Whincup Breaks Peter Brock's Pole Position Record

[disco man]

Today's pole position by Jamie Whincup for race one at Sydney motorsport park takes him past Peter Brock's record.I don't like Whincup but what he has achieved in this sport is amazing and most likely be a record that won't be broken for many years.

[CraigE]

Yes but he has also started a lot more races and we are only talking supercars. Brock did a lot of other racing that was not included. A lot more races in the standard season these days.
Its not really comparing apples with apples. Whincup has always raced with a premier team and had all the support bells and whistles, Brock did not and was also in the days where pole was not important. Today it is critical.

[disco man]

Very true,but brock did enjoy all the love holden could give him for many years.While blokes like Goss,Grice,Bartlett, had very little support.But i agree with your statement about brock driving in a lot more different types of races.If all of them were added up i think it would be a big total.

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2014 Bathurst coming up guys. Enjoy the viewing!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I wonder if he would have so many if Ambrose had not left,,,

[disco man]

I wonder if he would have so many if Ambrose had not left,,,

Good call it's something i have always wondered. Whincup started the year Ambrose left. There is strong mail Ambrose is heading back,Whincup Vs Ambrose would be bloody good to see.

[Naviguesser]

Must remember that a lot of the race events have three races on a weekend and three separate qualifying sessions. Three pole positions up for grabs per race meeting instead of one back in the day.

[CraigE]

Very true,but brock did enjoy all the love holden could give him for many years.While blokes like Goss,Grice,Bartlett, had very little support.But i agree with your statement about brock driving in a lot more different types of races.If all of them were added up i think it would be a big total.

But Brock did not always have all that Holden could give. His early days were in private teams, then to HDT for a short stint, back to privateer teams for afew years, then back to HDT, low budget Volvo, BMW and second tier Ford, before back with HSV for a while, then his own team for a bit.
Back in the early days pole was no where near as important and often not sought.
Also no where the amount of races. From memory I think 78 for example was only 8 rounds and only 1 race each except for Wanneroo that had 2. Now days many more rounds with 2/3 races in the sprint rounds so possibly 2/3 podiums. And now 15 plus rounds and 30 odd races, compared with maybe 9 in the 70/80s.

[Redback]

Persnally I think Colin Bond, Jim Richards were better drivers than Brock.

GO THE VOLVO

WELL GO MCLAUGHLIN, great young driver.

[disco man]

But Brock did not always have all that Holden could give. His early days were in private teams, then to HDT for a short stint, back to privateer teams for afew years, then back to HDT, low budget Volvo, BMW and second tier Ford, before back with HSV for a while, then his own team for a bit.
Back in the early days pole was no where near as important and often not sought.
Also no where the amount of races. From memory I think 78 for example was only 8 rounds and only 1 race each except for Wanneroo that had 2. Now days many more rounds with 2/3 races in the sprint rounds so possibly 2/3 podiums. And now 15 plus rounds and 30 odd races, compared with maybe 9 in the 70/80s.

All good info there mate,i am aware of what your saying and i am not trying to take anything away from Brock.IMO Brock's record is far more impressive than Whincup's,i might upset a few people by saying this but the fact is Brock was up against far better drivers than Whincup which makes his record far more special.

[disco man]

Persnally I think Colin Bond, Jim Richards were better drivers than Brock.

GO THE VOLVO

WELL GO MCLAUGHLIN, great young driver.

Yep well said,i am well and truly behind GRM Volvo and young Scotty. I hope once Dahlgren gets his head around the cars and tracks he can be more effective next year.

[PAT303]

I tried watching the V8's,it's just not worth the time.The cars are dull and all look the same,the drivers don't really doing any balls out move's,they just play follow the leader for 99% of the time.Supercars are just a shadow of the 70's and 80's. Pat

[Pickles2]

I tried watching the V8's,it's just not worth the time.The cars are dull and all look the same,the drivers don't really doing any balls out move's,they just play follow the leader for 99% of the time.Supercars are just a shadow of the 70's and 80's. Pat
You obviously didn't watch any of the racing at the weekend, including a couple of the most "balls out moves" in the wet, by the Giz that I've ever seen.
Pickles.

[Outback 1]

I tried watching the V8's,it's just not worth the time.The cars are dull and all look the same,the drivers don't really doing any balls out move's,they just play follow the leader for 99% of the time.Supercars are just a shadow of the 70's and 80's. Pat

Thoroughly agree there is no brand loyalty anymore it's all about the dollars

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

[rick130]

Thoroughly agree there is no brand loyalty anymore it's all about the dollars

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app
**** brand loyalty, they're racing drivers, you try and get the best drive.

[rick130]

I tried watching the V8's,it's just not worth the time.The cars are dull and all look the same,the drivers don't really doing any balls out move's,they just play follow the leader for 99% of the time.Supercars are just a shadow of the 70's and 80's. Pat
Pat, it's really hard to pass when everyone is so even and you are relying on aero (albeit a minuscule amount) for grip.

[Outback 1]

**** brand loyalty, they're racing drivers, you try and get the best drive.

back in the 70s and 80s which we were referring to you always new who drove which make and even the good old privateer had o shot now its just poverty pack f1

[CraigE]

All good info there mate,i am aware of what your saying and i am not trying to take anything away from Brock.IMO Brock's record is far more impressive than Whincup's,i might upset a few people by saying this but the fact is Brock was up against far better drivers than Whincup which makes his record far more special.

You are right, there were a lot of better drivers in the old days. However maybe today the drivers all have better cars. In the 70 / 80s there were huge differences with budgets and cars.
Also cant remember what year it was but Brock raced in Europe and missed 2 rounds of the ATCC championship effectively giving the championship to Dick Johnson I think and removing the chance of another 2 poles.

[disco man]

You are right, there were a lot of better drivers in the old days. However maybe today the drivers all have better cars. In the 70 / 80s there were huge differences with budgets and cars.
Also cant remember what year it was but Brock raced in Europe and missed 2 rounds of the ATCC championship effectively giving the championship to Dick Johnson I think and removing the chance of another 2 poles.

Yeah i am not sure of the year either,but i think it's when him and Moffet took a VK? to Spa in Belgium,and the Wellington 500.

Imagine if the boys back in the day had the cars the guys use in TCM racing,some bloody nice machines in there:D

[Redback]

back in the 70s and 80s which we were referring to you always new who drove which make and even the good old privateer had o shot now its just poverty pack f1

There's only ever been one Brand loyal driver I remember and that was Larry Perkins, most of the drivers from back then went for the best and fastest car, look at Brock, Longhurst, Bartlett, Jim Richards, Colin Bond, I started going to Bathurst in the early 70s, bikes and cars, Amaroo, Oran Park, never missed the racing on TV.

The reason for all the overtaking back then, was not about the driver(although it helped) it was the car, so many privateer teams with not a lot of cash, so any time a good drive came up, the driver would go there, not any different now IMO.

With the parody, it's all about the driver and the team who set the car up.

I do agree that the cars look pretty much the same and at times it can be a boring single line race, but not all the time, and now that the teams other than Holden and Ford are back, it should end up a good series, I quite enjoyed the weekends racing, especially Saturday.

Baz.

[Pickles2]

There's only ever been one Brand loyal driver I remember and that was Larry Perkins, most of the drivers from back then went for the best and fastest car, look at Brock, Longhurst, Bartlett, Jim Richards, Colin Bond, I started going to Bathurst in the early 70s, bikes and cars, Amaroo, Oran Park, never missed the racing on TV.

The reason for all the overtaking back then, was not about the driver(although it helped) it was the car, so many privateer teams with not a lot of cash, so any time a good drive came up, the driver would go there, not any different now IMO.

With the parody, it's all about the driver and the team who set the car up.

I do agree that the cars look pretty much the same and at times it can be a boring single line race, but not all the time, and now that the teams other than Holden and Ford are back, it should end up a good series, I quite enjoyed the weekends racing, especially Saturday.

Baz.
Well said mate, and very true.
With regard to previous posters,...As far as the cars are concerned, yes they are very close, "set up" is vital, and I would also have to say, that the current cars are far more difficult to drive, they're more complex, some drivers are STILL getting used to them, and the pressure to succeed, and the need to succeed, is far greater than the "Old Days",...and I enjoyed the "old days" too.
I knew Brock very well, knew him before He became "famous", but it would be fair to say, that once he joined the Holden Dealer Team, He did have good equipment, most of the time, but that's just the way it is,..the best funded teams are the best teams, they get the best drivers, the best equipment, and consequently, they do most of the winning.
Pickles.

[disco man]

Just touching on privateer teams,blokes like "Captain Peter Janson and Bob Morris could really stick it to the big boys at times.And the legend that is Larry Perkins ran a first class operation with many great wins.

[PAT303]

Pat, it's really hard to pass when everyone is so even and you are relying on aero (albeit a minuscule amount) for grip.

That's the problem,no one can overtake,it's not about the best driver but the best blocker :D. Pat

[PAT303]

You obviously didn't watch any of the racing at the weekend, including a couple of the most "balls out moves" in the wet, by the Giz that I've ever seen.
Pickles.

So it's only interesting when it rains?. Pat

[Pickles2]

So it's only interesting when it rains?. Pat
If you'd bothered to watch, you'd have known that it didn't rain on Sunday, & likewise if you'd watched on the Saturday, when to to use your "balls" quote, they ("balls") were very much necessary, the Giz must have very big ones,....but seriously my friend, if you can't be bothered watching, and you obviously aren't interested in getting up to speed with COTF, ...all good, but if you've got no interest,..why are you bothering to post?
Pickles.

[CraigE]

Possibly not totally about brand loyalty, but more about sponsorship from the General and consistency, plus he built his own engines and his workshop and workbase were around Holden engines. Very, very intelligent man. I have had a few conversations with him about building engines. Dick Johnson was initially a big Holden man and probably should have driven more races for HDT than he did and should have been a factory driver at HDT with Brock. Brock while often had good gear also had to do it with sub-standard cars until pretty much 1978.
Larry did also drive other cars including Elfins in both Ford and Chevrolet powered and Ralt Fords in open wheelers Volkswagons in Rallycross, Jaguar, in World Sportscar Prototype, A Porsche 956 in the World Sportscar Championship.
But most certainly in ATCC and V8 Supercar stayed loyal to Holden and was great to see. Bit of a shame to see young Jack in a Ford.
But as Peter Brock said to me better to have a drive with a decent car in an opposing brand than not to have a drive at all or have a very substandard drive.
Brock would have also stayed loyal to the Holden Brand if he had not had the fallout with Holden management. I have personally had this conversation with him twice, the first when he was actually driving for Ford at the Adelaide Motor Show at the Ford stand, the Ford rep was not very impressed in the conversation we were having and had to walk away.
The sad thing with the cars now is they are neither really Holden or Ford amongst the big 2, but a conglomeration or performance parts (Dont see too many Commy's or Con's with transaxles on the road). It will eventually get to the stage of Nascar with the only thing resembling the brand being the badge on the bonnet.


There's only ever been one Brand loyal driver I remember and that was Larry Perkins, most of the drivers from back then went for the best and fastest car, look at Brock, Longhurst, Bartlett, Jim Richards, Colin Bond, I started going to Bathurst in the early 70s, bikes and cars, Amaroo, Oran Park, never missed the racing on TV.

The reason for all the overtaking back then, was not about the driver(although it helped) it was the car, so many privateer teams with not a lot of cash, so any time a good drive came up, the driver would go there, not any different now IMO.

With the parody, it's all about the driver and the team who set the car up.

I do agree that the cars look pretty much the same and at times it can be a boring single line race, but not all the time, and now that the teams other than Holden and Ford are back, it should end up a good series, I quite enjoyed the weekends racing, especially Saturday.

Baz.

[worane]

Back in the late nineties thru the early two thousands, I lived in Tasmainia.
My wife and I used to do time keeping and marshaling duties in Targa Tas.
One year 2000 I think , Brockie and Richards were in Mole Creek for a public lunch break.
I noted that the whole one hour lunch break ( taken in the carpark outside the village hall). That Brockie had a crowd of people around him constantly and did not really get a chance to eat but happily answered questions.
Jim was lucky as he was left to have his lunch alone.

[CraigE]

Back in the late nineties thru the early two thousands, I lived in Tasmainia.
My wife and I used to do time keeping and marshaling duties in Targa Tas.
One year 2000 I think , Brockie and Richards were in Mole Creek for a public lunch break.
I noted that the whole one hour lunch break ( taken in the carpark outside the village hall). That Brockie had a crowd of people around him constantly and did not really get a chance to eat but happily answered questions.
Jim was lucky as he was left to have his lunch alone.

The main difference between Brock and a lot of other drivers was Brock thrived on giving back to his fans and genuinely seemed to enjoy it. The times I met or saw him he always seemed calm and happy to talk and sign. I have seen many other drivers get fed up and walk away, even nasty and aggressive to fans. Wayne Gardiner was one.
There are others and a lot depends on their mind set, health and stress at the time.
The drivers I have never seen lose it when talking to fans include Peter Brock, Alan Grice, Jim Richards, Craig Lowndes, Steven Johnson, John Bowe.
I saw DJ not happy once, but I do also understand he had a nasty cold at the time as well at Bathurst so could cut him a break and now I also understand there were also major financial issues with the team at the time.

[disco man]

The main difference between Brock and a lot of other drivers was Brock thrived on giving back to his fans and genuinely seemed to enjoy it. The times I met or saw him he always seemed calm and happy to talk and sign. I have seen many other drivers get fed up and walk away, even nasty and aggressive to fans. Wayne Gardiner was one.
There are others and a lot depends on their mind set, health and stress at the time.
The drivers I have never seen lose it when talking to fans include Peter Brock, Alan Grice, Jim Richards, Craig Lowndes, Steven Johnson, John Bowe.
I saw DJ not happy once, but I do also understand he had a nasty cold at the time as well at Bathurst so could cut him a break and now I also understand there were also major financial issues with the team at the time.

I remember meeting Brock at lakeside in the early 80's when i was a young fella,the thing that sticks in my mind was the line up was huge and he had a way of making you feel like the most important person.The way he interacted with fans was incredible.

I took my daughters to the Townsville 500 to meet Lowndes and i see a lot of the same with him bloody nice bloke.I am/was a ford fan,but the day Brock died i must admit it hit me harder than i thought it would.RIP you legend.