Muscle In Disguise, 1967 Holden HR 186S 4-Speed

[disco man]

This car was in reality the first wolf in sheep's clothing available in Australia.
Story by Ben Stewart.

'Not before time' is a common enough saying.And so it was the case when GM-H finally got around to making the option of a four-on-the-floor gearshift available in the Holden.From early May 1967 production,two additional options were included in the HR series line-up-a new motor called the 186S (replacing the previous 186 X2) and an all-syncromesh 4-speed manual transmission featuring a floor-mounted shifter.

Perhaps unknowingly,Australia's largest car company had created a real rocket in terms of serious performance availiable to the everyday driver-male and female.Of greater interest is the notion that this car was in reality the first 'wolf in sheep's clothing'.If you believe the press release of June 18,the focus of the new 186S version of the 3049cc engine was in smoother running and an automatic choke,while the target customer for the new transmission was the owner who towed a boat trailer or caravan.Come on! That was only a small part of the story.

The one outward clue to what lurked within this plain-Jane Holden sedan was a small engine emblem in the form of a cross.Was this a case of RIP for anyone who came across one of these cars in a traffic light derby.Ever since Holdens had been availiable with an opitional (and bigger and more powerful) engine,a distinctive badge gave the game away.

There were no external clues to the transmission fitted.Nor was there any real indication when the engine was started.For many years motoring enthusiasts had been pressuring GM-H to include such a transmission.Rightly so,they felt the car would be improved with a 4-speed.The EH 179 manual had shown the potential of a relatively powerful engine in terms of overall performance,but the car was always limited in terms of appeal to the enthusiast who preferred a four-on-the-floor.The following HD model of 1965 had the option of an all-new 179 X2 engine featuring twin carburetors and other detail enhancements including a very sporty exhaust note,however something was still lacking in terms of making the Holden a true 'driver's car'.

Even from within the organisation itself,pleas were made to include such a transmission in the specifications.Rally ace Bob Watson,an engineering department employee,pushed for the availability so the company's cars were more competitive against the Ford's.Being a driver,Watson knew first-hand what was needed.

Whether it was a case of playing catch-up or merely teasing with a glimpse of what was coming in the 1968 HK series,the inclusion of a 4-speed manual on all passanger models in the HR range was well received.So well received,in fact,that the initial build run (believed to be 500-600) was all but gone instantly the announcement was made.Many interested buyers had to wait for subsequent production in order to get behind the wheel of a 4-speed Holden.

Motoring writers were excited with the claims the HR 186S was the best Holden yet.The SUN'S Peter Livingstone tested such a car and recorded a top speed of just above 100mph and the very rapid acceleration figures (for any 1967 car) of 0-60mph in 9.9 seconds and 0-70mph in 17.1 seconds.The standing quarter-mile time was 17.1 seconds.This is a Holden!?

"Smoother performance and a gearbox that's a delight to use add refreshing variety to the Holden stable," Livingstone enthused.The combination of the 145hp (108kw) 186S engine and the four-on-the-floor transmission was available in all HR Holdens except commercials.The 186S could be specified in a ute or van,but not the transmission.Deemed a little to fragile for serious duty commercial work,the inherent 'weakness' in the Holden application was known.Although a German Opel division design,the transmission was originally developed for four-cylinder applications.Putting it behind the 186S was perhaps stretching things a little too far,as some owners would learn in time.

Also available were power disc brakes and a limited slip differential that would ensure all the power to the ground effectively.This was a common build configuration and the best package,as far as performance went,in either Special or Premier sedans.Codes were assigned to be attached to the base model designation to make the task of ordering cars simpler than individually specifying each component from the ordering procedure.

The 'magic' code for the 186S engine four-speed manual,3.55 LSD axle,and power disc brakes was 1746.When added to either HR225 (special sedan) or HR235 (premier sedan),the desired car was produced.Easy.Many other,build configurations were on offer,including the alternative 3.36;1 rear axle,but 1746 is the one we will focus on here as most of the GM-H road test cars were equipped with this 'go package'.Disc brakes ensured it stopped as well as it went.The overall gearing ensured swift acceleration effortless overtaking,a high cruising speed and reasonable fuel economy.

The August 1967 issue of MODERN MOTOR noted,"We have no way of forecasting just how well it will go in competition-specifically the Gallaher 500 for which it was designed-but as a road car it is great."

The all-important figures obtained for the XR GT were;0-60mph in 9.4 seconds and 0-70mph in 13.1. Top speed was 110mph with the standing quarter-mile in 16 seconds.Fast for 1967,but one could have expected more from a V8 with a manufacturers claimed output of 225hp. The same issue of the magazine included a test of the HR Special sedan with the all-important 1746 code."Best Holden Yet" was the bold claim with the added tag line;"Long-awaited four-on-the-floor option,plus single carb replacement for X2 engine,make the 186S a real sizzler".
It was a 'special' Special sedan,with mention made of the noise level."The exhaust arrangments of the 186S differ from the X2.Twin headers of somewhat different design are retained,but the crisp muffler of the X2 has been replaced by one whose note will not offend anyone."

MODERN MOTOR covered 0-60mph in 11.3 seconds and 0-70 in 15.2.Top speed (one way) was 98mph with a standing quarter mile covered in 17.5 seconds,just 1.5 seconds behind the XR GT, which sported 80hp more."They make a Holden in this guise a very rapid motor car," the story explained. "Sure it doesn't have the towering performance of the Falcon GT,but its certainly no slouch......

I think this Holden deserves to be mentioned as a 'Muscle car' as it was one of the fastest Australian cars on the road in 1967,but that's just my thoughts how about you blokes?

[101RRS]

I think this Holden deserves to be mentioned as a 'Muscle car' as it was one of the fastest Australian cars on the road in 1967,but that's just my thoughts how about you blokes?

Except that the plain jane AP6 and VE Valiant in normal family guise could match it and then they also had a V8 that went better again - not sports models here just normal cars.

The Valiants of the mid 60s really did show how crap Holdens and Falcons were.

Garry

Oh as kids we used to prise off the Holden X2 and 186S badges to mount on our belt buckles. :o :cool:

[V8Ian]

Disco Man, does the source of your information offer anything about the EH S4? That was the original performance option by GM-H and from the 'Big Three'.

[Pickles2]

yes, the HR 186S was special.
If you had a 186S HR Premier, you had "THE CAR" in those days, & it didn't take much to get them going hard, REALLY hard.
Dave Bennett of Perfectune fame, simply put a Perfectune head on his 186S 4 speed Premier, which then became quicker to 100MPH than an XR GT. He actually bought the car back a few years ago from the person he sold it to, although He's probably onsold it now.
The weak point of the car was the Opel 4 speed which did not take kindly to hard useage.
Pickles.

[CraigE]

The HR was a good car and favoured by many in the late 70s and early 80s to do up. With a gearbox change and a little work to the engine they were quite a formidable car.
The Valiant slant 6 was better, The old man had one when I was a kid I dont think it was the AP6 but maybe slightly later. My Uncle had an XY with a 302 at the time (around 1977/78 I think) and the Valiant would blow the Falcon away easily.

[disco man]

Disco Man, does the source of your information offer anything about the EH S4? That was the original performance option by GM-H and from the 'Big Three'.

G'day Ian,Sorry mate there was no info on the EH S4.

[Bigbjorn]

A mate has a HR 186S 4 speed bought new when he came out of his apprenticeship as a plumber and drainer. He rarely drives it now and even keeps it locked up at another address, an investment property rented to his sister, as security against thieves who may be able to get his address from TMR. The car is fairly low mileage for something nearly 50 years old and as clean as the proverbial whistle always having been garaged.

[Pickles2]

The HR was a good car and favoured by many in the late 70s and early 80s to do up. With a gearbox change and a little work to the engine they were quite a formidable car.
The Valiant slant 6 was better, The old man had one when I was a kid I dont think it was the AP6 but maybe slightly later. My Uncle had an XY with a 302 at the time (around 1977/78 I think) and the Valiant would blow the Falcon away easily.
I have to disagree.
I'm old, & was "around" in those days.
Stock?, yes the Valiant, in a staight line was quicker, but, driving one around a corner?
However to get the Valiant engine "going", especially the slant six 225, was not easy, or cheap to modify, and there wasn't really alot of stuff around.
However, with the 186 engine, there was heaps of stuff, as there was for suspension, transmission, diff etc etc, whatever you wanted, you could find it.
There were huge numbers of hot Holden's around in those days,...can't ever remember seeing a modified 225.
Pickles.

[V8Ian]

EH Holden Specifications (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_EH_technical_specifications.htm)

[scarry]

Oh as kids we used to prise off the Holden X2 and 186S badges to mount on our belt buckles. :o :cool:

They still do it today,the HSV badges still disappear from a mates pride and joy:mad:

[CraigE]

I have to disagree.
I'm old, & was "around" in those days.
Stock?, yes the Valiant, in a staight line was quicker, but, driving one around a corner?
However to get the Valiant engine "going", especially the slant six 225, was not easy, or cheap to modify, and there wasn't really alot of stuff around.
However, with the 186 engine, there was heaps of stuff, as there was for suspension, transmission, diff etc etc, whatever you wanted, you could find it.
There were huge numbers of hot Holden's around in those days,...can't ever remember seeing a modified 225.
Pickles.

Hey mate,
I do agree there were a lot more performance mods easily available for the 186 not disputing or comparing this aspect. The HR was a great handling car and why HR front ends are utilised to this day on modified cars. There were so many HRs and variants of them in our family, as a kid I remember 5/6 of my Aunties and us having one all at the same time.
I am talking mid 70s to 82 not when a lot of these cars were new. There were quite a few modified Valiants around, mainly 6s, did not see too many 8s around.
Now I am not sure of whether I am talking the AP6 or Pacer as the old man had both when I was young probably around 10. I do remember clearly having a run against my Uncles XY 302 and the Valiant left the 302 for dead in a straight line and around corners and it was only a six so was either the AP6 225 slant or the 245 Pacer either. I am thinking maybe the Pacer. I will have to ask my Dad next time we speak.Wont go into the reasons why, but lets just say my Uncle was hot headed and always expected to get his own way.
He also had a 770 6 Pack Charger E37 I think, now that could go, triple side draught webbers. Spent our summer holiday touring in this charger, sad to say after he sold it in 78 some of our indigenous brothers bought it and trashed it completely. One of the saddest days as a kid was to see this. We were lucky as kids my Dad and Uncles knew all the dealers so got to sit in a lot of performance cars at the dealers and even some race cars namely Brocks 79 A9X, VC and VH Commodores (not the show cars but the race cars). Only wish cameras were more prevalent.

To put some context in those days the old man changed cars fairly frequently and as a kid have memories of so many cars. The few he did own that stuck out were Charger 770 6 pack, The Valiant Pacer and AP6, Prince Gloria (also had one recently, fairly rare car), Cortina MkII, EH Holden, EKs, HQ Holden only 202 but memorable for some reason, Volswagon Beetles (several), Volkswagon Wagon, Volkswagon Kaemen Ghia, Mini Cooper, Mini Standard, Mini Panelvan, SLR 5000, HQ 1 Tonner 308, Austin 1800, Morris 1100, Ford Prefect, Vauxhal Wyvern, TE Cortina, HR Holden sedan and wagon, 56 Chev, XM, XY and XF(outside the above mentioned time frame being 90) Falcons, HB, LC and LJ Toranas. Vauxhal Cresta and Victor. Mitsubishi Colt fastback late 60s model
And they are the ones I remember off the top of my head that I can remember as a kid from around 74-81 and usually not expensive big dollar cars. I do also vaguely remember a HK or HT monaro V8.

Prior to that were a lot more that I am sure my mum would probablly remember more than him, but I know there was also a 48-215 (FX) an EK with a Supercharged Chev (rare in the 60s), Mini Coopers a lot more earlier Holdens and Fords. He slowed up when we moved to WA in the early 80s.
He also rubs in a drive I dont remember in Adelaide when I was 2, My other Uncle was a salesman for a US car importer in Adelaide and my Dad and brother were in a new 70 Mercedes and myself and my Uncle in a big block Corvette Stingray, Hindley street drag and the vette ran 1/2 block with the front wheels off the ground. Different days.
My other Uncle referred to earlier was much worse and has had many more cars mainly Fords and just about every car Ford produced from Model As & Ts through to Tickford XR8s and everything in between including GTs GTHOs, Goss Falcons, XA GTs, Landaus, Mustangs including a DT Fastback he built from ground up. And every base model between.
The DJR truck was a regular at his house and he sent me photos of The 2 DJR EL and I think EB Falcons on his front lawn. He also had Allan Moffats XYGTHO at his house and at the time was actually up for sale, in the early 80s and even asked me if I wanted to buy it, as an apprentice at the time I could not afford it at $65K, imagine that. Same year got offered the Malboro Promo A9X at $19k but same as I already had the SS could not afford the A9X.
The other car that used to go quick was my other Uncle (No3) who was a Federal Police Inspector - he bought an XC fairmont 351 new and it was immediately customized, not sure if it was by Ford or a performance shop, but the Federal Police paid for the mods, but I doubt they would admit to it. That car was quick and in those days had hidden lights and I can account for it at full noise under lights and sirens. He has been gone for 17 years now so can probably talk about it.

[Pickles2]

Craig, great story mate, loved it,...good to speak to another "car man".
There was a 225 Valiant in Melbourne that I do remember, it was written up in several magazines at the time, it was an S Series, & it had a mega hot, mega dollar engine in it, triple webers etc, and IMMACULATE, I saw it competing at the Templestowe hillclimb.
A friend of mine Ray Miles (helped to build "THE SHAKER" Monaro funny car/drag car) had a VC Regal V8, a magnificent car, 273V8, & he imported some Weiand (spelt right?) stuff from the states, twin 4 barrel manifold etc, & then he built a magnificent dual exhaust for it where the dual exhausts exited via the rear bumper overriders! Ray also had a very quick Mercury Cyclone.
Pickles.

[isuzurover]

A mate has a HR 186S 4 speed bought new when he came out of his apprenticeship as a plumber and drainer. He rarely drives it now and even keeps it locked up at another address, an investment property rented to his sister, as security against thieves who may be able to get his address from TMR. The car is fairly low mileage for something nearly 50 years old and as clean as the proverbial whistle always having been garaged.

I am surprised brian. I expected your usual post about cars from this era of no technical merit with no competition history...

[101RRS]

There were huge numbers of hot Holden's around in those days,...can't ever remember seeing a modified 225.
Pickles.

Thats because you had to modify the rust bucket holdens to get them to go - the Valiants didn't need it. A performance Holden engine in 67 was still way behind the standard slant 6 - and of course a little later the HP version of the slant 6 came out.

A bit like a Toyota vs Landie argument - you have to modify a Crapota but not a Landie.

[Bigbjorn]

I am surprised brian. I expected your usual post about cars from this era of no technical merit with no competition history...

Well, I wouldn't bother with one. To me it is just an old Holden albeit a rare model, uncommon even when new and almost non-existent today. Some think they are worth a lot of money. Allan does, which is why he keeps it secured at his sister's home. They were once upon a time a target for thieves like Falcon GT's.

Its condition is a credit to him. Almost 50 years old and looks near new. Might even be the only clean original left. Has around 120,000 miles and has had little use in the past 15 years or so. He has been offered what I consider ridiculous sums of money for it but doesn't wish to sell.

He finished an apprenticeship with a domestic plumber in 1965 and was sacked. Soon after he started working on shutdowns and ship repair. He told me he started earning three times what he was paid as a fifth year apprentice and soon could afford a new car. He did what any cashed up 21 year old did and bought the hot model of the time. Then became self-employed and bought a ute, got married and bought a station wagon and the 186S got less and less use.

[Pickles2]

Thats because you had to modify the rust bucket holdens to get them to go - the Valiants didn't need it. A performance Holden engine in 67 was still way behind the standard slant 6 - and of course a little later the HP version of the slant 6 came out.

A bit like a Toyota vs Landie argument - you have to modify a Crapota but not a Landie.
Rust?,...well doesn't matter whether it's a Holden, a Ford, or a Chrysler product, rust was a massive problem in all of them.
As far as modified engines go, there was a lot more stuff for the Holden engine, and the 186/202 red motor was/is a ripper, as evidenced by that engine's "Herculean" efforts at Bathurst.
Actually, I don't think the 225 was a very good engine. The later 245 & particularly the 265,....well no argument from me there, particularly the E49, and the V8 E55 340 engine had enormous potential as evidenced in U.S. Trans Am racing.
But, the 225 engine, well looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
Perhaps you could tell me about what sort of mods you've seen on the 225, what sort of power etc, because the only one I can remember was the S Series I mentioned?
Pickles.

[101RRS]

I personally not see any mods other than standard mods for the 160hp and Pacer.

My point is that compared to the Holden and Ford 6 cylinders of the time - the 225s did not need mods as they already produced far more than the standard opposition and when the Holden engines were modded and hotted up it was only then they approached the standard family 225.

It was unfortunate that Chrysler did not take on the Holdens and the early Falcon GTs in the mid 60s as they would have whooped them.

It is also unfortunate that when Chrysler did decide to go racing it was in a 225 Pacer when at the time a standard Valiant Regal 770 with the asthmatic 318 Fireball would have performed better - but not as good as the 350 Monaros and 351 Falcons.

Garry

[Pickles2]

Well Gary, I don't see how you could say they would've "Whooped" them, because neither you nor I know what would have happened. Budget has a lot to do with it, as does homologation etc etc etc, so it's really an unknown situation, so what is your reason for saying that?
As an example, as I remember, the Charger E49, which was a REALLY good car, with the ultimate 6 cyl Chrysler engine (well with what we'd seen in Aus anyway) beat neither the Ford nor the Holden to 1st place at Bathurst. Why would you say that was?
Pickles.

[101RRS]

Yes - you are talking 71-73 where the subject of the thread is back in 1967. Yes I agree that the E38/E49 was a bit of a disappointment race result wise but as discussed in the E49 thread there are probably other reasons related to available drivers etc rather than the car itself. Was faster in some areas and slower in others.

However back to 1967, the base 225 had more power and torque in its basic form than the suped up Holden engines of the time.

The Valiant also had the small V8 as well that was better again - it had been around for a couple of years before the HR came out. I can remember giving my dad a hard time for getting a 225 instead of the V8 in his new AP6 in 1965.

It was only when Ford released their small V8 in about 66/67 that either Ford or Holden had engines outperformed the 225 let alone the V8.

[Pickles2]

OK 1967.
I still can only remember ONE modified 225, ..you have said you can't remember any? Why would that be?...Because there weren't many?...Why, because there wasn't much stuff around for that engine, which really wasn't amenable to mods.
In "straight line" acceleration, yes, whilst I haven't got any figures, I will not say that the 225 mightn't have been quicker in a straight line, but then of course Ford had the XR V8 at that time, & there's no way that the 225 Valiant was quicker than that, but then of course Chrysler had the 273 V8, which was certainly not as good as Ford's absolutely legendary 289 which is still being used & modified in road & race cars today.
And of course then there's handling,...I've never heard anyone say that a VE Valiant handled well, quite simply, because it didn't. It was the worst of the three.
Look, if you're a Chrysler man, We ain't never gonna agree, but I'm probably older than you, I was driving these cars at the time, so were my mates, we were ALL into cars, my best friend was the 1st person in Preston (a bed of hot cars in the 60s!) to place a red motor into an FC!
Most of the guys had Holdens, because they were Holdens I suppose, and there was HEAPS of stuff to make 'em go quicker......because there was a demand it. On the other hand, I can't remember seeing much if anything for the 225, why?..well one reason probably was that there was no demand for it.
Pickles.

[StephenF10]

...
It was a 'special' Special sedan,with mention made of the noise level."The exhaust arrangments of the 186S differ from the X2.Twin headers of somewhat different design are retained,but the crisp muffler of the X2 has been replaced by one whose note will not offend anyone."
...

And how disappointing it was. While the HD X2 had a nice crackle the 186S was nothing special. How good would it have been to have both the X2 note and the 4-speed box.

My father was a Holden dealer at the time. On one occasion I had to deliver a HD X2 from the factory to his country dealership. The customer had specified Pirelli Cinturatos so half way along the trip I had to call in at a tyre place and have the standard cross-plies replaced. Well, what a difference! The thing actually went around corners on my chosen line and the steering feel was transformed! From that day on I was a radial-tyre convert and would never have cross-plies again (until I later bought a GTS327 Monaro with Dunlop Sovereigns that I couldn't wear out quickly enough).

Stephen.

[101RRS]

And of course then there's handling,...I've never heard anyone say that a VE Valiant handled well, quite simply, because it didn't. It was the worst of the three.

In your Opinion :) Remember you are comparing Holden sports models with Valiant family cars.

Look, if you're a Chrysler man, We ain't never gonna agree, but I'm probably older than you, I was driving these cars at the time.

Maybe but I also drove the AP6, the VC, VE and VF at the time as well as some Holdens and Falcons. The Valiant did not feel as nimble but felt more solid and safer - a better quality vehicle.

Most of the guys had Holdens, because they were Holdens I suppose, and there was HEAPS of stuff to make 'em go quicker......because there was a demand it.

Holdens were cheap and nasty where the Valiants were more expensive. The Holdens needed heaps of stuff to make them go quicker and to get to respectable performance where the Valiants already had it built in

Yep - I agree - I think we agree to disgree.:D

[Pickles2]

That's the best way, I ain't particularly a Ford or Holden man, & as far as my favourite car of all time, well it's actually a Mopar, Dodge Challenger 426 Hemi R/T, so whilst I don't agree with everything you say on the Valiant, maybe We have some common ground here?
Pickles

[Ancient Mariner]

In 67 I fitted a brand new 289 to a 80" series one I was building up .Mum had a valiant at the time and my work ute was a FC with 186 triple SUs and Jag 4 speed box.In a straight line the LR was quicker .We wont discuss the twisty bits:D

AM

[Bigbjorn]

There was lots of speed equipment available for the Slant Six and there were quite a few very fast ones around Brisbane. The Chrysler factory team in the USA, Ramchargers, successfully drag raced them.

In the early sixties I took a break from fitting and turning and worked for a while for a syndicate of Brisbane used car dealers who bought at auction in Sydney. Cars were far cheaper there than in Brisbane and it was well worth while to buy there. We used to fly drivers down on Saturday morning and put them in a car at Burwood to deliver to a yard in Brisbane. We had a bench mark of 12 hours for the drive, crook roads, drum brakes, skinny cross ply retreads and all on well worn cars. New boys would grab a V8 or other big car. More fool them. They were paying for the fuel out of their twenty-five quid. I worked out that the best compromise was a Valiant Six. Not bad on fuel, and the AP5, AP6, VC were quite fast point to point cars. Soft, long travel suspension both ends works as well as stiff sports suspension. Vals were comfortable to drive fast. The best time I did in one was 10 1/2hours in an AP5 at a time when there was little heavy traffic either end. Best time ever was 8 3/4 hours in a 327 Camaro (drum brakes!!!!!!).

Not long after I accepted a job as a fleet manager with a sales organisation that had around seventy cars for reps, managers, executives. They had started converting to Valiants from a mix of Holden and Ford starting with the AP6 before my time and I was presented with a nearly all Valiant fleet of AP6 & VC. Base models for reps, 6 cyl. Regals for managers and V8's for execs. All were auto except for a few country reps who preferred three on the tree manuals. These were the most reliable and trouble free fleet I ever had to do with. The Slant Six lasted forever unless someone burst a water hose or holed a sump and kept driving. Torqueflites were never touched except for scheduled service. They were more economical to run than the opposition in spite of using a bit more fuel. The reps loved them and didn't deliberately abuse them like was done to makes they didn't like. Valiants were then an upmarket car and the reps thought this gave them some one-upmanship on rivals.

[jonesy63]

Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet... Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed, etc than any of these USA companies. Yankees - go home, we don't want your stinking rubbish here any more! :p

[101RRS]

Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed,

And rusted out within 12 months of ownership :o

[Bigbjorn]

Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet... Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed, etc than any of these USA companies. Yankees - go home, we don't want your stinking rubbish here any more! :p

Don't mention the poor reliability and high maintenance to misquote John Cleese. Very short term motor cars like Fiats and Renaults and Triumph Heralds. Self destroying vehicles. Dealers other than specialist sports car dealers wouldn't have a bar of an Alfa. They didn't take to being bounced around on Oz roads of the time and the heat and dust. The engines developed major combustion and water leaks at the head joint. Ask anybody who raced one. I will give credit to the gearbox design with the walnut shell design of the housing. Very easy to repair. Most Eurocrap had longevity problems here. Like their heavy trucks, much local engineering input was needed. Of course cars imported in small numbers by "distributors" whose interest was in quitting the stock quickly at good profit didn't get any local engineering.

And, the problem of getting anybody into them. They were designed for Mediterranean dwarfs with small feet. Try getting a full grown Australian couple and some kids and accoutrements into even the four door sedans.

[My Dream Car]

yes, the HR 186S was special.
If you had a 186S HR Premier, you had "THE CAR" in those days, & it didn't take much to get them going hard, REALLY hard.
Dave Bennett of Perfectune fame, simply put a Perfectune head on his 186S 4 speed Premier, which then became quicker to 100MPH than an XR GT. He actually bought the car back a few years ago from the person he sold it to, although He's probably onsold it now.
The weak point of the car was the Opel 4 speed which did not take kindly to hard useage.
Pickles.

Oh what great memories?

I actually owned a Holden HR Premier 186S Opel four speed.

I wanted one when it was first released, so by age of twenty in 1974, I found one of only seven that were registered in Perth.

It even had the rear wheel spats.

Pearlescent blue.

I added 6 inch chrome wheels and fat tyres.

It handled well enough, and went like a rocket.

Great memories of having "THE CAR"

:cool:

[Pickles2]

Oh what great memories?

I actually owned a Holden HR Premier 186S Opel four speed.

I wanted one when it was first released, so by age of twenty in 1974, I found one of only seven that were registered in Perth.

It even had the rear wheel spats.

Pearlescent blue.

I added 6 inch chrome wheels and fat tyres.

It handled well enough, and went like a rocket.

Great memories of having "THE CAR"

:cool:
Absolutely it was "THE CAR".
And, if you had it now, it'd be worth a damn sight more than when you sold it!!
Pickles.

[ozscott]

I had a 202 blue motor that i warmed over with a new cast Yella Terra head with a serious amount of porting and polishing and large valves. Sig Erson 3/4 roller rockers. Billeted Pro Cam from the US. Port matched manifolding. Balanced - fully even the harmonic balancer. Flat top pistons that gave xompression a kick. Steel timing chain set from a good manufacturer (cant recall brand now). Stock Strasbourg Varijet. Went like a rocket in my VH SLE Commodore. Left v8's off the line and rolling. Made 3.0 turbo VL 's look a bit anemic. I had a mate with a VL Police Pursuit from NSW - twin turbo and heaps of boost. That was quicker than mine. I loved the old holden straight 6's. My favourite stocker was the 161. Had a mildy warmed 149 bored to 161...nother story.

Cheers

[Pickles2]

I had a 202 blue motor that i warmed over with a new cast Yella Terra head with a serious amount of porting and polishing and large valves. Sig Erson 3/4 roller rockers. Billeted Pro Cam from the US. Port matched manifolding. Balanced - fully even the harmonic balancer. Flat top pistons that gave xompression a kick. Steel timing chain set from a good manufacturer (cant recall brand now). Stock Strasbourg Varijet. Went like a rocket in my VH SLE Commodore. Left v8's off the line and rolling. Made 3.0 turbo VL 's look a bit anemic. I had a mate with a VL Police Pursuit from NSW - twin turbo and heaps of boost. That was quicker than mine. I loved the old holden straight 6's. My favourite stocker was the 161. Had a mildy warmed 149 bored to 161...nother story.

Cheers
Sounds like a REALLY good engine mate, and "VH SLE"???...What an absolutely great car they were, and actually, still are,...one of the quietest & smoothest early Commodores that's for sure,.......can't remember the last time I saw a totally original one though.
"The Old days"! Pickles.

[steane]

My first car was a low mileage HK Monaro 186. Had 40k miles on it when I bought it in 1986 and it was like new.

Was a POS, both the engine and the pathetic little Opel gearbox. The car itself, despite being pampered, was rusty and nothing remotely special to drive.

Since then I've had a HQ with a 202 and that was a POS.

My auntie had a VB with the 202 and the Traumatic = POS

My father owned a VB with the 2.85 litre 6 and a manual = stupendous POS

I had a VH with a 202 = POS but it was the first Holden 6 with a bit of go and had a thirst to match

In my opinion the Holden 6 cylinder was, you guessed it, a POS.

So I tried a non-Holden 6 and bought a VL Turbo. Now that was a great engine, just a pity about the rubbish Holden body they wrapped around it. Went from that to a VL 6 cylinder non-turbo. Still a nice engine, still wrapped in crap.

At the same time my mate bought a VL Calais 5.0 litre and there wasn't a bigger steaming pile of poo you could actually pay money for. What a massive POS that thing was.

Massive as in huge.

Then came a VS Acclaim V6. Was a step up from the rattly V6 in the VN but it continued the pre VL trend of wrapping a dud engine in a woeful package, slapping on some shiny paint and convincing people they needed one. It was a nothing car. It bored me so much I used to forget where I parked it for weeks at a time.

I thought it might have improved by late last century so I bought a VT Clubsport. Nup...195 very tiny KWs (I'm convinced it was more like 95kw), a crap gear change a clutch action that created a knocking sound and it all cost $60k.

But then came the chevs and finally a semi decent car. VX Clubsport was so far above any of the previous Holdens or HSVs it was ridiculous. A short stint with a VZ V6 ute made me realise they still couldn't build a decent engine and then a VZ Maloo restored my faith in the marque, sort of.

In my opinion, Holden never made a good engine. People might have turned Holden's various sow's ears into silk purses but that was about it.

I'd go so far as to say that they've really only just started making good cars, in the last decade or so. Prior to that it was either plastic rubbish or rusty rubbish. Either way it was rubbish.

Back in the day I'd have been much happier with a Chrysler/Valiant. I still remember with fondness the 245 in my Grandmother's Centura. Compared to a Holden 6 or even a V8...well you couldn't compare them. It was sensational. The car was terrible but the engine was awesome, which put it an engine ahead of any Holden at the time.

And I grew up a Holden tragic. I came to realise that it was mostly a Holden tragedy.

In my personal experience, almost anything from Japan or Europe was and still is well ahead of any Holden. Having said that, I suspect they are now building a world class car, it's just a bit late and the wrong sort of car.

[Pickles2]

Steane, Everybody has a right to their opinion, but I'd probably disagree with much of what you say, although a 186 Monaro or a 202HQ wouldn't float my boat either...Your relos seem to have bought at the lower end of the power spectrum,.....I wouldn't want them either,.....I would definitely want more performance, so I wouldn't buy a 2.85 for example.
In actuall fact, Holden have made some great engines, although maybe not in the configuration/cars that you mention which I probably wouldn't want to own either.
But the Holden "Red Motor" was a ripper, as demonstrated by its performance in an XU1. And the 308 Holden V8 was a superb engine, as was its derivative the 355 stroker.
Of course, time marches on, We now have the superb range of Chev engines from the U.S.(for a couple of years anyway), but in their day, the Holden V8 was OK, IMHO.
Pickles.
NB: I ain't particularly a Holden man or a Ford man or anything else in particular really. I've been lucky enough to own a range of different makes, all of which I've seen something good in, otherwise I wouldn't have bought 'em,...but one thing I always do,...I will invariably will order the most performance orientated drive train I can?,......didn't have much choce with the Defender though!!

[steane]

Yeah, you'll never convince me Pickles but it is fun to hear the different views that people have.:D It's what makes the world go around and gives us all something to talk about.

I've also owned way too many cars and performance used to matter to me, it was all that mattered, but I actually get far more enjoyment out of the Deefer than any performance car I've owned, and I've had some rippers (not the HSVs).

Such is life!

[Pickles2]

Yeah, you'll never convince me Pickles but it is fun to hear the different views that people have.:D It's what makes the world go around and gives us all something to talk about.

I've also owned way too many cars and performance used to matter to me, it was all that mattered, but I actually get far more enjoyment out of the Deefer than any performance car I've owned, and I've had some rippers (not the HSVs).

Such is life!
"More enjoyment out of the Deefer"?...Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
Wifey & I comment on this all the time that the car we've most enjoyed, & the vehicle We've enjoyed being in most, is Gracie, our Defender,.....with all of her 90KW!!!
Regards, Pickles.

[Redback]

I had a 67 HR with the stock 186, but modified with the 192 kit, yella terra head, triple SUs, cam, and so on, while it was fast enough and with OK handling and when I wasn't breaking engine mounts or blowing pistons, it had nothing on my 1966 Triumph 2.5PI, NOW THAT WAS A CAR, fully independent suspension, full leather and wood grain inerior, camping body interior, disc brakes, fuel injection, never had an issue with this car, 130mph top speed, heaps faster than any 6 cyclinder Holden Ford or Valiant, as quick as a HQ 350 Monaro, I know that for sure, as I dragged one:burnrubber:

Out of all the so called Australian cars I've owned(Holden Ford Valiant) it's a tie between my 63 XL Ford wagon, slow yes, but I just loved this car, my 67 VIP VC Valiant V8, fast, really really thirsty and handled like a boat and my 302 XB GS Ford Falcon, this was fast, handled well, comfy, thirsty, heaps of room, towed well and sounded AWESOME:D

I found this on the Shannons Club

HD/HR X2, To many Carbs, by Joe Kenwright

The HD Special was plainer than previous entry Standard models even with this one’s optional white roof. The artistic licence in Holden HD brochure illustrations seemed to portray a different car to the one in this photo. Buyers desperate for extra room initially overlooked the oddball looks before the skinny track so evident here and other shortcuts challenged long-standing loyalties. (Photo from Wikimedia Commons)
The Holden HD was a brutal reminder of what it cost Holden after Detroit was forced to intervene and re-work the EJ and EH then replace the local EF proposal with the HD. As a futuristic design from a GM experimental studio in Detroit, the HD launched in February 1965 had the right pedigree until Holden attempts to anticipate local market sensitivities were overruled. Buyer reaction then prompted an early local HR facelift. The X2 engine option suffered by association with what many regard as the worst Holden ever.
Far worse than the sales it cost Holden, the HD proved that loyalty to Holden was product-driven and not a given. The HD wrong turn and its X2 engine ill-suited to the average Holden buyer emboldened rivals.

[ozscott]

Steane we had 245 and 265 vals. My brother has a 265 worked over. They are great motors. Apart from that your post is only relevant to stockers. If you had heard warmed over versions singing at 6500 rpm you wouldnt be holding back the praise. I say again that my 40 thou over blue motor left vl turbos in the shade.

Cheers

Cheers

[ozscott]

Hi Pickles. Mate mine was 2 tone metallic greeny silver and dark green. M21 conversion. Stock suspension save for Peddars struts and rack and i had a larger front roll bar. Stock springs kept a much better ride on our roads than the blue pointers had. My brother has it now and its still sweet....all green velour interior with single spoke wheel. Mine had 15 inch Performance Stryker Mags - long thin fingers crhome and black. Handled well.

Cheers

[steane]

Steane we had 245 and 265 vals. My brother has a 265 worked over. They are great motors. Apart from that your post is only relevant to stockers. If you had heard warmed over versions singing at 6500 rpm you wouldnt be holding back the praise. I say again that my 40 thou over blue motor left vl turbos in the shade.

Cheers

Cheers

Yeah, I am only referring to my experience with the stock Holden product. I had no experience with modified Holden donks, which was probably a good thing for my long suffering wallet back when I was a young chap. I wanted to love the stockers, I really did, but they wouldn't let me:p