Knocking Noise When Puma 110 Idling; Goes Away When Clutch Depressed

[MY LANDY]

G'Day All

I'd much prefer to be posting updates on a trip or a successful improvement to the 2008 110. Alas, I'm back seeking technical advice...

Returned from a trip out to the Snowy Mountains this morning and noticed a rather alarming knocking noise when idling at traffic lights in neutral, clutch released.

I pulled over as soon as I could, let the 110 idle and lifted the bonnet. Initially I thought it might have been a loose casing somewhere, but upon listening for the noise with the bonnet up I realised the knock is actually coming from around the clutch/gearbox.

The noise goes away when I depress the clutch pedal, and will come back when the clutch is again released in neutral.

I had the original clutch replaced a couple of years back – like most early Puma owners! – and have read plenty of threads here and on other forums about the issues there. Unlike the first time the clutch went (that horrible rattle and difficulty changing gears) this noise is better described as a knock and there is no problem driving the car. As I said, only when idling in neutral.

I did trawl up a few threads on Ford sites describing similar sounds, but with no real conclusive leads on causes (mentions of clutch release bearing, input shaft bearing or a bearing inside the gearbox itself, centre bearing in the DMF... which I don't think the Puma has, right?)

Pretty desperate as the Landy is my daily drive and I've been squirrelling away to make other improvements, not deal with another busted clutch. We'll keep the glass half full for now!

As always, appreciate the bloody unreal learning and wisdom passed on here on AULRO. Thank you.

Jethro

[101RRS]

My guess is clutch release bearing BUT I recently had the same symptom on another make and replaced the clutch release bearing and the spigot bush and the noise is still there - guess it shows how much I know :(.

[MY LANDY]

Thanks Garrycol – I did notice while in 5th and 6th gear the gear stick would sometimes make a vibrating sound. Found on another thread that it is sometimes the cause of weights at the base of the stick (?) so it could be unrelated.

Can an mechanical novice get at the clutch release bearing or is this a bigger job best left to the experts?

[101RRS]

Can an mechanical novice get at the clutch release bearing or is this a bigger job best left to the experts?

Normally means splitting the engine and gearbox - then while apart might as well do the clutch.

[BilboBoggles]

When you switch the engine off does it go thunk thunk thunk like a noisey dog shaking until it stops? (I'm thinking it's just loose springs in the clutch plate).


I bet if you put the transfer case in neutral, main box in 5th and let the clutch out it makes a god awful rattling sound, pointing to worn/failed springs in the cluthc plate.

[Bundalene]

This is a classic symptom of a failing layshaft bearing in the R380. I assume the 6 speed may be the same.



Erich

[MY LANDY]

When you switch the engine off does it go thunk thunk thunk like a noisey dog shaking until it stops? (I'm thinking it's just loose springs in the clutch plate).


I bet if you put the transfer case in neutral, main box in 5th and let the clutch out it makes a god awful rattling sound, pointing to worn/failed springs in the cluthc plate.

Nah Bilbo, only noticeable when idling in neutral with clutch released. Once clutch is depressed it disappears. I had the springs and clutch plate go last time, but this time around it is more of a knocking sound than a rattle. Thanks for your insights though, mate.

[wrinklearthur]

This is a classic symptom of a failing layshaft bearing in the R380. I assume the 6 speed may be the same.

I would agree with Erich about this :(.
.

[MY LANDY]

Only other observations I should note are:

> I did notice while in 5th and 6th on the highway (between 90km and 110km) the gear stick would sometimes make a significant vibrating sound, almost as though the engine was under strain. Found on another thread that it is sometimes the cause of weights at the base of the stick (?) so it could be unrelated.

> I had a BAS remap last year to turn off faulty EGR. Possible that the new file (and driver) could be placing additional strain on engine/gearbox? I generally only use 6th when getting up over 90km on highway (95km-110km... and maybe creep a little high on occasion). Certainly respect that this is a Landy and drive it accordingly, not flogging it.

[defrover]

Just wondering if you've found the cause of the knocking sound..

Sure as **** my my12 started doing the same thing and I immediately started thinking of the clutch rattle that so many others have spoke about.. But like you said, it doesn't affect driving what so ever and only makes the noise when in neutral and clutch out.

Still under warranty so ill call the dealer tomorrow and find out what it is.. hopefully get it fixed no dramas.

[MY LANDY]

G'Day Defrover.

Mate, I've been under the bonnet, under the car, online ('cyberchondriac'), in the manuals... you name it. Still no closer to identifying the problem.

Driving has still not been impacted – gear changes, drive train etc still all still feeling as though they are functioning fine. But the 'knock-knock-knock' is still there.

I've bitten the bullet and got Ward and the boys at Graeme Cooper taking a look at it on Monday. Will report back. They replaced the original factory clutch a couple of years back. This sounds very different and has none of the clutch/gear performance issues I experienced back then (clutch was brown bread).

Until then,

I will remain,

Bloody optimistic!

[defrover]

Cheers for the info… Yeah I'm same same it doesn't feel like it anything serious but I too will be taking it in to the dealer to get it checked out. It'll be interesting to hear if we get the same answers…. Who knows what the dealer will try and tell me

[tyne]

I had a similar noise coming from under one of my past defenders, all I did was give the fast peddle a little pump and the noise would fade out and I just continued living and driving.
Let us all know how you go.

[MY LANDY]

Update:

So after three days in with the fellas at Graeme Cooper, we're no closer to knowing what's the root cause of the knocking noise. It's definitely coming from the box. Looks like we're going to have to pull it out to know more.

On that note, anyone got a hoist, crane, some spare time and an appetite for mentoring a novice wannabe self-sufficient mechanic in Sydney area? The 110 has fleeced me of most of me dough in the past couple of years, yet I still dread the thought of having to get rid of it, so I'd prefer to learn the ropes of maintaining and repairing it myself, however many years than may take.

As a side note, I was experiencing some issues with the idle of the truck, suddenly stalling while idling at lights. Looks like I got algae or some other gunk in the fuel tank, getting sucked up and caught in the filter. Have always made a point of topping up with Caltex Vortex where possible, obviously a little tougher when in remote areas.

Anyone had any experience with this?

[alittlebitconcerned]

My mechanic tells me it's the clutch and not to worry about it.
It been knocking for 2.5yrs and it doesnt affect the clutch operation as far as I can tell.

[Shane]

Hi there, just wondering if you were able to resolve the issue with the knocking noise? I have a 110 2011 with the same problem.

[MY LANDY]

G'day Shane

Unfortunately I haven't managed to iron this one out yet.

As previously mentioned on this thread, I had the clutch plate springs go in mine a couple of years back and the guys at Graeme Cooper Land Rover here in Sydney replaced it with what was apparently an improved clutch. This latest knock/rattle sounds different, as is the impact on driving – I started to get other gear change issues last time, whereas now the car drives fine.

Having recently had the blokes at GC drive and listen to the car again they came to the conclusion that short of dropping the box (big, costly job) they were lost as to a specific cause.

I've decided to continue to drive mine and pay close attention to any changes. I have exchanged info with alittlebitconcerned (above), and as he says, he has been driving his '08 SVX for a couple of years with the same symptoms. Similar story when I mentioned the noise to Daniel (Mulgo/The Expedition Centre), who's continued to drive his 110 Puma with the what appears to be the same knocking sound.

Doesn't exactly set me at ease, that's for sure, so my intentions are to resolve it at some point.

One thing I do note with mine is that you can really hear the knock/rattle when you place the car in neutral, release the clutch and turn off the ignition.

Got a trip planned this weekend. Packing good faith and the toolbox!

Jethro

[Shane]

Hey Jethro,

Cheers for the reply.
From what you have explained it definitely sounds like we have the same issue.
I rang 4 different Land Rover dealers today and each service manager said the same thing being that the clutch springs were probably stuffed.
Going by a few things i have read here im not entirely convinced, so tomorrow ill bet taking the car to a Land Rover specialist to see what they have to say about the noise.
Ill let you know how i go.

[Shane]

Hi there,
finally took the car in to a land rover dealer to be fixed, so far so good as i only picked it up this morning. They diagnosed the clutch as being the problem so they replaced clutch assembly. They also found that the output shaft and coupling (flange-drive) was worn so they replaced them also. The total bill was $1795 he may have looked after me a bit with the price as the warranty had not long ran out.
hope this helps.
cheers

[justinc]

Sounds like a clutch rattle/ knock to me. Typical puma trait. Some don't even see 100,000 km...also as previously mentioned you must check the shaft between box and transfer case, they are never lubricated from factory and they do strip out their internal splines. Shades of the r380 and lt77 mainshaft wear problem. They obviously were standing behind the door when someone gave out the memo from the early 90's on this problem...

Jc

[justinc]

Just to add; I have seen/ heard knocking like a big end bearing, even rattling like an exhaust baffle from these clutches. We are up to the 5th one now, and 2 stripped out spline failures of the connecting shaft between box and transfer. No vehicle had reached 150,000 km.

Jc

[rewi69]

Hi

new to the forum.
I have a Puma 110 with what I think is the same issue as MY LANDY....

Was wondering if a definitive answer was found for the noise?
Mine has been doing it for a while now and recently started to get noisier.
Wondering if its time to do something about it.

Thanks for any help.

[MY LANDY]

If ya happen to find/develop a permanent solution to uprating these clutches, JC, please send word, mate. Mine is still rattling as loud as ever.

rewi69, as above, still got the rattle. Given some recent major damage (self inflicted) to the engine, I'm considering addressing the clutch while at it. Will post any findings/updates here.

[LoveB]

I'm at 77tkm and mine does this. not sure why yet. sometimes does it sometimes doesnt. but goes away as soon as the clutch is pressed. it is a bit rattly.

still under warranty so contemplating getting it checked. that way even if they werent able to find anything - they would atleast have record of it and hopefully look after me after warranty :angel:

[CS78]

Mine rattle as well MY15.

I had an F6 FPV as a previous car and it had the same/similar 6 speed Getrag MT82 and suffered from the same issues. Just learned to live with it.