Absolutely Madness

[Chucaro]

Australia to open embassy in Kiev and consider 'non-lethal' military assistance to Ukraine, PM Tony Abbott says (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-03/tony-abbott-announces-interim-embassy-in-kiev/5716632)

"In the medium term, we are considering civil and military capacity-building assistance to that country."

What happens with this guy?
Is he like to be one of the leaders in the world? :censored:

We are under " emergency budget" money is not there, workers are to loose more than $100000 in super, there are not money for science, health and education.

Bugger! I need a cup or two........then again were is the bottle...........

[101RRS]

Sorry - don't see what the issue is.

[disco man]

Not sure if that is a good idea at all,it could be seen by the Russians as more than just civil or non-lethal.

Or is it smart to have some forces on the ground when it all kicks off?

[Chucaro]

Not sure if that is a good idea at all,it could be seen by the Russians as more than just civil or non-lethal.

Or is it smart to have some forces on the ground when it all kicks off?

Not only that but also IMHO is a NATO issue an Australia should concentrate in our region.
West Papua can be a good starting point if the government like to play big.

[lochie]

Chucaro. I totally agree with your sentiments ,look after our back yard first and wait till we are asked for help and then evaluate the request.Since ww2 we have had a series of politicians who deluded themselves by believing they were statesmen on the world stage.After working overseas ,with a foreign government,on returning to Australia my first impression's were what a great country I was born in.The country runs itself in spite of the lack lustre politicians who fail to accept the Julias Caesar/JFK quote.''Not what my country can do for me but what can I do for my country''.Well thats my thoughts on the subject.Cheers Lochiehttp://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/smilies/cool.gif

[mox]

Interesting to note the comments already made on the ABC site since this news item was posted. Most strongly against Abbott's stupid proposal. He ought to check news sources other than mainstream media and Yankee propaganda, which anyone can now readily do thanks to the Internet.


The so called rebels, who obviously hate the recently installed Ukrainian western puppet regime and/or the Russians were initially very quickly blamed for shooting down MH17 with a missile. Western media has gone very quiet since photos of wreckage with fuselage pieces from sides of cockpit full of bullet holes were posted online. This and other evidence indicates it was apparently shot down by a Ukrainian fighter. Looks like Abbott needs some new advisors if he still believes the initial false reports.

[jonesy63]

This and other evidence indicates it was apparently shot down by a Ukrainian fighter.

Hahahaaa - keep on tokin...and the thousands of Russian soldiers there are "on holidays"!

[AndyG]

Hahahaaa - keep on tokin...and the thousands of Russian soldiers there are "on holidays"!

Just passing through to the Crimera for a day at the beach, and the Miss Tractor Driver contest. That can't be right the Crimeria is Ukrainian.

Must be Abbots fault.

I can't understand why Tassie is a basket case when they had great leaders like sponge Bob Brown

[Chucaro]

It is interesting the choice by the Ukraine refugee people were to go, over 800000 prefer go to Russia and only 260000 stay in EU.
Not many when to Kiev.
Make you wonder....................

[PhilipA]

Just to answer Chucaro on superannuation.

How can you "lose" something you never had?

This was an unfunded promise supposed to be tied to the MRRT and paid for by the Billions generated.
There was no guarantee that the majority of workers would not just have it deducted from their salary package anyway.

I could never see how the government was going to lose money on it except that they would have probably increased public servants' wages to compensate.

I really am ashamed of the Australian media including the despised Murdoch press for blowing up an imaginary issue.

With regard to Kiev, we are all foreign policy experts now aren't we.

There is no doubt that Putin wants to annex the Ukraine and hates the idea of NATO being so close to Russia.
There was not a pretty result last time the West tried appeasement. I think the bloke was Neville Chamberlaine.
Yet Reagen won the Cold War by hanging tough.
Maybe Obama needs a few nudges to get some backbone

Regards Philip A.

[incisor]

Maybe Obama needs a few nudges to get some backbone

how come it is an american problem?

where are the europeans? it is their backdoor ffs....

[incisor]

I really am ashamed of the Australian media including the despised Murdoch press for blowing up an imaginary issue.

imaginary?

by all accounts we need to be at 14% or future generations will be burdened much more heavily than they should be..

with all the rhetoric about burdening future generations from the current incumbents about our current budget emergency and now this, has to leave one wondering imho

[Chucaro]

Just to answer Chucaro on superannuation.

How can you "lose" something you never had?

.................................................. ...................................
Regards Philip A.

:confused: :eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/1445.jpg

[olbod]

Keeping in mind that there has been biff and bam between Russia and us for some time behind the scene.
Remember when that bloke that was leaking stuff, cant remember his name, went to Russia to escape the yanks.
After Russia read the stuff putin invited the Indonesians to come and examine it to see for themselves what Australia had been to upto in there area.
I dont imagine that went down well in Canberra.

[disco man]

how come it is an american problem?

where are the europeans? it is their backdoor ffs....

They are the ones that call themselves the worlds police.And it's the American way to find something to shoot/bomb it's in their nature.

[mox]

The view expressed by jonesy 63 regarding my earlier post shows he has apparently done little or no checking of news sources which sometimes provide information which the mainstream ignores or effectively peddles slanted propaganda against. Seems the pro separatists in Eastern Ukraine openly admit Russian volunteers are helping them. Also that an apparently not very competent Ukrainian army has a problem with soldiers not strongly believing their cause defecting with their equipment, fleeing over the border into Russia or surrendering. The whole incident is basically a civil war with US and Russia giving opposing sides some support. Seems not exactly the same as Crimea where there has been a long history of stronger Russian influence and sympathies.






Re shooting down of MH17, the main question is if it was deliberate as some sort of attempted "false flag" or a mistake. One possibility that has been aired is something making Ukrainian military believe it was Vladimir Putin's plane, which had been passing somewhere near Ukraine at around the same time. Also seems dodgy coverups going on. Air traffic control records have been hidden and apparently evidence from black box recorders has still not been released.

[frantic]

Regarding Russia and Ukraine, my personal opinion is that we should be moving back to let the E.U sort it out not further in.
Regarding the super slash and burn.:mad: it's saving companies a few dollars today for us to all pay in multiples in the future. It's condemning my generation to work longer and our kids to pay higher taxes to give the bigger companies a better bottom line.

It will be interesting to see what the black box says if it ever comes to light?

[Hoges]

The EU is involved thru NATO. It's not just us following the Americans. Like everything else we have to be part of the global defence scene if we want to export and trade globally. Whether we like it or not we are involved... and so we have to pull our weight commensurate with our resources. We have an elevated status now with NATO because of the top job our forces did in Afghanistan. We NEED this sort of acceptance on the world stage.

Also consider this: just like sporting teams need constant "combat" against other teams to learn and improve so too we need constant renewal and actual war experience to keep the defence force in top shape... novices don't win battles..you need experienced people who can keep a cool head. It's not a pleasant thought and the basket weavers will cringe... but it's brutal fact...that's the real nature of the increasingly unstable world society we live in.... end of rant:angel:

[Mick_Marsh]

imaginary?

by all accounts we need to be at 14% or future generations will be burdened much more heavily than they should be..
You people in staff positions (not you Inc) will not get your take home pay cut with super contribution increases. A lot of people, people like me will. Any super contribution increase I pay, not my agent.
I would rather put that money into other investments than give it to a superannuation company to lose.
There is nothing stopping people contributing 14% if they so chose.

[PhilipA]

Chucaro yes I am serious.
Where was the money to come from? Labor woul d be faced with the same problem of their own making.
When I thought about it later the loss to the government would be the decline in tax revenue by having a rate of only 15% on contributions and not the full rate.
You seem to have this wonderland idea that Labour governments actually do what they promise, like "There will never be a carbon tax " Quote from J Gillard PM aspirant.

I understand from your posts that you are a pensioner and not affected by any superannuation changes anyway.

Well how about expressing your gratitude to the government for keeping the (clean) energy supplement for pensioners after the carbon tax has been axed. That is something this government promised and actually did , although it is no longer indexed.
I am grateful.
Regards Philip A

[Chucaro]

Chucaro yes I am serious.
.................................................. .................................................. .........
Well how about expressing your gratitude to the government for keeping the (clean) energy supplement for pensioners after the carbon tax has been axed. That is something this government promised and actually did , although it is no longer indexed.
I am grateful.
Regards Philip A

:Rolling::Rolling: yes, I will send donations to the party and look for opportunities to kiss Abbott's rear :D

I have never said that I have voted for the ALP or that I support them.
Only voted for them to reinstall Gough and remove Fraser.

I never said that I am a pensioner which it is not denigrating and also pensioners reserve all what they get and more for the hard work that they have done during their working life.

I guess that we have to finish the issue here before becomes political ;)

Have a nice day.

[frantic]

My question Philip is, Where will the money come from?
Where will the money for the extra pensioners come from?
Where will the money for their increased medical expenses come from?


You complain about a few dollars extra now into super, but in the future it will be a multiple of that cost in tax or greatly reduced services, Which do you pick for your kids?


As to politicians and promises? No new taxes, no GST, no Carbon, No pension cuts, No welfare cuts, No cuts to education, no cuts to universities. No wankchoices V2. So far they have broken promises faster than any previous govt. But not getting political every previous govt did break some.
Then there was the "no favours for donations". ;)
Though previous state govt's did not have a royal commission that was meant to purely target obeid and state labor corruption but instead has hit lots of liberal rep's as well and that has ties all the way to the top office in the land!
Where one of the blokes handling the "donations" from forbidden developers is married to the chief of staff in the PM's office. Notice how this got hush hushed by everyone?
I mean your chief of staff is married to the Libs federal director (since 2003)of your party and you have no idea where all this "tinkling" cash is coming from to be sent back to Barry Who for his election campaign? ROFL
https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/24665053/stench-of-corruption-wafts-through-libs/
ICAC hears Liberal party boss Brian Loughnane knew developer donations went through federal channels (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/icac-hears-liberal-party-boss-brian-loughnane-knew-developer-donations-went-through-federal-channels-20140806-100vlc.html)
ICAC hears that Liberal party boss Brian Loughnane knew of developer donations going through federal channels - Metro - National - General - The Land (http://www.theland.com.au/news/metro/national/general/icac-hears-that-liberal-party-boss-brian-loughnane-knew-of-developer-donations-going-through-federal-channels/2707696.aspx)

[PhilipA]

My question Philip is, Where will the money come from?
Where will
the money for the extra pensioners come from?
Where will the money
for their increased medical expenses come from?


You complain about a few dollars extra now into super, but in the
future it will be a multiple of that cost in tax or greatly reduced services,
Which do you pick for your kids?

Er I think you are talking to the wrong person.

I have never complained about extra super, just the attitude that people have somehow lost something when they never had it in the first place.

It was always just a politicians promise and we know how much they are worth.
So I don't understand the post.

But I agree that there is a problem developing but every time someone tries to correct the budget they get screams from everywhere .

Look at Childcare. I cannot believe that non working mothers get subsidised child care , and I cannot believe that the subsidies go up to fabulous salaries. The government itself is mostly to blame for the increased costs by continually upping standards and qualifications needed.

When my kids were young we had play groups but they are not allowed as mothers don't have the qualifications FFS.

I personally think that pension qualification levels are too generous I was talking to abloke the other day who owns an acreage on the Hawkesbury, an RRS, 3 RRCs. he was saying his accountant was trying to work out a way for him to get $1 of pension so he could get the medical card.

So I agree with you.
Taxes will have to rise and welfare be reduced from people who don't need it. However its going to be hard as people on two incomes earning over 100K expect welfare and woe betide governments who try to reduce it.
Regards Philip A
BTW the ban on developer donations was introduced by the last Labor Government to screw the Libs. Ask yourself why donations from unions to the ALP are not banned also. BUT it now is law and the Libs must abide by the law.

[frantic]

Umm last time I checked the unions were not trying to build a coal loader or bulldoze the rocks or dump dredging at sea. They also weren't seeking approval for masses of units around Sydney or getting zoning changed.
.
Having seen the extent some go to hide their assets, it would be far easier and better tax wise to give every retired person the medical card.


Both Lib and Lab where dirty to some extent with the developers. Originally the appeals thing that labor introduced was because of the Lib/ green councils up your way that would take 6-12 months for a simple house, this ended up getting milked so you now have units galore and instances down here where 2 councils object to a subdivision yet it gets pushed through even though both councils show that it will cause downstream flooding.
The difference is you can trace developer donations to and through Abbots office.

[PhilipA]

Serious Charges. You should present your evidence to the police. Or not.

Somewhat like Ms Gillard. Now called to front a Royal Commission. And of course there IS evidence in this case. Enough for the Victorian Police to keep the case open.
Regards Philip A

[frantic]

I actually put up the links from channel 7, smh in the previous post that you partially quoted, :angel:concerning the PM's chief of staff and her husband from the commission. Have a read.;)
Guess which companies links to the same topic no longer work? Brisbane paper goes to blank Page, nine's goes to a different story with all mention of liberal party director removed. But Murdoch would never filter the news.

[Chucaro]

Frantic, are you referring to THIS (http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tony-abbott-and-the-slit-your-throat-staffer-scandal,5253) case ?

[PhilipA]

My last post on this.

But you have to distinguish between EVIDENCE and TV or media based SPECULATION.

Otherwise you have trial by Today Tonight or whatever.

I have to say that IMHO this thread has become like naming names and though very unlikely could result in slander alegations.

Regards Philip A

[frantic]

My last post on this.

But you have to distinguish between EVIDENCE and TV or media based SPECULATION.

Otherwise you have trial by Today Tonight or whatever.

I have to say that IMHO this thread has become like naming names and though very unlikely could result in slander alegations.

Regards Philip A

As far as i know the information was from ICAC now last time I checked they where not a media outlet, but with 3.5 different media outlets reporting the same story including a lib/Nat leaning country paper I'd say your speculation on defamation is more fantasy than fact, just read the titles of the links, my post you part quoted,again, they claim to have got their info from ICAC
Now these where from august 7 and 8th and there has been no defamation case against ICAC, channel 7, the SMH, the land, Brisbane paper, ninemsn, crikey. But maybe they will go us for repeating a month old story?:D
Do your own search, Brian Loughnane liberal developer donations.

Interesting article Chucaro, I was talking about state liberal diverting developers donations through the federal organisation to make them "legal".

[Chucaro]

I guess that we can go back to the topic of Australia be involved in the Ukraine conflict.
I just wonder if we are going to finish with an egg in our face an farmers loosing a market because the ego of those in the top.................

[Tote]

Yep... OK, maybe we are establishing an embassy in Ukraine to be able to participate in bringing the terrorists that shot down MH17 to justice. It is difficult to have any influence in a foreign land without a diplomatic presence. What would your alternative be? leave it up to the Ukranians and tell the Australian people that we can't be bothered expending money to participate in the investigation?

Regards,
Tote

[Chucaro]

Yep... OK, maybe we are establishing an embassy in Ukraine to be able to participate in bringing the terrorists that shot down MH17 to justice. It is difficult to have any influence in a foreign land without a diplomatic presence. What would your alternative be? leave it up to the Ukranians and tell the Australian people that we can't be bothered expending money to participate in the investigation?

Regards,
Tote

NATO and the UN ;)

[Tombie]

If you old bar stewards would stop living so bloody long we wouldn't have this super / pension issue... :angel::twisted::wasntme: