Towbar Height

[Hoppy11]

Hi all, it is possible to remove the tongue, mount it upside down and put the towball up the opposite way to raise the height of the whole towball on a D4 ?

[rufusking]

Yes, no issue. A quick search will bring up a previous thread on this.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/202779-d4-tow-hitch.html

[Hoppy11]

Awesome, thanks for that.

[LandyAndy]

I wonder how much clearance there is for the lower tailgate with an inverted tounge.
Yet to insert a tounge in Snow Whites nether regions:o:o:o:o:o:o
Andrew

[ADMIRAL]

No problem with the tailgate with a LR hitch, but you may have an issue using a larger offset lug in a Mitch hitch. ( it would be very high though ) Pays to do a couple of gentle open and close operations while having a good look.

[Hoppy11]

Clearance is all good, a decent 4 inch raise in height.

[rovers4]

Be aware that there is a Reg that says that the center of the towball should not be above 460mm from the ground when the rig is laden.

I am yet to fully understand the reasons and whether it applies to all vehicles, or just cars. I know my van and larger trailers need to be at that height for the towed item to sit level.

rovers4

[Epic]

We're buying our first camper and take delivery in October. The bottom part if the treg coupling will sit at 470mm according to the manufacturer. They wouldn't get a road worthy tick if they were outside or the regulation.

[DiscoMick]

Isn't the real issue about whether there is enough towball weight to keep the trailer stable while towing? Raising the tow hitch too far by reversing the towbar to get more height might reduce the towball weight and make the trailer unstable. Of course, that all depends on the standard height and the weight distribution in the trailer.
That said, I have run our Disco (which has a 50mm lift) with the towbar both ways around, reversing it to raise the towbar when I needed extra ground clearance over sand for the Treg hitch, and it didn't seem to make any difference, but that was not at highway speeds.
Incidentally, on Saturday I saw a lifted Patrol towing a little trailer and the trailer was lifted so much at the front for the towball on the jacked up Parol that the back of the trailer banged on a speed hump in a shopping centre car park!


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[stray dingo]

I asked Vic Roads at one point why and they responded with the stability reason too. 'testing' shows it at most stable at that height.

[DiscoMick]

I guess if the trailer is level then you would expect the manufacturer to have designed it to have the right towball weight when level.

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[ADMIRAL]

Isn't the real issue about whether there is enough towball weight to keep the trailer stable while towing? Raising the tow hitch too far by reversing the towbar to get more height might reduce the towball weight and make the trailer unstable. Of course, that all depends on the standard height and the weight distribution in the trailer.
That said, I have run our Disco (which has a 50mm lift) with the towbar both ways around, reversing it to raise the towbar when I needed extra ground clearance over sand for the Treg hitch, and it didn't seem to make any difference, but that was not at highway speeds.
Incidentally, on Saturday I saw a lifted Patrol towing a little trailer and the trailer was lifted so much at the front for the towball on the jacked up Parol that the back of the trailer banged on a speed hump in a shopping centre car park!


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If it is a leaf sprung caravan or trailer, the ball weight will generally increase as the nose is lifted. Forcing the trailer back on to the springs, loads the springs up, and with a caravan can increase sway as weight is transferred back. If you have a ballweight scale, try it on your own vans.
A trailer or van should be towed level, unless the manufacturer specifies otherwise. I understand there are a few caravans out there where the manufacturer actually recommends a slight nose down attitude. You will undoubtedly here campfire chat, where some owners say they are deliberately setting the nose down to reduce wind resistance and save fuel. ( I have no opinion on that one ....yet )

[Glynhouse]

My understanding of the height regulations is that they refer to "The tow-ball" if you have a Treg or any of the other hitch's around these days it does not apply !
Will stand correcting on that but am sure that is correct, my van came supplied new from the factory with a hitch height of 560mm ! ??
Suited the cruiser fine and as it turned out suits the Disco with an inverted hitch spot on.

DD

P.S. Edit. I have fully load sharing tandem, it makes no difference to ball weight or wheel weights what height the ball is tho I always set it up to be level if not then slightly nose down but level preferably. DD

[Tombie]

We're buying our first camper and take delivery in October. The bottom part if the treg coupling will sit at 470mm according to the manufacturer. They wouldn't get a road worthy tick if they were outside or the regulation.

Don't bet the farm on that one :cool:

[TerryO]

Here is the national standard for 50 mm ball couplings.


Coupling Height -50mm Ball Couplings
Ball couplings used on trailers with an ATM of up to 3.5 tonnes must comply with Australian Standard 4177-3 and be installed so that when the coupling and towball are connected to the laden towing vehicle; the height to the centre of the tow ball above the ground shall measure between 350mm and 460mm (or be capable of being adjusted).

I have asked the RTA if this standard applies to other couplings especially off road and I have not been able to get a straight answer from them. Usually they start off by saying it must be less than 460 mm as per the standard. Then when you remind them that it says for 50 mm Ball couplings and your asking about a different coupling they usually start to make strange noises and go round in circles while making no sense. I have tried three or four times to get a straight answer and never have.

[winaje]

Set to access height when being measured...

[TerryO]

I have never been able to get a straight answer on the (or capable of being adjusted) line at the end of the standards means either.

I asked does it mean if its capable of being adjusted then it can be towed at a higher height or not?

[Redback]

Can anyone explain the definition of OFFROAD when it comes to towing:confused:

[ADMIRAL]

Can anyone explain the definition of OFFROAD when it comes to towing:confused:

I think the technical term is non gazzetted road. It would probably pay to get a definition from your particular insurance company

[DiscoMick]

One insurance company bloke said it meant a track that was not marked on a map.

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[TerryO]

Barry this what they refer to when off road towing is discussed,

Off-Road Couplings (Non-50mm ball type)
Off-Road couplings are designed for use where high degrees of articulation are required. Some use a separate pin to connect, whilst others use a built in locking mechanism. Many have polyurethane components to absorb shocks.

All of these couplings are required to incorporate a positive locking mechanism plus a separate means of retaining this mechanism in the locked position. This locking must be readily verifiable by visual examination.

The use of tools to engage or disengage is not allowed on couplings up to 3500kg.

Both parts of the coupling must be marked with the Manufacturers name or trademark, the words “use with model (identified model)” and the maximum allowable trailer ATM i.e. 3500kg at which the coupling is rated.

[Redback]

That part I get Terry, but what is considered OFFROAD, is the Birdsville Track offroad and if a gazetted road is not classed as offroad, then any track in any area in Australia marked on a map is not offroad.

This means if you pull off the road with a van over 1000kg attached to your 4WD, it's now illegal:eek:

Because you are now OFF the ROAD:cool:

[TerryO]

Sorry I don't get where your coming from Barry, where does it say anything over 1000 kg is illegal to be towed off road?

[DiscoMick]

That part I get Terry, but what is considered OFFROAD, is the Birdsville Track offroad and if a gazetted road is not classed as offroad, then any track in any area in Australia marked on a map is not offroad.

This means if you pull off the road with a van over 1000kg attached to your 4WD, it's now illegal:eek:

Because you are now OFF the ROAD:cool:

No, because you're almost certainly in the road reserve, which is normally much wider than the constructed road, so if you're in the road reserve, you're not off-road.

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[ADMIRAL]

Sorry I don't get where your coming from Barry, where does it say anything over 1000 kg is illegal to be towed off road?

The LR manual under 'towing', states Maximum permissible towed weights - off road , trailers with overrun brakes 1000kg.

Again you would need a definition of off road from LR.

[TerryO]

Stating something is a restiction in a LR book doesn't make it illegal, it just gives the distributor a potential excuse to void warranty if something goes wrong and brakes. As the D4 is four years old there is no warranty so who cares what the LR manual says.

As I have said before you take your chances and accept the responsibiity if something goes wrong.

[Redback]

Sorry I don't get where your coming from Barry, where does it say anything over 1000 kg is illegal to be towed off road?

In your owners manual Terry!!

[TerryO]

You reckon it says its illegal?

[Tombie]

You reckon it says its illegal?

Exceeding a manufacturers specification certainly is:D

[TerryO]

Ok so it was illegal for me to tow my 2.5 ton caravan off road when I lived on a farm? Or when bush camping on private property, which I have a number of times? Or similar?

I may be wrong but my understanding is Off road means off road, not off bitumen road or on made made dirt roads or tracks on public land or even on public land without tracks. A fenced and gated rural farm property is also off road as well, so is private fenced and gated bush property's they are also considered off road.

You can drive an unregistered uninsured vehicle on a farm or privately owned bush property and it's not illegal so what makes towing a van over 1000 kg with your Disco on the same off road property's Illegal?

So again does the hand book say its illegal?

[Redback]

Ok so it was illegal for me to tow my 2.5 ton caravan off road when I lived on a farm? Or when bush camping on private property, which I have a number of times? Or similar?

I may be wrong but my understanding is Off road means off road, not off bitumen road or on made made dirt roads or tracks on public land or even on public land without tracks. A fenced and gated rural farm property is also off road as well, so is private fenced and gated bush property's they are also considered off road.

You can drive an unregistered uninsured vehicle on a farm or privately owned bush property and it's not illegal so what makes towing a van over 1000 kg with your Disco on the same off road property's Illegal?

Private property has it's own rules, set by the owner, is the road into the property a gazetted road, if so, not classified as offroad, many van manufacturers void warrantys if the van breaks and you're offroad, does that mean a gravel road is their interpretation of offroad:confused:


Oh and relax Terry, it's just lighthearted chatter:eek:

[TerryO]

Private property has it's own rules, set by the owner, is the road into the property a gazetted road, if so, not classified as offroad, many van manufacturers void warrantys if the van breaks and you're offroad, does that mean a gravel road is their interpretation of offroad:confused:

:


Forgetting all this latest stuff about van warranties when towing off road because this discussion is about Land Rovers, again I'm just asking where does it say its illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road with a Disco?

I did find in the handbook that you shouldn't tow anything at above 100 kph on road and I did find that you can increase your GVM by 100 kg if your towing (at least in Europe anyway) but I cannot find what your stating it says is illegal.

[Tombie]

I think the definition here is not the insurance definition, rather the LR and legal definition.

LR specify an offroad towing mass - whilst Walkers Track in the VHC is gazetted, I'm sure it is deemed offroad by LR standards :)

The point being, IF, LR decide that a non-graded road is offroad, or a beach etc (all of which are gazetted) and the law agrees that these fall under that definition then towing over the specified 1,000kg would be:
Operating outside design (warranty implications)
Overloaded (legal and insurance implications)

[Tombie]

Offroad towing weight (braked) is how it's written Terry

[Tombie]

And don't feel too bad, the other brands do the same!

[TerryO]

I'm not trying to be a smart arse but seriously where does it say in the hand book or I'll even extend it to the manual or anywhere in a Land Rover made public document that its illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road?

I have found in the hand book the following in part;

RECOMMENDED TOWING WEIGHTS

Trailers with Overrun brakes ... Off-Road ... 1000 kg

But it does not say its illegal and again if its off road on private fenced and gated rural land then things like rego and insurance don't apply so why would a stated towing weight limit be illegal if not having rego isn't illegal?

To me it looks like a recommendation and something that if it could be proven by LR then it would affect any warranty, but I can't see how it is illegal. If its indeed illegal then that means you committing an offence and can be charged by the Police for breaking the law and then face penalties.

It it can be shown then seriously I'd like to know for sure that if I tow a trailer/van off road that weights more than 1000 kg then it is illegal and I'm sure plenty of others would like to know as well.

[winaje]

The question is this:

Is it against the law to exceed the manufacturers recommended towing weight in the available documentation that the driver has?

I love legal questions, so went downstairs and asked a Victorian lawyer the following 2 questions.

1. Question: Is it an offence to tow something that exceeds the manufacturers weight recommendation in the vehicle handbook. Answer: No.

2. Question: Is it an offence to tow something that exceeds the manufacturers weight recommendation in the vehicle handbook, if something "goes wrong" with the tow (damage/injury/death). Answer: Yes. The driver would be open to prosecution under the charge of negligent driving (causing damage/injury/death) as the driver had deliberately exceeded the manufacturers towing weight recommendations.

This is general legal advice only, non specific. Would also be a difficult situation from an insurance point of view, if any (damage/injury/death) occurred.

[TerryO]

Will possibly there needs to be a third question;

Did you ask him if all of what he said about being charged with a traffic offence and being prosecuted still applies to a vehicle that is being driving in an area where road rules don't apply?

[Tombie]

Not sure of your area legislation Terry, but in SA, misuse of a motor vehicle can still be applied on private property.

[TerryO]

Tombie, chances are in every State and Territory in Australia there is some kind of law, if not multiple laws, that nearly anyone at any time no matter what they are doing can get charged with.

But that's not really the point here, all I'm asking is to be shown the proof of where LR says it is illegal, namely an offence, for a D3/4 or RRS to tow more than a 1000 kg off road?

[Tombie]

Tombie, chances are in every State and Territory in Australia there is some kind of law, if not multiple laws, that nearly anyone at any time no matter what they are doing can get charged with.

But that's not really the point here, all I'm asking is to be shown the proof of where LR says it is illegal, namely an offence, for a D3/4 or RRS to tow more than a 1000 kg off road?

I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...

And here is the law component:

Maximum Trailer Mass
Throughout Australia, the allowable maximum mass for the trailer is either the capacity of the tow vehicle’s towing attachment or the towing limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the towing vehicle, whichever is the least.
OR
If the vehicle’s manufacturer has not made a recommendation as to the towing mass, then the following rules apply:

A vehicle may tow a laden trailer of up to one and a half times the unladen mass of the tow vehicle, provided that the towbar is rated accordingly and the trailer is fitted with brakes that comply with the requirements stipulated in the Australian Design Rule ADR38.

If the trailer is not fitted with brakes, then the maximum mass must not exceed the unladen mass of the motor vehicle. The unladen mass of the vehicle can be found in the vehicle’s handbook, or check with your dealer.

All trailers with a GTM exceeding 750kgs must have brakes.

As Land Rover specify a towing mass when 'off-road' (the bit that requires definition) this renders towing anything over 1,000kg (as specified by LR) as illegal on public, commonwealth etc land where the definition of 'off road' is met.

So the better argument - What is the definition of Off road?

[Graeme]

My interpretation is that as the 1000kg is stated for when using over-run brakes, fitting of electric brakes provides an escape from the limitation.

[Redback]

Tombie, chances are in every State and Territory in Australia there is some kind of law, if not multiple laws, that nearly anyone at any time no matter what they are doing can get charged with.

But that's not really the point here, all I'm asking is to be shown the proof of where LR says it is illegal, namely an offence, for a D3/4 or RRS to tow more than a 1000 kg off road?

In regards to private property, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it would be a civil matter and the owner of the property would be liable.

I'm pretty sure it's in the manual Terry, as Tombie has stated, this has me thinking now, might have a look in our D4 manual tonight.

Baz.

[TerryO]

I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...


Again this only applies on public roads, whether they be hard top or dirt, there are lots of places where road rules do apply so that is something to be mindful of. However the advice I have been given is it is not an offence (illegal) to tow outside the manufacturers either recommended or stated weight limit where the road rules don't apply.

Again off road is where the road rules do not apply and the statement was that it is illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road.

Also I agree with Graeme on what the manual says about brakes. But that is another discussion.

Regarding Barry's comment in his latest post on this, yes I believe you are correct about it being a potential civil matter if something goes wrong on a persons property as it always has been the case, but again this does not make it illegal.

[Redback]

Again this only applies on public roads, whether they be hard top or dirt, there are lots of places where road rules do apply so that is something to be mindful of. However the advice I have been given is it is not an offence (illegal) to tow outside the manufacturers either recommended or stated weight limit where the road rules don't apply.

Again off road is where the road rules do not apply and the statement was that it is illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road.

Also I agree with Graeme on what the manual says about brakes. But that is another discussion.

Regarding Barry's comment in his latest post on this, yes I believe you are correct about it being a potential civil matter if something goes wrong on a persons property as it always has been the case, but again this does not make it illegal.



Originally Posted by Tombie https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/204403-towbar-height-post2213692.html#post2213692)
I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...

This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??

Baz.

[TerryO]

Barry, this whole merry go round discussion started here when you said the following;



That part I get Terry, but what is considered OFFROAD, is the Birdsville Track offroad and if a gazetted road is not classed as offroad, then any track in any area in Australia marked on a map is not offroad.

This means if you pull off the road with a van over 1000kg attached to your 4WD, it's now illegal:eek:

Because you are now OFF the ROAD:cool:

I than asked where it says its illegal and you went on to say in the LR Manual.


Again sorry but I believe your comment is incorrect and misleading, I rang a lawyer that I know well yesterday arvo after further comments by you and Tombie defending the point that it is illegal.

This guy specialises in these kinds of traffic and also criminal cases and he said that it is not illegal (namely an offence) to tow a trailer over the manufacturers stated weight limit off road, because once truly off road then road laws don't apply so it's not an offence thus it's not illegal.

And he said it would be highly unlikely that any manufacturers manual would state that something is illegal. That is up to governments through laws to say what is legal and what is not.

My point in all this is you keep saying and defending the point that it is illegal. Where is the proof that the act you talk about is illegal?

[Graeme]

This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??Changing something on your vehicle does not necessarily make driving it in public illegal. Its normally only illegal to drive a vehicle on public property that does not comply with our regulations at the time it was first registered. Driving a D4 with with a bull bar fitted is not illegal as long as the bull bar complies with regulations even though LR have placed a sticker under the bonnet stating that non-LR approved bars should not be fitted.

[Redback]

This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??

Baz.

Hence the bold, only asking Terry, my original question was;

What is the definition of OFFROAD or Who's definition is correct??

I've never really gotten an answer to this question, is it one of these grey areas??

Mmmm merry-go-round you say:whistling:

That's it from me, got my answer.

Baz.

[Meken]

It says "over-run" brakes - are they the same as electric brakes controlled from within the vehicle?

[Meken]

Legal requirements
To ensure the safety of yourself and other road users, you must abide by the laws governing the towing of trailers. These are:
• the vehicle and trailer must comply with all relevant registration requirements;



Towing vehicle
In the interests of reliability and safety, follow these rules and conditions:
Ensure that the lower of the following is not exceeded:
• the maximum towing capacity of the motor vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer; or
• the capacity of the towing apparatus fitted to the vehicle.
Note: This information can be obtained from the owner’s manual or the manufacturer. If the motor vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:

This is from the qld safe towing guide... If the question the max weight of trailers they'll be referring to the owner's manual...

From some googling Over run brakes are definitely different from electric brakes.

[Graeme]

Trailer electric brakes operate regardless of whether the tow vehicle is slowing or not - indeed electric brakes on the trailer have the potential to slow the tow vehicle, not possible with over-run brakes.

[Epic pooh]

Over-run brakes on trailers require the vehicle to decelerate so that the brakes will activate, there is no control for the trailer brakes in the cabin - so the trailer can push the vehicle around a bit compared to electric brakes in certain circumstances. I imagine this is why they've specified trailers with that particular type of brakes as having an off road towing weight restriction.

Personally I tow a little old van with over-run brakes that weighs a fair bit more than the specified 1,000kgs in various conditions so this is an interesting conversation to me. I suppose defining the nebulous term "off road" is the key issue. Does it have a common meaning ? A legal meaning ? A meaning for insurance purposes ? A meaning according to the situation in question ? I'm not sure really.

[Meken]

I would start with the Macquarie dictionary apparently that's the one the aus legal system uses ;)

[stray dingo]

Sorry I don't get where your coming from Barry, where does it say anything over 1000 kg is illegal to be towed off road?

From what I can find on Topix, it says it under the towing section for D3s, D4s adn RRS up to and including MY11. MY12 and on does not have it.
It is also listed for RRS MY14 + MY15 with a 'powered' tow bar

[TerryO]

Does it actually say its illegal?

[Epic pooh]

My understanding is that legality would arise from the law not the handbook. World would be a shocking place were it otherwise ... :)

It might be an offence to fail to abide by the manufactures guidelines with respect to towing. Say that is the case, we need to define off-road satisfactorily so we can know if we might be flouting the law. Need someone smarter and less lazy than me to answer these questions.

I just exercise due care and hope for the best.

[TerryO]

The point I was trying to get across is there are exceptions to where you can go off road and where you can't that either do or don't come under the jurisdiction of the road laws and its the road laws that determine what's illegal (an offence) and what's not, not what is written in a hand book by LR and quoted on here as being illegal.

I have had several discussions with police previously at work when this topic came up about where the road laws apply and where they don't and lately because of this thread a discussion I had with a lawyer who in part specialises in traffic offence law and they both have said that the road laws don't apply every where as many people think they do.

So I believe to just blanket say its illegal to tow more than 1000kg off road is not only incorrect but misleading.

[101RRS]

Terry - You're flogging a dead horse.

[Epic pooh]

I agree with what you have written. Particularly the last sentence.

I was not previously aware that LR has a stated limit on the off road towing capacity for trailers like mine (which exceed the stated weight and has the offending brake type). Hence my description of the term as "nebulous" - what does it mean to me (and others with similar rigs) in practical terms ? Don't know and I don't think we will work it out here.

I can understand the restriction in hard conditions, but in Australia we have many gazetted roads that are pretty tough. Can I tow on a sand highway ? On a gazetted road of any type ? Common sense would say yes ... but common sense and the law are often at odds (hence the expression "legal fiction").

Anyway this thread has led me to know something I didn't previously know and I'm grateful for that.

Edit: Also this thread gives justification to my semi-idea that I might fit electric brakes to my van ... for avoidance of doubt and all that ... and also because over ride brakes are annoying and thumpy ... just add that to the "gunna" list I think ... because on the other side of the coin, override brakes are useful because I don't need to wire up the other car for the brake controller ... oh well !

[DiscoMick]

The issue would be what is off-road. An unsealed road is not off-road. Wouldn't off-road be if a route was not a gazetted road? So LR's recommendation would only apply if, for example, the trailer was towed across a paddock.
There is a standard for importing off-road vehicles, which are defined as vehicles not designed to travel on public roads, so 'off-road' is apparently off a public road.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/import_options/orneao.aspx

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[101RRS]

The writers of a Landrover handbook in the UK would have no idea what constitutes a gazetted road in Australia.

No, the writers had something in mind - most likely something like a gravel road is onroad and a firetrail in the mountains and worse, is offroad. Unfortunately LR does not provide a definition in the handbook and if someone got booked towing over 1000kg with a braked trailer offroad then it would be up to the courts to determine what LR means by offorad.

Eg Seaside beach on Fraser Is is a gazetted road and for the most part could (arguably) be classed as onroad but some sections (still gazetted) are definitely offroad such as the bypasses around the headlands and the rocks at the northern end of Orchid Beach.

We clearly all have thoughts but until someone from LR tells us what they mean then we can only air our views.

Garry

[Tombie]

Garry gets it!

[TerryO]

Garry - good to see that dead horse you spoke about earlier sprang back to life for you. .... :angel: ;)


As I have said previously it's not up to LR to determine what is deemed in a legal sense as being off road in Australia or not and where the road laws apply or don't.
That is the responsibility of the relevant government in that jurisdiction to write the applicable laws, then the police to enforce them and the courts to determine if the police got it right and if there is a penalty or not.

[Tombie]

And Terry is right too.. But missing the context between the 2 I think.

Now combine our laws (which state towing limits are as specified by manufacturer) and then the specified limits by LR and you arrive at 3500kg on road and 1000kg off road as specified (and therefore subject to government laws)

What we are trying to then uncover is: if pretty much all roads, tracks and beaches are gazetted then how does this apply?

Does offroad mean crown land that isn't mapped with official roads?

As stated, on private land the game changes...

So what is the LR definition? If it's for warranty purposes or structural purposes what should we be aware of?

:)

[discotwinturbo]

Offroad to me is low range.

I guess we all have different definitions.

Brett....

[TerryO]

I'm not missing anything, the discussion started off about whether Barry's statement about it being illegal tow a 1000 kg off road is correct or not. I then asked for proof to back up the comment, which to date has not been forth coming apart from various opinions. Other discussions about warranties etc are a side bar.

Doing something that voids a warranty does not mean it is illegal, breaking the road laws is, where in the road laws does it say its illegal to tow a trailer off road that weighs more than a 1000 kg with your D3/4? If there is written actual proof, not bush lawyer opinion, that it is breaking the law then I will gladly accept it.

And I'm sure a number of others who tow off road camper trailers (with over ride brakes) that weigh more than 1000 kg with their D3/4 would also like to know if they are breaking the law, which also includes Barry with his camper that he tows off road. I tow a caravan off road which has electric breaks so according to the LR hand book, it doesn't apply if you take the document literally.

[Graeme]

If it's for warranty purposes..Either that or so that LR can better distance themselves if something goes awry, blaming the driver for not staying within LR's constraints.

[Epic pooh]

It's also a potential out for an insurer.

[Tombie]

It's also a potential out for an insurer.


Agree... Hypothetically:

If towing on an "offroad" (let's say Anne Beadell) gazetted highway with over 1,000kg on the back and you hit a wash out and the chassis suffered damage I suggest it could get rather interesting...

Legal minds would need to muse on that one, and I bet any manufacturer has deeper pockets for their legal team than I do...

[Redback]

Going on your theory Terry, then towing over 3500kg is OK as well;)

[TerryO]

There is a clear difference which is obvious, the 3.5 ton on road towing limit is often stated by the RTA and other State and Territory regulatory authorities across the board as the max limit for towing for most reasonably large 4x4's, as it is for Discovery's.

Again where does the RTA or the police say its illegal to tow over 1000 kg off road with a Disco?

[Redback]

There is a clear difference which is obvious, the 3.5 to limit is often stated by the RTA and other State and Territory regulatory authorities across the board as the max limit for towing for most reasonably large 4x4's, as it is for Discovery's.

Again where does the RTA or the police say its illegal to tow over 1000 kg off road with a Disco?

Don't know, as I said, only seen both in the owners manual, I have been ignoring it since we've had our camper anyway:cool:

In England they have a 4000kg limit?? if you have the Land Rover heavy duty tow pack, which I believe is what we get here?? just hasn't been converted to the Aust wiring pattern(large black and white plugs) instead LRA just add a 7 pin plug for our market.

But that's for another day.

One thing I do know for sure, LR Assist and VW Assist, take there definition of offroad from the local towing agent they use, with both saying that if it's in a National Park, that's what they deem as offroad(that was quoted to us by both)

[stray dingo]

Offroad to me is low range.

I guess we all have different definitions.

Brett....

The manual also says "to avoid overheating the gearbox, it is not advisable to tow heavy trailer loads at speeds of less than 32km/h in High range. Select Low range instead."

:)