More evidence scientists or people never look at all the information

[boa]

A dermatologist has said people with different skin colour has different levels of chances for skin cancer and melanoma. Drop the slip slop slap. I have seen it before, a person has an Idea or thoughts and only looks for supporting evidence. That's were modern science has lost all credit. I worked with people who had a very passionate view but it limited there objective view. Passion and you believe you are right has no place in science.

[Toxic_Avenger]

[citation needed]
As a scientist (BBiomedSc) I'd like to know more.

[Ausfree]

A dermatologist has said people with different skin colour has different levels of chances for skin cancer and melanoma. Drop the slip slop slap. I have seen it before, a person has an Idea or thoughts and only looks for supporting evidence. That's were modern science has lost all credit. I worked with people who had a very passionate view but it limited there objective view. Passion and you believe you are right has no place in science.

So let me get this right............you are saying because one dermatologist has an opinion on something and you have seen other people with opinions on something you then draw a long bow and say modern science has lost ALL credit.???????????????:confused:

Please explain!!!!!!!:unsure:

[Chucaro]

Someone will come with a comment about a vaccine for skin cancer and melanoma :D
I just wonder if we are going to reach 100 posts in this one :angel:

[vnx205]

"More evidence scientists or people never look at all the information" probably makes a good subject line if you want to attract people's attention.

However, a more realistic headline would be, "A piece of evidence that some people don't always look at all the evidence".

A claim that scientists never look at all the available evidence might be a bit hard to substantiate.

[Toxic_Avenger]

If people want to get their nerd on, here's a paper from 1979!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2010011/pdf/brjcancer00142-0003.pdf

The melanin/melanoma relationship is not new news, for the record.
Back in 1979, it was believed that whites were 3 times more likely to get malignant melanoma. "There was a clear negative correlation between skin pigmentation and incidence of melanoma". There is likely thousands of newer, just as noteworthy academic studies out there to support this notion. Whatever said dermatologist states (as per the OP), I can only hope that he is across the current literature to make such a statement. Just because they are a doctor, doesn't mean they speak the absolute truth.


As for scientists 'not considering all variables' it should be noted that science is the application of the scientific method- hypothesize, test, draw conclusions, analyze results and re-test. It's an organic, perpetually evolving pursuit.
Perhaps the white person's inability to dance, jump, or play basketball predisposes them to a higher risk? Science is there to ask these questions, investigate them, and report back for other minds to ponder. We look at the trends, we identify anomalies, and draw conclusions backed up by facts. Peer reviewed science directs further investigation, and builds on collective knowledge to piece together the puzzles that we are faced with.

I can assure you, science is not the place for an idle mind to stay content with the status quo.

[boa]

I tried to post before but it failed. For me and I have seen it, some scientists do have an agenda. That Is for there own benefit.

m.adelaidenow.com.au

<junk deleted>


SA News

Dermatologist Douglas Czarnecki says ‘Slip Slop Slap’ skin cancer campaign should be dumped, focusing on wrinkle fear is more effective

BRAD CROUCH MEDICAL REPORTERTHE ADVERTISERAUGUST 24, 2014*11:07PM

****

Remember the sunburn?

THE famous ‘Slip, Slop, Slap’ skin cancer campaign has failed and should be dumped, a dermatologist claims.

The Cancer Council immediately dismissed the criticism as ‘one author’s opinion’ — but conceded he was correct in noting their statistics hailing it a success do not take into account Australia’s changing ethnic mix.

Dr Douglas Czarnecki says figures used to support the campaign’s success are skewed and the campaign is further compromised by “vested interests” seeking funding grants.

Immigration by dark-skinned migrants and their subsequent children has not been taken into account in the data, and a more effective campaign would be to warn young people about the dangers of wrinkles, he said.

Dr Czarnecki has had research published in a dermatology journal challenging reports that the incidence of melanoma is decreasing in the young Australian population.

The Melbourne dermatologist said the increase in migrants regarded as at low risk of skin cancer means data comparing melanoma rates in the early 1980s with now is not comparing like with like.

Low-risk people are defined as those born in Asia, the Pacific Islands, the Middle East or sub-Saharan Africa, or had parents born in these regions, he said.

“There was a significant increase in the number of young Australians at low risk for melanoma in the past 30 years,” Dr Czarnecki said, citing Australian Bureau of Statistics data.

“If these people are not included when calculating the crude rate of melanoma, the rate increased from 5.9 per 100,000 in 1982 to 6.3 in 2009.

“If the estimated number of young Maoris and young Aborigines is excluded from the susceptible population, the crude rate increased from 6.0 per 100,000 in 1982 to 6.8 in 2009.”

Dr Czarnecki noted immigration data shows country of origin but not ethnicity.

“The Slip, Slop, Slap campaign is flawed and it should not be continued,” he told*The Advertiser.

“It is being promoted by vested interests who use its claimed success to seek funding.

“I deal with patients, and while most have vaguely heard of it they don’t know what it actually means — they might use sunscreen but they won’t wear unfashionable clothing and don’t want to wear hats because it messes up their hair.

“A much more effective campaign, backed by research here and among US college students, would be to show young people that sunscreen and sun protection stops wrinkles — it should focus on people’s vanity because that works.”

Cancer Council Australia public health committee chair Craig Sinclair said Slip, Slop, Slap had been a remarkable success in changing behaviour.

“We now have an entire generation of parents looking after their children based on the messages from the campaign,” he said.

“This is just one author’s opinion — there are many others who regard the campaign as a huge success in reducing skin cancer rates in younger people.”

Mr Sinclair agreed there had been a substantial increase in immigrants at low risk of skin cancer due to dark skin but said these figures were not statistically significant.

The Slip, Slop, Slap campaign doesn’t work and should be dumped, a dermatologist says.

****

<irrelevant news post deleted>

[vnx205]

a more effective campaign would be to warn young people about the dangers of wrinkles

I thought that there was quite a bit of evidence that telling young people what will happen to them when they get old didn't work very well.

It seems that young people have trouble grasping the idea that they will be old one day or else they believe that "getting old" is so far in the future that they can just ignore it.

[Mick_Marsh]

Ah, yes, the pinnacle of peer reviewed scientific journals, "Adelaide Now".

I'm just off to read the latest crime statistics in the latest Batman comic.

[jerryd]

^^ Wouldn't be this one would it Mick ;)

Rare copy of Superman comic fetches &#36;3.5m (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/offbeat/2014/08/26/rare-copy-of-superman-comic-fetches--3-5m.html?cid=BP_CAROUSEL_NEWS_rare-copy-of-superman-fetches-huge-price_2608)

[JamesB71]

Yes... As a scientist myself I agree, that one citation from that one example you heard about speaks for us all. We had a meeting and hes the guy...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

A dermatologist has said people with different skin colour has different levels of chances for skin cancer and melanoma. Drop the slip slop slap. I have seen it before, a person has an Idea or thoughts and only looks for supporting evidence. That's were modern sciencemedicine has lost all credit. I worked with people who had a very passionate view but it limited there objective view. Passion and you believe you are right has no place in science medicine.You do realise that a dermatologist is a specialist medical practitioner not a "scientist" per se, while medicine uses scientific methods there is a significant difference between the two.

There are many scientists in medicine and many medical practitioners are also medical scientists, but most medical practitioners are not scientists. I won't go into the difference between a medical doctor and a PhD doctor.

By definition a dermatologist focuses their practice on one single organ "the skin".

My other comments have already been covered by other members.

[SlowRide]

I have seen it before, a person has an Idea or thoughts and only looks for supporting evidence.

That's because you always find what you're looking for.

And suddenly all the subsequent evidence they find only bolsters their original stance on the opinion. Then they start finding people who concur with this opinion, start trying to convince others, formally and informally create groups based on opinion agreement, start dismissing people who disagree with this opinion, and slowly move away from objective reasoning or the ability to consider or adapt to new opinions. Then ten years goes by, 20 years goes by... the longer the opinion is unquestioned the closer it comes to being a fact/belief. Sometimes it never gets challenged. And sometimes someone smarter comes along and debunks the opinion with their own collection of evidence. Now go back to the start of this paragraph and begin the cycle again.


Unfortunately for humans it's impossible to know all the information - even in just one field of specialty. Just look at climate science. We all have an opinion on the topic, but if you sat down with a piece of paper and wrote what you actually know about the subject and how the whole system works (without cheating or Googling) you'd realise how many assumptions we're operating with.

[vnx205]

That may be true, but the situation is not as hopeless as you suggest.

While one researcher may be a bit blinkered, you can bet that there are a dozen others keen to make a name for themselves by looking at the situation differently to prove him wrong.

Surely there is more kudos and more satisfaction to be gained by proving someone (or everyone else) is wrong rather than just helping to prove they are right.

What you say might describe an individual, but it doesn't describe the whole community, particularly the scientific community.

[korg20000bc]

I love the distinction present in the thread title- scientists OR people.

It's something I've always known but never been able to articulate before.
:)

[isuzurover]

As stated - the guy in question is not a scientist.

The other thing people are forgetting here, is that even when interviewing "real" scientists, the media rarely gets it right. I don't think I have ever done an interview that is reported accurately!



Yes... As a scientist myself I agree, that one citation from that one example you heard about speaks for us all. We had a meeting and hes the guy...

I don't recall getting an invite to this meeting...?