Vogue SDV8 vs Vogue TDV6.

[Ozjet]

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. It's taken me for what seems ages to come around to deciding that the Range Rover Vogue will be my next car (Thank you forum participants).

Now I need to decide on the engine variant. Here are some of the things that hold weight in any of my own arguments for or against either engines.


I want diesel: both qualify.

I don't care how much the car is to run and refuel but I do care about purchase price. To get the features I want I'd need to spec up the V6 a lot or the V8 a little: I'm the only one able to really decide on the value proposition here in terms of features - it's quite subjective.


The next couple of things are the things I really need help on from people with real life experience. They are...


I like power - I want to be able to pull 3000kg around easily. What I mean my this is that I want to be able to hang onto my cruising speeds up hill and down dale and I want to be able to surge quickly and safely past vehicles that choose to drive between 80km/h and 90km/h on the open road without having to wait 50 kilometres for the next part of road to become equivalent to the width and length and straightness of a airport runway. I drove the V6 Disco to get a feel for the power and was totally underwhelmed - yes, it's a heavier car and yes it's not tweaked for the same power output - so not a fair comparison - which is why I'm seeking opinions here. Many comments I've read tend to say the same thing about the power "Its fine for what I need" but they don't tend to elaborate on how they use the car.

I want as much range as possible.


I look forward to any input you may have. Cheers

[nat_89]

I'm in a bit of a quandary now. It's taken me for what seems ages to come around to deciding that the Range Rover Vogue will be my next car (Thank you forum participants).

Now I need to decide on the engine variant. Here are some of the things that hold weight in any of my own arguments for or against either engines.


I want diesel: both qualify.

I don't care how much the car is to run and refuel but I do care about purchase price. To get the features I want I'd need to spec up the V6 a lot or the V8 a little: I'm the only one able to really decide on the value proposition here in terms of features - it's quite subjective.


The next couple of things are the things I really need help on from people with real life experience. They are...


I like power - I want to be able to pull 3000kg around easily. What I mean my this is that I want to be able to hang onto my cruising speeds up hill and down dale and I want to be able to surge quickly and safely past vehicles that choose to drive between 80km/h and 90km/h on the open road without having to wait 50 kilometres for the next part of road to become equivalent to the width and length and straightness of a airport runway. I drove the V6 Disco to get a feel for the power and was totally underwhelmed - yes, it's a heavier car and yes it's not tweaked for the same power output - so not a fair comparison - which is why I'm seeking opinions here. Many comments I've read tend to say the same thing about the power "Its fine for what I need" but they don't tend to elaborate on how they use the car.

I want as much range as possible.


I look forward to any input you may have. Cheers


I have the SDV6 in a D4 and find the power pretty good for me although i haven't towed that much with it apart from the odd trailer to the dump and so forth never anything of great mass such as you are towing but for me i find the power and torque great, having said that there is about 60kw and 100nm torque difference which I'm guessing might make a bit of a difference to towing economy.

Depending on the options you want i just had a quick look on Land Rovers website and there appears to be an $18k difference between the V6 and V8 so looking at the options you want that could be a pretty big difference if you can handle the lower power taking in to account how much towing will be done.

From the figures on LRs website they don't have the same SDV6 which the new Range Rover Sport has which is a shame as that engine has an extra 25kw on the same SDV6 in the D4.

As i said i haven't towed much with mine and would like to give it a try but just don't have anything to tow, i guess if you can justify the extra $18k depending on options it could be worthwhile going the V8 as i imagine it would have a bigger surge of power to help with overtaking. Either way i would love to be in your dilemma myself haha!!

[Dougal]

There have been three V6's put into discos. One petrol and two diesel. Which did you drive?

[101RRS]

I dont think there are too many people on here that have the latest versions of either the RRS or the RR so I doubt that you will be able to get specific experiences - Nat had highlighted items for general consideration.

As Dougal mentioned - what engine did you drive - I assume a D4 diesel so was it a 2.7 TDV6, a 3 litre TDV6 or the 3 litre SDV6. If it was the latter and you were disappointed then you are hard to please and there is not much of a choice from either Landrover or any other make that is commonly available.

If from LR then really the only choice is a 4.4 TDV8 .

I don't think there is any other make with a diesel that comes close.

You need to test drive and make up your own mind.

Garry

[nat_89]

I dont think there are too many people on here that have the latest versions of either the RRS or the RR so I doubt that you will be able to get specific experiences - Nat had highlighted items for general consideration.

As Dougal mentioned - what engine did you drive - I assume a D4 diesel so was it a 2.7 TDV6, a 3 litre TDV6 or the 3 litre SDV6. If it was the latter and you were disappointed then you are hard to please and there is not much of a choice from either Landrover or any other make that is commonly available.

If from LR then really the only choice is a 4.4 TDV8 .

I don't think there is any other make with a diesel that comes close.

You need to test drive and make up your own mind.

Garry

The only other one which isn't on the list and not that great off road is the Audi Q7 which is the same engine as the Porsche Cayenne thats a 4.2L V8 TTD and its got 250kw and 800nm of torque!! But neither of them are as big or luxurious or well set out inside as a Range Rover or look as good and i don't believe either come with a full size spare tyre.

[101RRS]

The only other one which isn't on the list and not that great off road is the Audi Q7

But like most of them it is a softroader and not suitable for offroad use - more for driving to the snow on sealed roads.

However the Porsche could be setup for offroad use if wanted.

[nat_89]

But like most of them it is a softroader and not suitable for offroad use - more for driving to the snow on sealed roads.

However the Porsche could be setup for offroad use if wanted.

Yeah thats its sorry was only referring to your comment saying no one else makes a V8 diesel that awesome. Mind you a friend of mine has a Q7 and taken it off road to fraser island and so forth he reckoned went good.

[CSBrisie]

Not to mention the Q7 comes in V12 diesel mode too doesnt it? 1000nm?

Merc G Class used to have a nice 4.0TDV8 with 700NM plus too I recall...not sure if still?

But back to LR - I still think the best compromise in the L405 is the SDV6 190Kw - get an e-dff and 18's and it will be sensational; if you need a few more neddies get an ECU remap and twin 3 inch exhaust fitted - I did this to my TDV8 in Brisbane (suspect thats gets you 225Kw and 700nm in SDV6).

I have the L322 4.4TDV8 and love it - but its, what, 500kg heavier than the new L405? so I';m certain I'd go back to the SDV6 if I upgraded.

cheers

[Ozjet]

I've gone through the exercise of finalising the shortlist then picking the top contender - which is Range Rover Vogue. Currently I drive a 911 and LC100 series and my wife has the twin turbo Q5 diesel (which goes like a rocket). The new V8 Cayennes Diesel S was the only car in the end I was considering along side the Range Rover. Porsche fell of the list because it is smaller, becomes even smaller when you option a full sized spare and compels the driver to really engage - rather than just relax and enjoy the ride.

I think that the trouble for me is that when I went into the dealership the sales guy first took me for a spin in the SDV8 and then as a comparison we jumped straight into the Disco4 with the SDV6 with the 600 nm of torque (same as the motor they call the TDV6 in the Vogue??). Me being underwhelmed may have been more of a product of me driving to the dealership in a 911, test driving the SDV8 in a Vogue and then jumping into approx half ton heavier Disco with the V6.

In any event, even it I did have the chance to compare the Vogue TDV6 right along side the Vogue SDV8 in that environment I probably wouldn't be able to tell how they would compare to each other in the real world pulling a heavy van.

That's where I'm hoping this forum will help.

[Greatsouthernland]

We were going to buy the vogue V8 diesel, so took one for an hour through hills, absolute rocket.

Ended up buying the D4 SDV6 and will trade the Merc on the Vogue next year. They are both good, but the V8 seemed to have less lag on take off and more response on right pedal application in all situations, especially uphill. Couldn't tow on the test drive, but I'm sure the V8 will do it easier.

[nat_89]

Not to mention the Q7 comes in V12 diesel mode too doesnt it? 1000nm?

Merc G Class used to have a nice 4.0TDV8 with 700NM plus too I recall...not sure if still?

But back to LR - I still think the best compromise in the L405 is the SDV6 190Kw - get an e-dff and 18's and it will be sensational; if you need a few more neddies get an ECU remap and twin 3 inch exhaust fitted - I did this to my TDV8 in Brisbane (suspect thats gets you 225Kw and 700nm in SDV6).

I have the L322 4.4TDV8 and love it - but its, what, 500kg heavier than the new L405? so I';m certain I'd go back to the SDV6 if I upgraded.

cheers

Yes the did have the V12 Q7 but i think it only lasted a year or 2 and they canned it because it was about $220k i think and i did forget about the GL there nice but good point on the LR getting it remapped and exhaust. There is only less than a second to 100km difference because of the weight saved i think.

[nat_89]

I've gone through the exercise of finalising the shortlist then picking the top contender - which is Range Rover Vogue. Currently I drive a 911 and LC100 series and my wife has the twin turbo Q5 diesel (which goes like a rocket). The new V8 Cayennes Diesel S was the only car in the end I was considering along side the Range Rover. Porsche fell of the list because it is smaller, becomes even smaller when you option a full sized spare and compels the driver to really engage - rather than just relax and enjoy the ride.

I think that the trouble for me is that when I went into the dealership the sales guy first took me for a spin in the SDV8 and then as a comparison we jumped straight into the Disco4 with the SDV6 with the 600 nm of torque (same as the motor they call the TDV6 in the Vogue??). Me being underwhelmed may have been more of a product of me driving to the dealership in a 911, test driving the SDV8 in a Vogue and then jumping into approx half ton heavier Disco with the V6.

In any event, even it I did have the chance to compare the Vogue TDV6 right along side the Vogue SDV8 in that environment I probably wouldn't be able to tell how they would compare to each other in the real world pulling a heavy van.

That's where I'm hoping this forum will help.

Haha i can see where your quandary is there probably hard when you drive a 911 and then take the V8 for a drive back to back with a D4 its hard!! It makes it hard to test towing and real world tests around that.

I guess if i was making the choice i would probably look at the V8 if i didn't mind spending the extra money as it would probably tow that bit easier an extra 100nm of torque would make a big difference and less stress as the engine isn't working as hard. Plus it would have the nice grunty V8 note haha

I can only suggest driving your 100 series Cruiser to the dealer then driving the SDV6 I'm sure then it will feel awesome haha.

[Dougal]

If you intend to tow, then a remap is a really silly idea.

[Ozjet]

I think that its fair to assume that there would be more grunt in the SDV8. The real question is how much extra grunt over the V6 this actually translates to at 80km/h pulling a 3000kg van - either when overtaking or heading up a long hill.

The TDV6 is about 250kg's lighter than the SDV8 - Not really sure how much this comes into play over a combined Car/Caravan ("the rig") weight of close to 6000kgs. I know things aren't as simple as this but on paper the additional combined weight for the rig with the SDV8 is just over 5% more while the torque gain is about 15% - so a net 10% improvement (approximate) - for 20K (ish).

I wait for those engineering types to respond. Please be gentle with me :)

[Ozjet]

i don't even know what a remap is - i tend not to like to modify cars - my rationale being that they big companies spend billions on R&D and make deliberate decisions on the final specs for reasons unknown to us.

[harlie]

Unlike the Q7, VW Toureg is a real 4x4 and is available with the V8 diesel.

Friends have a 2011 V10Tdi (down on power, torque and 2 gears compared to the new V8) and it turns heads as no one expects it to be able to go where it goes off road. Height adjustable air suspension, locking diffs & TC, duel range - it’s not really a soft roader... However it is MUCH smaller and has a harsher ride than my L322 let alone the new one. They tow a big van and it performs unbelievably. Long wheelbase with short overhangs give it good towing geometries, not to mention the effortless low down grunt from a twin turbo 5L V10.

[Dougal]

Unlike the Q7, VW Toureg is a real 4x4 and is available with the V8 diesel.

Friends have a 2011 V10Tdi (down on power, torque and 2 gears compared to the new V8) and it turns heads as no one expects it to be able to go where it goes off road. Height adjustable air suspension, locking diffs & TC, duel range - it’s not really a soft roader... However it is MUCH smaller and has a harsher ride than my L322 let alone the new one. They tow a big van and it performs unbelievably. Long wheelbase with short overhangs give it good towing geometries, not to mention the effortless low down grunt from a twin turbo 5L V10.


But it's biggest problem is virtually no suspension articulation. The V10 engines also had issues and have been discontinued. The V8 4.2tdi now delivers more than the V10 did.

[Meccles]

Having had TDV8 sports (old model 3.6) and now SDV6 Sport (again old model) the V8 was definitely better in mid range, better towing, better overtaking. More thirsty though not too bad. In isolation the SDV6 is good, hard to complain, and does ok, but you can't really beat cubic inches for torque, towing and overtaking. Plus best exhaust note. If you drive a 911, I would think V8 would be powerplant of choice. It would be mine:)

[Graeme]

From all reports the 4.4 has a lot better performance and fuel economy than the 3.6 and even better fuel economy than the SDV6, which equates to more range from a tank-full if that's important.

Does the lighter TDV6-engined Vogue have a dual range transfer case?

Edit: Both have dual range but the TDV6 doesn't seem to have Dynamic Response which IIRC includes the e-diff.

[CSBrisie]

Correct - you cannot order an e-diff on the new Vogue if you want the V6 diesel:mad:.

And the GOE 18 inch rims only fit these SDV6 cars - not the TDV8 or petrol V8:(.

Doesnt impact me now - but will when they come down in price one day far into the future :p lol!!!

[peter g]

Hi C S Brisie,
"and the GOE 18 inch rims only fit these SDV6 cars"
For some reason unknown to me LR call it a TDV6 when fitted to the L405, and SDV6 when fitted to D4.
Has anyone actually tested the GOE's on the L405 (TDV6), the last discussion I had with Gordon, he had not.

[CSBrisie]

no, doubt it, but based on the size of the brakes they should fit easily,
cheers

[frantic]

Just having a browse as a relo is considering a sport tdv6 or 8,, you could always contact long range automotive for a custom fuel tank for extra range.
The confusing thing is the RR normal tdv6 , is the disco sdv6, 190kw. The RR hybrid is labeled sdv6 and has a lower towing limit.
Looking at GVM and GCM the RR is the same in both v6 and v8 as they have raised the GCM for the tdv8 from 6.5 to 6.7ton. With around 800 kg payload in both.
The only other options not mentioned to tow with that sort of power are grey imports of USA trucks, like the f250, chev Silverado 6.6 duramax or Dodge Ram diesel who are being converted by walkinshaw . The issue with those is they are huge so not practical for anything other than towing or rural driving, as you need 2 spots to park them. They also are leaf sprung rears and not anywhere near as capable or comfortable.
There is talk of Nissan building a 5.0 v8 diesel with cummins for the bigger patrol, but that's not here yet.

[MR LR]

Go the SDV8 if you want to tow... it's built for it... (originally from the F-series). Makes the SDV6 look like a toy!

[CSBrisie]

Have to agree having owned both (D4 SDV6) and now Vogue SDV8. We tow a 21 foot Bushtracker (Heavy!) and the RRV really does do it with ridiculous ease.