CRD Injectors - Has anyone had any Problems with them?

[Robmacca]

Gents....

Coming from a Toyota background and having concerns over the CRD Injector problems that some Toyota owners have had, I thought that since I'm considering what my next vehicle may be that I would ask the question here as to whether there has been any problems with the CRD Injectors on LR engines from the TD5 engines to the latest CRD engines?

Knowing Australia has a poor fuel quality history, it has me a little concerned as I'm assuming there is a massive COST to replace the CRD injectors from being damaged from bad fuel, etc.....

Does LR suggest in the servicing that they are replaced at some specific point in the servicing schedule? (ie: @ 150,000kms ??)

I would like to hear from anyone that has had any sort of issues with the CRD injectors......& also with Pumps I guess I should add also.....


rob

[George130]

I have not had issues with the injectors.
There is no specific replacement period on the TD5.
Yes water contamination can cause issues.
The TD5 has a water sensor on the filter and a drain point for when this happens.
Pumps can fail but will normally give plenty of warning first.
Defenders are expected to get poor fuel compared to the Disco or Rangie, don't know if this means they cope better or not.

[loanrangie]

TD5 is not common rail, have a read of Chop's issue with bad fuel in his Puma.

[PhilipA]

TD5 does not have CRD injectors.
They are unitary injectors which are energised by the camshaft and produce their own pressure ( except for the 35psi or so controlled by the Fuel Pressure Regulator). There is a spill valve controlled by the ECU which determines the fuel usage.

I would think that the TD5 injectors would be less likely to have water through them as the fuel filter has a water trap and alarm, much like the "water watch" alarm that people add to Jap 4x4s. In addition the fuel is heated and recirculated so the injector is not the final end point for the fuel .
I note the ECU can trim injector's duration while operating , so I assume the Crank position sensor measures engine acceleration by cylinder. The ECU advises trim by cylinder to readers such as Nanocom, so a fault is reported if one arises.( or the engine stops from a flat battery and you get all sorts of injector failure messages)

Questions on this forum suggest that they give little trouble except for the sealing washers and orings, although I note someone posted about a failure last week.
From everything I have read they do not fail at 100-130KK like the Toyota injectors.
Regards Philip A

[PAT303]

Had two vehicles with CRD,both used all over the outback,not a single issue.Toyota's problems stem from injectors being out of spec from new and very cheap electric plugs.They also for some reason have problems with the ECU not accepting the injector codes,thats been a problem for 10 years or more.Denso don't have the quality control of Bosch IMHO. Pat

[d2dave]

I have a neighbor that recently purchased a 2010 Playdough. Not long after the injectors failed. Hugh $s to fix but lucky for him it was under used car warranty.

A bit later on they failed again and water in fuel was blamed. It needed injectors and pump. He claimed it on his insurance and they excepted it.

In hindsight he said if he had his time again he would get a different vehicle.

He went for the Tojo based on their so called good reputation.

As for the TD5, from all my research and owning one now with 190,000 on it,
I reckon the Td5 system is the best of both worlds. Has the benefits of common rail without the expense.

I believe that TD5 injectors are more forgiving that common rail and are streets ahead with pricing if needed.

[d2dave]

have a read of Chop's issue with bad fuel in his Puma.

Ask Dullbird also about her experience.

[PAT303]

I have a neighbor that recently purchased a 2010 Playdough. Not long after the injectors failed. Hugh $s to fix but lucky for him it was under used car warranty.

A bit later on they failed again and water in fuel was blamed. It needed injectors and pump. He claimed it on his insurance and they excepted it.

In hindsight he said if he had his time again he would get a different vehicle.

He went for the Tojo based on their so called good reputation.

As for the TD5, from all my research and owning one now with 190,000 on it,
I reckon the Td5 system is the best of both worlds. Has the benefits of common rail without the expense.

I believe that TD5 injectors are more forgiving that common rail and are streets ahead with pricing if needed.

I think water is blamed for every single fuel issue,it seems to me to be the standard excuse for the masses. Pat

[Robmacca]

TD5 is not common rail, have a read of Chop's issue with bad fuel in his Puma.
Just finished reading his post..... It seems the problem is still a little unknown and still not 100% sorted. It doesn't seem like its a common problem but for me a good reason to install a Aux Fuel filter.

[101RRS]

The main killer of CRD systems is water - the standard fuel filters work OK for particles but not water.

I am not sure adding an extra fuel filter will help all that well for the problems being discussed because if fuel can get through the filter so can water.

By all means fit an extra filter if it will filter out particles better than the original and not just clog up, but for water you need a large catch water bowl like Water Watch or a combined unit with a water alarm fitted.

garry

[marko66]

Hi All


From memory most filters for common rail are 5 micron and you need 2 micron to keep water out.


Common rail has an almost 0 water tolerance - the fine rust mark is enough to cause drama's


All fuel has some water even if it is absorbed through the air


So most vehicles filter systems are setup to fail


Regards Mark

[EastFreo]

My Prado injectors failed at 81000 km. Toyota initially quoted $7000 to replace and then offered me a deal of $5000!

Found a place in Perth called united fuel injection who were great and replaced for $3000.

Gave me a good excuse to sell what was then still a good car and order my new Defender ...which I finally get this Tuesday!

[goingbush]

As well as having an aftermarket pre filter / water separator I squirt a dose of Moreys DSK in the tank every time I fill up
MOREY’S DIESEL SMOKE KILLER | Morey's Lubrication Systems (http://www.moreyoil.co.nz/moreys-diesel-smoke-killer/)

[Robmacca]

Racor sell a good Aux 2micron Fuel Filter that has "special filtering paper" that repel's water and will not let it through...... the Element though is not that cheap to replace though..... around $80>$100 or there abouts. This filter is heavily used with crd engines.....



The main killer of CRD systems is water - the standard fuel filters work OK for particles but not water.

I am not sure adding an extra fuel filter will help all that well for the problems being discussed because if fuel can get through the filter so can water.

By all means fit an extra filter if it will filter out particles better than the original and not just clog up, but for water you need a large catch water bowl like Water Watch or a combined unit with a water alarm fitted.

garry

[Robmacca]

I read of a few people that have suffered from that and a mate of mine has also suffered from that as well.... They've all been in the 120's Prados though, not the 150's. Bailey's Diesel has developed a better and cheaper injector than what Toyota offers..... I think a set of 4 is somewhere around $1500 (exchange) or there abouts....

http://www.baileysdiesel.com (http://www.baileysdiesel.com/on-highway//)




My Prado injectors failed at 81000 km. Toyota initially quoted $7000 to replace and then offered me a deal of $5000!

Found a place in Perth called united fuel injection who were great and replaced for $3000.

Gave me a good excuse to sell what was then still a good car and order my new Defender ...which I finally get this Tuesday!

[d2dave]

By all means fit an extra filter if it will filter out particles better than the original and not just clog up, but for water you need a large catch water bowl like Water Watch or a combined unit with a water alarm fitted.

garry

Garry. There are filters that allow fuel but not water to pass through. There is even a funnel on the market that has a filter in it that does the same. Deigned for filling from jerrys.

I have even heard of one pedantic person using it every time he gets fuel from a servo.

[PhilipA]

I have even heard of one pedantic person using it every time he gets fuel from a
servo.
All I can say is that he must be patient.
I have the highest flow one and it is so slow to pass diesel that you would have a riot at a busy roadhouse.
I gave up the idea of using it every time after one go at a quieter roadhouse.

Regards Philip A

[Tote]

The issue with filters and water traps in CRD vehicles is the rate that fuel is recirculated through the system to cool and lubricate the high pressure pump. Water watch and similar systems rely on a sensitive sensor and a reservour which will catch water quickly and allow the operator to shut down before the water can make it past the filter. Due to the high flow rate hygrophobic filters run the risk of being damaged due to the pressure build up of a large amont of water and letting it pass. All of this also needs to avoid warranty claims from the manufatcurer if fitted to a new vehicle.
Having said that I have never had an issue with contaminated fuel in 250,000 KM in the D3. The biggest risk is from privately owned fuel bowsers that may not be properly maintained. Commercial fuel vendors have a pretty strong motivation to not sell contaminated fuel.

Regards,
Tote

[bob10]

I can't see where you would place a 2nd filter on a TD5 engine. There is no fuel injection pump. The fuel pp is a two stage pp , fitted in the tank with flooded suction. Fuel is pumped by the LP stage to the fuel filter, at 0.75 BAR , goes back to the pump assembly to the HP stage & is pumped to the fuel pressure regulator at 4 BAR, the regulator maintains 4 BAR at the injectors. The injectors, by black magic, individually maintain 1500 BAR at the point of injection. Fuel returns back thru the regulator, the regulator returns excess fuel to the cooler, & then via a return line to the filter & fuel pump. To me, the only place for a second filter would be on the LP line from the fuel pump to the filter. There is no room, from what I can see.


There are 3 other gauze filters in the system, in the fuel pump at the HP & LP stages, & in the FPR. Admittedly, for solid matter only. The water sensor & alarm lamp are the only protection against water in the fuel, from what I can see. Bob

[PAT303]

Garry. There are filters that allow fuel but not water to pass through. There is even a funnel on the market that has a filter in it that does the same. Deigned for filling from jerrys.

I have even heard of one pedantic person using it every time he gets fuel from a servo.

I should have worded it better,I don't use it at every servo,just in the bush for the first 10ltres or so to get an idea of what I'm putting in the tank and filling from Jerries,I also do the cooling system on the Tdi every year,find a post where I bitching about spending $$$$ replacing the head ;),it's the little things that make a difference. Pat