Making EAS Height calibration blocks

[Hammer H]

Hi All

I'm thinking of making some height calibration blocks. Have searched online and found diagrams and details showing/describing them being round and fitting into the bump stops.

My question is can they be made more simply, by using 4x2 wood blocks and removing the bump stops?

Paul

[daf11e]

I know what you mean by simple, but wouldn't it be just as easy to cut up some 30mm heavy duty Perspex rod ?

[p38arover]

I guess you found my diagrams. They are designed to be used with T4 aka Testbook.

I can't see why you couldn't use timber blocks.

See RANGE ROVER P38A SUSPENSION SET UP AND CALIBRATION (English Version) (http://www.rangerovermaniac.com/index.php/articoli-tecnici/item/80-range-rover-p38a-suspension-set-up-and-calibration.html)

[Hoges]

Short answer: Yes
Medium answer: Yes with some changes

Rather than use 4x2, I used a 1.8m length of 28.5mm diameter (finished size) dowel ...Tasmanian oak from the local hardware store. I examined it carefully for splits (there were none).

I cut the dowel into the following lengths, based on the calibration numbers in the LR EAS Systems Information Document ...the slightly longer lengths for each set are the rear axle -bump stop distances)

2 x 145mm
2 x 140mm

2 x 105mm
2 x 100mm

2 x 80mm
2 x 75mm

2 x 40mm
2 x 35mm

The 28.5 mm diameter is a neat fit through the hole in the bump stop.

I didn't make a hollow in one end of each "rod" to accommodate the end of the bump stop.

I had some early concerns about the ability of the rods to take the weight of the vehicle, however I used the following calculations and there is a reasonable safety margin...(of approx. x2 min)

The compression point of Tasmanian Oak is listed as 60Mpa or 611.8 kg/sq cm.

A 28.5mm diameter dowel has an end surface are of 6.3 sq cm

Max. weight scenario:

Say the vehicle weighs around 2400kg (full fuel, bull bar + a load of 'stuff' on board), this equates to 600kg per corner.

The dowel block at each corner is experiencing a load of 600kg/6.3 sq cm or 95.2 kg/sq cm which is a safety margin of approx. 6.4 (i.e. 611.8kg/95.2) assuming the weight of the vehicle is evenly spread across the end of each dowel.

It is not.

The weight of the vehicle is being transmitted through the tip of the bump stop stud, which is significantly less than the 6.3 sq cm. area of the dowel

So, say the tip of the bump stop is 2 sq cm, then the total weight acting as a force on each dowel is 600kg/2 sq cm = 300kg/sq cm which is about half the theoretical collapse point of the dowel.
That is for a well loaded vehicle.
Obviously if the vehicle is closer to standard "kerb weight" which is about 2200kg or less then the safety margin improves.

What I did was to set the highest dowels in place first, take the 'bit' readings as the reference points, jack the vehicle a little at each corner and substitute the next set and gently lower the jack so that the bump stop did not "crash" onto the dowels..

sorry for the long post:angel:

[Hoges]

I know what you mean by simple, but wouldn't it be just as easy to cut up some 30mm heavy duty Perspex rod ?

Nylon rod seems to be the preferred choice, I'm not sure if Perspex rod would have the same compression strength as nylon..

[daf11e]

Agreed hoges, my thoughts were something of that type of material cut to size would not be difficult and fit into the bumpstops

[Dougal]

Can't you guys just run around with a tape measure? Works well for my classic eas.

[davidsonsm]

I tried the blocks, using an assortment of 6mm, 12mm thick plywood & other thickness blocks of 2"x 2" to get the gaps required. But ended up sacking it. Using a tape measure on the wheel arches gets comparable results.

The key is to use a manual inflation (EAS bypass) set up & a workshop compressor to achieve the heights you require. Then obtain the height readings and write them to memory. Time consuming, but worth the effort.

[p38arover]

Using a tape measure on the wheel arches gets comparable results.

If using that method, measure from the arch to the centre of the wheel, not to the ground.

[davidsonsm]

If using that method, measure from the arch to the centre of the wheel, not to the ground.
Indeed. Correctamundo.

[Hoges]

Depends on how "accurate" you wish to be. The method for calibration of the EAS on the 1995-2001/2 models is different from the Classic. Specifically says in the LR SID for EAS not to use the "Classic" procedure for P38. The correct method for "post Classic" models is to calibrate the distance from the bump stop stub to the axle plate. The wheel arch to centre of wheel is a proxy measurement and assumes that the body is "true", that panels are correctly aligned and there is no shift in chassis alignment.

On this basis, if you want to be absolutely sure that the wheel arch to wheel centre is a true reflection, then simply put a set of standard height wooden blocks between the stub and axle and measure the wheel arch to wheel centre for each wheel. Note the reading for each corner...that becomes the reference reading for standard height...they might or might not be the same for each corner....just saying:angel:

[TheTree]

I used some perspex rod I got from the local bearing shop, but I am sure tassie Oak will be suitable

Steve

[Hammer H]

Thank you Gents.

4x2 is what i have available in the shed so I thought Id save myself a trip. But now converted to Nylon Rod if easy enough to source. Is this available at Bunning's or a specialist shop?

Interesting stats Hoges, that was my thoughts about the wood dowel, surely it would break under the weight. (myth busted).

Does the ground need to be perfectly level if setting the heights using this method as I would of thought the heights would be the same on level ground or not when sitting on calibration blocks.

Paul

[TheTree]

Thank you Gents.

4x2 is what i have available in the shed so I thought Id save myself a trip. But now converted to Nylon Rod if easy enough to source. Is this available at Bunning's or a specialist shop?

Interesting stats Hoges, that was my thoughts about the wood dowel, surely it would break under the weight. (myth busted).

Does the ground need to be perfectly level if setting the heights using this method as I would of thought the heights would be the same on level ground or not when sitting on calibration blocks.

Paul

Mate

I couldn't find it at Bunnings but my local bearing shop has it and so does a plastics shop.

Wood is incredibly strong under compression so I have no doubt it will do the job as long as it stays vertical

The official procedure says it has to be perfectly level ground but like you I can't quite see why !

Steve

[Bigbjorn]

Get some bright mild steel bar and face pieces to length. Usually obtainable in small pieces from the scrap bins at machine shops and engineering works.

[Dougal]

Depends on how "accurate" you wish to be. The method for calibration of the EAS on the 1995-2001/2 models is different from the Classic. Specifically says in the LR SID for EAS not to use the "Classic" procedure for P38. The correct method for "post Classic" models is to calibrate the distance from the bump stop stub to the axle plate. The wheel arch to centre of wheel is a proxy measurement and assumes that the body is "true", that panels are correctly aligned and there is no shift in chassis alignment.

Do they give any explanation of why not to use the classic method?

As for accuracy, you must keep in mind this is a body on chassis car and due to tolerance stack-up no two will measure exactly the same. Measuring from hub (or ground) to the body gives the result that is true to eye. Which is what actually matters.

I would expect the bump stop method is a lot harder for a below average tech to screw up. Which might have been landrovers aim. Particularly for markets scared of things like EAS (USA).


On this basis, if you want to be absolutely sure that the wheel arch to wheel centre is a true reflection, then simply put a set of standard height wooden blocks between the stub and axle and measure the wheel arch to wheel centre for each wheel. Note the reading for each corner...that becomes the reference reading for standard height...they might or might not be the same for each corner....just saying:angel:

Presuming the distance from bump-stop pad to axle centre-line is the same on each axle! They certainly aren't on the classics. On those the wheel arch is the only reliable way.

The readings for each corner aren't the same. I run a 10mm lean to drivers side to compensate for road camber.


Does the ground need to be perfectly level if setting the heights using this method as I would of thought the heights would be the same on level ground or not when sitting on calibration blocks.

Paul

Of course it does. You won't acheive anything useful with either method when parked on uneven ground.

[Pete38]

Hey Dougal. The beauty about the blocks is its much faster. Well it seemed that when I did it. With the tape measure method and pumping each corner when you pump one corner up it effects the others somewhat. So I've found to get it right takes quite a few attempts on each corner.

But with the blocks, you just let the air out and it sits on the blocks. Record the readings and its done. Only challenge was the high setting as you need to lift it higher to get the blocks out.

But in saying that, since the airbag lift and height extension mods, I did it with the tape measure as I needed new blocks and as you said all corners visually measure the same with this method as the gaps between tyre and guards weren't exactly the same using the bump stop method.

[Dougal]

Hey Dougal. The beauty about the blocks is its much faster. Well it seemed that when I did it. With the tape measure method and pumping each corner when you pump one corner up it effects the others somewhat. So I've found to get it right takes quite a few attempts on each corner.

But with the blocks, you just let the air out and it sits on the blocks. Record the readings and its done. Only challenge was the high setting as you need to lift it higher to get the blocks out.

But in saying that, since the airbag lift and height extension mods, I did it with the tape measure as I needed new blocks and as you said all corners visually measure the same with this method as the gaps between tyre and guards weren't exactly the same using the bump stop method.

Once you know how the EAS levels itself, the tape measure system is very quick. I can't imagine blocks being faster, even if they magically appeared cut to the right size.

The EAS levels off the rear axle. So you set the heights of the two rear corners first. Measure, tap, tap, measure and done for each rear corner.
Then the front measure one corner, adjust and then the other.

If the front starts cycling up and down it means a big mis-match (more than 2 bits different) between the front corner heights.

If you don't know how the vehicle levels you can waste a lot of time.

[Pete38]

Ah hadn't realised that. I think I've always adjusted the corner that's the furthest out. That might make things easier next time then. Cheers.

[TheTree]

I have read a few times that the guard method works but relies on the fact that the guards are aligned properly.

Steve

[Hammer H]

Looks like I'm converted back to the Tasmanian oak, after checking prices for Nylon rod and then finding some 28.5 mm Tasmanian oak in the shed rafters put away for a rainy day I reckon its meant to be.

Anybody out there with Gen 3s maxed out their High mode? I generally use Standard Height for off road (with 2 inch lift and 285/75s) and only use high mode for water crossings and inclines and departures. Thinking of setting the front to 2inches higher and rear 2-3.5 inches higher on high mode, but before i do, advice from others with experience doing this might save me some pain.

Paul

[Hoges]

Resetting the system to exploit the extra length on the Gen3s is a 'mystical art';) I haven't personally tried to set the system as you describe ...however.. a lot of reading I have done suggests that the firmware in the system operates not only on a range of absolute 'bit' values for each setting, but there seems to be a 'proportional' relationship governing the steps between the 4 major height settings.

For example, if you want to retain the existing access setting then the highway, standard and high settings respectively will be set accordingly. I suspect you can increase all the settings by a fixed amount, provided the relationship between the height setting ranges as defined in the firmware, is maintained, otherwise the whole system will default to "normal" values.

Storey Wilson of RSW solutions Welcome to RSW Solutions (http://www.rswsolutions.com/) has uploaded a series of videos explaining his free software and how to attain an all round increase in height... good luck with it!

[FANTOM P38]

Hi Paul,
There is a set range for each height setting, so as long as you keep tghe values within each range you can play around with each to achieve best reult for your preference.
I do have value noted down but not on this computer, I will look them out & post up soon.

e.g. I have 2" lift & GenII's & I have altered my settings so that in Acces/Hwy/Std they are at low end of available values then Offroad is closer to high end of values that way I get most gain from change between Std & Offroad as car sits high enough now in Std for most offroad situations then I can gain much more clearance for high obstacles etc in offroad. I find now with 33's & 2" lift that I don't need to use offroad much at all.

[Hammer H]

Thank you Gents,

FANTOM P38 If you could post those values that would be much appreciated.

Paul

[davidsonsm]

These are the ranges that the height sensors have to fall within:



And there is also mention in the easunlock instructions that the left to right settings may only vary between 1 and 10 points.

[davidsonsm]

Print and file for reference. Essential when playing with your EAS settings:

[Dougal]

These are the ranges that the height sensors have to fall within:



And there is also mention in the easunlock instructions that the left to right settings may only vary between 1 and 10 points.
The actual value depends on a dozen different measurements and their tolerances. Don't sweat at all about different values. Especially if one or more sensors have been replaced.

[TheTree]

This page has useful info as well

Air Suspension (http://www.mez.co.uk/p38-eas.html)

Steve

[Hammer H]

Alrighty, calibration blocks now made, have also made 2 extra sets for high mode, 1 set 1 inch higher and another set 2 inches higher than high mode.

Hopefully by the weekend I will find the time to play.

Will let you know how I go.

Thank you all again for your help.

Paul

[Pete38]

Now it's come back to me. For the high ones I just added packer blocks on the axle plate under the standard ones. Made it easier to get the high blocks out as you can tap them out off the flat axle plate.

[Hammer H]

Tasmanian oak calibration blocks get a big 10/10 for me. Its the only way to set the heights wont bother again wasting time with the guard method (could be the operator rather than the method).

The compressor stopped half way through the process i diagnosed it as the pressure sensor, lucky i had a spare one on hand from a previous valve block rebuild, replaced it and got things back on track.

Set the access, low and standard heights as per the book but increased the Extended height 1 inch plus all round, to take advantage on the gen 3s.

Tried extra two inches all round but found the fronts rose to expose the air bag clamps and Ive heard somewhere not to go above that height.
Also tried an extra two inches on the rears but the height sensors read 166 & 164 so out of range. At 1 inch extra they read 149 each so settled for that. Might try to extend my adjustable height sensors another time to get the two inchs. But reckon I will give it the acid test 1st before I play any more.

Thanks again all for you input.

[Dougal]

Also tried an extra two inches on the rears but the height sensors read 166 & 164 so out of range. At 1 inch extra they read 149 each so settled for that. Might try to extend my adjustable height sensors another time to get the two inchs. But reckon I will give it the acid test 1st before I play any more.

Thanks again all for you input.

Why are you concerned about reading out of range?

[Hammer H]

Hi Dougal,

from what I understand, if the readings went outside the sensor range eg extended height 105-150 for rear this would cause the system to go to a default value. Is that incorrect or is it the way Ive interpreted the information?

[Dougal]

Hi Dougal,

from what I understand, if the readings went outside the sensor range eg extended height 105-150 for rear this would cause the system to go to a default value. Is that incorrect or is it the way Ive interpreted the information?

I'd try it and see.

[Hoges]

In my experience, when the input "bit" number exceeds the range stored in the firmware, the EAS ECU may either throw a fault or default all settings to factory values and you have to start again...

[davidsonsm]

Yep. You get a fault and a reset to the default settings, undoing all your good work. So you have to ensure they're in range. Also ensure they're within 10 of each other left to right.

[Hammer H]

I did try set the rears to 165 while attached to the eas unlock and it would not let me, it returned to 145. Sounds like not worth trying again.

Thanks Guys.

Sean I had not heard of the within 10 side to side, thats good to know.

Sean have you used the standard heights or gone custom heights, we would have similar setups, particularly as my lift spacers are from your design thank you.

[Dougal]

In my experience, when the input "bit" number exceeds the range stored in the firmware, the EAS ECU may either throw a fault or default all settings to factory values and you have to start again...

So in that case, you could extend the push-rods to bring it into range as long as you can keep your other settings are also within range.

[davidsonsm]

I did try set the rears to 165 while attached to the eas unlock and it would not let me, it returned to 145. Sounds like not worth trying again.

Thanks Guys.

Sean I had not heard of the within 10 side to side, thats good to know.

Sean have you used the standard heights or gone custom heights, we would have similar setups, particularly as my lift spacers are from your design thank you.
My settings are what they are. There's no such thing as factory eas settings, only factory heights. Every sensor produces slightly different readings at a set height.

So my settings are dictated by the heights I've used. with an eye on the upper and lower limits of course.

[davidsonsm]

Hammer H - just read yours again. I guess mine ended up pretty much 2" above each of the factory heights. Except I've erred on the lower end if the scale for highway and standard.

I can post heights of you like.

[Hammer H]

So in that case, you could extend the push-rods to bring it into range as long as you can keep your other settings are also within range.

Good idea, think I will try that, but will probably try in a few weeks when I return from my next trip. and will also then have the time.

[Hammer H]

Hammer H - just read yours again. I guess mine ended up pretty much 2" above each of the factory heights. Except I've erred on the lower end if the scale for highway and standard.

I can post heights of you like.

Hi Sean, I would be interested in the heights, all mine are as per the cal blocks heights (sitting on top of the two inch lift) except extended 1 inch over cal blocks.

I notice stability at speed improves significantly going from standard to low (285/75s 2 inch lift) , so will see during this next trip if the possibility of going lower is a possibility to further improve stability.