an aboriginal problem, highlights a persons mindset , straight away. It is an Australian problem. No worse than " mainstream " Australia , just easier to see. And easy to use the term, Aboriginal, as an excuse. Bob


AITSL School Leadership Clearinghouse - Research - Making a difference: improving outcomes for indigenous learners (http://clearinghouse.aitsl.edu.au/Citations/625cdec4-1a24-4f7c-848b-a33300ab41a7)

[Bigbjorn]

I just wonder how many of them know what it is living under that conditions.

Queenslanders who lived under the redneck corrupt JBP government know.

[Chucaro]

Queenslanders who lived under the redneck corrupt JBP government know.

No, that was a legitimate elected government by the people that even now many of them still regarding JBP as a great leader and with a remarkable team.
Remember that some of people in that team were so popular and holding so high regards by the people that even one dam have the name of one of them.
JBP is gone but replaced by one the same caliber.
That it is democracy IMHO :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

This is shocking!!
Almost half of Aboriginal men and more than a third of women die before they turn 45.

Half of all Tasmanians aged 15 to 74 are functionally illiterate.

About 620,000 Australians aged 15 to 74 have literacy skills at below level one on a five point literacy scale.Yes but they're all related so its a family issue! :wasntme:

[Chucaro]

Yes but they're all related so its a family issue! :wasntme:

Mate! :o you are pushing the tolerance limits of some of the locals.
Go easy with that. :)

[UncleHo]

I grew up and started my working and driving career in the BJP era :mad: and after a minor incident (traffic related, I laughed at a motorcycle cop who fell off) I was advised to leave the State as a very serious charge had been trumped-up against me :( I applied for and got a transfer to Sydney,I returned 6 years later(by coach) for a funeral and was greeted by a detective who informed me that they were aware of my return :o and to watch my step! in the late 70's I heard that several thousand "secret files" were destroyed by the then Govt.

I with my family returned to Qld in 1982 :)

BJP--Govt.=Bent! Bent! Bent!

[Chucaro]

UncleHo, that was a draconian totalitarian government with some laws that were agains the democratic principles (like the one that like to introduce the Tasmanian gov now)
In a non democratic situation like to ones that I know, in you case, you will be finish with the following punishment outcomes:

light: imprisonment for few months and tortured without any hope of defense or your relatives knowing where you are.

medium: as above but in jail or army camp for many years.

Strong: tortured then killed and your body will never be found.
of course, in the case of a woman raped, killedand if have children given then to families that are in special positions and want adopt a child.

That is a non democratic government but acceptable by western countries. :)

Long live the democracy in Australia :)
amen

[DiscoMick]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-23/malcolm-fraser-calls-abbotts-team-australia-divisive/5691550

Interesting to see Malcolm Fraser dismiss Abbott's use of 'Team Australia' as an attempt to divide the country by implying that those who don't support his actions are not true Australians. Given that the LNP only received 45% of first preference votes at the last elections and their support has since fallen in the polls that would mean that the majority of Australians were not part of his Team Australia. I guess its just the old tactic of dictators who stir up hatred against a supposed enemy to cause people to overlook their faults and rally behnd them. Next thing he will be warning us to be wary of NZ!

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[BMKal]

Who cares what old Spit & Dribble Frazer thinks. :censored:

The man was an arrogant bloody fool when in politics, and retirement certainly hasn't changed any of that. ;)

[windsock]

Next thing he will be warning us to be wary of NZ!


So he should be... be very afraid of the same contagion in our democratic system over in your system. Have you noticed the state of our politics and democracy lately..?



Google "#Whaledump" "Nicky Hager" "Cameron Slater" "#Dirtypolitics" and read on.

[Greatsouthernland]

Europeans have been trying to solve the Aboriginal " problem " since 1788. Hasn't worked yet. Great idea to take the people off their land, and put different tribal groups together, on what could be only called reservations, a la indigenous Americans. The only people qualified to make Aboriginal problems solvable, are educated indigenous leaders. Short on the ground, at the moment. but enough to make a difference. I know some would condemn certain remote Indigenous communities over child abuse , & violence , I can't see any difference to mainstream Australia, with the evidence from a couple of enquiries atm, Catholic Church, any one? State child institutions, any one?


To call this an aboriginal problem, highlights a persons mindset , straight away. It is an Australian problem. No worse than " mainstream " Australia , just easier to see. And easy to use the term, Aboriginal, as an excuse. Bob


AITSL School Leadership Clearinghouse - Research - Making a difference: improving outcomes for indigenous learners (http://clearinghouse.aitsl.edu.au/Citations/625cdec4-1a24-4f7c-848b-a33300ab41a7)

Well they could get interested in solving their own problems (again :angel: ) Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php'title=Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islan der_Commission)

But you can read how that turned out and most likely would again...they need a united front (women and men disagree on leadership, see ref 3. In above). Too many 'clans' or 'tribes' and as with multiple land claims through the native title system, too many opinions that can't reach compromise. But that's all I've read and remembered, sadly I've got no answers so will leave it to Chuck and Bob to sort out :D

Edit: Yes Bob, I've had first hand experience, last century and this one. I also hate racism, so don't even misinterpret, 3 languages in my clan :)

[bob10]

Well they could get interested in solving their own problems (again :angel: ) Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php'title=Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islan der_Commission)

But you can read how that turned out and most likely would again...they need a united front (women and men disagree on leadership, see ref 3. In above). Too many 'clans' or 'tribes' and as with multiple land claims through the native title system, too many opinions that can't reach compromise. But that's all I've read and remembered, sadly I've got no answers so will leave it to Chuck and Bob to sort out :D


I don't have to read Wiki. My Grandmother was part aboriginal, my Great Grandmother full blood. I have been, in the territory, to Docker River, Papunya, Yuendamu. I have seen Bagot Road, at its worst. I have been to places that make my blood boil, where black people disgrace themselves. I have also seen people & places where black people stand tall, as good as any. Your off the cuff remarks are what has come to be expected of mainstream Australia. Give the native people a chance, they will sort the problem out. It's a long time down the track, though. Bob

[DiscoMick]

Who cares what old Spit & Dribble Frazer thinks. :censored:

The man was an arrogant bloody fool when in politics, and retirement certainly hasn't changed any of that. ;)

He wasn't perfect, but he was a real small-l liberal, unlike the current mob of extreme conservatives, and he was quite successful as PM. He's since left the Liberal Party in disgust at their tilt to the Right, so I think he provides an interesting perspective.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Greatsouthernland]

I don't have to read Wiki. My Grandmother was part aboriginal, my Great Grandmother full blood. I have been, in the territory, to Docker River, Papunya, Yuendamu. I have seen Bagot Road, at its worst. I have been to places that make my blood boil, where black people disgrace themselves. I have also seen people & places where black people stand tall, as good as any. Your off the cuff remarks are what has come to be expected of mainstream Australia. Give the native people a chance, they will sort the problem out. It's a long time down the track, though. Bob

Well I'm not surprised at that rant Bob, I've actually "lived" in those places you've 'visited', Off the cuff remarks, you couldn't be further 'off the mark'. I've been under management imposed curfew to stay out of harms way when the outback has witnessed some dumb acts. It doesn't get sorted out by the lot you say should, there's little respect that I've seen for elders.

I've been privileged to live next door to an elder in WA, she was the nicest Aboriginal I've met. I've worked with teams of Aboriginals in Qld Boulia and even a manager in WA who was part Aboriginal.

My best mate at boarding school was Aboriginal.

My brother was nearly beaten to a pulp by one when we were in primary school. My grandfathers farm had canoe trees on the river bank. My grandfather even had ... oh whatever, I'm at LEAST as qualified as you to make a remark. So as I said :p it is what it is.

Good luck with your own issues Bob, my observations are nothing to do with you, but jeez mate don't think you are the only one who's seen the real picture :angel:

PS You brought it up, btw, they always will be given the chance, but while we are waiting ... how about for the health of the kids and to protect the culture, that you remain open to the idea of the learning centre idea you linked?

[DiscoMick]

No, I must admit I haven't. Sorry... Can you summarize what we in Australia A, Australia B or Others have to fear?

[bob10]

Well I'm not surprised at that rant Bob, I've actually "lived" in those places you've 'visited', Off the cuff remarks, you couldn't be further 'off the mark'. I've been under management imposed curfew to stay out of harms way when the outback has witnessed some dumb acts. It doesn't get sorted out by the lot you say should, there's little respect that I've seen for elders.

I've been privileged to live next door to an elder in WA, she was the nicest Aboriginal I've met. I've worked with teams of Aboriginals in Qld Boulia and even a manager in WA who was part Aboriginal.

My best mate at boarding school was Aboriginal.

My brother was nearly beaten to a pulp by one when we were in primary school. My grandfathers farm had canoe trees on the river bank. My grandfather even had ... oh whatever, I'm at LEAST as qualified as you to make a remark. So as I said :p it is what it is.

Good luck with your own issues Bob, my observations are nothing to do with you, but jeez mate don't think you are the only one who's seen the real picture :angel:

PS You brought it up, btw, they always will be given the chance, but while we are waiting ... how about for the health of the kids and to protect the culture, that you remain open to the idea of the learning centre idea you linked?


Well, at least we are discussing the subject without prejudice. I've grown up with it. Yes, the picture changes with the environment. The wilder the environment, the wilder the picture. It would not be exaggerating to say the Aboriginal " problem " is the white mans doing. The only way it will be sorted, IMO, is when enough Aboriginal people are educated to a level where they can make a difference. Just to reiterate how difficult it can be, my mate was administrator [ for want of a better word] at Docker River, where a couple of different tribal groups were settled by the Government. One young man ran off with a young girl from the other skin group, I think it is called. The only police were from Alice Springs, or Giles, in WA. I believe. All he could do was report , and document proceedings. The young man was speared in the leg. This happened about 2 years ago.
Yep, horror stories abound, but no more than in the mainstream community. Aboriginal people do not need pity, or white do gooders with white solutions. just my opinion, and I have been wrong before. Back in about 1956, I think. :p BTW, my mate from Docker River said the happiest & most stable aboriginal people from the Docker River area were those who left the small township & lived in their own little settlements, self regulated. Bob Just a good news story if you are not aware.



Collaborating for Indigenous Rights 1957-1973 (http://indigenousrights.net.au/people/pagination/vincent_lingiari)