Transmission Reliability

[Grumbles]

Which is the most reliable etc behind the earlier L322 petrol V8's?

The 5 speed or the 6 speed auto tranny?

[Scouse]

You don't have a choice - it's a ZF 5HP24 5 speed gearbox.

[Grumbles]

I thought there were differences in the earlier models aka -

Transmission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29) automatic
5-speed (2002–2005)
6-speed (2006–2012)

[Scouse]

2006 - 2012 is early?

[Grumbles]

2006 to 2008 is in my book hence my original question.

[harlie]

What is referred to as an “early L322” - most would think of it as the BMW based models. Yeah I agree 2006 and after is not early.

The early V8 has a 5 speed.

2008 is not what most would consider early, completely different price bracket and completely different car under the covers. If you take statistical numbers of issues than the 6 speed in the mid to late models is more reliable just don't look at mileage.

Architecturally the 6 speed is a more reliable construction, it has something like 20-25% fewer parts and was a revolution in design. It needs a new pan as part of its first service which is a bit of $, but it makes it easy to see which ones are getting serviced. The filter is integrated into the pan and the new pan has a replaceable filter - that was not part of the inventors design....

[Grumbles]

It seems we have different and unresolvable semantic perspectives on what the term 'early' means.

harlie - thanks for the technical advice.

[Scouse]

Seeing as the L322 finished in 2012, you can hardly call 2006 - 2012 models 'early' :confused:

[Grumbles]

Scouse if you refer back to one of my earlier posts here I quantified my 'early' for you as being up to 2008.

Regardless as to whether my time line classification offends your sensibilities or not I can classify any time period I like as 'early'

[Laurie]

I'v always thought of the 4.4 BMW V8 Petrol & Td6 Models were the "Early Models"
Late models have Tdv8's and 4.2 Jag petrol v8's etc

Laurie

[33chinacars]

2002-2005 V8 ( BMW) = ZF 5 Speed auto

2002-2006 TD6 ( BMW) = GM 5L40E 5 Speed auto

2005- 2012 V8 ( Ford/ Jag) = ZF 6 Speed auto

2006 - 2012 TDV8 ( Ford/ Jag) = ZF 6 Speed auto


I'm with Laurie " early " being BMW models

[harlie]

2002-2005 V8 ( BMW) = ZF 5 Speed auto

2002-2006 TD6 ( BMW) = GM 5L40E 5 Speed auto

2005- 2012 V8 ( Ford/ Jag) = ZF 6 Speed auto

2006 - 2012 TDV8 ( Ford/ Jag) = ZF 6 Speed auto


I'm with Laurie " early " being BMW models

even that's not entirely correct. In the diesels, the ZF 6HP26 was replaced with the ZF 8HP70 (8 speed) when the 3.6 TDV8 was replaced with the 4.4 (2010?). Since I have no interest in petrol models, I'm not sure what went on in the petrol side.

As interest the 6HP26 was replaced with the 6HP28 (higher rated) in the SDV6 Disco4 for a while before it got the 8 speed. For those that fixate on max torque ratings, the 6HP26 is rated to max of 600nm with means that the 3.6 at 640nm standard is going to destroy it - which is funny because when they remap the 3.6 to 800nm the box seems fine, it's the engine that self destructs...

[33chinacars]

Opps forgot about 8 speed auto's :wasntme:

[radste]

Hi all,
so am I reading this correctly and assuming that 02-05 L322's have a ZF gearbox that are V8's?
If so will they be as good & reliable as their predecessor in the P38 and immune to the problems that we see in the diesel ones.


Thanks Steve

[Scouse]

Hi all,
so am I reading this correctly and assuming that 02-05 L322's have a ZF gearbox that are V8's?
If so will they be as good & reliable as their predecessor in the P38 and immune to the problems that we see in the diesel ones.


Thanks SteveYes, early V8s had the ZF but early on they were very unreliable due to the marginal cooling system.
The radiators had a habit of blocking up which would affect the transmission cooling too. Overheating transmissions didn't last long & the dealership I was in was doing a gearbox every week or so under LR warranty.
I guess most cooling systems have long been sorted out so it seems the transmissions are surviving.


When the cars were newish, the GM box behind the Td6 was unbreakable but it looks like the tables have turned now they're getting on in age.

[Grumbles]

I am seeing quite a few of the - shall we say - first series of the petrol L322s [02 to 05] - on Carsales which have traveled distances ranging from distances of 90,000 kms up to 130,00 kms.

Is it reasonable to say that these are still be vulnerable to the cooling/blocked radiator issues or are they at that stage when the problems would likely have already occurred and been rectified?

[radste]

I have read somewhere that the BMW thermostat lowers the temp & pressure to an acceptable level, more in line with our conditions in Australia.


If this works is it helpful in the longevity of the transmissions?


Thanks Steve

[Scouse]

I am seeing quite a few of the - shall we say - first series of the petrol L322s [02 to 05] - on Carsales which have traveled distances ranging from distances of 90,000 kms up to 130,00 kms.

Is it reasonable to say that these are still be vulnerable to the cooling/blocked radiator issues or are they at that stage when the problems would likely have already occurred and been rectified?
I would like to say they've been sorted now (or died completely) but I'm sure there are plenty of LM (L322) Range Rovers out there suffering cooling system issues that just get fixed & soldier on.


A couple of years ago, I did some background checks on around a dozen cars for a fellow AULROian who was keen on an early V8. Most of the cars had a history of cooling system problems. Some had 3 radiators replaced within 2 years, others had constant hose problems.


IMO, if you're looking at a car & it has a few nice new parts like a radiator or expansion tank, then it might be a problem car. The fact that it's still going might be down to it living an easy life (not towing or working hard).

[donrover0]

Yes, our local dealers workshop refer to early as the BMW ones; late as those that share the Jag petrol and Jag (peugeot based) diesel engines.

[Grumbles]

In summation then it seems the 2005- 2012 V8 Ford/ Jag ZF 6 Speed automatic is a reliable buying proposition. Unlike Harlie I have no real interest in any diesel powered car -4WD or not. Strange old world isn't it.

[harlie]

each to their own, nothing wrong with that.

[Grumbles]

All good Harlie. :D

[vbrab]

even that's not entirely correct. In the diesels, the ZF 6HP26 was replaced with the ZF 8HP70 (8 speed) when the 3.6 TDV8 was replaced with the 4.4 (2010?). Since I have no interest in petrol models, I'm not sure what went on in the petrol side.

As interest the 6HP26 was replaced with the 6HP28 (higher rated) in the SDV6 Disco4 for a while before it got the 8 speed. For those that fixate on max torque ratings, the 6HP26 is rated to max of 600nm with means that the 3.6 at 640nm standard is going to destroy it - which is funny because when they remap the 3.6 to 800nm the box seems fine, it's the engine that self destructs...

I was under the impression that the HP6 was up to the job of handling the 3.6 diesel (you would wonder why they matched the box with that motor if it wasn't up to it?).
My 3.6 is remapped and I generally drive it pretty steady with no foot planting, so max horses not delivered into the box, and I get trans oil changed regularly, but at 240k the HP6 has completely imploded and now lies waiting for a transplant of rebuilt box.
I would be interested in knowing whether the 6HP28 was a completely different box or just a HP26 with some internal modifications that perhaps my trans person could upgrade into the replacement HP26?

[vbrab]

even that's not entirely correct. In the diesels, the ZF 6HP26 was replaced with the ZF 8HP70 (8 speed) when the 3.6 TDV8 was replaced with the 4.4 (2010?). Since I have no interest in petrol models, I'm not sure what went on in the petrol side.

As interest the 6HP26 was replaced with the 6HP28 (higher rated) in the SDV6 Disco4 for a while before it got the 8 speed. For those that fixate on max torque ratings, the 6HP26 is rated to max of 600nm with means that the 3.6 at 640nm standard is going to destroy it - which is funny because when they remap the 3.6 to 800nm the box seems fine, it's the engine that self destructs...

I was under the impression that the HP6 was up to the job of handling the 3.6 diesel (you would wonder why they matched the box with that motor if it wasn't up to it?). (land Rover!! !@#$%
My 3.6 is remapped and I generally drive it pretty steady with no foot planting, so max horses not delivered into the box, and I get trans oil changed regularly, but at 240k the HP6 has completely imploded and now lies waiting for a transplant of rebuilt box.
The trans re-builder advises me that ALL 6HP26's that he rebuilds, now get the "Aussie pack", which is a big upgrade to the clutch packs and internals (probably what is in the 6HP28) as well as modifying the torque convertor to handle the extra torque, and I assume it is what they stick into the boxes that go behind the turbo big Fords that were sold with the 6HP26.

[Laurie]

Those Aussie upgrades came courtesy of Ford when they put the box in the Falcons and Gt's etc . Aussies being Aussies kept boosting the power till things broke, but then found better materials etc to make the box stronger, better input Shafts, etc There are a lot of performance parts for these boxes here. They will handle up to 1000hp [thumbsupbig]

ZF 6HP26 Performance Upgrades (https://drivelineap.com.au/2020/09/01/zfhp26-performance-upgrades/)

[DiscoDB]

I believe you will find the 600Nm torque rating is for the standard 2WD version of the 6HP26.

The belief is the AWD/4WD versions (6HP26A and 6HP26X) were actually good for 650Nm but you will struggle to find anything official confirming this.

Audi and Bentley also used the 6HP26 for all wheel drive V8s which also had 650Nm engines in them.