Cheapest Place to Buy Lifeguard 6 by the Litre

[101RRS]

Shopping around the cheapest place I have found to buy Lifeguard 6 ATF is from ZF but that is in for a 20 litre tin (about $600 delievered) - but I don't want to buy 20 litres.

The cheapest place to buy by the litre is my local auto repairer at $46 a litre. The local LR independent wants $60 at litre and the dealer $90 a litre - I think the Ford dealer is cheaper than the LR dealer but more expensive than the Indy.

So where can I buy cheap Lifeguard 6 by the litre and for what price - not interested in alternatives to the Lifeguard product.

Thanks

Garry

[justinc]

Garry, I can sell it to you at a good price but freight.... :-(
Jc

[shanemonk]

A&b in dandenong, 10litres min, $30 per litre. Pay on phone and get a courier to pick it up!

[Grappler]

Motospecs

Motospecs - Contact (http://www.motospecs.com.au/contact)

http://www.motospecs.com.au/assets/files/downloads/ZF_Lifeguard_Fluids_(Reseller).pdf
I paid about $30 per litre
They also stock ZF parts, pans. filters. metal pan conversions etc

[rocmic]

+1 for Motospecs. cost me slightly under $30 per litre last year
Cheers
Mike

[101RRS]

Thanks for the Motorspecs tip.

I just contacted them and they have no Motorspecs outlets locally. However they did say that all REPCO stores sell their products.

So I rang the local Repco store who had no idea what I was talking about but I gave them the part number 749626-1 and they looked it up and said they could sell me 3 litres immediately and bigger quantities over night.

Cost is $38 per litre.

So - there you go ZF Lifeguard 6 is sold by Repco at a price of $38 which is not too bad for a reseller.

So the markups are something like this - Cost of manufacture ????, ZF price about $28 in bulk, the Intermediary/retail $30 a litre and the onseller $38 - but the profiteers $46 up to $90 a litre. I thought the REPCO markup was a good profit but the Landrover price is a bit over the top.

Thanks to everyone for the pointers.

Cheers

Garry

[Grappler]

Thanks for the Motorspecs tip.


Thanks to everyone for the pointers.

Cheers

Garry

No worries, Garry

I should have mentioned the Repco connection. I think Motospecs is Repcos wholesale division
When I picked up my order Motospecs was a side door in a large warehouse with a Repco sign on it

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
Similar price, mine was $37 / L last week, had to buy a set amount, they only sold in 10 litre or 20 litre lots.

[Bigbjorn]

Why is this stuff so expensive? It is just a form of lubricating oil. Why is it not $3 to $5 per litre?

[LandyAndy]

Why is this stuff so expensive? It is just a form of lubricating oil. Why is it not $3 to $5 per litre?

Because EP90 is only good for crash boxes.
Andrew

[Nomad9]

Hi Brian,
Fully synthetic, agree it is "just a lubricating oil" however it is very very special oil that is protecting a $10,000 asset, which unfortunately is one of the downsides of choosing to drive the very special vehicle we do.

Best answer I have for you..................

[shanegtr]

Hi Brian,
Fully synthetic, agree it is "just a lubricating oil" however it is very very special oil that is protecting a $10,000 asset, which unfortunately is one of the downsides of choosing to drive the very special vehicle we do.

Best answer I have for you..................

I wouldn't call it a special oil, synthetics are more expensive than mineral oil as a base stock, and then you got all the additives. Like everything some are more expensive than others, and the good stuff is. So there's nothing really special about it, quality costs money in the oil world

[LandyAndy]

I wouldn't call it a special oil, synthetics are more expensive than mineral oil as a base stock, and then you got all the additives. Like everything some are more expensive than others, and the good stuff is. So there's nothing really special about it, quality costs money in the oil world

And using synthetics pays off in the long run.My D2 TD5 has had synthetic engine oil all its life with 20000km service intervals.It still uses no oil between services and although the dipstick oil looks discoloured when rubbed between your fingers it leaves no black residue.Try that on a diesel that has had mineral oils thru it.
Andrew

[scarry]

Why is this stuff so expensive? It is just a form of lubricating oil. Why is it not $3 to $5 per litre?

Don't forget it's that good you never have to change it,just ask LR:angel:

[Grappler]

Why is this stuff so expensive? It is just a form of lubricating oil. Why is it not $3 to $5 per litre?

As well as lubricating its a hydraulic oil.

Hydraulic oil require a high degree of cleanliness. I couldnt find any info on the ISO4406 (cleanliness std) for LG6, but extra filtration may add to the cost of he product?

[Bigbjorn]

Because EP90 is only good for crash boxes.
Andrew

Andrew, EP oils are used in diffs with spiral bevel gears. EP has a sulphur content for the sliding friction in these types of gears. Crash boxes and diffs with straight cut gears use a straight mineral oil. Very old crash boxes from say the 1920's and earlier used a 600W oil which is about the same viscosity as SAE140. 600W was mostly used in steam engines as a cylinder oil. Crash boxes work best with SAE50 oil. Too heavy an oil and they don't shift well until thoroughly warmed up. By crash box I mean a box with sliding gears, not a non-synchro box with dog clutch engagement which the ignorant call a crash box.

[Aaron IIA]

By crash box I mean a box with sliding gears, not a non-synchro box with dog clutch engagement which the ignorant call a crash box.

What would you call a series box with straight cut crash, constant mesh and synchromesh gears all in the one box?
Aaron

[Bigbjorn]

What would you call a series box with straight cut crash, constant mesh and synchromesh gears all in the one box?
Aaron

A pommy ****-up. Poms never could make a decent gearbox.

[101RRS]

deleted

[101RRS]

Hmmm - this is a thread about where to buy cheap ZF Lifeguard 6 and has moved on to pommie crash boxes but the original question has been answered.

Thanks to everyone who contributed on the original topic and if the discussion on crash boxes needs to continue so be it.

Cheers

garry

[Lobster]

Repco part number 749626-1 ..... ZF Lifeguard 6 is sold by Repco at a price of $38 / 1L bottle which is not too bad for a reseller.



Repco 20% off sale for all Auto Association members, but the sale ends tomorrow 31 Oct 2014.

I purchased a 20L drum, Repco Part No. 749626 for $515 @ $25.75 / litre.

Repco have these 20% of everything sales several times per year.

[Rich84]

My local auto gearbox place sells ZF branded LG6 for $30 per litre.


Main North Automatics in Prospect, SA.


Otherwise Ravenol make an LG6 spec oil that you can order from places like LRseries. I think it's about 9GBP per litre.


Nothing special about the oil itself, it's a hydrocracked base stock mixed with some PAO and a friction modifier package that was developed with Shell. ZF/Shell had sole production rights to this package and could charge whatever they wanted for it.


I agree LR charging $70-$90 per litre is extortion and just ruins any goodwill people have toward dealers.

[gedaso]

Just adding some recent information - I tried the local Motospecs (wholesaler for Repco apparently) and their price for 1L bottles of LG6 was $42. I then rang the local Repco store, thinking they'd have to be more expensive, but they only wanted $34 per litre !

[eddy]

Repco have a 25% off Sale to RAC members this weekend[13/14th Dec]This is advertised as including oils....so will try for 20litre drum of Lifeguard 6 #749626-1.In a similar vein what engine oil can I get for my D4 3.0?

[LandyAndy]

Repco have a 25% off Sale to RAC members this weekend[13/14th Dec]This is advertised as including oils....so will try for 20litre drum of Lifeguard 6 #749626-1.In a similar vein what engine oil can I get for my D4 3.0?

OI!!!!
You cant secretly go from D1 to D4 Geoff.
Pics in the pic department when you can.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/120913-show-us-your-disco-sport-please-read-first-post-first.html
ENJOY:cool:
:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[eddy]

Snow White's bastard brother MY11 Fuji White.Should be able to get a pix of it on the hoist when I change out the front control arms next week!

[Graeme]

what engine oil can I get for my D4 3.0?Castrol Magnatec Professional A5 5W-30 (A5/B5 WSS-M2C-934-C) assuming no DPF on an MY11.

Castrol Syntrax Longlife 75W90 for the front diff and the rear diff if non-locking.

[eddy]

Repco pull out the fine print re 'only on in store product' still a good deal[compared to dealer price] at $620 for the 20 litre.Will try for 10% discount for RAC membership when I pick up tomorrow!

[PhilipA]

Source ZF https://www03apps.zf.com/interoelepdf/TE-ML%2011_en0700.pdf Page 3
6HP19,
6HP19A (2) - MPL-dependent (main parts list)
6HP19X - not for Audi Q7,
6HP21, 6HP21X, 6HP26, 6HP26X,
6HP26A61 - not for vehicles equipped with Audi
W12-engine (2),
6HP28, 6HP28X, 6HP28A61,
6HP32, 6HP32A (2), 6HP32X

According to spare part number of vehicle manufacturer:
ZF Lifeguardfluid 6 (ZF No. S671 090 255)
=> AML Oil No. 4G4319A509/AA/S
=> Audi /VW Oil No. G 055005 A1 / A2 / A6
=> Bentley Oil No. PY112995PA
=> BMW Oil No. 8322 0142516
=> Hyundai Oil No. 040000C90SG
=> Jaguar Oil No. Jaguar Fluid 8432
=> Land Rover Oil No. TYK500050
=> Maserati Oil No. 231603

6HP19A (2) - MPL-dependent (main parts list)
6HP19X - for Audi Q7,
6HP26A61 - for vehicles with Audi
W12-engine (2)
6HP28AF (2)
8HP45, 8HP45X, 8HP55A (2), 8HP70,
8HP70X, 8HP90, 8HP90A (2)
9HP48

According to spare part number of vehicle manufacturer:
ZF Lifeguardfluid 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312)
=> Audi / VW Oil No. G 060162 A1 / A2 / A6 ATF
=> BMW Oil No. 8322 2152426
=> Jaguar Oil No. 02JDE 26444
=> Land Rover Oil No. LR023288
=> Chrysler Oil No. 68157995AA



5-, 6- and 8-speed as well as 4HP20 automatic transmissions:
ZF 5-, 6- and 8-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed partially
synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating
temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. It is recommended, in the event of severe operating
conditions, such as:
- frequent highway driving in top speed range,
- offensive, sporty driving style,
- frequent trailer operation,
being above average, oil purification (oil change) on automatic transmissions is recommended between 80,000 km and 120,000 km, or
8 years, depending on the load.
In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the relevant specifications

I thought I would post this from the official ZF website for you poor blokes in case some hadn't seen it particularly the change recommendations which in OZ I would think means everyone..
Lifeguard 6 is about $20 a litre for 10 litres in Czech Republic so not too bad here .
There are some alternate suppliers in Europe Eurol, and others. Hoping for it to be cheaper I googled the Hyundia oil but no luck, still the same!
Regards Philip A

[badgesnob]

Garry, I can sell it to you at a good price but freight.... :-(
Jc

Hi mate, can you quote me 6 litres of zf lg 6 plus shipping to 2200?

Regards,

[badgesnob]

Repco 20% off sale for all Auto Association members, but the sale ends tomorrow 31 Oct 2014.

I purchased a 20L drum, Repco Part No. 749626 for $515 @ $25.75 / litre.

Repco have these 20% of everything sales several times per year.


Hey mate, do you have any left that you want to get rid of?

[badgesnob]

Managed ti funh a repco voucher for 20% off, and went ti repci and bought 6litres at 28 dollars each.

Scored!

[Stuart02]

How many litres do we actually need for the 6 speed ZF?

[vbrab]

Have found Motospecs (do web search for local branch), to have best up front price for 20L drum. (and pan/filter kits)
20L drum seems to be best rate I have found when buying trans fluid, and what you have left after flush, can be used next service.
Get a good (clean/new) hand pump to get fluid into box. (Got one at Repco)

[jonesy63]

How many litres do we actually need for the 6 speed ZF?

I recently had the plastic sump/integral filter removed and steel ZF sump/separate filter installed. That took 5.5L of Lifeguard Fluid 6 to fill.

I'm about to have do another drain and fill next week - so buying another 5L and using the 0.5L left from the last effort.

Cheers,
Rob

[shanegtr]

Just ordered in 7 liters of lg6 at my local repco, $35 a litre

[hiker]

Just had my LR3 and RRS completed today and thought I'd share

After reading and researching I booked the cars in ATS Maitland (Ian) who impressed me with his 43 years of auto transmission experience and assurance that he would 'take ownership' of the servicing etc.

Apart from transmission fluids change, wanted to upgrade from plastic sump to metal sump with seperate filter - hence ...

Britpart Automatic transmission filter conversion kit http://www.britpart.com/all-parts/da2142/

Local LR parts supplier - A$465.00

Rimmer Bros UK - UK80.00 (approx $163) plus Fedex

Insisted that ATS obtain and use the ZF Lifeguard 6 - considered 'mandatory' reading the forums including disco3uk

To my surprise and trepidation I arrived to find a box of LR Transmission oil ref TYK500050

We jointly rang LR dealer at Bennetts Green and queried, plus checked the web - seems to be a repackaged ZF6 - reluctantly agreed to proceed.

Turns out the LR TYK500050 retails from the LR dealer at $90 / litre - in shock and horror I rang Repco and asked the price and availability of ZF6 - $40/ ltr available overnight - compromise reached (phew!)

Both cars now have the upgraded metal sump with seperate filter (direct from UK) and the horrendously expensive LR (ZF6) oil and I'm advised that the next transmission service should be 70,000 kms in the future.

Total costs? per car

Rimmer Bros - $232 (50% of total for both) inc Fedex
LR Oil 5 ltrs - $275
Labour - $180

Total $687

ATS Maitland to be applauded and highly recommended for their integrity and co-operation - they now have a very satisfied customer.

Hope this helps

cheers all

[crawal]

Thanks Hiker , plenty of non gen sump kits on ebay for around the $230 ish price I noticed it was a Britapart unit so not sure if to go the gen at $350 or non gen sump
We have Total oil at work and the Fluidmatic MV LV has the right specs and is around $160+ for 20 litres :D

[kenl]

If it looks to good to be true... Then.. well you know .. Good Luck

[Timmy]

Just throwing it out there as I have been looking to get the cheapest lifeguard 6 oil. BMW sell their branded version of lifeguard 6 (same as LR does their branded version, same stuff though), I can possibly get 20L for $530ish, about $25/L.
Anyone interested in going thirds in Melbourne?

[PeterOZ]

Thanks for the Motorspecs tip.

I just contacted them and they have no Motorspecs outlets locally. However they did say that all REPCO stores sell their products.

So I rang the local Repco store who had no idea what I was talking about but I gave them the part number 749626-1 and they looked it up and said they could sell me 3 litres immediately and bigger quantities over night.

Cost is $38 per litre.

So - there you go ZF Lifeguard 6 is sold by Repco at a price of $38 which is not too bad for a reseller.

So the markups are something like this - Cost of manufacture ????, ZF price about $28 in bulk, the Intermediary/retail $30 a litre and the onseller $38 - but the profiteers $46 up to $90 a litre. I thought the REPCO markup was a good profit but the Landrover price is a bit over the top.

Thanks to everyone for the pointers.

Cheers

Garry

Been trying to find somwhere that has the 20L at reasonable price, rang Motospec, will only sell it to me at their retail price which was $911 [bawl]

Can get the genuine ZF filter P/N ZP626010 for $105
and after market gasket ZPG626006 for $11.29

Will try Repco and see what they want. Might be able to get RACQ discount. Ok if I orderedmit today I'd get 20% RACQ membership but as pay day is not till next Wed week I'll only get 10% discount as the 20% runs out today.
$689.40 or $34.47 / L which is not too bad.

[101RRS]

Just buy 20 litre drums from ZF - cheapest around. When Repco have their discount weekends, 1 litre bottles can be bought for under $30 a bottle.

[vbrab]

I have never had a problem buying direct from Motospecs and not paying $37 a litre ($589 (with GST) for 20 litres, last lot I purchased, 2 years back).
Not a lot cheaper than $37 a litre perhaps, but if you have to do a trans service it works out reasonable compared to the alternatives.
Any problem contacting Motospecs they are in NSW, WA, QLD, SA and VIC.
I'd expect most could just order from nearest branch/or state.

Google "Motospecs" and go to their home page and look at "contact us" listing.

[LR3 Disco Owner]

Okay so hello everyone, I am new to this forum and LR owing in General. I bought a 2008 TDV6 Discovery 3 at the end of June and I am generally very pleased with it. I knew it needed the brakes doing and upon purchasing it I decided I would do a service and change filters, fluids etc as well, which is when I started reading on here and on the UK LR forums about the joys of the 6HP26 transmission!

Well you can imagine my excitement after reading about shuddering transmissions, for it to then shudder as it had been watching me read about it and decided to provide a demonstration of what it was like, on take off from a set of lights!
I had a good look through the service history and receipts that came with it and identified it had had the metal pan and fluid changed at TRS back in 2014 at 116,000km with LG6 fluid and then it had a service and inspection with a 'full flush' at around 200,000km about 18 months ago.
I have since found out from the company that did the service at 200K that they used Fuchs Titan 4400 ATF.
I'm going to give some instant shudder fixx a go at first, and intend to attempt a diy mega flush or multiple changes on my own.
I have called ZF and they passed me onto Mototspec who quoted, hopefully you're sitting down, $62/L for LG6! [bawl]He also suggested Febi ATF as an alternative for $45/L.
I then talked to my local Repco and after the usual 'this is what the computer says', I got him to listen and gave him the part number from on here and low and behold it was there, good news was they were offering the LG6 at $46/L so I thought I would try my luck and see what the bulk price for 20L would be and once he picked his jaw up off the floor he managed to stammer out that 20L was $922!!!! Now compare that to say Penrite ATF BMV which is $245 for 20L and my question has to be, is the LG6 4x as good?

Also is the mega flush worth it in terms of volume of ATF used or will several changes have the same effect?

Has anyone tried using one of those drill powered pumps such as this Josco Drill Powered Pump | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/josco-drill-powered-pump_p0117229) to pump the new fluid in? I've read multiple posts about using air pressure or head pressure generated through height, but haven't found anything about using a pump.

Any thoughts on this are gladly received, especially from those using the penrite atf bmv or anyone who knows of cheaper supply of the LG6.

In the back of my mind I'm thinking if the penrite is ok, I can spend the same money as the 20L of LG6 and buy an IID tool instead![wink11]

[PerthDisco]

I did same check and repco was $41 litre or try Motospecs also who supply repco.

Worth using genuine as only every 80-100k kms.

Search for the Filo change method also on Disco3.co.uk. Seems little gain in doing the pan and filter every time.

[shanegtr]

I did same check and repco was $41 litre or try Motospecs also who supply repco.

Worth using genuine as only every 80-100k kms.

Search for the Filo change method also on Disco3.co.uk. Seems little gain in doing the pan and filter every time.
I can tell you from oil sample testing that the Filo method dosent clear nearly as much of the old fluid out as you'd hope. (see my post here: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-d3-d4-sticky-zone/125041-disco-3-4-automatic-transmission-faq-6-speed-16.html#post2959971) I put through nearly 20L's of penrite BMV and there was still a decent concentration of LG6 in my trans. My thoughts now are simply more regular changes at service time. Not such and issue with a brand new trans with under 50-70,000km on it, but defiantly worth considering after that time frame.

[LR3 Disco Owner]

Yeah there is a definite highlands tax here, might try Repco Campbelltown as often they are less than down here. Motospecs at Glendenning was the one who quoted me $62/L, even the bloke I talked to sounded surprised.

Good news is, just did the Instant Shudder Fixx and it appears to have lived up to its name. I attempted to recreate where it had done it in the past, but not a sausage.
The fluid I took out with a syringe was very clean, although its only done around 8000km since the last flush so I might wait a bit and start saving for the inevitable rebuild instead[bighmmm]

[LR3 Disco Owner]

I can tell you from oil sample testing that the Filo method dosent clear nearly as much of the old fluid out as you'd hope. (see my post here: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-d3-d4-sticky-zone/125041-disco-3-4-automatic-transmission-faq-6-speed-16.html#post2959971) I put through nearly 20L's of penrite BMV and there was still a decent concentration of LG6 in my trans. My thoughts now are simply more regular changes at service time. Not such and issue with a brand new trans with under 50-70,000km on it, but defiantly worth considering after that time frame.

Yes I have read many of your posts on the analysis of the fluids and the options for changing the fluid, they have been very useful. What mileage are you up to now with the BMV and have you had any issues with it?

[PerthDisco]

I can tell you from oil sample testing that the Filo method dosent clear nearly as much of the old fluid out as you'd hope. (see my post here: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-d3-d4-sticky-zone/125041-disco-3-4-automatic-transmission-faq-6-speed-16.html#post2959971) I put through nearly 20L's of penrite BMV and there was still a decent concentration of LG6 in my trans. My thoughts now are simply more regular changes at service time. Not such and issue with a brand new trans with under 50-70,000km on it, but defiantly worth considering after that time frame.

Any ATF drop/change is only changing 50/60% so it’s only that Filo is easy and quick to do it on a repeating basis to keep the fluid ‘fresh’ rather than new. Less of a problem if not changing from ZF6. Filo plus pan drain maybe is even better. I like the idea of pushing in exactly what you take out as a simple way of changing.

Seems there is little evidence the filter needs changing after the first change to steel pan avoiding that messy part of the process.

[PerthDisco]

ZF LIFEGUARD FLUID 6 20L FULL SYNTHETIC OIL ZF 6HP26 FORD / RANGE ROVER/ BMW | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/192183986637)

$595 / 20 litres


Based in Hallam Victoria be good to buy 50/50 with someone in each state.

[shanegtr]

Yes I have read many of your posts on the analysis of the fluids and the options for changing the fluid, they have been very useful. What mileage are you up to now with the BMV and have you had any issues with it?
Im up to around 33,000km since I started using BMV. No issues so far.

[shanegtr]

Any ATF drop/change is only changing 50/60% so it’s only that Filo is easy and quick to do it on a repeating basis to keep the fluid ‘fresh’ rather than new. Less of a problem if not changing from ZF6. Filo plus pan drain maybe is even better. I like the idea of pushing in exactly what you take out as a simple way of changing.

Seems there is little evidence the filter needs changing after the first change to steel pan avoiding that messy part of the process.
I was referring to doing several of these drains and refills in a row. My initially I dropped the pan to put in a new filter, then refilled, ran engine to pump out trans oil, refilled - repeat until I'd nearly gone through all my 20L drum. After all that there was still a decent concentration of LG6 so your not pumping out as much from the system as you'd hope. I'm basically doing a quick change at every service now.

[LR3 Disco Owner]

If only Victoria wasn't a basket case I'd drive down and get it!

I did check Ebay previously but didn't see that one, thanks for that

[PerthDisco]

I was referring to doing several of these drains and refills in a row. My initially I dropped the pan to put in a new filter, then refilled, ran engine to pump out trans oil, refilled - repeat until I'd nearly gone through all my 20L drum. After all that there was still a decent concentration of LG6 so your not pumping out as much from the system as you'd hope. I'm basically doing a quick change at every service now.

I was thinking for an 80,000km interval to drop what you can then let it mix up after changing for 500km then change again hoping to get at least 5 litres each time. Needing 10L of ZF 6 to start with.

[LR3 Disco Owner]

Im up to around 33,000km since I started using BMV. No issues so far.

Sounds promising on the BMV.

So when you added the new fluid were you adding it through the cooler lines as per the FILO method or through the filler hole, and were you pumping it in or using pressure, either from head pressure or by inflation?

From the Wynn's website they claim to remove the vast majority of the old fluid, so I wonder what their machine is doing differently and can it be replicated using simple control tech like arduino's etc

[shanegtr]

I was just using the filler hole on the side of the trans using a drum pump

[101RRS]

Repco has its sales on oil at least once a month - so buy the LG6 then and with a NRMA membership you will get it for less than $30 a litre - typically about $27

[LR3 Disco Owner]

Repco has its sales on oil at least once a month - so buy the LG6 then and with a NRMA membership you will get it for less than $30 a litre - typically about $27

Good idea, does that work on products that aren't kept in store? My mother-in-law is an NRMA member, I knew there was a reason I liked her![biggrin]

[101RRS]

Good idea, does that work on products that aren't kept in store? My mother-in-law is an NRMA member, I knew there was a reason I liked her![biggrin]

Yes - that is when I buy mine and stock up.

In line with the discussion above about how is the best way to do the oil change - I do a basic fluid change every 24,000km so change about 3-4 litres - just drain and fill with gearbox and the right temp and engine running. This results in complete fluid change every 100,000km or so but downside is that after the 24,000km change about 60% of the oil in the box is still used but overall is much cleaner at any given time than leaving the same oil in for 240,000km.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes - that is when I buy mine and stock up.

In line with the discussion above about how is the best way to do the oil change - I do a basic fluid change every 24,000km so change about 3-4 litres - just drain and fill with gearbox and the right temp and engine running. This results in complete fluid change every 100,000km or so but downside is that after the 24,000km change about 60% of the oil in the box is still used but overall is much cleaner at any given time than leaving the same oil in for 240,000km.

Garry

I did my gearbox valve body rebuild today and a three time flush to get most of my old fluid out but it’s not perfect by any means. Still, it’s good enough. I find I get around 5-6 litres in on a standard drain.

Like you I tend to do a drain every ~25,000km which for me is every two years.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Okay so hello everyone, I am new to this forum and LR owing in General. I bought a 2008 TDV6 Discovery 3 at the end of June and I am generally very pleased with it. I knew it needed the brakes doing and upon purchasing it I decided I would do a service and change filters, fluids etc as well, which is when I started reading on here and on the UK LR forums about the joys of the 6HP26 transmission!

Well you can imagine my excitement after reading about shuddering transmissions, for it to then shudder as it had been watching me read about it and decided to provide a demonstration of what it was like, on take off from a set of lights!
I had a good look through the service history and receipts that came with it and identified it had had the metal pan and fluid changed at TRS back in 2014 at 116,000km with LG6 fluid and then it had a service and inspection with a 'full flush' at around 200,000km about 18 months ago.
I have since found out from the company that did the service at 200K that they used Fuchs Titan 4400 ATF.
I'm going to give some instant shudder fixx a go at first, and intend to attempt a diy mega flush or multiple changes on my own.
I have called ZF and they passed me onto Mototspec who quoted, hopefully you're sitting down, $62/L for LG6! [bawl]He also suggested Febi ATF as an alternative for $45/L.
I then talked to my local Repco and after the usual 'this is what the computer says', I got him to listen and gave him the part number from on here and low and behold it was there, good news was they were offering the LG6 at $46/L so I thought I would try my luck and see what the bulk price for 20L would be and once he picked his jaw up off the floor he managed to stammer out that 20L was $922!!!! Now compare that to say Penrite ATF BMV which is $245 for 20L and my question has to be, is the LG6 4x as good?

Also is the mega flush worth it in terms of volume of ATF used or will several changes have the same effect?

Has anyone tried using one of those drill powered pumps such as this Josco Drill Powered Pump | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/josco-drill-powered-pump_p0117229) to pump the new fluid in? I've read multiple posts about using air pressure or head pressure generated through height, but haven't found anything about using a pump.

Any thoughts on this are gladly received, especially from those using the penrite atf bmv or anyone who knows of cheaper supply of the LG6.

In the back of my mind I'm thinking if the penrite is ok, I can spend the same money as the 20L of LG6 and buy an IID tool instead![wink11]

Welcome to the forum (nuthouse?)

Penrite BMV is absolutely ok as a direct replacement for LG6. Please do a full replacement and not a part drain and fill, as thats a waste of time and money imo. Did mine at ~160000km along with a valve body rebuild and zip gen2 kit, and no issues (now at 201000km).

What does work well in terms of a pump is a $10 pressure sprayer from bunnings, just modify the end with a bit of rubber hose to get it intobthe filler plug. Those pumps are good and the bottle holds enough atf to fill the transmission. Dont recommend air pressure as this can dislodge seals and blow rubbish through the vb and transmission.

[FisherX]

I use Valvoline Maxlife ATF. It's a full synthetic and compatible with the ZF boxes up to Lifeguard 8. It's cheap and you can even get it at Bunnings for $38 for 4L.

MaxLife™ Multi-Vehicle ATF : Product Catalog - Valvoline™ (https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/automatic-transmission-products/maxlife-multi-vehicle-atf)

US_Val_MLMultiVehicle_ATF_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/9e447451-fe75-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1)

Valvoline 4L Maxlife ATF Fluid | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/valvoline-4l-maxlife-atf-fluid_p0066164)

Valvoline Transmission Fluid MaxLife ATF 20L | Sparesbox (https://www.sparesbox.com.au/part/valvoline-transmission-fluid-maxlife-atf-20l-1129-2?gclid=CjwKCAjwjqT5BRAPEiwAJlBuBYB68W6w5kpHWT5AI1 8yDvdID6eMF_wi07w491wG0stqG8JkS3-tmxoCfXMQAvD_BwE)

[101RRS]

I use Valvoline Maxlife ATF. It's a full synthetic and compatible with the ZF boxes up to Lifeguard 8.

So is this Valvoline saying it is compatible or ZF saying it is compatible - there is a big difference. There have been oils in the past (Nulon comes to mind) that claimed it was compatible but was not on the ZF list - after a year or so the Nulon claim was dropped.

Interestingly Valvoline say it is compatible up to LG8 and yet LG6 is not even compatible with LG8.

The only oil I would consider as an alternative to LG6 are Ford and BMW oils that were out into their ZF and ZF clone boxes.

Garry

[Eric SDV6SE]

So is this Valvoline saying it is compatible or ZF saying it is compatible - there is a big difference. There have been oils in the past (Nulon comes to mind) that claimed it was compatible but was not on the ZF list - after a year or so the Nulon claim was dropped.

Interestingly Valvoline say it is compatible up to LG8 and yet LG6 is not even compatible with LG8.

The only oil I would consider as an alternative to LG6 are Ford and BMW oils that were out into their ZF and ZF clone boxes.

Garry

ZF clone?? Please elaborate.

BMW runs the same genuine ZF platform across several series, only difference is rwd bmws do not have the same output shafts for output into a transfer case that our 4wds need.

My original fitment ZF 6HP28 runs a bmw steel pan, filter and gasket set and the last 40,000km on penrite BMV with no issues is good enough for me to say its an acceptable alternative to LG6 fluids.

The valvoline us data sheet claims compatibility with ZF LG8 and i understand ZF LG6 is not the same as LG8 (without cross checking data sheets) in terms of viscosity.

But if it works, why not?

[PerthDisco]

My original fitment ZF 6HP28


I thought they were 26s or did they update at some point?

[101RRS]

ZF clone?? Please elaborate.



The Ford 6R80 auto transmission is made by Ford under licence from ZF and is a clone of the ZF 6HP26 as fitted to the D3s etc - the info is that casings and tolerances are not quite as good as the ZF version but still works OK - though issues have shown up in the Ranger.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I thought they were 26s or did they update at some point?

My understanding is that the early d4 2.7 came wirh the ZF6HP26. The HP28 was fitted to the 3.0l and 2.7 from 2009 on, as the HP26 was superseded by the 28. The new 8spd ZF8HP are 32 or 34 i think, the last two numbers referring to the torque rating.
There is s rating plae on the lh side of the housing that you can decode pretty easily.

[DiscoJeffster]

I thought they were 26s or did they update at some point?

3L got the 28 which is a higher torque rating capacity box

[kelvo]

My understanding is that the early d4 2.7 came wirh the ZF6HP26. The HP28 was fitted to the 3.0l and 2.7 from 2009 on, as the HP26 was superseded by the 28. The new 8spd ZF8HP are 32 or 34 i think, the last two numbers referring to the torque rating.
There is s rating plae on the lh side of the housing that you can decode pretty easily.
The 8-speeds in the D4/RRS are 8HP70 (700Nm).

[twr7cx]

My local Repco is still the cheapest place to order it in by the litre.

Second cheapest source I've found is one of the transmission shops selling through eBay bulk 6 and 8 boxes off.

[Discodicky]

Okay so hello everyone, I am new to this forum and LR owing in General. I bought a 2008 TDV6 Discovery 3 at the end of June and I am generally very pleased with it. I knew it needed the brakes doing and upon purchasing it I decided I would do a service and change filters, fluids etc as well, which is when I started reading on here and on the UK LR forums about the joys of the 6HP26 transmission!

Well you can imagine my excitement after reading about shuddering transmissions, for it to then shudder as it had been watching me read about it and decided to provide a demonstration of what it was like, on take off from a set of lights!
I had a good look through the service history and receipts that came with it and identified it had had the metal pan and fluid changed at TRS back in 2014 at 116,000km with LG6 fluid and then it had a service and inspection with a 'full flush' at around 200,000km about 18 months ago.
I have since found out from the company that did the service at 200K that they used Fuchs Titan 4400 ATF.
I'm going to give some instant shudder fixx a go at first, and intend to attempt a diy mega flush or multiple changes on my own.
I have called ZF and they passed me onto Mototspec who quoted, hopefully you're sitting down, $62/L for LG6! [bawl]He also suggested Febi ATF as an alternative for $45/L.
I then talked to my local Repco and after the usual 'this is what the computer says', I got him to listen and gave him the part number from on here and low and behold it was there, good news was they were offering the LG6 at $46/L so I thought I would try my luck and see what the bulk price for 20L would be and once he picked his jaw up off the floor he managed to stammer out that 20L was $922!!!! Now compare that to say Penrite ATF BMV which is $245 for 20L and my question has to be, is the LG6 4x as good?

Also is the mega flush worth it in terms of volume of ATF used or will several changes have the same effect?

Has anyone tried using one of those drill powered pumps such as this Josco Drill Powered Pump | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/josco-drill-powered-pump_p0117229) to pump the new fluid in? I've read multiple posts about using air pressure or head pressure generated through height, but haven't found anything about using a pump.

Any thoughts on this are gladly received, especially from those using the penrite atf bmv or anyone who knows of cheaper supply of the LG6.

In the back of my mind I'm thinking if the penrite is ok, I can spend the same money as the 20L of LG6 and buy an IID tool instead![wink11]

I flushed and changed the auto oil using Penrite BMV in my 8 speed ZF at 102,000 klms and have now done 136,000 k's with no probs at all.
Also added Wynns auto oil supplement as I have had excellent results with it over the years.
Many others on this Forum are also using BMV.
With much respect to all, seeing that BMV is (one of the few oils) available which has proven to be a genuine substitute for Lifeguard ZF6/8 I can't understand why you'd consider Lifeguard at such stupidly outrageous prices.

[twr7cx]

I flushed and changed the auto oil using Penrite BMV in my 8 speed ZF at 102,000 klms and have now done 136,000 k's with no probs at all.
Also added Wynns auto oil supplement as I have had excellent results with it over the years.
Many others on this Forum are also using BMV.
With much respect to all, seeing that BMV is (one of the few oils) available which has proven to be a genuine substitute for Lifeguard ZF6/8 I can't understand why you'd consider Lifeguard at such stupidly outrageous prices.

My thoughts to this:
1. You've used Wynns additive which is designed to change the oil/fluid. So if you've used the right stuff, why mix in an additive that's going to change it? It's now not properly the right stuff. Surely if Wynns had created some amazing product large companies like ZF would have got on board?
2. My concern with the Penrite BMV, and the reason why I've stayed with genuine ZF despite using a large number of Penrite's other products is that it replaces both LF6 and 8 - they're not the same product as each other, so therefore the Penrite mustn't be exactly the same as them either...
3. You've mentioned the extra cost of going the genuine route - two thoughts on this: 1. negligible compared to the cost of a replacement transmission, 2. if your cost conscious why then spend the extra on that Wynns additive too?

[DiscoJeffster]

Can’t agree more. Adding anything to the oil changes it, so saying BMV works then adulterating it completely defeats any previous evidence and the experience of others. You’re now in uncharted territory.

[Dagilmo]

I did a drop and refill a few months ago (90K on the clock) and agonized over BMV vs LG8. I did a lot of online reading on various platforms, lots of people saying the BMV is working well and on a number of occasions I'd decided to use the BMV. However, i the end I went with the LG8, mostly I guess for peace of mind.

I'm hoping the BMV proves its self over a period of time but for me the concern is that running without problem for 30k,40k,60k odd KMs doesn't yet make it a proven alternative. NB: If people have been running it for longer KMs it would be great to hear about and apologies for limiting the KMs to 60k.

For good or bad, I have a previous experience that affects my thinking: Years ago I put a Supra gearbox in my HX Ute. When buying oil to fill it ,the local parts shop's 'system' said it used ATF (it turned out that was common, incorrect recommendation, later boxes were supplied with a note saying not t use AFT and specifying the correct grade of gear oil) which I used. The box ran fine for 100,000 or so KMs until it failed. My point is that up the point if failed I would have said it had no issues.

Here's hoping that BMV is an alternative and thanks to everyone out there 'testing' it. Please keep us updated as the KMs tick over.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I did a drop and refill a few months ago (90K on the clock) and agonized over BMV vs LG8. I did a lot of online reading on various platforms, lots of people saying the BMV is working well and on a number of occasions I'd decided to use the BMV. However, i the end I went with the LG8, mostly I guess for peace of mind.

I'm hoping the BMV proves its self over a period of time but for me the concern is that running without problem for 30k,40k,60k odd KMs doesn't yet make it a proven alternative. NB: If people have been running it for longer KMs it would be great to hear about and apologies for limiting the KMs to 60k.

For good or bad, I have a previous experience that affects my thinking: Years ago I put a Supra gearbox in my HX Ute. When buying oil to fill it ,the local parts shop's 'system' said it used ATF (it turned out that was common, incorrect recommendation, later boxes were supplied with a note saying not t use AFT and specifying the correct grade of gear oil) which I used. The box ran fine for 100,000 or so KMs until it failed. My point is that up the point if failed I would have said it had no issues.

Here's hoping that BMV is an alternative and thanks to everyone out there 'testing' it. Please keep us updated as the KMs tick over.
Hopefully that wasnt 100k kms on the same fluid charge? All mechanical parts wear- period. Regardless of fluid used.

Imho if the fluid wasnt suitable at all, failure would occur quite quickly and spectacularly. So 10,20, 30k km tells me no adverse effects.

PS, i am sure the boffins at the various fluid suppliers would have done significantly more testing before making recommendations.

[DiscoJeffster]

PS, i am sure the boffins at the various fluid suppliers would have done significantly more testing before making recommendations.

They create a blend with the additive packs that meet a specification then sell it as that compatibility - so Dextron VI ad-pack applied to a base stock then it’s “LG6 compatible”.

They will get it lab tested to ensure the blend meets expectations. If you’re lucky they might try it in a vehicle first. I can assure you they don’t test it in any endurance long term in the list of vehicles on the bottle.

Penrite were the ones to release the first “LG6 compatible” oil (that wasn’t), withdrew the approval and took how many years to finally release BMV? A few.

So no, I don’t take their word for it per se. Again I’m sure BMV will be ok as it seems all manufacturers have access to the LG6 ad-pack now.

[101RRS]

PS, i am sure the boffins at the various fluid suppliers would have done significantly more testing before making recommendations.

I doubt it - if they make it and sell it, of course they will say it works.

You can buy LG6 for under $30 a litre, just a little more than my engine oil - why risk it to save a few dollars every couple of years.

[rick130]

They create a blend with the additive packs that meet a specification then sell it as that compatibility - so Dextron VI ad-pack applied to a base stock then it’s “LG6 compatible”.

They will get it lab tested to ensure the blend meets expectations. If you’re lucky they might try it in a vehicle first. I can assure you they don’t test it in any endurance long term in the list of vehicles on the bottle.

Penrite were the ones to release the first “LG6 compatible” oil (that wasn’t), withdrew the approval and took how many years to finally release BMV? A few.

So no, I don’t take their word for it per se. Again I’m sure BMV will be ok as it seems all manufacturers have access to the LG6 ad-pack now.


They create a blend with the additive packs that meet a specification then sell it as that compatibility - so Dextron VI ad-pack applied to a base stock then it’s “LG6 compatible”.

They will get it lab tested to ensure the blend meets expectations. If you’re lucky they might try it in a vehicle first. I can assure you they don’t test it in any endurance long term in the list of vehicles on the bottle.

Penrite were the ones to release the first “LG6 compatible” oil (that wasn’t), withdrew the approval and took how many years to finally release BMV? A few.

So no, I don’t take their word for it per se. Again I’m sure BMV will be ok as it seems all manufacturers have access to the LG6 ad-pack now.

Not quite how it works.

All the smaller blenders buy their additive packs from the big additive companies, Lubrizol, (probably the biggest independent additive developer and supplier in the world) RT Vanderbilt, Infineum (joint venture between Exxon Mobil and Shell) etc.

These big chem companies do all the leg work, the reverse engineering of a proprietory lubricant, (Gas chromatography) developing and working out what will work to meet a spec.
They then offer these to the independent blenders, with recommendations as to what % of add pack to base oils to meet a requirement.
The good independent blenders them mix and test to check, and if they want to gain licensing, submit the blend to the manufacturer. ZF only license fluids for their old AT's requiring TE ML 11a/b fluids, the old Dex IIIH spec.
A blender can also get custom additive blends, depending on what market they are aiming for.

ATF's aren't super complex.
You have a viscosity requirement.
You have a frictional requirement for correct clutch operation, this depends on the type of clutch face material.
You would have an anti-wear component
A mild extreme pressure component.
Friction modifiers to eliminate lock up clutch shudder, these vary depending on lockup clutch material.
Anti-foam additive, oxidation and life requirement, etc.

Lubrizol for arguments sake, will develop an add pack that can actually meet a number of specs by combining additives in the add pack.
Basic ZF frictional requirements are based pretty much on GM Dexron fluids, and that's an easy place to start, then Lubrizol will reverse engineer LG6 &8 and then blend and test and once happy market it to blenders like Penrite.
I'm using those two as examples as they have a relationship going back decades.

Mostly they get it right, occasionally they don't.

[DiscoDB]

The problem with comparing any alternative is even with no oil changes an Auto can potentially last 200-250K kms with no issues, and one which has been serviced with the correct fluid regularly may still wear out by 300K.

You would need to run an alternative oil over the full transmission life side by side to truly know if one is as good as another.

The true claimed benefit of the lifeguard fluid is you can extend the service life - which car manufacturers translated into extending the service interval to reduce operating costs (a big issue for the leased car market).

I suspect operating temp has more impact on transmission life than whether you run the Lifeguard or the Penrite oil, however I am sure the Lifeguard fluid is the best you can get. But is it twice as good?

[Discodicky]

My thoughts to this:
1. You've used Wynns additive which is designed to change the oil/fluid. So if you've used the right stuff, why mix in an additive that's going to change it? It's now not properly the right stuff. Surely if Wynns had created some amazing product large companies like ZF would have got on board?
2. My concern with the Penrite BMV, and the reason why I've stayed with genuine ZF despite using a large number of Penrite's other products is that it replaces both LF6 and 8 - they're not the same product as each other, so therefore the Penrite mustn't be exactly the same as them either...
3. You've mentioned the extra cost of going the genuine route - two thoughts on this: 1. negligible compared to the cost of a replacement transmission, 2. if your cost conscious why then spend the extra on that Wynns additive too?

Fair comment.
1. Wynns is not, quote, 'designed to change the oil/fliud'. With their Auto Supplement it is designed amongst other things to maintain 'softness' (if you like) of the seals in the compartment. As we all know, the seals go rock hard due to age/heat and then cause shifting, shudder and other problems. I have much experience with Borg Warner Model 12/35/55/60, etc trans in many cars of 60's/70's/80's and have seen these tranny's last longer due to the Wynns. It also prevents frothing. I have owned several Austin 1800's (I know!!![bigwhistle]) which have BW35 but no auto oil cooler (which all other cars do have) and as a consequence the tranny oil ran very hot. You'd be lucky to get 35,000 miles out of a tranny before a rebuild mainly due to clutch piston O rings and seals failing due to heat. Wynns took my trannys to 50-60,000 odd miles.

ZF & others may well have similar properties/additives to Wynns; we wouldn't know!

2. Why can't Penrite (and others) be clever enough to develop an oil which substitutes ZF 6 & 8?
ZF could be supplying two oils as a 'marketing exercise'!

3. You are implying that by using ZF then the tranny will outlast another tranny which is on, say, BMV.
Unfortunately, due to a million other factors, we can never prove nor disprove that claim.
I'm not cost conscious and I've explained why I use Wynns, just like others use Dr. Tranny.
I just think it doesn't stack up buying ZF at the outrageous prices, when it has not been proven (and probably can't be proven) that it is a superior product to BMV.

Your "argument" can be used when comparing engine oils and their varying prices.
When comparing their prices, is Castrol better than Shell is better than Penrite is better than Mobil and on it goes.

Penrite BMV works, so why not use it?

[twr7cx]

You're contradicting yourself.


Penrite BMV works, so why not use it?


With much respect to all, seeing that BMV is (one of the few oils) available which has proven to be a genuine substitute for Lifeguard ZF6/8...


...when it has not been proven (and probably can't be proven)...

You'ver both claimed that it's proved and admited that it hasn't been proven - this is Schrodinger's cat...
While there's enough examples around of people who've used it and the gearbox has continued to function immediately afterwards, the same might also happen if you filled up Dex 3 in there, it's possible you could got and drive a further 10,000km trouble free - but neither is an indicator or proof that it will continue to work well over the expected transmission life or extend that in service life.



I'm not cost conscious...

But a large part of your argument for using Penrite BMV over genuine LF centres around the cost.


I just think it doesn't stack up buying ZF at the outrageous prices...

...I can't understand why you'd consider Lifeguard at such stupidly outrageous prices.



1. Wynns is not, quote, 'designed to change the oil/fliud'. With their Auto Supplement it is designed amongst other things to maintain 'softness' (if you like) of the seals in the compartment.

I don't have any knowledge, expertise or experience in this area, but it seems to me that if it's mixed in the oil/fluid and doing different effects then it's likely changed that oil/fluid.
Perhaps rick130 with his vast knowledge on oils could enlighten me please?


Either way, at this point, I think were best to agree to disagree - perhaps in a few years we can catch up and see how our comparative automatic transmissions are fairing. I've got two MY12 D4 TDV6's here running the genuine LF6 in the 6 speed boxes so will be able to advise on their conditions at the time.

[Discodicky]

You're contradicting yourself.







You'ver both claimed that it's proved and admited that it hasn't been proven - this is Schrodinger's cat...
While there's enough examples around of people who've used it and the gearbox has continued to function immediately afterwards, the same might also happen if you filled up Dex 3 in there, it's possible you could got and drive a further 10,000km trouble free - but neither is an indicator or proof that it will continue to work well over the expected transmission life or extend that in service life.




But a large part of your argument for using Penrite BMV over genuine LF centres around the cost.







I don't have any knowledge, expertise or experience in this area, but it seems to me that if it's mixed in the oil/fluid and doing different effects then it's likely changed that oil/fluid.
Perhaps rick130 with his vast knowledge on oils could enlighten me please?


Either way, at this point, I think were best to agree to disagree - perhaps in a few years we can catch up and see how our comparative automatic transmissions are fairing. I've got two MY12 D4 TDV6's here running the genuine LF6 in the 6 speed boxes so will be able to advise on their conditions at the time.

Yes, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

It is a pretty much known & proven fact that using an unsuitable oil such as your example of Dexron, the problems such as shuddering will be apparent within 10,000 klms or less and this has shown not to be the case with Penrite BMV.

In my past life prior retirement I was State Product Support Mngr for almost 30 yrs of the largest Earthmoving Machinery supplier in Tas. (and believe it or not, it is NOT Caterpillar, it is Komatsu.)

During that time I did several courses with Australian Laboratory Services (ALS) in Qld who among other things are Australia's largest Oil Analysis Chemists.
I think I have a good understanding of oils, their properties, how they work and what affects them etc etc.

Have seen over the years very expensive damage caused by unsuitable oils used in various compartments, sometimes simply fixed by using a superior brand of oil, eg, Belray oil far superior and the only one to use in certain circumstances in certain final drives to get max possible bearing life.
Consequently I am very cautious and mindful not to use unsuitable oils for my vehicles......

Am more than happy to share progress reports every few months as to how the trannys are going, although I'm not using mine so often these days, the MY00 Hilux 4WD tray with 534,000 klms is doing most of the carrying work.

Let's hope at plus 250,000 klms we can both be laughing about it, having had no problems whatsoever...........

[PerthDisco]

Looking under the car recently pondering doing the 3rd ZF oil change DIY I noticed my steel pan conversion done by the Indy previously does not have a drain bolt. WTF.

I imagine that involves using a pretty big catch pan if you need to release the sump pan bolts with the oil sitting in there. Recipe for a huge mess.

Was thinking of first pumping oil out the cooler line at radiator then removing sump pan? What’s the usual method?

DrivelineAP Price - LIFEGUARD 6 (1 LITRE BOTTLE) OE ZF $ 36.42 inc gst

OIL LIFE GUARD 6 (20 LITRE) OE ZF $ 537.10 inc gst

[DiscoDB]

Pumping direct out of the oil line to the radiator will probably get about 4 litres out. If you are only wanting to do a flush and don’t intend to replace the filter - then a double flush from the oil outlet will do the job. That is pump out 4 litres, top up, then repeat.

[PerthDisco]

Pumping direct out of the oil line to the radiator will probably get about 4 litres out. If you are only wanting to do a flush and don’t intend to replace the filter - then a double flush from the oil outlet will do the job. That is pump out 4 litres, top up, then repeat.

Yes that’s the easiest and cleanest if not wanting to replace filter.

[DiscoDB]

Plus if you pump out 4 litres first, then with a large drip tray and oil collection container you could crack the oil pan bolts and pry one corner down a bit and drain to the gasket level anyway.

I am sure it will get messy!

[Eric SDV6SE]

Get the front of the car up on stands, support the rear of the transmission on a jack and remove the crossmember, then undo the pan bolts but dont remove, lower the jack about 50-60mm, should be enough to weir the fluid out over rear or the pan into a drain pan.

Btw, the BMW steel pans fit the ZF boxes and have a large drain plug with an internal hex drive.

[101RRS]

First I would have a word to the idiot who did the mod about not using the correct sump pan - it should have the drain plug in it.

For a basic oil change just suck to gearbox fluid out the filler hole - no need to undo sump bolts and all the other crap. For more than a basic change - do the above and and then take more fluid out and fill at the oil cooler and then do a final fill adjustment through the gearbox fill hole.

[PerthDisco]

First I would have a word to the idiot who did the mod about not using the correct sump pan - it should have the drain plug in it.

For a basic oil change just suck to gearbox fluid out the filler hole - no need to undo sump bolts and all the other crap. For more than a basic change - do the above and and then take more fluid out and fill at the oil cooler and then do a final fill adjustment through the gearbox fill hole.

Pan replaced and previous 2 changes done at WA’s #1 Transmission Indy so yes I’m pretty surprised it’s the no drain plug option.

[Eric SDV6SE]

For a basic oil change just suck to gearbox fluid out the filler hole - no need to undo sump bolts and all the other crap. For more than a basic change - do the above and and then take more fluid out and fill at the oil cooler and then do a final fill adjustment through the gearbox fill hole.

Fair point but its reasonable to change the filter when doing a fluid change, so pan has to come off I like the idea of suctioning the fluid out via the fill point though.

[PerthDisco]

Fair point but its reasonable to change the filter when doing a fluid change, so pan has to come off I like the idea of suctioning the fluid out via the fill point though.

I’m highly tempted at same time at 240k kms to do the 4 mechatronics seals, bridge seal and external plug seal. These are super cheap and not too hard. I ‘touch wood’ don’t have any shift or shuddering issues atm so will leave the valve body alone for the time being.

[101RRS]

Fair point but its reasonable to change the filter when doing a fluid change, so pan has to come off I like the idea of suctioning the fluid out via the fill point though.

Yes - I agree if high mileage, the steel sump still needs to come off to change the filter but not needed for most basic changes.

I do a basic change every 24,000km so not wanting to do the filter for these - just a drain and fill.

Now when designing the sump, wouldn't you think they would have designed the sump so that the filter could be changed without removing the sump - just needs a cut out a little larger that the shape of the filter with a bolt on cover - just unscrew the cover, drop the filter, put the new filter in and put the little cover back on with a new gasket - easy peasy.

[loanrangie]

You wont get it all out via the fill plug but you'll get enough out that you wont wear too much when you drop the pan.
I have the pan kit and the 4 seals and 12 ltrs of fluid which i'll do after xmas.

[josh.huber]

My pan is a pain in the back side to get off and on. Gets jammed against the filter and cross member. i have to be cruel to get it out and in

[DiscoJeffster]

My pan is a pain in the back side to get off and on. Gets jammed against the filter and cross member. i have to be cruel to get it out and in

Yeah. It’s the reason I don’t go there often. Eric drops the cross member to make it easier though I’ve never tried that.

[josh.huber]

Yeah. It’s the reason I don’t go there often. Eric drops the cross member to make it easier though I’ve never tried that.

The filter fell out when I was trying to get it off. I had to smash the filter with a long pry bar.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Yeah. It’s the reason I don’t go there often. Eric drops the cross member to make it easier though I’ve never tried that.

4 bolts and a jack to drop the cross member, takes 10min and makes it so much easier. Wouldnt want to try it the otherway; the exhaust cross over pipe also gets in the way, clearance is too tight and too easy to damage the sealing face of the transmission and dislodge the filter imho.

[DiscoJeffster]

4 bolts and a jack to drop the cross member, takes 10min and makes it so much easier. Wouldnt want to try it the otherway; the exhaust cross over pipe also gets in the way, clearance is too tight and too easy to damage the sealing face of the transmission and dislodge the filter imho.

It works, but it’s such a contortionist and frustrating process, and takes an age