Brake Rotors

[discovery4]

Dear All,


I have just had a 'health check' done at 38000 km on my 2013 SE D4 and have been told that the brake pads AND ROTORS front and back need replacement!


I was concerned that the rotors are wearing out faster than the tyres. No, I am not a harsh driver and have only towed a camper trailer (about 1 tonne) for a total of about 4000 km.


I am told the rotors are not covered under warranty and cannot be machined. Any comments from experienced owners?


Thank you
Bob

[BobD]

Doesn't sound correct. My D4 front rotors have just been replaced at 160,000km and the third set of pads were installed. The previous pads lasted from 80,000 to 160,000. The rears wear quicker on my car and I think the rotors were replaced at less than 100,000. I seem to use two sets of rear pads for one set of front.


I have a 3l SE with the larger brakes. Not sure what yours is but this may make some difference if you have the 2.7 with smaller brakes.


Bob

[101RRS]

They always say the rotors need doing and they may very well do - ask them to show you the numbers. They said mine needed replacing at 60,000km but I measured them and they were only a 1/3 worn - still going OK 30,000km later.

[Canaussie]

Min thickness of a D4 rotor is 27mm. I replaced my own at 60000km.

[discovery4]

Thanks for the comments


The reason the dealer is replacing the rotors is due to wheel vibration under braking. Mine is a D4 SE 3L MY13. They also said with the rotor change that the pads would be changed also.


Bob

[ytt105]

If replacement is required at 38k, due to vibration, I'd be saying that's a warranty issue!

[BobD]

I agree it is a warranty issue.


My 160,000km old rotors had zero vibration and I have done heaps of creek crossings at Cape York, Litchfield National Park, Power Line track in Perth, Kimberley Rivers etc etc. The only reason for replacement was wear close to the minimum limit at the time of the service.


Bob

[dazray]

I had my front rotors and pads replaced at 20,000km due to steering wheel vibration when braking. Have not had a problem since, now at 30,000km.
Originally reported problem at 18,500km, but took a while to get them to do it under warranty.

[jon3950]

The rotors can be machined, but the allowance is fairly small. I have just had my rear pads replaced and rotors skimmed at 52,000 km. However, if they are chasing a vibration then they may not have enough meat on them to machine.

That said, something doesn't sound quite right. Changing all 4 rotors to solve a vibration problem seems a bit lazy. If the vibration requires 4 new rotors at those kilometres, I would think a warranty claim should be worth pursuing.

Cheers,
Jon

[zilch]

94K in and on 2nd set on rear (recently machined) and 3rd set on front.. it also depends on where you drive, i did not need anything for the first 60K as mostly long distance driving, last 34K has been basically in and around Sydney so more wear and tear and hence time to change..

My first set on my MY06 Sport lasted a whole 19K :eek:

[ADMIRAL]

The rotors could quite possibly be warped, but as the lower rear arm bushes are a known weakness, i would have them checked. They are a large diameter bush, and have plenty of voiding to allow compliance with the movement possible with the air suspension. Generally if they are substandard, very light brake application will induce vibration. ( and it will feel like warped rotors )

[ADMIRAL]

The rotors could quite possibly be warped, but as the front lower rear of arm bushes are a known weakness, i would have them checked. They are a large diameter bush, and have plenty of voiding to allow compliance with the movement possible with the air suspension. Generally if they are substandard, very light brake application will induce vibration. ( and it will feel like warped rotors )

[discovery4]

Thanks everyone for your comments and thoughts. I will be pursuing LR for a warranty claim as I feel a vehicle of this quality should perform better than this.


I'll report back when finalised.


Thanks again.
Bob

[discovery4]

Hi All,


Just updating.


The advice from the local dealer after he referred it to Land Rover was that rotors are sacrificial and therefore not covered under warranty! I think that is very poor given that the rotors went out of alignment before the first brake pad change. I will be taking it up further with LR.


Regards
Bob

[duncanw]

From the symptoms you described it sounds like warped rotors.

Even brand new rotors can warp if you put enough heat into them. A common way is caused by riding your brakes down a hill.

Luckily it's a cheap fix.

Edit, you may have a sticky caliper. After you've been driving feel your front rims and see if one is hotter than the other. You might have a case for a warrenty job if it's sticking

[discovery4]

Thanks Duncanw. I will check out just in case.

[Tombie]

Lots of towing, left foot braking (and/or riding brake unknowingly), towing, excessively dusty environment, a dip into water when hot, mud run, beach driving, more serious braking (some people just brake later/harder than others), lots of hills and corners etc...

All causes of excessive wear and tear...

If you havent done any of the above then you should have a case...

[josh.huber]

Go to a brake shop and pay 1 hours labour and have them check the rotors. They might even machine them on vehicle by just taking off a tiny bit to get it sorted. I am with everyone else. Worn brakes your problem. Vibration there problem and all 4?? They're mental

[shanegtr]

Rotors should last more than one pad change regardless of the fact they are a consumable item

[RHS58]

Reported a slight shimmy under braking to the dealer at 34000km /18mth interim oil and filter service today.
Rotors found to be out of spec and replaced under warranty without question.

[joel0407]

Rotors should last more than one pad change regardless of the fact they are a consumable item

Not these days. My WRX went through a set of rotors for every set of pads.

I have found mechanics always tell me I need new pads when they are only about half gone. I have at least 2 sets of WRX pads at home with over 5mm of material still on them. I had been told the D2 needed new pads near everytime I'd been to the Mech for the last 6 months. Admittedly there was less than 1mm on one pad when I finally took them off last week but there was still plenty left on them 6 months ago. It's pretty easy to check with a torch in the side of the wheel.

Happy Days

[sctsprin]

I want to order new pads and rotors, does anyone have the part numbers for the OE parts, or size and shape pics etc?. I want to confirm i order the correct size and shape, as i'm looking at aftermarket parts such as remsa, bremtec etc etc. I'd prefer not to have to take a wheel off to work out what bits i need to order.

I have a 2011 sdv6 HSE and just intend to replace the front rotors with DBA T2 slotted and new pads

cheers
james

[joel0407]

I want to order new pads and rotors, does anyone have the part numbers for the OE parts, or size and shape pics etc?. I want to confirm i order the correct size and shape, as i'm looking at aftermarket parts such as remsa, bremtec etc etc. I'd prefer not to have to take a wheel off to work out what bits i need to order.

I have a 2011 sdv6 HSE and just intend to replace the front rotors with DBA T2 slotted and new pads

cheers
james

Why not just call Todd at Rapid RS. I just did a recent post in another thread. Apparently all the rotors in Australia come from the same place in China. It's just the company that does the finishing that's different. The premium you pay for the DBA name from their marketing.

Happy Days.

[ADMIRAL]

Why not just call Todd at Rapid RS. I just did a recent post in another thread. Apparently all the rotors in Australia come from the same place in China. It's just the company that does the finishing that's different. The premium you pay for the DBA name from their marketing.

Happy Days.

.....and the source of this gem of information ?

[joel0407]

.....and the source of this gem of information ?

From Todd himself. RDA and DBA will both tell you they manufacture their rotors in Australia. I didn't ask their definition of Manufacture though.

Blank casts are apparently sourced from China then all machining "manufaturing" work is done here in Australia for at least DBA, RDA and Rapid RS.

Here's a couple of links to DBA own website. There's no mention of casting the rotors, just manufacturing.

Our Achievements - ADB Brakes (http://adbbrakes.com/our-achievements/)

Our History - Australian Disc Brakes (http://adbbrakes.com/history/)

DBA look good and have had good marketing, RDA are about half the price, Rapid RS are the cheapest. Rapid RS are pretty popular with the weekend racers because they go through a few rotors and at the end of the day it's the same steel.

DBA have all these fang dangle things like heat senative paint that is no better than a $20 infa red themometer. 2 part rotors that look really cool and they claim you can save money by just replacing the rotor and reusing the hat but the rotor itself is still mor than the other 2 companies her in Australia.

Todd can do a few different groove paterns or dimples but a groove is a groove and the design is really just an apperance thing. His Ultimate gooves look the best to me with curved grooves and dimples but the down side is it takes the most metal away so it shortens the life of the rotor. The current set I have on order are just 8, straight slots.

Happy Days

[eddomak]

I want to order new pads and rotors, does anyone have the part numbers for the OE parts, or size and shape pics etc?. I want to confirm i order the correct size and shape, as i'm looking at aftermarket parts such as remsa, bremtec etc etc. I'd prefer not to have to take a wheel off to work out what bits i need to order.

I have a 2011 sdv6 HSE and just intend to replace the front rotors with DBA T2 slotted and new pads

cheers
james


Having just undergone this exercise myself in the last month...
DBA Front Rotors = DBA2096. (DBA2096S if you want slotted, but doesn't look like there is stock).

Remsa Front Pads - Part #1409.10. (They are NOT the 1158.00, which is for the Discovery 3, 2.7L)
They are very long and large with a noticeable curve and a little metal cyclinder on the end like this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

You will also probably need a single front sensor (near side only).

[joel0407]

Do you guys with short rotor and pad life tow?

I'm interested as I've heard the trailer stability control is that good that it will mask a poorly loaded trailer. As if a trailer was loaded with far too little or far too much ball weight it would cause the vehicle to sway sometime uncontrollably. The trailer stability control uses the brakes to counter the sway but it does it so fast the driver might not know it's happening. The vehicle might seem a little less powerful due the brakes being applied but that is expected anyway due to towing. I've heard (totally unconfirmed) that people have left Sydney with a poorly loaded trailer and worn out their brakes before Newcastle.

Happy Days

[sctsprin]

Is it really necessary to use a torque wrench for the rotor retaining bolt (35nm) and the calliper retaining bolts (270Nm) or is it safe enough to use sensible force?

[sctsprin]

How are the Remsa pads performing? any squeal or much dust?


Having just undergone this exercise myself in the last month...
DBA Front Rotors = DBA2096. (DBA2096S if you want slotted, but doesn't look like there is stock).

Remsa Front Pads - Part #1409.10. (They are NOT the 1158.00, which is for the Discovery 3, 2.7L)
They are very long and large with a noticeable curve and a little metal cyclinder on the end like this:
http://rangeroverdoctor.com/cart/images/FERODO-1.jpg

You will also probably need a single front sensor (near side only).

[eddomak]

How are the Remsa pads performing? any squeal or much dust?

It's a bit soon to tell, I've only had them on for 1 week and they are still bedding in. Hope to update the thread in a couple of week's time. No brake dust yet through. No squealing either, but it's early days.

I can say for certain that when I swapped to new DBA rotors with the original (worn) brake pads there was an instant improvement in the bite, so I am hoping that will be the case with the new pads later on.

[joel0407]

It's a bit soon to tell, I've only had them on for 1 week and they are still bedding in. Hope to update the thread in a couple of week's time. No brake dust yet through. No squealing either, but it's early days.

I can say for certain that when I swapped to new DBA rotors with the original (worn) brake pads there was an instant improvement in the bite, so I am hoping that will be the case with the new pads later on.



In the past I would always fit new pads if I fitted new rotors but that maybe just an old way of thinking for the way old brakes wore.

I think the theory behind it was that as rotors lasted multiple sets of pads, and the pads were the cheaper item. The new pads would wear the high points on an uneven disc. If the disc was replaced, you would want to maintain an even surface as long as possible and it wasn't good to fit uneven pads to new rotors.

Now days with rotors and pads wearing as quick as one another that might be obsolete thinking.

[eddomak]

In the past I would always fit new pads if I fitted new rotors but that maybe just an old way of thinking for the way old brakes wore.

I think the theory behind it was that as rotors lasted multiple sets of pads, and the pads were the cheaper item. The new pads would wear the high points on an uneven disc. If the disc was replaced, you would want to maintain an even surface as long as possible and it wasn't good to fit uneven pads to new rotors.

Now days with rotors wearing rotors and pads wearing as quick as one another that might be obsolete thinking.

UP FRONT DISCLAIMER: I am as in the dark as most people, so can't speak with any known, proveable authority at all. Happy to be politely and helpfully corrected. :)

I was going to replace get both new pads and new rotors fitted at the same time, as I have always had in the past, but due to some parts availability issues, fit the new discs 2 weeks or so before the new pads (and paid for labour twice. :( ) I, too, thought this would be good for them to bed in to each other.

However one of my knowledgeable and experienced performance car driving friends said that they tend to bed one thing in at a time - so that it is always a rough surface against the smooth surface, which would reduce the risk of glazing.

From my commoner's point of view (see disclaimer above) this seemed to make sense so long as it was a short while. But then again there are plenty of things that might seem to make sense, but actually are not the best thing to do. Oh well, I am sure I won't actually ever know the difference.

[Tombie]

RDA and DBA rotors are very different in regard to centre webbing design..

DBA are still making some blanks in Aus, RDA is complete import and then machined in AU.