Someone Is Telling Porkies.

[d2dave]

Today Julia Gillard had to give evidence under oath to a royal commission.

What the other party said under oath, she refutes under oath. So some one here is is lying under oath at a royal commission.

I have my views but due to forum rules if I disclose them could violate said rules.

[Slunnie]

The house renovation funding? The truth will come out with supporting evidence.

[clubagreenie]

You mean the files which weren't official logged files but general files for free work done for unions in exchange for referrals for paid work from the members.

[seano87]

Where there is smoke, there is fire...

[incisor]

so murdoch keeps trying to imply..

wasn't just union pro bono work that didn't have records...

but am sure the truth will set someone free in time...

they are all full of it and we need a federal icac imho

[TerryO]

Having previously been a union member in the building industry for many years and later on a contractor who had various run ins with corrupt unions officials who were constantly doing dodgy self serving deals I have no sympathy for any union crook who gets their arse nailed to the wall. In fact if someone offered me the opportunity to do the nailing I would jump at the opportunity.

Whether our ex prime minister did anything wrong I don't know and I bet neither does anyone else on this forum either. Will the truth come out and will justice be done?

In the end unless written proof one way or the other comes out no one other than those directly involved will ever know, no matter what the outcome.

[2stroke]

so murdoch keeps trying to imply..

wasn't just union pro bono work that didn't have records...

but am sure the truth will set someone free in time...

they are all full of it and we need a federal icac imho

Bit of a distraction from the Brough, Pyne, Abbott, Slipper fiasco?
Funny how all parties except Labor and Libs are saying bring on the federal ICAC.

[Hay Ewe]

I think they are all involved in all twisted stories that they have forgotten what they are actually there for.

[TerryO]

A little bit off topic, but still on a national ICAC type organisation.

I truly believe the only way to stop corruption at this level re dodgy Union slush funds and or illegal property developer donations etc etc is to have all large political parties funded by the State.

Sure it would cost many tens of millions of dollars a year but in the end politicians wouldn't have to do dodgy things to pay for their election campaigns.

The whole system needs an overhaul no matter what side of politics your on. To me it would be tax payer money well spent if it allowed politicians to focus on being the best government and or opposition they could be rather than how they are going to pay for their campaign and whose Union or big business arse they will have to kiss depending on what side of politics they are on to get enough funds to either get elected or reelected.

[Mick_Marsh]

A little bit off topic, but still on a national ICAC type organisation.

I truly believe the only way to stop corruption at this level re dodgy Union slush funds and or illegal property developer donations etc etc is to have all large political parties funded by the State.

Sure it would cost many tens of millions of dollars a year but in the end politicians wouldn't have to do dodgy things to pay for their election campaigns.

The whole system needs an overhaul no matter what side of politics your on. To me it would be tax payer money well spent if it allowed politicians to focus on being the best government and or opposition they could be rather than how they are going to pay for their campaign and whose Union or big business arse they will have to kiss depending in what side of politics they are on to get enough funds to either get elected or reelected.
Nah. Outsource them to India. Service might improve and it will be heaps cheaper.
We could outsource the whole public service as well.

[Slunnie]

A little bit off topic, but still on a national ICAC type organisation.

I truly believe the only way to stop corruption at this level re dodgy Union slush funds and or illegal property developer donations etc etc is to have all large political parties funded by the State.

Sure it would cost many tens of millions of dollars a year but in the end politicians wouldn't have to do dodgy things to pay for their election campaigns.

The whole system needs an overhaul no matter what side of politics your on. To me it would be tax payer money well spent if it allowed politicians to focus on being the best government and or opposition they could be rather than how they are going to pay for their campaign and whose Union or big business arse they will have to kiss depending in what side of politics they are on to get enough funds to either get elected or reelected.
It would need to go further as the currency would be media. But absolutely, there needs to be a shift towards a model of parliament that works effectively in the interests of the country.

[d2dave]

there needs to be a shift towards a model of parliament that works effectively in the interests of the country.

It will never happen. Hell will freeze over first.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

A little bit off topic, but still on a national ICAC type organisation.

I truly believe the only way to stop corruption at this level re dodgy Union slush funds and or illegal property developer donations etc etc is to have all large political parties funded by the State.

Rubbish, they and the advertising agencies will merely scam that and inflate the costs to the taxpayer.

Limit the amount they can spend on advertising and enforce the laws we already have. A Federal ICAC with real teeth to prosecute not just investigate.

[TerryO]

If they have fixed advertising budgets dependant on the number of votes they received at the last election, which is similar to payment systems their parties get now, then your actually got it completely back to front.
They wouldn't be over estimating costs rather under estimating to try and stretch the advertising dollar further and possibly pump it up a bit.

There seams to be this strange mentality in this country that politicians are some kind of alien non human animal or something and they are all crooks, liars and low life scum and sure some are, just like in all walks of life. However the majority are just normal people trying to be successful in their chosen field. Surely the Australian public at some stage will get sick of the BS and ask the question how do we stop this and the answer is simple. Change the bloody system on how party's are funded and what they can spend and the whole dynamic will change.

While people just want to bag the politicians and bleat about how they are all crooks then nothing will change and you all will just continue on being constantly disappointed. Rather than whinging change the bloody system that forced all parties to bend the rules to have any chance of getting into or staying in power.

I reckon most people would rather have politicians to hate and whinge about (just read the political posts on here for proof) than have a decent system that allowed then to focus on good policy rather than fund raising.

[incisor]

Rubbish, they and the advertising agencies will merely scam that and inflate the costs to the taxpayer.

Limit the amount they can spend on advertising and enforce the laws we already have. A Federal ICAC with real teeth to prosecute not just investigate.

let me guess

can you spell Brickworks :D:D:D:D:D

[incisor]

There seams to be this strange mentality in this country that politicians are some kind of alien non human animal or something and they are all crooks, liars and low life scum and sure some are, just like in all walks of life. However the majority are just normal people trying to be successful in their chosen field.
bit like unionists...

broad generalisations do nothing for any discussion...

[TerryO]

Nothing wrong with unionists, they are just the poor everyday working mugs who have direct debits of their wages weekly to support some union official who in many case it would seam not only just based on my experiences but plenty of others are just there to line there own pockets.

Again it's the system that is wrong and out dated and allows crooked people to take advantage of situations and rip off their usually lowly paid members, who like in most unions have no say on how their union is run or by whom. Personally I think it stinks.

As for broad generalisations if you want I could list personal experience of watching corrupt union officials at work from when I was an apprentice in NZ all the way through several building industry related jobs here in Australia to owning and running my own plumbing business. So while many others offer opinion on things like this based on watching TV and reading news papers and their own political lean I have seen and experienced it myself on many occasions and seriously it stinks.

[Redback]

I'll say one thing for her, she's a tough ol' girl, never took a backward step.

I don't think we'll ever know, but if it does come out, I hope they throw the book at her and anyone else involved.

For now I'll give her the benifit of doubt

Baz.

[bob10]

Nothing wrong with unionists, they are just the poor everyday working mugs who have direct debits of their wages weekly to support some union official who in many case it would seam not only just based on my experiences but plenty of others are just there to line there own pockets.


.


I have to disagree, at least from my experience. During my 25 years in the Post Office, with about seven of those as a Union rep, in the office, I found the Union is only as strong as the members in it. All members have the opportunity to get involved in electing officials, all members have the right to stand up & be heard, either thru the workplace rep. , or at meetings at the Union office. Where the system falls down, is when apathy takes over, & members take no interest in their Union.


Unions & Management can settle disputes without resorting to aggression, by sitting down, & talking the problem through, at least that's how we did it. I saw enough in my time to realise that if there were no Unions, it would be open slather on workers conditions. What used to annoy me was, workers not in the Union would gladly accept any benefits the Union negotiated , couldn't put their hand out fast enough, as a matter of fact. But ask them to make a stand on a genuine issue, they were no where to be found. Bob

[incisor]

I'll say one thing for her, she's a tough ol' girl, never took a backward step.

I don't think we'll ever know, but if it does come out, I hope they throw the book at her and anyone else involved.

For now I'll give her the benifit of doubt

Baz.


yeah

have to agree

i am no fan of her at all

but there was no smoking gun no new "facts" or "evidence"

just the same stuff that has been rehashed time and time again since 1995 by the murdoch press and her other detractors.

just a couple that fell on their swords and recanted previous testimony against her.

[TerryO]

Bob I hear you and in an ideal work environment that is how it would work. I'm not anti union as I believe every power base needs an opposing power base to keep things fair and hopefully on an even keel for the people in the middle.

However unlike a stable work environment like the Post office was, in the building industry where workers come and go from site to site and building sites come and go there is so much opportunity for rogues to flourish and that is what has happened. Plus it's not to hard to extort money from a builder who needs a job finished to get paid, they are soft targets, where as trying to extort a government employee I would guess is likely to end in tears.

[bob10]

Bob I hear you and in an ideal work environment that is how it would work. I'm not anti union as I believe every power base needs an opposing power base to keep things fair and hopefully on an even keel for the people in the middle.

However unlike a stable work environment like the Post office was in the building industry where workers come and go from site to site and building sites come and go there is so much opportunity for rogues to flourish and that is what has happened.


I have to agree with you. The building industry, like the wharfies, can attract some pretty tough people. I have had relatives, & good friends, working on the waterfront here in Brisbane. When I worked in the Valley, out of the old Valley Post Office, Friday I used to walk to the Breakfast Creek Hotel, & have a beer or two with some of them. Some of the stories I heard made me realise any moderate person working on the wharf, would have to keep his mouth shut, & head down. In those days, Painters & Dockers were in the news, there would be trouble in Melbourne, perhaps shots fired, next thing there would be a few new workers in Brisbane for a while. No questions asked, mouth shut, & head down.


The Brekkie creek in those days was no place for yuppies, they would end up in the creek, Bob :D

[ramblingboy42]

I agree with Inc.

Where is the evidence?

Everything is heresay and innuendo.

It appears to me if you like the ranga she's straight , if you like the mad monk she's crooked.

Under oath two persons can be telling the truth even though the responses are different.

It's evidence that's required......if that is not forthcoming then the case is probably closed.

[TerryO]

Bob we got to stop this agreeing with each other, it's not right.

How about we start talking rugby! .... :twisted:

[bob10]

Bob we got to stop this agreeing with each other, it's not right.

How about we start talking rugby! .... :twisted:




I am currently making the sign of the cross at the monitor. The forces of darkness are approaching, Bob :angel:

[TerryO]

Just accept it Bob ... Ritchie is god and beyond a doubt the best player in the world! ... :p

That should get the ball rolling. ... ;)

[Tank]

A little bit off topic, but still on a national ICAC type organisation.

I truly believe the only way to stop corruption at this level re dodgy Union slush funds and or illegal property developer donations etc etc is to have all large political parties funded by the State.

Sure it would cost many tens of millions of dollars a year but in the end politicians wouldn't have to do dodgy things to pay for their election campaigns.

The whole system needs an overhaul no matter what side of politics your on. To me it would be tax payer money well spent if it allowed politicians to focus on being the best government and or opposition they could be rather than how they are going to pay for their campaign and whose Union or big business arse they will have to kiss depending on what side of politics they are on to get enough funds to either get elected or reelected.
Terry, nothing will stop Corrupt Politicians accepting under the counter money from Corrupt business seeking illegal favours, funding by the State will benefit only the corrupt bastards, Regards Frank.

[DiscoMick]

Nothing significantly new has been unearthed by this royal commission, just as nothing significantly new was found by the $20 million 'pink batts' royal commission into those deaths, which had already been thoroughly examined by two state coroners. We already knew all we needed to know.
Could it be that its all just political witchhunting designed to embarrass people such as Gillard, and there actually is nothing corrupt to uncover? You mean our government, cheered on by lazy media shock jocks looking for easy headlines, would waste our money smearing its opponents - surely not!