The Chilean Schindlers list

[bob10]

Makes you realise how lucky we are , living here, Bob


https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/24790262/chilean-schindlers-list-saved-leftists-from-regime/

[Chucaro]

Yes Bob, and the Australian people have to read more about the dark decades in South America so it will never be allowed to happen here.
Back in the 50's we in my mother country never think that things like this can happen but did :(
Australia now it is so close to what was Uruguay in the 50's that it is not funny.
The introduced laws in Qld and proposed in Tasmania are an example and not to mention the one proposed at federal level. All of them are far "to open" and can be used for many purposes.
The intention od separation of classes and also the "Team Australia" is another complement to the above proposed laws.

[PhilipA]

You know my impressions of Modern Chile are that they still have problems with communist ? or leftist agitation which really seems to affect everyday life.
In the short time I was there I witnessed university student demonstrations that disrupted traffic but didn't seem to be put down harshly by the authorities.

The buildings in the old city of Santiago all have shutters that are closed every night . The Student quarter is covered in graffiti and looks down.

I witnessed a march outside our hotel and leading to the Plaza Des Armes which shut down the city centre by miners from the North agitating for a pay rise. The police did not appear to disrupt it.

There are lots of police around in central Santiago and as a result you can walk around at night safely, and there is night entertainment in Plaza des Armes .
I sometimes wonder whether the left aggrandise communists and nihilists who are intent on destroying institutions. There is no excuse for disappearing people but to claim that all these were saints and had not done any wrong is just fantasy.
That is my observation.
Regards Philip A

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ...............
I sometimes wonder whether the left aggrandise communists and nihilists who are intent on destroying institutions. There is no excuse for disappearing people but to claim that all these were saints and had not done any wrong is just fantasy.
That is my observation.
Regards Philip A

As an offensive as if someone say that the Gypsies or Jewish who died during the prosecution by the Nazis were not good people. :mad:
I cannot find words to describe your position about this issue, it is repulsive to say the least. :mad:

[bob10]

You know my impressions of Modern Chile are that they still have problems with communist ? or leftist agitation which really seems to affect everyday life.
In the short time I was there I witnessed university student demonstrations that disrupted traffic but didn't seem to be put down harshly by the authorities.

The buildings in the old city of Santiago all have shutters that are closed every night . The Student quarter is covered in graffiti and looks down.

I witnessed a march outside our hotel and leading to the Plaza Des Armes which shut down the city centre by miners from the North agitating for a pay rise. The police did not appear to disrupt it.

There are lots of police around in central Santiago and as a result you can walk around at night safely, and there is night entertainment in Plaza des Armes .
I sometimes wonder whether the left aggrandise communists and nihilists who are intent on destroying institutions. There is no excuse for disappearing people but to claim that all these were saints and had not done any wrong is just fantasy.
That is my observation.
Regards Philip A


Did you go into the country, & talk to The people? And who said they were all saints? Only you. Your observation is fatally flawed. Bob


A Chilean Dictator's Dark Legacy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/10/AR2006121000302.html)

[PhilipA]

On Sept. 7, the FPMR attempted to assassinate Pinochet as he was
driven to Santiago from his country retreat. He escaped unharmed when his
driver sped from the scene in reverse. Five bodyguards were killed and 12 were
wounded. In retaliation, security agents abducted four communists from their
homes and killed them. More than 50 leftists were arrested. The government
declared a state of siege.

As I said not angels.
Regard sPhilip A

[PhilipA]

Throughout his later years, Pinochet retained loyal supporters, who credited
his government with instituting a fiscal discipline that helped make Chile's
economy the region's strongest. But he lost many of those backers after
multiple probes in recent years revealed financial corruption, including the
discovery of millions of dollars in state funds held in numerous secret
overseas accounts, among them several at the former Riggs Bank in Washington.
As recently as October, Chilean investigators announced the discovery of 10
tons of gold, worth an estimated $160 million, in Pinochet's name in a Hong
Kong bank.
And several of the people I did speak to still regard him as the reason for Chile's relative success compared to other South American countries. Its a bit hard to speak to too many people in Chile as it the most "Spanish" monolingual country I have ever visited, including Spain., and I don't speak Spanish.
Regards Philip A

[bob10]

Bob Marley-Don't worry be happy - YouTube

[Chucaro]

And several of the people I did speak to still regard him as the reason for Chile's relative success compared to other South American countries. Its a bit hard to speak to too many people in Chile as it the most "Spanish" monolingual country I have ever visited, including Spain., and I don't speak Spanish.
Regards Philip A

Yes, there are also evil and scam low life people that speak good of Hitler, Gaddafi, Idi Amin, etc .
It is a result of ignorance or a fascist ideology which it is not hold high regards by those that appreciate human life and values.

[PhilipA]

Chucaro, you know that comments like that to the 'reasonable man" would imply that I am in that category.
When you play the man rather than the issue you have already lost the debate.
There is very little commonality between Pinochet and Hitler, seeing Pinochet stayed on in the government and loosened up after the communist purge.
Lets remember that you are proposing that somehow Australia is becoming like Chile. Well Chile is now probably the most economically successful country in South America, and the middle class people I spoke to seem to consider this as overall a good thing. You know pensions can be paid, police forces paid for etc, there are not riots anymore . Chile also exports lots of stuff to the USA .That sort of stuff.

I am reminded of many immigrants who come to Australia from places like Italy and Greece, and remember conditions when they left, not realising that those countries are now completely different from when they left.

Let's consider why the government is reducing civil liberties in Australia. Something about ISIS I believe. Maybe it is preferable under "loss of cvil Liberties" to have cells of terrorists exist undiscovered until a Suicide Bomber blows himself up in Sydney Town hall Station.

Regards Philip A

[slug_burner]

Allende was elected, he was deposed due to the difficult conditions the people were having to live in. Some of those difficulties were as a result of the USA imposing sanctions. The conditions were difficult there were shortages of some of the basic things, people marched out into the streets and defied the police and military to take over, these people marching were mothers and wives beating on their empty cooking pots. The people that held a socialist president up as a Messiah were not pleased. Why the right wing military disappeared people I don't fully understand other than it was akin to a civil war. Were the curfews and restrictions of movement necessary? Some would agree that it is one way to stabilise a country when there are people within that would overturn the regime that is in power. Others would see this simply as suppressing the people into accepting the new order.

Whichever way you think things happen particularly when people are prepared to use violence to achieve their goals.

Chile has usually being one of the most cosmopolitan South American countries with the rule of law and democracy as strong corner stones of society, before Pinochet and hopefully after. Even without oil like some other countries in South America the economy has been ok, probably due to the lawful society and stability of governments unlike some of it's neighbours where government can change two or three times within one year.

Chucaro, not sure that the socialist ideals are ever going to be more than an ideal. I would hate to have had to live in Eastern Europe after the WWII and Russia does not look that attractive at the moment.

[Chucaro]

Chucaro, you know that comments like that to the 'reasonable man" would imply that I am in that category.
When you play the man rather than the issue you have already lost the debate.
.................................................. .................................................. ........
Regards Philip A
Have you read my posts, have you try to analyze what was my live experience under that regimens by reading my posts?
If yes and understood them, then yes, I played the man without any kind of reservations what so ever in the same manner that a gypsies or any other victims of the Nazis will respond to any person that defends Hitler :mad:
Your luck of sensitivity does not leave any room for a debate. :mad:


You got it now?

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ........
Chucaro, not sure that the socialist ideals are ever going to be more than an ideal. I would hate to have had to live in Eastern Europe after the WWII and Russia does not look that attractive at the moment.

Forget about socialists or extreme right ideas, the issue in Chile, Uruguay, Brasil and other Latin American countries were oppression to a level that people say NO MORE!
In some of the countries elected a government and it was removed by force in the case of Chile and in others the people protested and the constitution was not respected by the governments declaring a dictatorship.
I am not and never like communism and in Uruguay communism never have any political influence.
There were 2 big parties back then like here in Australia and in both people on the moderate left and others in the right.
The extreme right took over in the party in government and then the rest was history.
When you talk about socialism, remember Brasil, since the last 2 socialists governments more than 35 million people are out of poverty but there is heaps more to be done to repair the damage done to the lower classes after more than 100 years ruling by extreme right, dictators or the army.

Cheers

[slug_burner]

I don't know how much oppression played a role in Chile. I suspect that if you are one of the have nots you will feel oppressed. One of the basic problems of society is to keep everyone feeling like they have an opportunity to improve their situation. Once people feel that they have no hope it is easy for them to be subverted into action including violence.