Petrol V Diesel Ongoing Fuel Running Costs

[TerryO]

There are plenty of threads about why diesel is better than petrol and vice versa, however I don't remember every seeing a thread comparing the running costs of the same model vehicle with the two different fuels.

I roughly worked out and its only rough mind you, that I can expect to pay about $6,000 to maybe $7,000 extra in fuel costs per 100,000 kilometres driving a V8 petrol D4 versus a 3.0 litre diesel D4.

Knowing the maintenance costs of my TDV6 D3 and what one can roughly expect on a petrol V8 D4 given the history of the V8 D3 I reckon the difference in running costs could end up being roughly half or even less on average of the extra fuel it costs to run the petrol D4, making a petrol D4 or D3 even better value given their much cheaper purchase price second hand.

By the way this is comparing Disco's that aren't doing most of their driving towing 3 tons of caravan all around Australia 10 months of the year either.

Now this only really counts once a vehicle is out of warranty, prior to that the diesel kills the petrol dead for running costs in comparison I would bet.

What does everyone else think?

[101RRS]

Based on Canberra prices for LPG and Petrol its costs 28.5c per km to run my 101 on LPG and 33c per km on 91 Ron Petrol.

Garry

[coolum]

When the D3 was new the V8 cost (sometimes way) more than the TDV6.


These V8's are now cheaper (bad for the original purchaser - great for the second hand comsumer - higher depreciation rate).


When you now consider the other bits on the TD that aren't an issue with the V8 - then it seemed the cheaper purchase and the 100K+ maintanence Plus turbo etc IMHO and according to the MPG calcs - The price at the pump was going to take some time to become equal.


My thoughts at the time, was that just when you thought you may be coming out ahead with diesel over petrol (at the pump) you could bet murphy would open the law book and throw some unforseen diesel bank draining unusual (known to all others) 'issue' into the $ game.


I love my V8 - even though I swore I would never have another after my RRC 3.5, Not that it (the V8 engine) ever gave any trouble. I went to the D1 200tdi again second hand - but ran on the smell of 'the mere thought of' an oily rag.


The perception of any 'difference' in the price at the pump I would suggest, (based on the fact that you are filling up more often, but with similar filling cost - No of Litres and Price per litre) would not be as noticeable as a large repair bill thrown into the mix.

[shanegtr]

I haven't owned my D3 long enough to make comment, but I'll add one once I've got a year of records under my belt;)

[nat_89]

I haven't really taken any notice with regards to fuelling up don't keep a record just top up i guess, but i went with the diesel because i guess the V8 means stopping more often on longer trips to get fuel due to the higher usage. My car is under the corporate programme so i don't pay for servicing until that runs out so i haven't really done all the pluses and minuses of it.

[Meken]

I haven't really taken any notice with regards to fuelling up don't keep a record just top up i guess, but i went with the diesel because i guess the V8 means stopping more often on longer trips to get fuel due to the higher usage. My car is under the corporate programme so i don't pay for servicing until that runs out so i haven't really done all the pluses and minuses of it.


And if you play your card right you replace it with another newy and no maintenance costs again ;)

[Tombie]

And if you play your card right you replace it with another newy and no maintenance costs again ;)


Which is kind of moot.. Because you just replaced your lease with a whole new payment regime :)

If I look at lease costs then factor in depreciated pay out figure; bank half my original post tax payment then I'm well in front with any engine...

But I don't have a shiny new vehicle :D

A vehicle is a tool or a toy.. IMO worrying about resale value etc on a depreciating asset is pointless.

Get what ever suits your use - in my case I travel where I could never carry the Petrol required to make it... Diesel I can.. Plus I like the more consistent consumption of a diesel - as opposed to a Petrol on sand etc...

A tank of petrol wouldn't even get my boat to my favourite launch & fishing spot and back! The diesel does it with ease...

Horses for courses and to each their own.

[Meken]

Wouldn't like to see the petrol jerrys you'd need for a Simpson crossing ;)

[TerryO]

I thought someone posted recently about crossing the Simpson in a petrol Disco and it used, from memory, about 160 litres. Add a long ranger tank and your up around the 190 litre mark, so no big deal.

A diesel Disco won't make it either without a long range tank or Jerry's anyway.

Plus another thing how many Simpson crossing is the average punter planning to do in the average ownership life time of any vehicle? Maybe one or two at most, so while it might take some extra planning its not really the deal breaker that some make out.

Go back to when most of these outback vehicle tracks / roads were originally made and from memory most vehicles that did it originally were petrol.

Getting back to the point of comparing the running costs of petrol v diesel, I'm not saying Tombie or anyone else should sell their diesel and buy a petrol Disco or one is better than the other either , I'm just looking at comparing running costs.

[powerd]

I am interested in this thread too.

I had an early D1 and really loved it. I can do standard maintenance myself and the less complex mechanical work. I am now thinking of a vehicle which may also be used in my retirement - a few years off yet though. My current Jackaroo is getting on at 200,000kms (although faultlessly reliable), is very sluggish and not well equipped. It drinks like a sailor on shore leave too, but I have been ok with that because it costs so little to maintain otherwise.

Looking at used D3s, I could buy a V8 HSE, for a lot less than a 2.7 diesel, and most likely with a lot less kms. Better equipped, much better performance (never met a kilowatt I didn't love, and the 2.7 is a bit slow for me) and seemingly more reliable with less maintenance cost according to the forums here and in Blighty. I would be fitting it out with the usual gear, and probably towing an offroad camper.

Yes, I know the fuel consumption will be higher, but it will not be my only vehicle so will do limited kms per year. The shorter range may be an issue, but if it becomes a real problem there are long-range tank options.

It just seems to me a D3 V8 is a fantastic package, at a great price. Those for sale also seem to be more family cars than offroad hacks, or hd towing rigs, so seem to be in top condition. And dealer serviced too.

Interested to hear others' thoughts.

[NomadicD3]

Ah Terry, may I point out mate that your one of very few lucky people who can afford a whole family of landrovers!! :D. The rest of us poor people can usually only afford one landrover:p..........Perhaps we should just wait for you to study the numbers and post them.....:Rolling:

[nat_89]

Which is kind of moot.. Because you just replaced your lease with a whole new payment regime :)

If I look at lease costs then factor in depreciated pay out figure; bank half my original post tax payment then I'm well in front with any engine...

But I don't have a shiny new vehicle :D

A vehicle is a tool or a toy.. IMO worrying about resale value etc on a depreciating asset is pointless.

Get what ever suits your use - in my case I travel where I could never carry the Petrol required to make it... Diesel I can.. Plus I like the more consistent consumption of a diesel - as opposed to a Petrol on sand etc...

A tank of petrol wouldn't even get my boat to my favourite launch & fishing spot and back! The diesel does it with ease...

Horses for courses and to each their own.

Mine isn't a lease car just under LRs corporate programme which gives you fee servicing to 100000kms and free floor mats and cheaper dealers delivery.


And if you play your card right you replace it with another newy and no maintenance costs again ;)

Very true there the corporate programme is a great thing I've found saves a bit in servicing!

[Epic pooh]

For me, I can safely say that the bulk of my maintenance / repair costs are entirely unrelated to the fuel used by the motor and are things that would be shared by either engine type (eg. suspension, body clips and bits that have been sacrificed to the trials, windscreens, tyres, a diff, gearbox fluid change, exhaust etc etc). Without doing the math, I think the biggest single area of repair/maintenance expenditure is suspension (mostly by choice to make sure the magic carpet doesn't fray).

The costs directly attributable to my engine over 9years/140km are only things like : oil, oil filters, coolant, some coolant parts, spark plugs, air filters, sensor cleaners.

The biggest single running cost attributable to the vehicle is depreciation and in that respect the cost is significantly higher than the equivalent diesel I would think.

Not sure if that's what you were getting at Terry, but there it is :p

[Homestar]

If you plan on keeping the vehicle long term then remember a well maintained Diesel engine will outlive a well maintained petrol engine by quite a bit.

[Epic pooh]

It would be interesting to find the highest mileage V8 D3 and see what the butchers bill has been.

[Marmoset]

A mate of mine ran his D3 for a shade over 200,000kms with no issues whatsoever from the motor - he just serviced when required and changed the plugs at the required time. The only other bits he replaced were suspension bushes and brakes.

[coolum]

Heading to Brisbane and the car is strong and tight as any.


intending to do a petrol lit/100Km test by filling before and after the trip. I have just switched to Conti cross contact uhp at 255 60 R18 over previous tyre on car when I bought it which were 255 55 R18 -


I would expect to use less fuel than usual (as the revolutions are higher with smaller profile tyre) but also have to consider it takes more power to push with greater circumference which may play a part.


I have done the same trip and clocked 10.2 lits/100km - I am doing exactly the same trip with same load to see if there is a difference and which tyre profile is more economical.


As far as Logs show - no engine issues to date. Has had things like Aircon compressor , AES Compressor, and usual brake and suspension repairs done .. not much done during the last two years with me. only standard servicing an Alternator and a few electronic repairs by the British offroad team.


Engine strong as new - I feel sure it will double the current Km's without a problem with regular servicing but who can really foretell.


There would be plenty out there who must be approaching half a mill I would think as they are such a great workhorse.

[gossamer]

So what is the real world economy of the diesel engine?
what l/100 are you getting
around town?
towing?
hwy?

As for diesel outliving a petrol is that still the case with common rail and its relience on tight tolerences in the fuel system?

[powerd]

..........a well maintained Diesel engine will outlive a well maintained petrol engine by quite a bit.

Bacicat
I wonder if that is still the case these days. Diesels used to be low power engines which were derived mostly from trucks, without higher tech approaches such as big/multiple turbos, high pressure injection etc to push the power and torque levels. Diesel rev and perform so much better these days.

Similarly, the durability of petrol engines has increased due to much better oils and fuel injection managing fuel delivery etc. These days, who hears of recent petrol engines having to be rebuilt except where there has been failure such as overheating? For example, my daughter's 2000 auto Astra, at 308,000kms, runs almost like new, with minimal oil use. It has only had a head gasket replaced, a known issue with these. My son's similar car untouched at 200,000kms is equally good. Although I wish I could say the same about the electrics on Astras!

The V8 Ford/Jaguar engine has proven extremely durable, as have the internals of the 2.7 diesel. I am a Jaguar buff and have read more than one article from the UK about the V8s with 200,000 miles on the clock running beautifully, still having spot on compression and no increased oil use.

These days, I suspect most engines regularly maintained will outlast the driver's except perhaps those who do extreme mileages. Wasn't there an Irish Disco3 2.7 that had covered around 500,000 miles (or was that kms?) and was having its engine replaced?

[Tombie]

So what is the real world economy of the diesel engine?
what l/100 are you getting
around town?
towing?
hwy?

As for diesel outliving a petrol is that still the case with common rail and its relience on tight tolerences in the fuel system?


TDV6 (2.7 version).

Winch bar and winch, LR tank, Wheel
Carrier, body armour and 265-60-18LT.

Around town I get 10.5 avg
Highway at 115km/h I get 9.7avg
Highway towing camper 12.2avg
Highway towing boat 14.8avg
*l/100km

Cheers

[gossamer]

So what is the real world economy of the diesel engine?
what l/100 are you getting
around town?
towing?
hwy?



Probably should have added mine :)
D3 V8 240,000ks 285/60/18
Around town 15l/100
Hwy 12l/100
Towing a 1700kg camper 17l/100 with cruise on at speed limit

Minor service every 10,000 ks 7 1/2 liters of oil ($60) plus oil filter ($40)
Major service spark plugs every 100,000ks at $28 each
My only major expence was doing a head gasket due to blowing a hose, they did both for$4.5K

Based on tombie's diesel vs my V8 and $1.50 per liter
Around town it costs me $7.50 per 100k's = $75 per 1000ks, = $750 per 10,000ks extra
Hwy $3 per 100ks = $300 per 10,000ks extra
and towing assuming his boat is about the same as my heavy camper $3 per 100ks = $300 per 10,000ks extra

[Rich84]

Bacicat
I wonder if that is still the case these days. Diesels used to be low power engines which were derived mostly from trucks, without higher tech approaches such as big/multiple turbos, high pressure injection etc to push the power and torque levels. Diesel rev and perform so much better these days.

Similarly, the durability of petrol engines has increased due to much better oils and fuel injection managing fuel delivery etc. These days, who hears of recent petrol engines having to be rebuilt except where there has been failure such as overheating? For example, my daughter's 2000 auto Astra, at 308,000kms, runs almost like new, with minimal oil use. It has only had a head gasket replaced, a known issue with these. My son's similar car untouched at 200,000kms is equally good. Although I wish I could say the same about the electrics on Astras!

The V8 Ford/Jaguar engine has proven extremely durable, as have the internals of the 2.7 diesel. I am a Jaguar buff and have read more than one article from the UK about the V8s with 200,000 miles on the clock running beautifully, still having spot on compression and no increased oil use.

These days, I suspect most engines regularly maintained will outlast the driver's except perhaps those who do extreme mileages. Wasn't there an Irish Disco3 2.7 that had covered around 500,000 miles (or was that kms?) and was having its engine replaced?



He had a roller rocker failure at (I think) 640K miles. That seems to be a problem on some TDV6 engines. You can hear the hydraulic lifters making a bit of noise at startup if they haven't been fired up for a while.


A well maintained petrol car can last hundreds of thousands of km too - like you said - I have a 2001 Audi A4 1.8t as a daily driver, and you could not pick it has 300K on it. No hardware has been replaced on it at all! Same with my old Pintara TRX - 2 clutch replacements, but other than that all hardware is original at 440K.


Diesels do however have the potential to last longer - less chance of pre-ignition, better chance of having forged internals to cope with the (normally 2x) higher compression - the same reason they also run at lower engine speeds, which also prolongs their life. There's also the matter of the fuel itself - diesel has lubrication properties far in excess of petrol, which is more of a detergent. Instead of assisting in the lubrication of the bore, petrol dilutes the lubrication.


Real world economy of my diesel RRS TDV6 - road tires, no off-road mods:
-40% city, 30% highway, 30% country b-roads - 10.2L/100km
-100% highway - 7.5-8.0L/100km
-100% highway, pulling 2T camper trailer and full vehicle - fridges etc - 11-12L/100km


It's the long trips where the diesel really shines.

[coolum]

Sunny coast to brissie 2 in vehicle .. no traffic delays via airport and Kingsmith to city there and back fill up at each end showed 242 kms and 26 lits of fuel


Av of 10.74 lits /100km.


Round sunny coast no hills 12.4lits/100km average.


Strangely this seems a little higher than when I had the slightly smaller tyre profiles and had a number of trips (exactly the same route and occupants) at avg of 10.5 lits /100kms - marginal - could have been headwind at that small rate.


Anyway bottom line is if you 'boot it' it will change this to an inverted number for sure - 100litres per 10 km lol.


When you consider the ride and the luxury its worth every cent.

[TerryO]

Ok these numbers are definitely not something to take to the bank but its a start.

On the way back through Sydney we picked up the D3 after a service and other work that was required.

As I said this is not accurate but it is a start, so using the trip meters in both the D3 and 4 after driving approx 170 kilometres on the freeway South to Goulburn the D3 with 265x70/17" KM2 mud tyres fitted and with a bull bar and winch, second battery, rear wheel carrier, rock sliders etc averaged 10.9 litres per hundred at around the speed limit.

The D4 with 265x50/20' A/T's fitted and all else standard averaged 11.5 kilometres per hundred following behind the D3.

If the D3 had the slightly smaller A/T's fitted it would, from past history, average about 1 to 1.5 litres per hundred better economy.

So after a not to scientific first up comparison there is not that much difference dual wise on the highway. I would however expect a 3.0 litre diesel to have better numbers than the 2.7.

[TerryO]

Just towed the 2.5 ton caravan to Canberra with the D3, it averaged 17 litres per hundred driving at 100 kph, at 110 kph it was averaging 19.5 litres per hundred.

Again this is with nearly 32 inch mud tyres on, with smaller A/T's the fuel consumption would be better.

I reckon this is where the V8 D4 will be hard to live with in comparison to the TDV6 D3. But until I get a brake controller fitted to the D4 I won't be able to compare.

[scarry]

Bacicat
I wonder if that is still the case these days. Diesels used to be low power engines which were derived mostly from trucks, without higher tech approaches such as big/multiple turbos, high pressure injection etc to push the power and torque levels. Diesel rev and perform so much better these days.

Similarly, the durability of petrol engines has increased due to much better oils and fuel injection managing fuel delivery etc. These days, who hears of recent petrol engines having to be rebuilt except where there has been failure such as overheating? For example, my daughter's 2000 auto Astra, at 308,000kms, runs almost like new, with minimal oil use. It has only had a head gasket replaced, a known issue with these. My son's similar car untouched at 200,000kms is equally good. Although I wish I could say the same about the electrics on Astras!

The V8 Ford/Jaguar engine has proven extremely durable, as have the internals of the 2.7 diesel. I am a Jaguar buff and have read more than one article from the UK about the V8s with 200,000 miles on the clock running beautifully, still having spot on compression and no increased oil use.

These days, I suspect most engines regularly maintained will outlast the driver's except perhaps those who do extreme mileages. Wasn't there an Irish Disco3 2.7 that had covered around 500,000 miles (or was that kms?) and was having its engine replaced?

I know quite a few people that have petrol engined vehicles with well over 350k on them and the engines have never been touched.Everything else fails though,no matter what brand they are,water pumps,radiators,alternators,etc.
One of my brothers has recently done the heads on his D1,just clicked over 360K,first time it has been touched.Had weeping head gaskets,so not a major issue.
People i know with late model diesels seem to get rid of the vehicles before they reach high mileage,mainly because they are company vehicles.

[Redback]

To and from work, semi urban.....11.5L/100 ave

Hwy, home to Glouchester, 10l.3/100 best ever

Towing a 1.5t camper........15l/100 ave

2.7L TDV6, WITH 245/70/17s(30.5") B/Bar, winch, dual batts, drawers, fridge, kaymar rear bar twin carriers, LR tank, roof platform, two awnings, pole carrier.

Best figurs ever was, towing a car trailer(980kg) from Benalla to Myrtleford then with a 2.5t Amarok full of firewood(no idea how much the firewood weighed) from Mytleford to Sheperton, then trailer back to Benalla, 15.4l/100k, about 300ks all up for this, using the trip computer.

The others are recording fuel used and fills, not via the trip computer.

Baz.

[coolum]

You have some significant extra weight (like a 7 seat Sumo full house) and also some real world 'windage' but still shows reasonable Km/Lt results ..

Hate to see the figures if you put 'All' that on a V8.

Horses for courses.

[ozscott]

If you plan on keeping the vehicle long term then remember a well maintained Diesel engine will outlive a well maintained petrol engine by quite a bit.
Going back to mechanical injection naturally aspirated diesel versus petrol engines of the 70's sure thing, but a modern petrol v modern turbo diesel that is simply not the case.

cheers

[Tote]

Not Land Rover but we gave the question considerable thought when SWMBO bought her Wrangler. We worked out that with the smaller difference in quoted economy figures we'd have to do 600,000KM to make up the extra cost for the diesel over the petrol.

Regards,
Tote

[Dougal]

Not Land Rover but we gave the question considerable thought when SWMBO bought her Wrangler. We worked out that with the smaller difference in quoted economy figures we'd have to do 600,000KM to make up the extra cost for the diesel over the petrol.

Regards,
Tote

Doesn't sound right. In less than that most vehicles will eat their original purchase price entirely.

Many also forget the difference in price between diesel and petrol gets huge as vehicles get older.
P38 rangerovers when sold new here had a $20k premium for the petrol over the diesel. Mostly more options standard on the petrols.

15 years later the diesels are selling for about 3-4x the petrols. The diesels also sell quickly even with huge km on the clock.
So depreciation alone the petrol owners are about $30k behind. Plus extra fuel. Plus known issues.

The same thing is happening with the L322's. Diesels here were generally lower spec and cheaper to buy. But second hand no-one wants the petrols while the TD6 even with it's known gearbox problems isn't dropping below about $25-30k depending on km.

[Dougal]

Here are the fuelly results for the LR3 petrol V8:
Land Rover LR3 Mileage | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land_rover/lr3?engineconfig_id=13139&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=)

V6 diesel:
Land Rover LR3 Mileage | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land_rover/lr3?engineconfig_id=13161&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=)

You can click down through the model years and into individual vehicle records to get more.
The beauty of that site is getting a big enough sample to even out the occasional person doing a lot of town driving or all open road.

But clearly the driving conditions in Russia or the diesel quality is terrible: Discovery IV (Land Rover LR4) | Fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/car/land_rover/lr4/2012/iamfifo/165441)

[TerryO]

Well I have been busy clocking up miles in the D4, in about seven weeks we have done over 6,000 kilometres. You guys know the story, its that nice to drive that we get in and go at every opportunity.

I have not kept fuel usage records for all of that time but have for around two thirds of the k's and I can say with reasonable accuracy that with mainly around town and country road driving combined the V8 is averaging just under 14 litres per 100 kilometres.
Having said that it is hard not to drive it with some enthusiasm as it loves to get up and go.
Once I calm it down a bit I reckon my fuel usuage numbers will be a lot less and more than likely around the 13l/100 mark.

Again even at high 13's per hundred its not much more than the 2.7 D3 which I'm keeping records for as well.

[nat_89]

Well I have been busy clocking up miles in the D4, in about seven weeks we have done over 6,000 kilometres. You guys know the story, its that nice to drive that we get in and go at every opportunity.

I have not kept fuel usage records for all of that time but have for around two thirds of the k's and I can say with reasonable accuracy that with mainly around town and country road driving combined the V8 is averaging just under 14 litres per 100 kilometres.
Having said that it is hard not to drive it with some enthusiasm as it loves to get up and go.
Once I calm it down a bit I reckon my fuel usuage numbers will be a lot less and more than likely around the 13l/100 mark.

Again even at high 13's per hundred its not much more than the 2.7 D3 which I'm keeping records for as well.


Did the same thing when i got a couple of my past V8s haha you just love the power and then you get used to it and settle down haha but its still great fun!!

[Epic pooh]

I was driving mine last night when the storm was on full tilt in my area ... Huge bow waves here and there ... I even noticed a couple of the puddles ... Little cars stopped on the side of the road ... I engaged the humorously named sport mode and belted on, V8 singing away nicely (Disco is made for those conditions I reckon) ... I think I used about 1/4th of a tank in an hour of driving and even at times had to stop eating my chips and put two hands on the wheel.

Anyway, sounds like your econ is similar to mine Terry - infinitely user adjustable but tending to average around the 12-13 mark for normal use.

[Meken]

I was driving mine last night when the storm was on full tilt in my area ... Huge bow waves here and there ... I even noticed a couple of the puddles ... Little cars stopped on the side of the road ... I engaged the humorously named sport mode and belted on, V8 singing away nicely (Disco is made for those conditions I reckon) ... I think I used about 1/4th of a tank in an hour of driving and even at times had to stop eating my chips and put two hands on the wheel.

Anyway, sounds like your econ is similar to mine Terry - infinitely user adjustable but tending to average around the 12-13 mark for normal use.


I can only get about that in my 325 ;)

[ADMIRAL]

Not Land Rover but we gave the question considerable thought when SWMBO bought her Wrangler. We worked out that with the smaller difference in quoted economy figures we'd have to do 600,000KM to make up the extra cost for the diesel over the petrol.

Regards,
Tote

Depends where you are doing the Klm's of course. Having better economy is of little benefit when in the middle of nowhere, and finding there is no unleaded for another 400 k's.

[BobD]

Depends where you are doing the Klm's of course. Having better economy is of little benefit when in the middle of nowhere, and finding there is no unleaded for another 400 k's.




That is a very valid point. We went to Mt Augustus a couple of weeks ago and there was no ULP at either Murchison or Gascoyne Junction until further notice. Since these are about the only fuel stations between the inland route through Meekatharra and the coastal route through Carnarvon it would be a disaster to travel the Gascoyne and Murchison district in a petrol vehicle. Everywhere else we have been in Australia, though, we have always found either ULP or Opel available in the places where we filled up with diesel.


Bob

[Epic pooh]

I can only get about that in my 325 ;)


Town mileage (commuting) in my 4cyl sube is 12+. Don't use the disco for commuting very often and as I said the economy is highly user adjustable according to mood and driving behaviour !

[ADMIRAL]

That is a very valid point. We went to Mt Augustus a couple of weeks ago and there was no ULP at either Murchison or Gascoyne Junction until further notice. Since these are about the only fuel stations between the inland route through Meekatharra and the coastal route through Carnarvon it would be a disaster to travel the Gascoyne and Murchison district in a petrol vehicle. Everywhere else we have been in Australia, though, we have always found either ULP or Opel available in the places where we filled up with diesel.


Bob

Hi Bob

That's a coincidence, I was in the same area for the Australasian Safari rally about the same time. What were you doing up there ?

Neil

[Rich84]

Found this photo that I took last year.


See attached :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


SE Freeway run between Murray Bridge and Mt Barker sitting at a constant 110km/h.


Car does similar on runs to Melb and back.


TDV6 RRS, no offroad extras, 20's with road rubber, 450ml 2-stroke oil per fill.

[nat_89]

Found this photo that I took last year.


See attached :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


SE Freeway run between Murray Bridge and Mt Barker sitting at a constant 110km/h.


Car does similar on runs to Melb and back.


TDV6 RRS, no offroad extras, 20's with road rubber, 450ml 2-stroke oil per fill.

2stroke oil in the fuel tank? Im intrigued?

[Dougal]

2stroke oil in the fuel tank? Im intrigued?

It's basically a lubricant that may or may not have some impact on the noise of diesel ignition delay.
Some people swear by it, other's don't bother.

[Rich84]

It's basically a lubricant that may or may not have some impact on the noise of diesel ignition delay.
Some people swear by it, other's don't bother.



My experience has been positive with it.


-Slightly lower fuel consumption.
-Engine slightly quieter.
-I monitored the carbon on the MAP sensor (I clean it every service) from the EGRs before 2SO and then after. Definitely less carbon after using 2SO.
-One unreal difference is the EGR's themselves - after not using 2SO for a while, my EGRs start to make a weird noise (when they're operating) that sounds like a bunch of cicadas has descended upon the engine. After about 1000km of driving with 2SO that noise mostly disappears. I admit I haven't used it for a little while and the noise has slowly returned. I will be getting back on it ASAP.
-Less smoke or no smoke when booting it. After not using it for a while and easy driving, my car characteristically will emit a cloud of black smoke upon booting it.
-If this is all the case, I assume there is a similar effect on the combustion chamber and turbine housing.


I saw a pic of a TDV6 stripped down by a guy in South Africa after it had spun a bearing. He had been using 2SO in his diesel - no carbon to be seen inside the cylinders!


It's well documented, try searching for 2 stroke oil or 2SO in diesel.

[nat_89]

It's basically a lubricant that may or may not have some impact on the noise of diesel ignition delay.
Some people swear by it, other's don't bother.


My experience has been positive with it.

Thanks for that!!

-Slightly lower fuel consumption.
-Engine slightly quieter.
-I monitored the carbon on the MAP sensor (I clean it every service) from the EGRs before 2SO and then after. Definitely less carbon after using 2SO.
-One unreal difference is the EGR's themselves - after not using 2SO for a while, my EGRs start to make a weird noise (when they're operating) that sounds like a bunch of cicadas has descended upon the engine. After about 1000km of driving with 2SO that noise mostly disappears. I admit I haven't used it for a little while and the noise has slowly returned. I will be getting back on it ASAP.
-Less smoke or no smoke when booting it. After not using it for a while and easy driving, my car characteristically will emit a cloud of black smoke upon booting it.
-If this is all the case, I assume there is a similar effect on the combustion chamber and turbine housing.


I saw a pic of a TDV6 stripped down by a guy in South Africa after it had spun a bearing. He had been using 2SO in his diesel - no carbon to be seen inside the cylinders!


It's well documented, try searching for 2 stroke oil or 2SO in diesel.

Interesting ill have a look into it. Although i haven't noticed much smoke at all from my SDV6 D4

[letherm]

It's well documented, try searching for 2 stroke oil or 2SO in diesel.

My First google search found this.

Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel (http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2strokeoilindiesel.php)

No doubt other searches will give a different viewpoint :p

Ah, the internet - don't you love it.

Martin

[Rich84]

My First google search found this.

Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel (http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2strokeoilindiesel.php)

No doubt other searches will give a different viewpoint :p

Ah, the internet - don't you love it.

Martin


When I said well documented I should have said "well talked about" haha!


When I last researched it the web page with details of an unofficial test Mercedes Benz did with E320 CDI's running 2SO was one of the top items in google. I can't seem to find it now. Their conclusion was that it is beneficial.


I can point out my own positive results from running 2T for 50 odd thousand km, and as per above you can see my TDV6 is running very efficiently, but there will always be differing viewpoints of course - if only I had a dollar for every person who doesn't agree with my ideas - I'd be rich beyond my dreams! :twisted:

[BobD]

Hi Bob

HiThat's a coincidence, I was in the same area for the Australasian Safari rally about the same time. What were you doing up there ?

Neil


Neil,

We did a trip towing my Adventure camper trailer converted to independent air suspension over 9 days. Did Paynes Find, Wooleen Station, Kennedy Ranges, Mt Augustus, Murchison Off Road Park and back to Perth. The only bitumen was Perth to Paynes Find and MOR turn off to Perth, all in convoy with my son in his TDI 300. Great part of the world with camping as remote as anywhere in Aus.

As for fuel consumption, I struggle to get better than 12.5 in any conditions in my 2010 3l D4 SE.

Bob

[Dougal]

As for fuel consumption, I struggle to get better than 12.5 in any conditions in my 2010 3l D4 SE.

Bob

I suspect some people here are talking litres/100km and others talking km/litre.

[letherm]

When I said well documented I should have said "well talked about" haha!


When I last researched it the web page with details of an unofficial test Mercedes Benz did with E320 CDI's running 2SO was one of the top items in google. I can't seem to find it now. Their conclusion was that it is beneficial.


I can point out my own positive results from running 2T for 50 odd thousand km, and as per above you can see my TDV6 is running very efficiently, but there will always be differing viewpoints of course - if only I had a dollar for every person who doesn't agree with my ideas - I'd be rich beyond my dreams! :twisted:


Hi Rich.

I absolutely believe what you're saying. I was more having a joke about the internet always having conflicting views. Hope you didn't take offence as it was not in any way meant to be a shot at you. I believe that word of mouth is a good measure to judge things rather than relying on an article whose provenance you've got no idea about.

Martin

[TerryO]

I used to put 2-stroke oil in the D3 after first reading about it on here.

Did it for about 5,000 kilometres, was the engine quieter? ... yes it was, was it quicker (as some claim) ... no, in fact it felt real dopey pulling away from a stand still.

Did it use less fuel? ... from my experience not really it only averaged about the same, but this is my experience with it, others often get different results, don't know how though.

In the end I couldn't see any real advantage giving the extra cost and hassle so I no longer use it.

One question though, what is the oil that Oil Company's put in diesel for so called 'winter diesel' down here in the South so it doesn't freeze?

[Bytemrk]

One question though, what is the oil that Oil Company's put in diesel for so called 'winter diesel' down here in the South so it doesn't freeze?

I'm not sure whether it's just an oil or some other additive they use. From my limited understanding its about changing the diesel blend so that the waxes that are dissolved in the fuel do not solidify until a much lower temperature... I'm sure someone here can tell us how they do that.

Reading that ever reliable source Wikipedia :p...it looks like all diesel in Tassie is probably alpine diesel anyway!

Winter diesel fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel)
(Under Diesel requirements by country)

Also here is some Caltex marketing blurb.....
http://www.caltex.com.au/FPL%20PDS/Winter%20Diesel%20Blends.pdf

[slug_burner]

Alpine diesel = diesel + kero, I'll see if I can find some details.

My brief reading has found that heating oil is added at 20% for winter diesel and at 40% for Alpine diesel. I don't know that there is much heating oil used these days, not for heating anyway.

[Nomad9]

Hi Powerd (bit ironic),
I recently bought D3 4.0 after having two D3 2.7z, recently bought was about three months ago. So far I have just done a service which I do on every new (to me vehicle I buy) vehicle. The cost of the vehicle was $12k cheaper than an equivalent 2.7 I was looking at, the 2.7 had a bit of fruit, however I'm looking for a normal run of the mill day car for now, this fitted perfectly. Got a bit of umph, no belts and I find a bit more room to work on things. the exhaust goes under the gearbox not over, no turbo, one less thing to worry about. Changing over the tranny filter was a bit more involved however it is done now.
Currently I am sitting on 12.4 litres / 100 klm, I don't drive like I stole it, I just drive it for the pleasure of driving somewhere in comfort for any passengers and myself. Just did the tie rods yesterday and I'm off this morning for a wheel alignment and a set of 18 inch GG AT's. The car had 20's on it I've now taken them off, not my "gig". Oh and did the rear pads yesterday as well they needed it.
Love my D3's however I think the petrol one for me will work out better, as a last thing, I nearly lost my D3 engine due to a cracked water outlet housing on top of the engine, not once but twice. Luckily the smell of hot coolant alerted me to the problem before I toasted anything. With my RRS which was also the 2.7 engine I had to change an EGR valve, that was three days of my life I will never get back, no doubt others could do it quicker, I wasn't a pit lane and I wasn't getting paid to fix it, what a ****** nightmare that was.
Good luck with your decision.