Will FL2 TD4/SD4 tow my new (2nd hand) Avan Cruiser comfortably?

[gregmacc]

Hi all ... We've come to the realisation that our 2012 manual Forester (2.5 Lt petrol) is going to struggle. The rear suspension sags when the van is fully loaded ... even though tow weights are within Subaru's recommended parameters. Subaru states that the use of a WDH is not recommended with the genuine tow bar fitted to our car. Suspension upgrade options are very limited, and we don't want to live with a harsh ride when the car is used for normal unladen city driving. The clutch needs to be very carefully looked after, and although power is adequate, it's a long way from optimal when touring fully loaded in demanding situations. Surprisingly I have not encountered any stability or braking issues on the 2 short trips we have done. We are very happy with the Forester in most other respects.

90% of our driving will be around the city and suburbs (Adelaide). We really like SUVs for a general purpose vehicle. We don't necessarily need extreme 4WD capability. It's more to do with being able to tow the van comfortably on decent (and not so decent) unsealed outback roads. We won't be going a lot further into the bush than I can tow the van ... and that isn't exactly "off road".
I'm thinking Northern Flinders/Gammons, Gawler Ranges as the roughest destinations. And a lot of our trips will be on interstate tarmac. When touring on holidays we plan to venture a little further into moderate 4WD tracks with the van left at the campsite (obviously), so better than sedan ground clearance and angles will be required.
We have a budget of $60,000(ish) and would want to purchase new. This will hopefully be a car that "does us" for the next 10 years. We are keen to try turbo diesel for fuel economy and "towability".

Our Avan Cruiser weights fully loaded:
ATM: 1160 kg
Tow ball mass: 114 kg
We also carry a 60Lt fridge, sometimes up to 20Lt of extra water, and a 30 kg second battery in the tow vehicle. A roof rack mounted 120 watt solar panel will be a future addition.
I expect the Subaru's payload contributes significantly to the "sag" ;)

Vehicles we are considering:
Prado
Territory
Ranger
Sorento
Santa Fe
Challenger

All of those vehicles involve compromises in terms of what we want/need ... I think the biggest worry with the FL2 (assuming it's up-to our towing requirements) is reliability ... but that's for another post ...

Any opinions and experiences gratefully considered,
Cheers,
Greg

[Richard93Vogue]

Hi, I can't speak to the diesel as I have the 2007, 3.2l petrol. But I can say that mine tows just under a 1000kg easily! and manages in the 12-13l/100km. And the ride whilst towing is fabulous. I have owned a few Land Rovers and this one is the most reliable one I've had. Only real drama I've had was a replacement starter motor and radiator fan at about 170,000km. Other than that it is a champion car!

[Meken]

We have an 08 hse diesel. It's a very comfortable car that drives more like a car than a 4wd. The diesel has some stik when rolling. We have a goldstream wing 3st which has ATM of a bit over 1.6 t (so about the same as the car weighs ). You don't even know it's towing it handles it with such ease. I sit on the speed limit (110 where allowed) I do have a wdh just to lift the rear of the car a bit but it doesn't really need it. (My dad gave it to me). It is a great 4wd with the terrain response and plenty of grunt (380nm). It's light weight means it eats up the sand and it's very good in other terrain. There's a guy on here goes Vic high country up the hard climbs and loves it. Reliability has not been an issue with our car (knock on wood). It's only drawback is clearance but that is comparing to a d3/4, it has about the same or better clearance than most if the other vehicles in your list. Beware the cost of fitting tow bar - it works out about $2.5 k for towing electrics, bar & brake controller. Towing electrics are smart and detect trailer connected and turn off rear parking sensors, change gearbox learning and other stuff. You need an led module box for trailers with led lights as the car pulses the light circuits to check for blown globes - this makes most led's twinkle. Also the factory tow at has a 40mm receiver so it limits accessories you can hitch in. (Hayman Reece is a good bar with standard 50mm hitch)
Economy in diesel is good. Example - toeing the camper on the highway returns early 9l/100. Long term short trips in city traffic ( peak hour) returns between 11-14. Unloaded highway driving returns mid - high 7's. (As a comparison we towed our empty camper back from Melbourne to bris with a new 200 Sahara diesel that returned just under 15l/100 - all highway)

[gregmacc]

Thanks for responding to my rather wordy post Richard ... Sounds like you've had a relatively good run ... I get the impression that the older units have caused the most grief reliability wise ...

[gregmacc]

Thanks Meken ... I would rather not have to use a WDH if possible. When you say "it doesn't really need it", is there any "sag" without it? Do you carry much weight in the car when towing? What is your tow ball weight?
A 40mm receiver seems a bit soft for a car rated to tow 2000kg ... I have several 50mm lugs for different purposes and don't fancy the expense of changing them. Would a third party tow bar void warranty? Would third party tow bar specialists be able to handle the "smart electrics"?
Thanks again for responding ... much appreciated.
Cheers,
Greg

[Meken]

Best to ask LR themselves about the aftermarket bar / warranty issue. I think you really want a LR specialist to do the electrics (will cost you around $1k installed - the rrp of the trailer module is about $950+ but you should be able to negotiate or chase up rover parts in Adelaide as they some times have the trailer ecu's second hand) as the ecu / bcu need programming so the car knows there is a trailer ecu now plugged in. Also the LR wiring has the 2 plugs (7 round black + 5 round white) and they split the tail light circuits to each side which uses the electric brake pin so you need to cut this & rewire. There is not enough room beside your left knee to mount a controller on the lower part of the dash (knee airbag gets in the way) I have ours mounted up on top of the centre console on the side of the speaker grille (easily replaceable if need be).
I'll let you know in a couple of days re sag as I'm going to properly set up the wdh tomorrow (measure wheel arch heights etc before & after) there's maybe 40 mm compression with the van heavy & the boot full of heavy stuff (esky, suitcases etc). Only once has it felt a little light on the steering and I think I had the van way too heavy on the ball.

[mikehzz]

The diesel will tow it easily and get good economy. The Freelander 2 is a reliable car. Most owners on all the forums are happy with them. Mine is 6 years old and 200k kms still going fine. Things that bug me...the key fob can stop working, makes it hard to get into and start the car. A simple key would have been nice. 07-10 models had a bearing in the diff that would whine after around 70k kms. 07 models had steering rack/pump issues. A really nice car to drive and good off road. If your trailer has led lights then there will be issues to deal with.

[Meken]

Led module $285 fixes the led lightshow
http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com/

[mikehzz]

This from the UK. It's around 1800kg

Freel2.com - View topic - The caravan (http://www.freel2.com/forum/post234283.html#234283)

[Meken]

I measured the car at wheel arches with & without the van on. I'm not sure of the ball weight but it's definitely north of 100kg probably closer to 150kg.
The rear sagged 40mm without the wdh (and with nothing in the car) when I pulled up the wdh bars (not overly tight) it pulled the rear up about 20mm. The wdh is more to take out the " bounce" you get through dips etc more than lift the rear whilst still allowing good IRS response. It will obviously put more load back onto the front wheels.

[robbotd5]

G'day Greg.
Out of the new vehicles you list, although it sounds like your set on the Freelander, I'd personally go for the Ranger. It is big, powerful, comfy, safe, offers the practicality of a ute (you could even upgrade to a 5th wheeler if you wish) and tow 3.5 tonne. Again, what you want if you ever wish of get a bigger van!.
I've heard nothing but good things from other vanner's about the way the Ranger handles a big van.
Ps: We have a 23 ft Retreat Daydream and tow with my D2a. It handles it with bravado...but...I would like something a little heavier and more powerful from standard. For me it would be a new Ranger or a 2nd hand D4 SDV6.
Regards
Robbo

[gregmacc]

Thanks Meken for going to the trouble ... I need to find some time to really get my head around all this information ... This is all very new to me. I've never even seen a WDH in the flesh ... let alone all the electrical stuff. What ever happened to the KISS principle? :eek:

[gregmacc]

Hi Robbo ... I'm having trouble finding time away from everything else going on in life to thank people for responding with lots of interesting information and opinions. Hope you are still lurking there somewhere :) Funny you should suggest the Ranger ... My longtime mechanic suggested the same... And he owns a beautiful Defender2 and a very stock and straight military Series2! - David knows a thing or two about Land Rovers and cars in general. He's so impressed he is contemplating trading in his beloved Disco on a Ranger.