Land Rover reveals engines of the future

[bob10]

From the October issue of Land Rover Monthly.






"Land Rover are building their new engines at a state of the art factory near Wolverhampton. The first to be produced are the ' Ingenium ' family of premium diesel & petrol engines. The company says the ingenium engines deliver class leading levels of torque, horsepower, & refinement while reducing emissions & fuel consumption. The engines are based on strong & compact aluminium blocks for both diesel & petrol engines .


The lightweight blocks share the same bore, stroke, cylinder spacing & 500cc cylinder capacity. . This helps give Ingenium the configurability & flexibility around which smaller or larger engines can quickly & efficiently be developed to meet future requirements. [ according to the article] . All diesel & petrol engines will be equipped with advanced turbo chargers that improve performance , particularly at low speeds, & help reduce consumption & CO2 emissions.


The first engine to go into volume production is a 2.0 litre diesel known as AJ200D.Friction is reduced by 17% compared to the current engine, helping to make it one of the most efficient & responsive 2.0 litre diesels in its class. Features include roller bearings on cam & balance shafts [ instead of machined in bearing surfaces] computer controlled variable oil & water pumps & electronically controlled piston cooling jets. All Ingenium engines will be equipped with advanced & efficient turbo chargers, central direct high-pressure fuel injection, variable valve timing & stop-start technology. " Ingenium? it's not April 1, so it must be true. There is a photo of the first engine above the article, looks very compact. Bob

[Dougal]

So no release dates or power/torque figures?

[Gerokent]

It never ceases to amaze me how the auto industry persists with the pertol/diesel engine. At best, it is only 50% efficient, and with all that wiz bang technology hanging off it, it is becoming even less reliable. I wonder how far alternate energy engines would have been developed if they spent even a small percentage of their efforts in this direction. Computer controlled oil and coolant pumps! The mind boggles.

[bob10]

So no release dates or power/torque figures?


Not in that article, at least. Found this on the web, Bob


Jaguar Land Rover offers (some) detail about new Ingenium engine - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/10/jaguar-land-rover-detail-new-ingenium-engine/)

[bob10]

It never ceases to amaze me how the auto industry persists with the pertol/diesel engine. At best, it is only 50% efficient, and with all that wiz bang technology hanging off it, it is becoming even less reliable. I wonder how far alternate energy engines would have been developed if they spent even a small percentage of their efforts in this direction. Computer controlled oil and coolant pumps! The mind boggles.


Call me a luddite, can't see these catching on in Africa, and from what I have heard about mechanics understanding the TD5 outside the big cities, even now, I have a bad feeling about this. They may be wonderful engines. But I can't help feeling Land Rover have lost a large market. Won't worry them, the Evoque was the biggest selling LR vehicle last financial year. I think they are going for the USA market. Can't blame them, business is business. Bob

[isuzurover]

The flywheel looks like it is missing some mass!!!

Images:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/1650.jpg
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/1280x849+0+243/resize/628x417!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/cac39f8e74e723296149e53b38dc14b8/200399751/Jaguar-Ingenium-Engine-01.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/1651.jpg
http://www.motoringresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Jaguar-Land-Rover-Ingenium-engine-1.jpg

[bee utey]

The flywheel looks like it is missing some mass!!!


I should think so, that's an auto trans drive plate that the torque converter would bolt to.

[Dougal]

It never ceases to amaze me how the auto industry persists with the pertol/diesel engine. At best, it is only 50% efficient, and with all that wiz bang technology hanging off it, it is becoming even less reliable. I wonder how far alternate energy engines would have been developed if they spent even a small percentage of their efforts in this direction. Computer controlled oil and coolant pumps! The mind boggles.
Do you have an alternative to internal combustion engines?

[Dougal]

Call me a luddite, can't see these catching on in Africa, and from what I have heard about mechanics understanding the TD5 outside the big cities, even now, I have a bad feeling about this. They may be wonderful engines. But I can't help feeling Land Rover have lost a large market. Won't worry them, the Evoque was the biggest selling LR vehicle last financial year. I think they are going for the USA market. Can't blame them, business is business. Bob
Africa has plenty of old and low tech engines to keep them going on watery diesel.

The td5 doesn't meet current emissions standards. Car companies can evolve and meet challenges or fold up and sell off their assets.

[BadCo.]

Do you have an alternative to internal combustion engines?

If he says electric I'll shoot him.

[JDNSW]

Call me a luddite, can't see these catching on in Africa, and from what I have heard about mechanics understanding the TD5 outside the big cities, even now, I have a bad feeling about this. They may be wonderful engines. But I can't help feeling Land Rover have lost a large market. Won't worry them, the Evoque was the biggest selling LR vehicle last financial year. I think they are going for the USA market. Can't blame them, business is business. Bob

This engine will be similar technology to all their competitors, so I doubt it will lose them much market share. The technology is driven by regulation in their major markets, and the manufacturers have no choice but to comply. And this sort of engine is the result.

John

[JDNSW]

It never ceases to amaze me how the auto industry persists with the pertol/diesel engine. At best, it is only 50% efficient, and with all that wiz bang technology hanging off it, it is becoming even less reliable. I wonder how far alternate energy engines would have been developed if they spent even a small percentage of their efforts in this direction. Computer controlled oil and coolant pumps! The mind boggles.

The best internal combustion engines are well under 50% efficiency, and very unlikely to ever get to that level.

But contrary to your statement, engines have become markedly more reliable in general, and usually longer lived, despite increased complexity.

Alternate energy engines are not a possible substitute either now or in the near future, and it is highly unlikely that any amount of expenditure over the years would have changed this. As far as I can see the only possible contender is the electric car, and it falls a long way short of the internal combustion engine on several key grounds - range and fast refuelling in particular, but also fuel distribution, and there is nothing obvious in the foreseeable future that is likely to change this. With the majority of power generation being fossil fuel, the overall efficiency of electric cars in almost all cases falls short of comparable current IC cars. Electricity distribution is inefficient, and the fuel to energy transformation in power stations is not much better than that in car engines, even if you take into account the energy costs of getting the fuel to the power station/ car engine.

John

[isuzurover]

It never ceases to amaze me how the auto industry persists with the pertol/diesel engine. At best, it is only 50% efficient, and with all that wiz bang technology hanging off it, it is becoming even less reliable. I wonder how far alternate energy engines would have been developed if they spent even a small percentage of their efforts in this direction. Computer controlled oil and coolant pumps! The mind boggles.


Your post is nonsensical. If you have a viable alternative the world would be keen to know.

[460cixy]

Your post is nonsensical. If you have a viable alternative the world would be keen to know.

He might mean somthing like this Orbital engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine) :wasntme:

[PAT303]

These are the engines that were jointly developed between Land Rover and Williams F1,they should be very strong efficient bits of kit.I can't wait for the petrol/diesel/electric technology as well as the alloy/carbon fibre bodies. Pat

[isuzurover]

He might mean somthing like this Orbital engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine) :wasntme:

Well no, because the orbital engine is still a petrol or diesel. Besides, it was too complex to be reliable.

[460cixy]

That's why I posted it . Was a flop like other brainwave alternatives that have poped up over the years

[bob10]

This engine will be similar technology to all their competitors, so I doubt it will lose them much market share. The technology is driven by regulation in their major markets, and the manufacturers have no choice but to comply. And this sort of engine is the result.

John


Yes, but there seems to be a lot of angst in the competition, will they be going down a level, or up ? Bob


The Most Disliked Car Brands (http://autos.aol.com/gallery/most-disliked-car-brands/)

[RVR110]

Call me a luddite <snip> But I can't help feeling Land Rover have lost a large market.
JLR Sales:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/40.jpg

"The growing appetite for luxury British brands has helped Jaguar Land Rover post record global sales – up 30 per cent in 2012 – as China overtook Britain as the biggest market for the first time figures released today show." full article (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2261851/Jaguar-Land-Rovers-2012-global-sales-record-high-China-overtakes-Britain-car-makers-biggest-market.html#ixzz3BsHPsomL)

Perhaps it's the luddite market that they're losing? :wasntme:

[bob10]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/40.jpg


Evoque. The market I am on about is the real 4WD market. For the masses. Land rover has moved out of that sphere. Try working & servicing the new vehicles yourself. Good luck without the right diagnostic computer, and good luck in the Pilbara ,if you break down in one of the new ones. Land Rover is becoming a boring , middle class toy. Sad, but true. Bob

[Michael2]

Do you have an alternative to internal combustion engines?

Bladon Jets signs deal with Jaguar Land Rover - Isle of Man Today (http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/business/bladon-jets-signs-deal-with-jaguar-land-rover-1-1745067)

Bladon Jets signs deal with Jaguar Land Rover

Updated on the 02 February
2010
10:29

Published 02/02/2010 10:27


ISLAND-based micro gas turbine company Bladon Jets has announced a partnership with Jaguar Land Rover to develop a device fitted to hybrid petrol/electric cars that charges batteries on the go.
The Ultra Lightweight Range Extender (ULRE) battery charger allows a hybrid vehicle to travel further without the inconvenience of stopping to charge the vehicle's batteries.


The ULRE could be a significant piece of technology in the evolution of the next generation of electric vehicles.


Bladon Jets is leading a consortium that has been awarded funding from the UK government's Technology Strategy Board to develop the ULRE.

The objective of the consortium, which includes luxury car maker Jaguar Land Rover and leading electrical machine company SR Drives, is to produce the world's first commercially viable ULRE.


Backing for the project was secured in a hotly contested 15 million funding competition organised by the Technology Strategy Board to support the advancement of the mass adoption of low carbon vehicles and is a key part of its wider programme to stimulate technology-enabled innovation and to help boost UK growth and productivity.

The ULRE will incorporate a Bladon Jets' patented axial flow gas turbine engine coupled to a high speed generator utilising SR Drives' technology.

Design of the ULRE's packaging for vehicle integration will be overseen by Jaguar Land Rover.

Paul Barrett, Bladon Jets' executive chairman said that winning the Technology Strategy Board award was a significant event not just for his company but also for the future of low carbon vehicle development in the UK.

'We are delighted to be working with our partners Jaguar Land-Rover and SR Drives on this project and look forward to seeing our micro gas turbine engine play a major role in the renaissance of the British automotive industry,' he said.

Bladon Jets is a world leader in the development of micro gas turbine engines.


Its patented breakthrough axial flow technology enables the production of highly efficient, small gas turbine engines that are ideally suited for use in hybrid electric vehicles.

Jaguar Land Rover is part of Tata Motors, India's largest automobile company.

The SR Drives Group is based in Harrogate UK and comprises two operating companies which are Switched Reluctance Drives Ltd (SRDL), and SR Drives Manufacturing Ltd (SRDML).

Both companies are wholly owned subsidiaries of Emerson Electric Co of St Louis, Missouri – the world's largest manufacturer of electric motors.

The Technology Strategy Board is an executive non-departmental public body established by the UK government in 2007 and sponsored by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS).

The activities of the Technology Strategy Board are jointly supported and funded by BIS and other government departments, the devolved administrations, regional development agencies and research councils.

[PAT303]

Bob,it's been said already,Land Rover are moving out of that sphere as you put it by regulations,they are selling every vehicle they make and are making good profits,if it wasn't for the Evoque/Freelander etc they wouldn't have the money or the confidence to produce the new RR and RRS,the D5 and best of all the new Defender.The Disco1 saved the company back in the day,the Freelander and Evoque are putting it on a strong foundation and all the new models coming in future will only make it stronger,my prediction is the new Defender will take over from Toyota if it stays at the same price and keeps the same payload capacity.And on the Pilbara bit,no vehicle sold within the last two decades can be fixed out in the bush with a screwdriver,at least with LR you can buy diagnostic tools and they don't need dealer resets,try that with a ToyoNissan. Pat

[Dougal]

Bladon Jets signs deal with Jaguar Land Rover - Isle of Man Today (http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/business/bladon-jets-signs-deal-with-jaguar-land-rover-1-1745067)

Bladon Jets signs deal with Jaguar Land Rover

Updated on the 02 February
2010
10:29

Published 02/02/2010 10:27


ISLAND-based micro gas turbine company Bladon Jets has announced a partnership with Jaguar Land Rover to develop a device fitted to hybrid petrol/electric cars that charges batteries on the go.
The Ultra Lightweight Range Extender (ULRE) battery charger allows a hybrid vehicle to travel further without the inconvenience of stopping to charge the vehicle's batteries.


The ULRE could be a significant piece of technology in the evolution of the next generation of electric vehicles.


Bladon Jets is leading a consortium that has been awarded funding from the UK government's Technology Strategy Board to develop the ULRE.

The objective of the consortium, which includes luxury car maker Jaguar Land Rover and leading electrical machine company SR Drives, is to produce the world's first commercially viable ULRE.


Backing for the project was secured in a hotly contested 15 million funding competition organised by the Technology Strategy Board to support the advancement of the mass adoption of low carbon vehicles and is a key part of its wider programme to stimulate technology-enabled innovation and to help boost UK growth and productivity.

The ULRE will incorporate a Bladon Jets' patented axial flow gas turbine engine coupled to a high speed generator utilising SR Drives' technology.

Design of the ULRE's packaging for vehicle integration will be overseen by Jaguar Land Rover.

Paul Barrett, Bladon Jets' executive chairman said that winning the Technology Strategy Board award was a significant event not just for his company but also for the future of low carbon vehicle development in the UK.

'We are delighted to be working with our partners Jaguar Land-Rover and SR Drives on this project and look forward to seeing our micro gas turbine engine play a major role in the renaissance of the British automotive industry,' he said.

Bladon Jets is a world leader in the development of micro gas turbine engines.


Its patented breakthrough axial flow technology enables the production of highly efficient, small gas turbine engines that are ideally suited for use in hybrid electric vehicles.

Jaguar Land Rover is part of Tata Motors, India's largest automobile company.

The SR Drives Group is based in Harrogate UK and comprises two operating companies which are Switched Reluctance Drives Ltd (SRDL), and SR Drives Manufacturing Ltd (SRDML).

Both companies are wholly owned subsidiaries of Emerson Electric Co of St Louis, Missouri – the world's largest manufacturer of electric motors.

The Technology Strategy Board is an executive non-departmental public body established by the UK government in 2007 and sponsored by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS).

The activities of the Technology Strategy Board are jointly supported and funded by BIS and other government departments, the devolved administrations, regional development agencies and research councils.
Electric commuter buses have been using gas turbine generators for at least 15 years now.

They are not a replacement for any internal combustible engine.

[bob10]

Bob,it's been said already,Land Rover are moving out of that sphere as you put it by regulations,they are selling every vehicle they make and are making good profits,if it wasn't for the Evoque/Freelander etc they wouldn't have the money or the confidence to produce the new RR and RRS,the D5 and best of all the new Defender.The Disco1 saved the company back in the day,the Freelander and Evoque are putting it on a strong foundation and all the new models coming in future will only make it stronger,my prediction is the new Defender will take over from Toyota if it stays at the same price and keeps the same payload capacity.And on the Pilbara bit,no vehicle sold within the last two decades can be fixed out in the bush with a screwdriver,at least with LR you can buy diagnostic tools and they don't need dealer resets,try that with a ToyoNissan. Pat


I know you are right Pat, but it seems such a shame. I hope the new Defender meets your prediction. Bob

[Dougal]

I know you are right Pat, but it seems such a shame. I hope the new Defender meets your prediction. Bob
There is no shortage of old defenders for those who don't like the replacement.

[vnx205]

Well no, because the orbital engine is still a petrol or diesel. Besides, it was too complex to be reliable.

People who like to believe that sort of thing have all sorts of stories about it being killed off by [other cars companies, oil companies, big banks, the CIA, aliens, or the Australian government] (Pick one or more of the above).

The answer is much simpler.

The Sarich orbital engine has a number of fundamental unsolved problems that have kept it from becoming a usable engine. Some key components
cannot be cooled and others cannot readily be lubricated, so it is very susceptible to overheating.[/URL]

[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine#Technical_Problems (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine#cite_note-1)

[bob10]

I believe the first orbital engine was the Wankel. Could be wrong. Interesting read, Bob


Wankel engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine)

[Hay Ewe]

The flywheel looks like it is missing some mass!!!

Images:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/1650.jpg
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/1280x849+0+243/resize/628x417!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/cac39f8e74e723296149e53b38dc14b8/200399751/Jaguar-Ingenium-Engine-01.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/1651.jpg
http://www.motoringresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Jaguar-Land-Rover-Ingenium-engine-1.jpg

Repair by replacement?

it surprises me still that basically IC engines are still the same, pistons, valves, large amount of head above the cylinder. All they are doing is changing the structure and technology around the center to reduce the emisions and reduce the friction losses.
If they can reduce the heat lost, that would be good as well

Orbital Valves to me seem a better alternate, less rotating mass, no springs etc but sealing them is the problem. Maybe the seals need to become a driver replaceable item? ha ha, like that is going to happen these days - or at least a 30 minute job.

Hay Ewe

[frantic]

Landrover really need to get a move on with the new defender as one of their unique features is no longer. Nissan have just released the new navara and it has a coil sprung solid rear axle with a 1 ton payload. The cheapo models still get leaf rear, but how long till all the others follow? Triton is due soon as well as hilux, for both the Triton and Colorado/imax they could flog the setup from their wagons, maybe Toyota with playdogh.
This is a large and growing sector that they have neglected, and it will cost them.

[Gerokent]

I entirely agree. But as I stated "If there had been more reserch and development in previous years, the alternitaves MAY have come a long way further than they have"
In regards to fast re-fueling and extended range, what about hydrogen cell.
How many ideas have been brought up and shelved by the oil companies?
And are we really making less emissions from these modern engines, think about all the extra manufacturing that takes place and the NON-longevity of the engine its self. They are a throw away item.

[PAT303]

You have to ask why we are still using 4 stroke engines,planes,ships,trains have all moved on from sail,steam,piston engines but vehicles are still the same as they were 100 years ago,the reason is no other type of engine can idle around a car park one minute and drive at 110 on a freeway the next without any issue's other than changing gears and putting your foot down.There is no other engine that can do what your basic 100 year old 4 stroke ICE can do. Pat

[PAT303]

Repair by replacement?

it surprises me still that basically IC engines are still the same, pistons, valves, large amount of head above the cylinder. All they are doing is changing the structure and technology around the center to reduce the emisions and reduce the friction losses.
If they can reduce the heat lost, that would be good as well

Orbital Valves to me seem a better alternate, less rotating mass, no springs etc but sealing them is the problem. Maybe the seals need to become a driver replaceable item? ha ha, like that is going to happen these days - or at least a 30 minute job.

Hay Ewe

Google Bishop rotary valves,designed by an Australian. Pat

[Hay Ewe]

Google Bishop rotary valves,designed by an Australian. Pat

I have book marked this thread to review later and follow the hyperlinks and red up
thanks

[Dougal]

I entirely agree. But as I stated "If there had been more reserch and development in previous years, the alternitaves MAY have come a long way further than they have"
In regards to fast re-fueling and extended range, what about hydrogen cell.
How many ideas have been brought up and shelved by the oil companies?
And are we really making less emissions from these modern engines, think about all the extra manufacturing that takes place and the NON-longevity of the engine its self. They are a throw away item.
Nope.

Simple analysis of the thermodynamic cycles of these alternative engines can be done in a few minutes and show you the limits on their efficiency

This is the first test of any proposed engine and it's enough to throw out virtually all alternatives immediately.

The remaining alternatives are usually ruled out easily with manufacturing difficulties that outweigh any benefits they may have.

[Gerokent]

You have to ask why we are still using 4 stroke engines,planes,ships,trains have all moved on from sail,steam,piston engines but vehicles are still the same as they were 100 years ago,the reason is no other type of engine can idle around a car park one minute and drive at 110 on a freeway the next without any issue's other than changing gears and putting your foot down.There is no other engine that can do what your basic 100 year old 4 stroke ICE can do. Pat

Hydrostatic drive, electric drive, (CVT transmission to some extent) vehicles have no need for engine revs to vary, so that vairable can be discounted.

[PAT303]

For that to work the engine would need to be at top rev's all the time then,thats not really viable then is it?,and what powers the gearbox?,a 4 stroke ICE. Pat

[Dougal]

Hydrostatic drive, electric drive, (CVT transmission to some extent) vehicles have no need for engine revs to vary, so that vairable can be discounted.
No it can't. The most efficient gearbox on the planet is a manual gearbox.
Automatic torque converter gearboxes are slightly worse, cvt and hydrostatic are much worse in efficiency. Not to mention the weight penalty.

Introducing a big driveline inefficiency is not going to improve fuel economy.

[Gerokent]

An engine is at it's most inefficient when accelerating from low revs to high revs under load, it does this every time you change gears. When an engine is at higher revs and no load it can go to a loaded condition with not much loss of efficiency. This negates the savings (wear and tear, fuel usage), from vairing the engine revs all the time. This is the claim of the CVT.

[Dougal]

An engine is at it's most inefficient when accelerating from low revs to high revs under load, it does this every time you change gears. When an engine is at higher revs and no load it can go to a loaded condition with not much loss of efficiency. This negates the savings (wear and tear, fuel usage), from vairing the engine revs all the time. This is the claim of the CVT.
If your engine is using high rpm on every shift then it likely needs a better control unit.

[Hay Ewe]

Google Bishop rotary valves,designed by an Australian. Pat

Thanks
I found this article paper a few months ago when I was reading up on sleeve valves / rotary valves and the like.
Valve arrangements like this are not new, have been used for many years on engines such as the Napier Sabre, Bristol Hercules.

I was thinking of the CSRV - Coates Spherical Rotating Valve system earlier.
one rotating mass, reciprocating movements, should be simple, but the sealing is the problem I expect.

[PAT303]

I can send you a PM for a site that has lots of Formula One engine tech in it if you like. Pat

[Hay Ewe]

I can send you a PM for a site that has lots of Formula One engine tech in it if you like. Pat

thanks, but its ok
I am interested in engines, but not in much detail
I love the Deltic and the Sabre and Griffin and would love to build those engines with today's technology and think about then when cycling is interesting enough for me.

Thanks again,
Hay Ewe