More Landys unreliable myths in 4WD Action

[DiscoMick]

I was pleased to see an impressive Defender included in the latest 4WD Action's 'Best used tourers under $30k' feature, until I actually read it.
Once again, some lazy writer has just recycled the same old same old unreliability myth. The excuse given was that the particular Defender had a leaky airbox after having just had a head rebuild. According to the yarn, that meant that 'the Defender's reliability is the one cloud that hangs over it.'
What a load of illogical garbage! Think about that for a minute. It has had some work done and there was a little airbox leak. How does that prove anything about reliability? Its a workmanship maintenance issue.
Every single motor vehicle in the world needs maintenance and the quality of that work affects its reliability - every single vehicle.
The in-built bias of the writer's thinking is reinforced by contrasting it with another report in the same magazine about their Hervey Bay trip which reveals that Shaun's 60 series had not one, not two, but three major issues in the three days of the trip. The issues were: his alternator died; the 60 broke a CV; it sheared off the hub bolts and threw a rear axle out the side. So, three major issues, all more serious than the Defender's airbox leak.
So, where were the statements in that story about 60 series being unreliable? There were none. Why? Because breakages on old trucks don't prove anything about reliability. They're just old trucks and things break. However, you can bet, if Shaun had been driving a Defender, there would have been repeated comments about Land Rovers being unreliable, but because he's in a Toyota, not a word was said. Talk about embedded bias.
I thought about emailing the magazine, but I know they wouldn't admit their bias because they probably can't even see it, and they wouldn't print the critical letter anyway, so I'm posting it here. I've come down with the flu overnight, and I'm feeling particularly grumpy, so that's end of my rant. Off to make a late breakfast.
Cheerio.
Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Dizza]

I have stopped reading their magazine. I am still subscribed though, i do enjoy the DVDs with the short hairy bloke in the SWB Patrol.

I have been subscribed for years, even wrote a travel article or two for them a while back. When their boss (Charles Vella) bought into the 4x4 accessory industry the magazine took a bad turn.

A lot of their comparos used to be a good read. As soon as they owned products that were in competition with the likes of ARB, TJM etc. The comparo articles stopped. They didn't want their cheap products embarrassed by the better quality Australian products.

They seem to hate anything without a 26 inch lift, 60inch tyres and a Toymota or Nissan badge. It really shows how little they really know.

[bob10]

I'm sure Shaun & the crew write those reports, just to get a giggle out of the outrage expressed on Land Rover forums . Let's face it they make their living from Toyota, & Nissan. Knocking Land Rovers, brain washing punters who spend a lot of money on their [ jap.] vehicles, keeps them in a job. I feel sorry for them, because they will never know, will they ? Bob
:twobeers:

[windsock]

I've come down with the flu overnight, and I'm feeling particularly grumpy

No ****! I hear you. Had a flu for 10 days then back at work a week to then come down with a common cold... :(

Equal parts single malt scotch, lemon juice and very hot water with a blob of honey and a pinch of cayenne pepper. Stir. Sip till gone and start again.

Worked for me a few weeks ago, got a very nice warm doze going and sorted the foul mood at the same time. Your mileage may vary... ;)

[Doc130]

Regarding 4wd action!
When Jamie ( jts) was on the show, they use to poke fun at him at any chance they could about land rovers. But what the DID NOT show was the numerous recoveries, and in some cases Jamie's defender 130 towing these jokers with camper trailers through serious 4wd tracks due to their vehicle either being incapable or broken! Makes me laugh, but at the end of the day they can put what they want on their show! Hence the reason for Roothy and Jamie to not be apart of 4 wd action any more. These guys want to keep things real, and stick to what works, not just say it does on the camera coz they have to ! Go the landy's

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I know. I'm seriously considering whether to renew my subscription or not. There are alternatives I could support.
Don't these people realise it just undermines their reputation when they print myths recycled by lazy writers who apparently have little personal knowledge and just fill the space with stuff they've heard? People who know the truth just shake their heads.
Jamie's Defenders were the stars of the DVDs he appeared in, but I assume he wasn't prepared to keep putting money into the trips.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[rangietragic]

I stopped buying the mag 12 months or so ago,got boring.You can only see so many nissotas with bull bar,winch and 33's.Bought one of their pumps which was highly reccomended,projecta typhoon.Within a couple of months the guage stopped working,you have to hold the tyre clip on by hand or it just leaks,and pumping up a 32 from about 20 psi [had a slow leak],the fuse holder melted.Also went through some of their hervey bay trip near lenthalls dam,that is about 8 kays north of maryborough!No way near hervey bay!They can't even get the location right.

[DiscoMick]

This article I'm whingeing about is an example of how they recycle so many ideas every 12 months or so. How many 'Toyotas are great' raves does one have to read in a lifetime?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[bsperka]

I hate I 'built' my TRUCK. No, Toyota, Nissan, Land Rover or other corporation built your vehicle; you customised / modified it, sometimes illegally. With a uhf, bars, tyres and a lift. What's that - it has a new audio system - WOW. AND you put a new exhaust on it. And more screens than mission control. Can't see through the windscreen but why would you want to do that anyway? this is unbelievable- no wonder its in the magazine. But yes, most of them are in deed TRUCKS, especially the old, crappy 4wds that they worship. And have modified with more modern vehicle brakes, steering, engine, gearbox, lights, suspension, seats etc. Just like the grandfather's axe. Btw: I call my Disco a car or vehicle, as it doesn't drive like a truck.
And who cares what the people in the magazine do/drive/eat. Just lazy. And they can't give solid advice on anything younger than 1990.
Look, a hill - could be tricky. A muddy section (that the support vehicle/s has already gotten through/ around)- we got bogged. The funniest one was when they didn't take the road that was in view and couldn't make the exit plus had a breakdown. Wtf? Finally get to a fantastic view/ destination - don't want to show that.

[Robmacca]

Coming from the Toyota Darkside (& I still own one + a little Zook), I guess I had my blinkers on and didn't think too much about Landrovers & I was aware of all the comments about them too... until my cousin bought a '97 Disco and took me for a drive in it..... That little drive changed my opinion and put me on the road to research them and eventually find and buy my 1st Disco. I'm still very green to the whole LR thing but so far I'm enjoying driving it and learning more about them & how they work....... I'm now on the receiving end of these comments, just today, I went out on a day run with my Zook club & when I rocked up the 1st comment was "Don't worry, Joe Bloggs has his full tool kit ready for u to call on when needed". I just smiled and kept my comments to myself..... Later on that day we stopped for lunch at a lake and this old fella rocks up in what was a "2-day" old Defender.... It was interesting to watch some of the guys look at it and ask questions, etc. It was my 1st time/chance to see a new Defender up close and I must say, I was impressed. If u were wanting a good "basic" reliable touring vehicle, than this was it.... I came away actually considering one as a future touring vehicle....but I was disappointed to hear that they are stopped being made as of next year so the fella told me :( Even the NEW price sounded reasonable....
I asked about electronics in them and what happens if u get stuck in a deep river crossing, etc. He told me what a lot of the forum guys do and it sounded like a easy solution....

Anyhow, I hate to say it, but I could go a defender as a remote tourer some time down the track.... if they turn out to be reliable in the long run as 2nd hand will be my only option.....

[Doc130]

A defender is one of, if not the most capable vehicle straight out of the factory, you cannot go wrong with it if you actual want to use it as a 4wd. In regard to price, well there's absolutely no comparison. A new hilux is worth more than a new defender, and when talking about 4 wd capability, again no comparison! And in regard to productions, it's only the 90 that's being finished up. The 110 is still up in the air, and the 130 ( I believe is the best touring vehicle of all once setup) is still continuing for now.

[Robmacca]

A defender is one of, if not the most capable vehicle straight out of the factory, you cannot go wrong with it if you actual want to use it as a 4wd. In regard to price, well there's absolutely no comparison. A new hilux is worth more than a new defender, and when talking about 4 wd capability, again no comparison! And in regard to productions, it's only the 90 that's being finished up. The 110 is still up in the air, and the 130 ( I believe is the best touring vehicle of all once setup) is still continuing for now.

Ok.... good to hear..... I know very little about the Defenders, but sounds like I need to learn more :)

[Steve223]

Ok.... good to hear..... I know very little about the Defenders, but sounds like I need to learn more :)


I have a D2 as a play car and since January a 2006 Defender 110 as a tourer and absolutely love the truck ( it does drive like a truck) but I would not trade if for anything else.

Personally I still think as a tourer it needs some modifications but which car does not. In the Nissan & Toyota dominated 4wd club I'm in, my Landies usually pull the other brands out and do the recovery....

[Randylandy]

I don't mind them putting the landys down. We all know better. I laugh to myself at times when my mate has just bought a 80 series cruiser and has had to spend nearly 20 grand just to make it capable to do the same as what a landy would do straight out of the box. Let those on the dark side stay there I say, less competition for parts and keeps our costs down.

As for the magazine I have been increasingly annoyed with it as all the articles seem to be just regurgitating old articles over and over. If it was not for the DVDs I would not buy it anymore which is a real shame as have been buying it since the day of milo and Otis where on the cover.

[UncleHo]

The current Defender is a very competent vehicle,I have a friend that has a 2013 model, with the Ford 2.2 litre diesel motor and 6 speed transmission,very good air con and ABS he is very happy with it,it also has a very good quality sound and ICE system, he took it to the 65th Landrover anniversary get together in Melrose SA last year (to run it in :))it's all standard and it was fitted with "Continental Cross Contact" tyres off the floor and side steps, only mods he has done is an ARB front bar,ARB full roof rack ARB,and Terrafirma rear corner protectors (the old style grab handles have been dropped) to say that he is a happy puppy is an understatement :)


cheers

[Robmacca]

The current Defender is a very competent vehicle,I have a friend that has a 2013 model, with the Ford 2.2 litre diesel motor and 6 speed transmission,very good air con and ABS he is very happy with it,it also has a very good quality sound and ICE system, he took it to the 65th Landrover anniversary get together in Melrose SA last year (to run it in :))it's all standard and it was fitted with "Continental Cross Contact" tyres off the floor and side steps, only mods he has done is an ARB front bar,ARB full roof rack ARB,and Terrafirma rear corner protectors (the old style grab handles have been dropped) to say that he is a happy puppy is an understatement :)


cheers

The old fella today had a good looking Goodyear Wrangler MT 235/85/16 on his Defender.... nice looking tyre. Even thought about asking him if he would consider swapping tyres :)

[Doc130]

Since owning my defender 130 I have had great pleasure converting two of my good mates that have driven toyotas for over 15 years. One now drives a 130 and one drives a 110 7 seater which pulls a camper. The selling point for one of my mates and his wife was ngkala rocks bypass on Fraser Island bout one year ago..... Mate had a fully worked Toyota prado with every mod on it, towing his camper trailer, I knew it would be interesting to see if he could pull it over ngkala because we were planning on camping at the sandy cape( tip of Fraser)and had great fun stirring him up all the way up the island. As we got to ngkala the " land cruiser club" were finally getting themselves out of the mess that they told us they had been in for 4 hours and we're stressing to us that we wouldn't make it because the sand was so soft ( December) and we were crazy to attempt it because it will be dark in hour or so.... "Fair enough " I said to the guys that looked exhausted, but in my head I was quietly confident(this is where a defender comes into its own). Dropped the tyre pressures to 15 psi and the guys were saying your kidding yourself as obviously they realised I was going to have a go... The fully loaded 130 done it with ease, making these guys look like jokers. Knowing my truck, and realising how easy it drove it, I told my mate in his prado with the camper trailer (1400kg) to have a go and I'll come back if you need. He got about half way which was about the same as where the cruiser club guys got to, however every cruiser that tried snatching was getting bogged( so 5 cruisers were bogged in this spot where now my mates bogged). So I came back but being a one way track I was unable to turn around. So had not much choice to REVERSE snatch a prado and trailer and drag them over in REVERSE!! We made it to camp all good before dark!! Moral of the story is now this same mate now owns a defender 110 and we recently went back to fraser for the same test(ngkala) and what do you know, the 110 pulled the camper over with ease. People with no idea can poke fun at landy's all the time, buts it's times like this I just wish there were more Toyota owners around to see it.

[Robmacca]

Can I ask what year Defenders you and your mates end up getting?


Since owning my defender 130 I have had great pleasure converting two of my good mates that have driven toyotas for over 15 years. One now drives a 130 and one drives a 110 7 seater which pulls a camper. The selling point for one of my mates and his wife was ngkala rocks bypass on Fraser Island bout one year ago..... Mate had a fully worked Toyota prado with every mod on it, towing his camper trailer, I knew it would be interesting to see if he could pull it over ngkala because we were planning on camping at the sandy cape( tip of Fraser)and had great fun stirring him up all the way up the island. As we got to ngkala the " land cruiser club" were finally getting themselves out of the mess that they told us they had been in for 4 hours and we're stressing to us that we wouldn't make it because the sand was so soft ( December) and we were crazy to attempt it because it will be dark in hour or so.... "Fair enough " I said to the guys that looked exhausted, but in my head I was quietly confident(this is where a defender comes into its own). Dropped the tyre pressures to 15 psi and the guys were saying your kidding yourself as obviously they realised I was going to have a go... The fully loaded 130 done it with ease, making these guys look like jokers. Knowing my truck, and realising how easy it drove it, I told my mate in his prado with the camper trailer (1400kg) to have a go and I'll come back if you need. He got about half way which was about the same as where the cruiser club guys got to, however every cruiser that tried snatching was getting bogged( so 5 cruisers were bogged in this spot where now my mates bogged). So I came back but being a one way track I was unable to turn around. So had not much choice to REVERSE snatch a prado and trailer and drag them over in REVERSE!! We made it to camp all good before dark!! Moral of the story is now this same mate now owns a defender 110 and we recently went back to fraser for the same test(ngkala) and what do you know, the 110 pulled the camper over with ease. People with no idea can poke fun at landy's all the time, buts it's times like this I just wish there were more Toyota owners around to see it.

[nat_89]

I was reading one 4WD magazine a few months ago that was doing its best 4WD of the year section and i think it was 200 series first Prado second and D4 third and one of the negatives they put was D4 reliability issues of old, it never let them down during the whole test and was a great car but they still marked it down for reliability just shook my head idiots. I cant remember why the rest of it or what magazine it was but was thinking for goodness sake if it didn't let you down on the test then how can you mark it down for perceived reliability ahwell i guess we all have the last laugh the ones who own them and love driving them hahaha

[Doc130]

My defenders 2012, mates 130 2011, and other mates 110 2014. All pumas!

[4x4 MORE]

I understand your frustration Disco Mick:(

They did seem a little harsh on the poor old Land rover due to a leaking airbox..:angel:

People who own Toyota's and Nissan's[ lets face it most Aussie's do!:eek:]

Constantly have a go at or are critical of Jeeps, Land rover's and Suzuki's

Even 4wd mags!;)

[Rosco8]

Sad .. I think that English cars in general have that stigma of unreliability. Experience though said otherwise, drove a Woolsley for a year in 1976, what a great car. And most impressive for me was the hired mini mokes we used to use for pig shooting in the swamps outside Darwin, those things went everywhere and when you bogged you jumped out and just lifted them out !!! Once we got home, dogs, guns and humans out, hose them out and return them to the rental company. Very under rated vehicles.

Work mate in the early 70's brought the landcruiser, wow did it suck his wallet dry, and once it got real muddy it just just sunk like the titanic. Many hours spent hand winching the bugger out. Never impressed me. However, my next brother (Diesel fitter) down has always run early diesel hiluxes, he was based in Gove for many years and used to do Gove to Darwin every year. One solid vehicle.

Closer to home, I was heading out of Stockton quite a few years ago in my Pajero .. electronics were fighting against its self and I couldn't get over the big dune on the southern exit, it just kept on digging itself in, time and time again. Watched a Landy go around me and nip straight over .. damm I thought. Worked my way around the side, but file note .. Landy.

My 1st Landrover, series 2a was a gutless wonder. Had sand tyres which I swapped on for Fraser, aircraft tyres actually and with a load I couldn't get over the headland either. Went south off loaded and camped. Once she was light no problems, could get anywhere. Way too slow on the bitumen, the trip from Canberra to Fraser seemed to take forever. Every 10 km sign seemed to take forever. Sold it back to the guy I brought it off. Taken many years to look at Landrovers again.

Haven't put my Perentie to a serious test yet but have no reservations, she's an impressive truck. She belts along on the freeways with what ever load I have on-board, trailer and all, luv' that Izuzu. Apart from rattling windows which totally drives me up the wall and leaves me deaf for a couple of hours she is one very capable beast. But then again you guys are well converted and far more knowledgeable than me so just saying :D:D

[digger]

Coming from the Toyota Darkside (& I still own one + a little Zook), I guess I had my blinkers on and didn't think too much about Landrovers & I was aware of all the comments about them too... until my cousin bought a '97 Disco and took me for a drive in it..... That little drive changed my opinion and put me on the road to research them and eventually find and buy my 1st Disco. I'm still very green to the whole LR thing but so far I'm enjoying driving it and learning more about them & how they work....... I'm now on the receiving end of these comments, just today, I went out on a day run with my Zook club & when I rocked up the 1st comment was "Don't worry, Joe Bloggs has his full tool kit ready for u to call on when needed". I just smiled and kept my comments to myself..... Later on that day we stopped for lunch at a lake and this old fella rocks up in what was a "2-day" old Defender.... It was interesting to watch some of the guys look at it and ask questions, etc. It was my 1st time/chance to see a new Defender up close and I must say, I was impressed. If u were wanting a good "basic" reliable touring vehicle, than this was it.... I came away actually considering one as a future touring vehicle....but I was disappointed to hear that they are stopped being made as of next year so the fella told me :( Even the NEW price sounded reasonable....
I asked about electronics in them and what happens if u get stuck in a deep river crossing, etc. He told me what a lot of the forum guys do and it sounded like a easy solution....

Anyhow, I hate to say it, but I could go a defender as a remote tourer some time down the track.... if they turn out to be reliable in the long run as 2nd hand will be my only option.....


Mate,
I know its off topic but......
That font has to be one of the hardest Ive seen to read for a while...

[CraigE]

Why I generally stopped subscribing and buying Australian 4x4 magazines about 5 years ago. I will only buy them now if I see something that really interests me.
As stated you get a nice Land Rover write up and rig and then the whole story is totally destroyed by the idiot reporter or editor making totally ignorant, unfounded and plain incorrect statements. They do seem to however overlook the major deficiencies in Toyotas and Nissans when it suits them.
Basically now it is one big Toyota, ARB, Coopers Tyres and Engel ad, instead of real magazine.
If we maybe started up a true magazine, no one would buy Toyotas with all their problems or we would end up with no readers as they just could not face the true inadequacies of their 4x4s.

[CraigE]

I had similar today. Spent the day fishing off of Wite Hills Road and when off the beach airing up had a Brand New Ranger and a late model 200 series pull up. Got chatting with them all and they all commented on how good my Defender looked and how well set up it was. The 200 series had got bogged, not even close for the Defender.


Coming from the Toyota Darkside (& I still own one + a little Zook), I guess I had my blinkers on and didn't think too much about Landrovers & I was aware of all the comments about them too... until my cousin bought a '97 Disco and took me for a drive in it..... That little drive changed my opinion and put me on the road to research them and eventually find and buy my 1st Disco. I'm still very green to the whole LR thing but so far I'm enjoying driving it and learning more about them & how they work....... I'm now on the receiving end of these comments, just today, I went out on a day run with my Zook club & when I rocked up the 1st comment was "Don't worry, Joe Bloggs has his full tool kit ready for u to call on when needed". I just smiled and kept my comments to myself..... Later on that day we stopped for lunch at a lake and this old fella rocks up in what was a "2-day" old Defender.... It was interesting to watch some of the guys look at it and ask questions, etc. It was my 1st time/chance to see a new Defender up close and I must say, I was impressed. If u were wanting a good "basic" reliable touring vehicle, than this was it.... I came away actually considering one as a future touring vehicle....but I was disappointed to hear that they are stopped being made as of next year so the fella told me :( Even the NEW price sounded reasonable....
I asked about electronics in them and what happens if u get stuck in a deep river crossing, etc. He told me what a lot of the forum guys do and it sounded like a easy solution....

Anyhow, I hate to say it, but I could go a defender as a remote tourer some time down the track.... if they turn out to be reliable in the long run as 2nd hand will be my only option.....

[shanegtr]

I put a post up on my 80 series cruiser forum when I brought my D3, mainly just for ****s and giggles to see what sort of comments I could extract out of people - I wasn't surprised by most of them (the few positive comments did surprise me however:D) But the main vibe was reliability and comfort (and most of the comfort posts where based on early series LR)
Anyway this thread has got me thinking, is there any particular land rover that's responsible for the unreliability myths? Considering the early exploration feats of Len Beadell and use of them by the milatary, how is it that the masses have all ended up in Toyota and nissans and not land rovers

[3toes]

I would say Toyota diesel 6 cylinder engine when Land Rover offering was very under powered. Also supply with Toyota available months quicker than Land Rover. They had a chance to claw this back when the 110 coil sprung was released with the Isuzu diesel whomever also needed to widen the body by 2 inches. And dress the interior a little to make it look ' modern'.

[Bushie]

.................................................. ..how is it that the masses have all ended up in Toyota and nissans and not land rovers

Better marketing by Nissota :D:D


Martyn

[rumman43]

This is just my opinion. BUT
what I really dislike about the mags now is when the cover spews forth headlines of "this V's that, "Shootout" "Full test" etc. I get all excited and buy the magazine.
read the article and its not a test!!! its a high level observation that reads like the brochure and after 1 or 2 page devoted to the subject ends with.
VERDICT..
"both good, no real winner".

[DiscoMick]

I don't even own a Defender but I can still see how uninformed some of their comments are. There's a reason why Defenders are so sought after by long-distance overlanders - they're rugged, capable and relatively inexpensive to run.

I have a laugh when they say Discos and RRs are too electronic now to take in the bush, but say nothng about the fact that 200s and Prados are also very electronic. Apparently LR's electronics can't be trusted, but Toyota's electroncs are OK. Strange logic.

I get Pat Callinan's quarterly mag and enjoy it - quality writing and photography.
I also buy 4 x 4 Australia sometimes and its pretty solid.
I do enjoy some of the stuff in 4WD Action, particularly the 'how to' articles when the writers obviously knows their stuff and I can learn something, and the DVDs are fun.
I see they're trying to shift people onto their new digital edition for half-price, but I like printed mags and don't want to fill up my laptop or tablet's memory with mags.
There's a reason they've been very successful and full credit to them for that because publishing is a tough game and you have to know your market or you can go down quickly. Maybe I'm not their market, as I'm more interested in overlanding than in building monster trucks to climb rocks.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[bsperka]

Anyway this thread has got me thinking, is there any particular land rover that's responsible for the unreliability myths? Considering the early exploration feats of Len Beadell and use of them by the milatary, how is it that the masses have all ended up in Toyota and nissans and not land rovers
I think it was the series 2 Land Rover and a concerted effort from Toyota. It's all about marketing. eg Hilux is "unbreakable"- yeah, right, but was as slow as a wet week. Landcrusher was used in the Snowies - all 3 of them and they all failed.
I remember all the journos waiting for the new Landcruiser as the 55 was as rough as guts, riveted frame etc. 60 wasn't much better but they raved about it. This was a car with a name aligned to Land Rover. Popularity is due to Thiess using a lot in their business, selling them off and the boom in 4wding starting in the late 70s. Landies back then weren't comfortable compared to Toyota, popularity grew, myths started.

[ATH]

The Cook and I have just done a 12K trip through the top of WA including the GRR, the NT using the Mereenie Loop and down through SA and back home.
Never a hitch and no punctures but we were overtaken a few times by others at warp speeds......and one shredded a tyre.:D
The vehicle got a new transfer box under warranty because of a noisy bearing but nothing other major.
4th Landie, first was a Disco1 completely reliable, then 2 Deafeners, new Td5 then a 300Tdi. Td5 had a TPO prob in Newman but LR got it back and paid us airfares etc.
300Tdi was bought as it didn't have a computer but I sold it as it was gutless.
Compared to our boys 200 series Landcruiser our Landies have been virtually fault free.
AlanH.
PS. We did have a Prado for 4 years or so, completely reliable but oh so easy to scratch and dent.

[JDNSW]

.......
Anyway this thread has got me thinking, is there any particular land rover that's responsible for the unreliability myths? Considering the early exploration feats of Len Beadell and use of them by the milatary, how is it that the masses have all ended up in Toyota and nissans and not land rovers

It started in the 1960s, and the origins are easy to find. Until about 1973, Rover was unable to produce enough Landrovers to meet demand. As a result they rationed supplies to each market. Through much of the 1960s, the Australian Army took most of the Australian ration, so that long waits were the order of the day.

This is why Thiess looked for an alternative, which they found in the Landcruiser. Because quicker delivery was possible, they were able to rapidly gain a substantial share of the market after Theiss went into the business of selling as well as importing for their own use. Another factor in their favour was the use of a larger six cylinder engine (remember diesels were not widely used in four wheel drives - and Landrover were the only one offering them), but also they produced a longer (121") wheelbase version with a higher payload than Landrover. A slightly wider track and roomier body also helped. But with a three speed gearbox, appalling steering, and numerous reliability issues, they also had their problems.

Meanwhile, Landrover, by now part of Leyland, and, in fact, the only part of that conglomerate making money, did little to respond to this competition, introducing only a small six and the V8 and coil springs far too late. In contrast, Toyota, with a growing market, were responsive to the market demands.

I suspect that most of the reputation for relative reliability comes from owners replacing an aging Landrover with a new Toyota, although the poor performance of Landrover Australia and its predecessors in customer relations has hardly helped.

John

[DiscoMick]

Even now, LR easily sells every vehicle it brings into this country, meaning the demand outstrips the supply, particularly for the Defender.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[copba]

Even when the article isn't about one brand over another they can't help them selves.

I was reading an article about rust preventention in 4WD's and the arcticle started something along the lines of........... "in any farmers field you'll find 40 series Cruisers, G60 Pootrols, and old Land Rovers; and with the exception of the Land Rover were all cracking 4WD's in their day". It then went on how these wonderfull Jap 4WD's would still be going if they weren't buggered by rust. :eek:

I think thats about the last time I've bought one of their magazines, it really annoyed me, and wrong on so many levels; as others have pointed out old Cruisers were not very good.

And the article itself had very little useful information about rust prevention.

[boa]

Personally I part of the problem, reliability is also due to the fact that a lot of people over stretching the vehicle at the time. Look at the old leyland brothers films. How overweight were they and top heavy. Broken axels etc. But marketing was the killer as such. Feed the people what they want to hear and you win.

[isuzurover]

It started in the 1960s, and the origins are easy to find. Until about 1973, Rover was unable to produce enough Landrovers to meet demand. As a result they rationed supplies to each market. Through much of the 1960s, the Australian Army took most of the Australian ration, so that long waits were the order of the day.

This is why Thiess looked for an alternative, which they found in the Landcruiser. Because quicker delivery was possible, they were able to rapidly gain a substantial share of the market after Theiss went into the business of selling as well as importing for their own use. Another factor in their favour was the use of a larger six cylinder engine (remember diesels were not widely used in four wheel drives - and Landrover were the only one offering them), but also they produced a longer (121") wheelbase version with a higher payload than Landrover. A slightly wider track and roomier body also helped. But with a three speed gearbox, appalling steering, and numerous reliability issues, they also had their problems.

Meanwhile, Landrover, by now part of Leyland, and, in fact, the only part of that conglomerate making money, did little to respond to this competition, introducing only a small six and the V8 and coil springs far too late. In contrast, Toyota, with a growing market, were responsive to the market demands.

I suspect that most of the reputation for relative reliability comes from owners replacing an aging Landrover with a new Toyota, although the poor performance of Landrover Australia and its predecessors in customer relations has hardly helped.

John

That is part of the story...

Theiss started imports in 1958. The LCs back as you say were 3 speed and not that good or reliable, but they did have a better engine the LR had on offer at the time (in fact LR would not have a comparable petrol till 1967... and diesel never in the utility models - except the ISUZU variant in AU).

LWB Landrovers already were becoming known for axle failures - a problem which would also not be properly rectified until 1967-71.

LR had the attitude that the colonies should be grateful for whatever they produced, whereas toyota wanted the sales, so sent teams of engineers to Australia to investigate why they were breaking down so they could upgrade.

Now of course things are the other way around. Any old rubbish with a toyota badge will sell, theiss can charge whatever they want, and since they have their hand in a large portion of the mining and construction in AU can ensure industry sales remain high.

That said, I would trust an LC79 over a Puma to take me around Australia trouble free.

[4x4 MORE]

I don't even own a Defender but I can still see how uninformed some of their comments are. There's a reason why Defenders are so sought after by long-distance overlanders - they're rugged, capable and relatively inexpensive to run.

I have a laugh when they say Discos and RRs are too electronic now to take in the bush, but say nothng about the fact that 200s and Prados are also very electronic. Apparently LR's electronics can't be trusted, but Toyota's electroncs are OK. Strange logic.

I get Pat Callinan's quarterly mag and enjoy it - quality writing and photography.
I also buy 4 x 4 Australia sometimes and its pretty solid.
I do enjoy some of the stuff in 4WD Action, particularly the 'how to' articles when the writers obviously knows their stuff and I can learn something, and the DVDs are fun.
I see they're trying to shift people onto their new digital edition for half-price, but I like printed mags and don't want to fill up my laptop or tablet's memory with mags.
There's a reason they've been very successful and full credit to them for that because publishing is a tough game and you have to know your market or you can go down quickly. Maybe I'm not their market, as I'm more interested in overlanding than in building monster trucks to climb rocks.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app


I aree..the same goes for me:)

[rijidij]

............ how is it that the masses have all ended up in Toyota and nissans and not land rovers




Better marketing by Nissota :D:D


Martyn

A few years ago, Toyotas advertising budget for just the Kluger was as much as LRA's budget for the whole Land Rover range, this came directly from the president of LRA at the time.
Cheers, Murray

[carlschmid2002]

I did a trip up to Cape Melville last year with the Cairns Land Rover Club. A few hours north of Cooktown we stopped at some little inlet. There was a bit of a camp set up on the beach that someone actually lived in. The bloke turned up whilst we were leaving in a rusty old 40 series ute with a cattle dog on the passenger seat. He stopped to say G'day and his first words were "you blokes must know a good mechanic" I could only laugh. It was one of the funny moments. As much as I love my MY12 Defencer 90 it has not been without problems. I have owned hiluxes and two 40 series SWB in the past. I have enjoyed all of the vehicles, but I must say the Defender has the best off road ability and comfort. That bloke at the beach still made me laugh. If we can't laugh at ourselves life would be pretty serious.

[Toxic_Avenger]

This afternoon, I was towing our 14' skiff up the ramp to the sailing club on its dolly trailer. had it in low 1 idling while the mrs walked alongside making sure the mast didn't drop off the back.
Smartarse cruiser driver at the clubhouse said "those landy's aren't that fast, are they".
They are great vehicles in my book, and that's all that matters.

On a differnt note, was driving home the other day and saw a brand new Jeep cherokee sporting the demonstrator dealer plates which had failed to proceed in a busy intersection. I made the point of telling the bloke who was directing traffic "he bought a jeep?"... so I guess it's all relative. we are all car snobs in some way

[DiscoMick]

I saw a 200 series on a tow truck the other day, so obviously all Toyotas are crap - yes?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[goingbush]

I can't believe there are LandRover owners who actually think their vehicles are reliable. You guys are all in Denial ... sheesh

Don't get me wrong I love them and can't wait to be in a position to buy myself another 90 , but I know Im going to have to work at keeping it on the road.

[scarry]

so obviously all Toyotas are crap - yes?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

We have two tojo hi ace work vans bought new '09,both done around 175k each,dealer serviced,both petrol/LPG.
Faults so far
One radiator full of pin holes.
Fuel injectors replaced in both.
Diff bearings in one(only two diffs available in the country)so much for parts availability.
Seatbelts in both replaced,not retracting.
Waterpump replaced last week in the one i drive.
Factory fitted towbars on both very rusty during warranty period,manufacturer not interested in rectifying issue.


On the plus side,neither use any oil,brakes haven't been touched on either,they do a lot of around town work,loaded.

But compared to the Mitsy vans i ran for the last 18yrs,the Mitsys were way more reliable,but nowhere near as nice to drive and used a lot more fuel,even though they were smaller and lighter.

As for LR's,never really had a major issue,in fact the D2a i had for 8 yrs,and did thousands of off road k's,never missed a beat,was actually one of the best vehicles i ever owned,until the D4 arrived.

[benji]

I don't buy the Japanese reliability myth, not for a second. If a fuse blows on a tojo is a dodgy fuse, if one blows on a rangie is typical lucas electrics... even though almost everything on mine is bosch. ..
I wad told yesterday that as there's liners in the 3.9 and later motors, they need to be replaced every 180, 000km.

In fact the only time I've borrowed a jap car it was either shagged at 250, 000 or sat in my shed being fixed.

I've had friends get great runs out of prados etc, but they pay through the nose for servicing.
But my uncle who's got a d3 has serviced his to landowners schedule and is been trouble free too.



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[RVR110]

I got a bit weary of 4WD Action about 18 months ago. I didn't like the attitude of the magazine so I decided to vote with my wallet and let my subscription lapse.

Out of curiosity I bought a copy at the news agent yesterday. I must say that I was disappointed - they were just rehashing the same tired old content... the same destinations, the same modifications and the same tips, all described using the same mind numbing redneck vernacular. It will be a while before I have another look.
:angel:

[wrinklearthur]

I stopped subscribing when the stories narrowed down to two makes and their choice of gutter mount awnings.
Then I gave away the complete set of magazines I had to a charity and I never regretted it.

[shanegtr]

Its amazes me how 4wd action actually sell any mags. On so many forums you read that people have stopped buying them or letting their subscription lapse etc... (and always for the same reasons). Must be all the bogans getting out of falcodores and into 4wding buying it..........

[Tombie]

That said, I would trust an LC79 over a Puma to take me around Australia trouble free.


I wouldn't!

See those damn things crap themselves all the time..

Oil guzzling, gearbox, suspension, diffs, CVs, Steering... You name it..

And they are horrible in soft stuff and mud!

[Tombie]

Aside from a replacement dash pad my current landy has done 60,000 completely issue free kms

I'd take it anywhere. No doubts at all.

[Homestar]

I can't believe there are LandRover owners who actually think their vehicles are reliable. You guys are all in Denial ... sheesh

Don't get me wrong I love them and can't wait to be in a position to buy myself another 90 , but I know Im going to have to work at keeping it on the road.

Some may be in denial, but I'll tell you my experience. 85 RRC - been in the family 19 years now, never - I mean never - left anyone on the side of the road or required a tow. Never in 350KKM needed anything doing to it other than servicing and wear any tear items - brakes, tyres, etc. engine was replaced by me recently as the 3.5 was worn out from towing a van and boat for most of its life. Next is my 101 - done thousands of KM since I've owned it, and never had an issue that's stopped it - just normal stuff for 40 year old vehicle. Then there's the L322 Rangie - what can I say? It's been on a tilt tray more time than I can count...:D. So, in a nutshell, not all Land Rovers are reliable, but I do own 2 that are - and I'm not in denial, there's decades of fact behind it.:)

[JDNSW]

My 110 has now carried me over half a million kilometres all over the country. The only times it has actually stopped me have been when I ran a tank out of fuel and had to bleed it. Only real manufacturing faults have been a split wheel, and a front radius arm came loose from the chassis due to a missing weld (which had lasted for 400,000km without trouble). Neither of these were show stoppers.

There have been plenty of minor problems, often things that you woould not expect on some other cars, but none of them have been major, and, of course, there has been a few major repairs due to the mileage, including a clutch and a gearbox overhaul. Also some significant panel repairs involving roos and trees, but you can't blame the vehicle for that.

I had no hesitation in driving to Perth and back a few years ago, and as expected, the only problems were two tyres and a chipped windscreen.

My forty-five year old 2a has had only one show stopper since I have had it - faulty coil that to my knowledge was twenty-five years old, and quite likely original. And I am planning a five hour drive each way to Sydney next week for the Expo without any qualms.

So my experience does not support any reliability issues.

John

[BMKal]

Same here. Only thing that I've ever experienced that was close to a show stopper was when the gearbox on the old 2 door Rangie gave up the ghost.

But it still got me home (had one forward gear still working) and then to a workshop where I pulled it out and sent it off to Perth for a re-build. Cost a few dollars to fix it - but no more then others I knew who had similar problems with Toyotas at around the same time.

Other than that, I've had no problems at all with the Rangie and now three consecutive Disco's. The D2 is still in the family - and has recently need a new starter motor, but was still driveable ......... :D

[DiscoMick]

A lot of the content has certainly become bogan-friendly lately.

[Robmacca]

I enjoy reading reports from people that have had their LR's from new and can give "real-life" experiences as to how reliable (or not) the vehicles have been from day dot..... I'm assuming there's not too many people out there that keep their vehicles from new and have racked up over 500,000kms+ in their cars..... ??

The Disco I recently purchased has over 312,000kms on the clock but as to the vehicles history and how reliable it has or has not been is obviously unknown to me. From looking at the receipts, it's had some money spent on it in the past like a new injection pump, etc, but it still seems to have plenty of life left in it and I hoping to have a trouble-free time while I own it on the proviso that I do the usual servicing, etc...... hopefully.


Would be good to hear from some more LR owners that have racked up some major kms in their vehicles and can speak from 1st hand as to their reliability (or not).....

[edddo]

I bought a D1 in 2005 and drove it from 100000km to 180000km with no reliability problems. It was written off in an accident. I used the proceeds to buy another d1 with 170000km on the clock. It now has 255000km on it. Other than an auto tranny that failed prematurely most likley due to lack of servicing ( did it himself apparently) by previous owner ( he towed with it too) I have had no reliability issues just a few bits and pieces needing attention but you get that on a 16yo car.
I am very happy with the reliability of my D1's-and a lot of the kms are fully loaded outback and also many trips into the vic alps.

[Steve223]

we picked up a Defender TD5 2005 from Perth which a mate bought. 170.000k on clock and we drove back to Sydney in 3 days with the to us unknown car without any issues beside a loose headlight relay which was fixed within 5 mins by us

[Tombie]

A lot of the content has certainly become bogan-friendly lately.


On here too and especially on the FB Landy pages... :)

[PAT303]

On here too and especially on the FB Landy pages... :)

Nup,just Land Rover owners who post nothing but negative comments about vehicles they don't own,drive or have any experience with,your first reply on this thread is a case in point. Pat

[Disco Muppet]

Nup,just Land Rover owners who post nothing but negative comments about vehicles they don't own,drive or have any experience with,your first reply on this thread is a case in point. Pat

I think you've misinterpreted Mike's comment...
His comments about oil consumption, gearboxes, CVs, steering, etc were directed at the LC79, which Isuzurover said he'd trust to take him around Australia over a Puma.
Tombie's ordered a Puma, doncha know? :cool:

And the Land Rover FB pages have become flooded with bogans who go out, smash their vehicles and cover them in bogan as **** stickers like 'panty dropper'.
Sad :(
REAL Land Rover owners don't need to advertise the fact that Landies get the ladies :cool: ;)

[Tombie]

Nup,just Land Rover owners who post nothing but negative comments about vehicles they don't own,drive or have any experience with,your first reply on this thread is a case in point. Pat


Oh Pat, you are kidding right? You're just having a lend...

I drive those Land Cruisers all the time for work, as well as 200s, Prados, Hilux, Ford Ranger, we've even had a mine spec Amarok for a while.

So in this case... I doubt I lack experience, knowledge etc in my statement...

We even owned a 70 series cruiser (was my wifes) for a while...

I don't believe they are any better at inspiring confidence offroad or onroad compared to any offering from any other manufacturer...

[brettphillips43]

Havent read it yet cobber, tho i have to admitt that that mag in general doesnt like Landy's. They used to hate it when Jamies rig was used to help out anyone. But hey... every now and then they put a Landy in the mag or on the dvd. One of the main reasons we still purchase it monthly.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[PAT303]

I stuffed my reply up obviously,my post was pointing to the LC79 v TDCi comment and the numerous modern electrics will die in the bush crap. Pat

[CraigE]

Ok there is some good natured LR ribbing and some bad. Personally reliability wise i think LRs are no less or no more reliable than any other marque. I have not had any show stoppers in any of my LRs, but also have not with Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi, The closest was a 5th gear bearing in the Pajero but have seen mid to catastrophic in all brands.
My 97 tdi bought new had no dramas at all. The biggest drama I had was bad fuel, flakes of paint in the tank that blocked to pick up and some minor warranty recalls.
84 RRC bought about 2004 and had for 3 years. For a plus 20 yo old car no real problems. Throttle cable came off linkage at times but was a Gas Research setup not LR. LPG convertor would freeze on cold mornings but again not a LR issue. Replaced lifters, not unusual. Some minor wear and tear items but nothing out there. Normal oil leaks all fixed easily.
2000 Defender TD5, bought in 2005 and have had since. No show stoppers. Oil in harness x 2, leaking fuel pressure reg. Normal oil leaks. Some preventative maintenance, replaced clutch & flywheel at 180,000 and replaced dowels with steel head gasket (nothing wrong with), Glow Plugs just starting to die. Oil pimp bolt checked but ok. The rest has been upgrades etc more than anything.

[DiscoMick]

REAL Land Rover owners don't need to advertise the fact that Landies get the ladies

I like that thought. Don't let it go.