Mild howl from tyres or other problems?

[V2Evo96]

Getting a mild howling sound from somewhere when I decel to a stop or roundabout in the 2009 4L D3 (83,000 on the clock).

Don't notice it at speed or when accelerating (could be there but can't hear it) - only very noticeable when slowing down. It starts around 65/70kmh when either braking or rolling to slower speed. I've put the tranny in N while it happens and there is no change to the sound. I've pressed the brake pedal hard when it happens (as a test) and it does reduce a bit only while the brake is on.

The Kuhmo tyres have about 10,000k's left on them and I'm wondering if these could be the culprit although this just started a week ago(well I'm hoping it's tyres rather than drivetrain issues!)

Has anyone experienced this issue and if so any ideas on what could be the cause?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[sheerluck]

What variety of Khumos have you got on there? Is there any noticeable variation in wear across the width of the tyres?

[V2Evo96]

What variety of Khumos have you got on there? Is there any noticeable variation in wear across the width of the tyres?

Thanks sheerluck,

Kuhmo's are Road Venture APT OEM 18" wheels. Tread wear nice and even across the width, alignment and rotate done about 5000k's ago - no noise then .

[sheerluck]

Have you had the diff oils changed? What about an auto tranny service?

[V2Evo96]

Auto tranny fluid changed at 62,000, diff and transfer case fluids will be changed next week. Vehicle over-maintained by previous owner to satisfy the extended warranty requirements (not extended LR warranty as I recall without looking at it it's by AWM).

If it is driveline, any idea what it could be? COuld be a 'lash' issue somewhere? Worse? I feel ill.....

[sheerluck]

It's very difficult to give a clear diagnosis in these circumstances, but I have heard of several cases where the tyre noise worsened as the tyres wore.

However, there have been multiple cases of diffs becoming very noisy too (though that shouldn't come on suddenly)

I'd put a request out to see if you can swap tyres with someone to eliminate that first, then go ahead and do a diff oil change. It wouldn't hurt and is pretty cheap if you do end up changing diffs.

[vnx205]

While not exactly the same situation, there may be some connection between your experience and mine.

I used to run Jeep Service retreads on my Series III. They were never noticeably noisy except when I swapped the front tyres to the back and vice versa. For a short time, they howled enough to hear above the usual noises a Series LR makes.

The tread used to wear a saw tooth pattern. The front was in the opposite direction to the rear. Swapping the tyres briefly left the saw tooth facing the opposite way to the way it would eventually wear.

Is it possible that your tread has a slight saw tooth wear pattern created by the tyres driving the vehicle forward most of the time? If so then when the vehicle is decelerating, the saw tooth would effectively be the opposite way to the way it naturally wears.

Anyway while you consider that possibility, it might take your mind off the possibility of some more serious and expensive cause. :p

[V2Evo96]

Thanks sheerluck - It DID start very quickly - like one day quiet as usual then the howl started and no change of pitch or volume since it started (a week ago).

Big Thanks - I won't be able to swap the tyres with anyone, but as they are pretty much on the way out I may change them for new anyway. Gotta get them sooner or later....

[V2Evo96]

VNX I hope you are right! :( :D



While not exactly the same situation, there may be some connection between your experience and mine.

I used to run Jeep Service retreads on my Series III. They were never noticeably noisy except when I swapped the front tyres to the back and vice versa. For a short time, they howled enough to hear above the usual noises a Series LR makes.

The tread used to wear a saw tooth pattern. The front was in the opposite direction to the rear. Swapping the tyres briefly left the saw tooth facing the opposite way to the way it would eventually wear.

Is it possible that your tread has a slight saw tooth wear pattern created by the tyres driving the vehicle forward most of the time? If so then when the vehicle is decelerating, the saw tooth would effectively be the opposite way to the way it naturally wears.

Anyway while you consider that possibility, it might take your mind off the possibility of some more serious and expensive cause. :p

[Epic pooh]

Diffs can make a range of noises. My last diff made noises under acceleration / light loads (but a range of other noises are possible depending on worn component). Mine started making a distinctive noise quite suddenly and I successfully ignored it for a year before the wife decreed "get it fixed".

Diff wasn't particularly shockingly expensive ($1600 by dealer). Other howling things can be wheel bearings (normally related to road speed). The only howling / growling thing I've experienced over the years on decel is my ac compressor ... Which I am currently trying to ignore as that is about as expensive as the diff to change ... Oh well such is disco life :)

As sheerluck says, proceed with the oil change and see how it pans out - some noises are best left to develop so they can be clearly diagnosed and this might be one of those. See what your spanner spinner thinks when the oils are being done. And good luck !

[V2Evo96]

Thanks Mick -- do you recall how many k's on the clock when the diff noise started?

As for a diff fix if needed at least the extended warranty is still in effect - unless they can figure a way to get out of it that is.....

[Epic pooh]

Yeah, about 130ish, ignored for about 10000kms in which time it slowly got louder and the boss spoke up when it changed to obvious grinding / bits falling apart (not quite that bad but you know what I mean). Interestingly the noise started about 10000km after the diff oil had been changed ... Don't know if that was related ... But anyway all good now.

I've had howling tyres from wear and from memory they were noisy when decelerating but the worst noise was at about 80-90 on concrete surfaced roads. Does your noise change at all with road surface ? Probably something to consider.

[V2Evo96]

It does change slightly with road surface but still there. Tomorrow I'm going to bump the tyre pressure in the front to 36psi from the OEM recommendation of 33psi where it is now, to see if that makes a difference.

I just don't think it's a diff at 82k -- but stranger things have happened. Vehicle never been hard off road or towed anything to speak of. When I bought it at 62k the hitch had never been out of the holder as the spare hitch key was still zip tied to the yoke!

[Epic pooh]

If it changes with road surface I'd reckon it is pretty much certain to be tyres.

I suppose that leaves you with a very difficult question, one that is often asked around here ... what tyres next :woot:

[TerryO]

Sounds like tyres

[V2Evo96]

I'm feeling better by the minute!

Let's see - what tyres---- I don't do hard off road, mostly highway with some gravel roads and a bit of mud/clay in the paddocks in winter so a moderate AT would suit I reckon.

I'm thinking Pirelli Scorpion ATR (112H). Ozzy Tyres has them for $320 each at the mo. Can get them from KMart tyre for $380 fitted/balanced.

They get pretty good reviews at tyretest.com

Any negatives on these please feel free to speak out.

[V2Evo96]

Well the buggy goes in for a F&R diff and transfer case fluid change. Howl still there and I'm now wondering if it could be front wheel bearings....

Will find out tomorrow and report back.

[V2Evo96]

UPDATE TO HOWL:

Turned out to be front left wheel bearing (hub assembly). Dealer says $565 for hub and ~$200 fitting. I reckon I can do better than that....

Long gone are the good old days when one could pull the tapered bearings and pop in new ones themselves for $30....
Funny thing is the extended warranty would have been usable for the diff if that was it - wheel bearings are excluded of course.

On the bright side, at 83000km both front and rear diffs and the transfer case oils were in very good condition and could have made it easily to the 125k? recommended change-out, but glad to have done it anyway.

If anyone has changed out a wheel hub would you please advise how difficult the job was and if any special tools are required?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[Epic pooh]

Do both sides I'd advise. You'll get both sides for less than the dealer has quoted for one. Google around for prices. Instructions can be found at http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/17007/Discovery_3-4_Front_Wheel_Hub_replacement.pdf

Easy job, about an hour or so per side.

[V2Evo96]

Thanks Mick - appreciate you looking after me (us) here!
I can do that and have the tools needed including HD torque wrench.

Sorry but another question--- I found a hub for $240 - 1/2 of the dealer price available in Aussie . I'm pretty sure these would be aftermarket at that price.

In your opinion do you see any quality issues in the use of these? Vehicle gets general use in the slick paddocks and a bit of hilly stuff but no heavy towing and no heavy off road use.

Whadda ya think? :D

[sheerluck]

Steer clear of aftermarket if you can. Go OEM (Timken brand).

Looking around, the aftermarket ones only seem to have a one year warranty, the Timken ones a two year warranty. Must be a reason for that. ;)

[Epic pooh]

What he said --> Timkin only !

Non-LR branded ones are fine so long as they are Timkin !

[V2Evo96]

OK! Got a good vehicle - I shouldn't "cheap out" on it! Thanks all for the assistance from start to finish.