D3 or Isuzu Mux

[SaintMike]

First time post!
I am looking for a 7 seat family tourer with good off road ability around the $45k mark. After considering every car on the market, I have narrowed it down to two. Of the two, the D3 is my favourite however I am weighing up the pros and cons of buying a D3, with 100k's and no warranty versus a bullet proof Mux with 5 year warranty. The D3 is the better drive, but I am concerned about future reliability and running costs and what's likely to go wrong with the D3 once they tick over100k's and head towards 200k's
Would appreciate your thoughts.

[Redback]

New car, it's a 4WD, can be modified, similar to the Colarado 7, no brainer really.

Baz.

[shanegtr]

If your paying someone else to do all the servicing work then you'd be better off with the newer car. If you do your own then go the older car

[SaintMike]

Thanks for such a quick response Redback. I guess that's the way I was thinking, but geez, the D3 is a nice car. I am trying to find a reason to justify buying it!

[SaintMike]

Thanks for the advice. I am ok with basic service stuff, but worried about some of the known big things that might go wrong

[Epic pooh]

I agree with Baz - indestructible new car seems a more logical choice. Are they made in Japan these days ?

Disco will cost a load more to maintain as it ages but will always be a better drive IMO.

As an aside, we are currently looking to replace our sube. We've been looking at all kinds of things and it is amazing that many new cars lack features I take for granted on my 9'yeat old disco and frankly the disco does not feel it's age driven back to back with brand new cars.

We drove a V6 commodore and I can absolutely guarantee that my disco is at least as fast (feels faster and is faster than our last V6 commodore) and has a much sweeter motor.

We also drove a Calais V V8 wagon which is most likely what we will buy ... Best motor of any car we drove by a long shot. Lacking the beautiful sound of our disco but a lot quicker and massive torque.

Good luck, car buying is a tedious process :)

[SaintMike]

Thanks Mick. The Mux is built in Thailand as is the Colorado 7 although they have a few major differences include drive train. The MUX is like a little truck, with strong driveline including an engine rated to 500k's with a stainless steal timing chain.
Of course the down side is that they drive like , well ... a little truck!
The D3 is an outstanding drive with a few extra off road tricks standard.
Anyway, i' ll keep doing all the research and then go and buy wantever the missus says :)

[Epic pooh]

Pajero is the other one id take a look at. Have a soft spot for those, nice drive, 7 seats, good on and off the road, competent towing. A little truck like motor but powerful enough and my only two gripes are the stupid back door and the lack of reach adjustable steering. Good luck !

[SaintMike]

Me too Mick, The Pajero made the short list but they are a little tight for room and that third row seat is very average. If I sold one of the kids, then I might have had a closer look. You can get one for around $47k drive away, The technology is a bit dated but that's not such a bad thing as they are very reliable
Cheers

[Redback]

I'd recommend the Pajero also, I've driven a couple, very nice to drive, a bit like the Disco in that it feels car like to drive, got a bit more go(147Kw and 441Nm) than the Disco and great economy.

Baz.

[Rich84]

Nothing is bullet proof. I'll be replacing the front diff in an 04 Hilux with 215K this weekend - people say they are bullet proof too (mainly it's Toyota saying it these days), and this was one of the older Japanese made ones! Even if it was bullet proof, it's still a rough and ready vehicle that drives more like a farm hack than a car.


D3/RRS is a tough vehicle as well - it will drag an MR truck along even with all six wheels jammed on the truck - but officially it's rated at 3.5T which is still better than most vehicles. Check out the chassis on it, makes the jap stuff look **** weak. Strong diesel engine - great power and fuel economy and also way more refined - and makes a great noise! Does not sound like a truck. Strong but smooth ZF transmission. Electronic magna/steyr transfer case with automatic locking. CAT diffs.


So it is a tough platform. The difference is: it's elegant too. It's quieter than my Audi, comfortable and luxurious to ride around in. My RRS looks bespoke, whether it's on 20's and road tires parked in front of the Adelaide Art Gallery for a cocktail function, or out the front of the Parachilna Pub covered in dust and mud from a trip through the Flinders, while I'm inside having a feral mixed grill and a beer, This is what really won me over - I don't think there is a better on/off road compromise than these cars.


I know I sound biased, and maybe I am. But that's my 0.02 anyway, because if you're like me, you have a lot of boxes to tick. I did check out the majority of jap offerings - honestly I didn't bother even test driving them after I'd checked out the interior quality and stereo. Misfitting panels from the factory is not a good look. The smell just about knocks you out too. $$ wise maybe it'll cost you more, maybe it won't. For me, mine has to be perfect so I do spend a bit extra keeping it like that, whereas my mate's Hilux we're replacing the diff because it seriously has to be replaced and not because he cared about the loud growling noise it was making!

[Epic pooh]

Yep Baz they do feel very car like. So when I had one for a week I kind of forgot that it was a 4wd that propels only the rear wheels on the road and started pressing it in the snowy national park ... I stopped pressing on after a butt clenching moment when the front let go in a big way and I had "old Camry" style massive under steer something the disco does not do even when pressed very very hard (killjoy the computer won't have a bar of it haha).

I agree that disco and rrs have style matched by few (and features absent on many cars). They are tough but potentially very expensive to operate and maintain. I love mine and have no plans to part with it but it is one of three cars in my household.

My fil has a 25 year old 2.4d Hilux 4wd. It's the only car I've ever known that I would call truly bullet proof.

[SaintMike]

Great post Rich and I agree its easily the best compromise on / off road. For me its may be just a case of you can only afford what you can afford I spose:)

[Rich84]

You said your budget was $45K - you should be able to get a great D3 for $10K under that. There's a few D4's that are getting into that bracket. Or TDV8 RRS.

[SaintMike]

thanks for that, i'll take a closer look.

[shanegtr]

The d3 looks a heep better than the mux, and I would say the d3 would have more room inside as well. I'd personally pick the d3 any day

[Dougal]

My fil has a 25 year old 2.4d Hilux 4wd. It's the only car I've ever known that I would call truly bullet proof.

Not bullet proof at all. They just don't have enough power to hurt themselves. I drove one a few months back. It was horrible, but the instruments all still worked.

[Epic pooh]

Haha horrible is understatement of the century.

Actually the only thing on his that doesn't work is the tachometer - not that it matters because no sane person would rev it beyond about 2500 rpm as it just gets louder and starts to get slower as the revs rise.

[rar110]

Ive faced the same quandary as I consider moving from the 110 to something softer. I don't know anything about the MUX.

Head says Pajero (particularly with rear e-locker as standard) as a good reliable low maintenance cost vehicle. Next year will be a new model so they will have a run out sale with big discounts. When this year's EFY sale was on you could buy a new GLX-R for $45 drive away. I just don't like the dash or part time 4wd set up. The traction control doesn't seem that flash either, and I don't like the rear door either.

However, D3/D4 is a much better more advanced vehicle, which is why it keeps winning international awards. If you have cash and are ready to buy you can pick up some good prices on a 2.7 Discovery with under 100,000 km. They often only last a day. e.g. the best Ive seen recently is a 2008 D3 TDV6 with 97,000km in good nic sold for $27400, or a 2011 (MY12) D4 with 56,000km sold for $46500k. Major problems with late D3 or D4 2.7 TDV6 seem pretty rare.

[Rich84]

Haha horrible is understatement of the century.

Actually the only thing on his that doesn't work is the tachometer - not that it matters because no sane person would rev it beyond about 2500 rpm as it just gets louder and starts to get slower as the revs rise.



Sounds a lot like my mate's early 80's Lux. 4 speed manual, diesel, not sure how big the diesel is.


Basically you're pretty brave if you take it to 110, because it is properly redlining 4th gear by then, so you can only do it downhill - on a level 80 is about as fast as she goes. The brakes barely work and it feels like the car is going to shake itself to bits.


Clearly NVH wasn't on the development criteria...


It is a useful vehicle though, and to be honest, it has somehow withstood my mate's mechanical efforts, which is a fair achievement - I'd hate to think of the repair bill on the RRS if I were to wire the battery around the wrong way!

[Fluids]

Mum & Dad purchased a new MUX 4-5 months ago. Top spec auto with all the fruit. They handed down their 2008 D-Max LS-M manual with 75k to me :)

D-Max is a utilitarian japanese 4WD dual cab that rides like a sulky with **** poor rear suspension ... but a GREAT engine & gearbox, strong chassis & generous tub. Isuzu build great engines. Period!

The MUX is nothing like the D-Max, even though it shares the same, slightly uprated engine, and chassis platform. It rides comfortably since they've fitted coils all around ... could do with better than the factory shocks. All reports I've read so far, and from the few times I've driven it, I'd call it a strong contender for your purpose. Seems as an off-roader it's very capable. The engine, transmission, and chassis look to be pretty bullet proof! (Truck!) The level of fitout is good. The seats are comfortable .... and the price and warranty are on the money.

I don't reckon you can go wrong buying one of these for your intended purpose !

0.02c

[TerryO]

There are good buys out there, for $45k you should be able to buy a really good D4 for that price and a D4 is way ahead of a D3 I hate to say, but it is.

Recently I bought a like new one owner 59,000 kilometre MY10 V8 D4 for not much more than your budget and the V8 comes with every single option that is offered on a D4 fitted as standard.

If you have the bucks ready to go you can get some good diesel deals if your ready to move quickly, as for V8's they often move slowly, the V8 I bought had been advertised for over three months and I was the only person to call about it.

Good luck with what ever vehicle you decide to buy.

[gossamer]

dukemasterpro is thinking of selling his D4
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/206479-new-car-time.html

[discomania]

The agony of choice!

I saw a D4 2.7 TDV6 with about 100k at a dealer (not LR) this afternoon and stopped for a look. Almost unmarked white duco light interior and presents well and sticker price $46k.

There's plenty of stock around for those prepared to wait, as many corporate ex-lease cars come up, generally with a full service history. Decisions, decisions..

[Meken]

There are good buys out there, for $45k you should be able to buy a really good D4 for that price and a D4 is way ahead of a D3 I hate to say, but it is.



Recently I bought a like new one owner 59,000 kilometre MY10 V8 D4 for not much more than your budget and the V8 comes with every single option that is offered on a D4 fitted as standard.



If you have the bucks ready to go you can get some good diesel deals if your ready to move quickly, as for V8's they often move slowly, the V8 I bought had been advertised for over three months and I was the only person to call about it.



Good luck with what ever vehicle you decide to buy.


That's a great buy !!

[discotwinturbo]

Isuzu build great engines. Period!

My dad has a sitec 450 (5.4 litre 4 cylinder) ? Isuzu truck and he can't want to get rid of it. 60k has been nothing but a nightmare for him in the past 4 years, and has been towed numerous times.

He now displays a sign to stay away from Isuzu due to poor after sales support.

Brett....

[justinc]

My dad has a sitec 450 (5.4 litre 4 cylinder) ? Isuzu truck and he can't want to get rid of it. 60k has been nothing but a nightmare for him in the past 4 years, and has been towed numerous times.

He now displays a sign to stay away from Isuzu due to poor after sales support.

Brett....

The scitec series are/ can be a little unreliable...however the 4jj1tcx in the mux is a fantastic engine, the 5spd auto is from the petrol v8 lc200, and the pcm software/ program is well matched engine to trans. They are no d3, but very good value and so far have been pretty much trouble free. Jc

[dukemasterpro]

dukemasterpro is thinking of selling his D4
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/206479-new-car-time.html


Cheers mate - planning to trade but possibly open to another offer directly. New car eta 24th Oct

[CaptAwsm]

So, I've recently bought a D3 Tdv6 and its road holding is fantastic. Haven't tried it offload but pretty sure there's enough opinions here to tell you how capable they are. Oh, and the third row! It's fantastic! I've some mates who are a little on the large side and they fit comfortably in the back.

As for Pajero, their traction control is actually quite impressive. I have a mate with an '07 and it was travelling over wombat holes with ease. And this on bald H/Ts.

But it's up to you, an older D3 will need some maintenance (as mine has done) however on road/off road manners are great. All in that airbag suspension. Pajeros are generally reliable, only seen a few issues with their Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF).

If you have the cash, and feel its the choice for you, get an MU-X. My old men's actually looking at buying one. I look forward to comparing my D3 to a MU-X.

Ben.

[SaintMike]

Thanks Ben, Appreciate the opinion, in fact this is a great site for informative, well balanced discussion. Do you think the D3's are any more expensive to maintain than say a similar year Pajero?

[CaptAwsm]

So Mike, in the month I've had my D3 I've already had to spend $1400 on a transmission flush and steel pan gasket conversion on the auto box (search 'steel pan conversion' for more info) but that was mainly piece of mind, insurance and necessity for a car that had done over 200k kms quite obviously towing a caravan.

'07 Pajero DiD i'm working off will most likely be the same boat. There'll be stuff that will need to be getting replaced (i.e Suspension bushes, shocks, springs... just the age of it). The difference is Pajeros are a much simpler (read:traditional) sort of 4wd. Part-time 4WD, Pneumatic engagement of the front diff (IIRC), independently coil sprung.

The reason i buy Land Rover is simple. I'm lazy. My D3 has auto headlights, auto wipers, a lovely auto box and from past experience in my D2 Td5, all i ever did was engage the Centre Diff Lock and the car walked over anything! The D3 with the airbag suspension has been described to me as a sofa. The onyl issue my mate has raised with his DiD Pajero is its a little loud. Not Hilux diesel loud, but enough to eb noticeable. One ride in my D3 and he gets out saying "I want to get one".

As I say, its your decision. I can't comment on bang for buck because I reckon Pajeros and Land Rover D3s are pretty equal on price and fuel economy. It all depends if you can deal with the uniqueness of Land Rovers or if you want the easier, generic 4wd that is a Pajero.

Or a new MU-X :D

Ben.

[chuck]

Depending on how long you can wait have you thought about the new Ford Everest.
It the Ranger version of the DMax Mux.

If it drives as well as a Ranger it should be good & in the price range you are looking at.

I think it is due out early next year.

[Redback]

Thanks Ben, Appreciate the opinion, in fact this is a great site for informative, well balanced discussion. Do you think the D3's are any more expensive to maintain than say a similar year Pajero?

What about a Challenger;)
2014 Mitsubishi Challenger MY14 Sports Automatic (http://www.carsales.com.au/demo/details/Mitsubishi-Challenger-2014/AGC-AD-16432551/?Cr=18&sdmvc=1)

Great car, good on and offroad, rear locker is standard, comfy, economical, look good, good room for there size, and under $45,000 new.

Baz.

[rar110]

What about a Challenger;) 2014 Mitsubishi Challenger MY14 Sports Automatic (http://www.carsales.com.au/demo/details/Mitsubishi-Challenger-2014/AGC-AD-16432551/?Cr=18&sdmvc=1) Great car, good on and offroad, rear locker is standard, comfy, economical, look good, good room for there size, and under $45,000 new. Baz.

It also has an impressive cargo area for its size.

[pibby]

What about a Challenger;)
2014 Mitsubishi Challenger MY14 Sports Automatic (http://www.carsales.com.au/demo/details/Mitsubishi-Challenger-2014/AGC-AD-16432551/?Cr=18&sdmvc=1)

Great car, good on and offroad, rear locker is standard, comfy, economical, look good, good room for there size, and under $45,000 new.

Baz.

uncle of mine has one of these. been in it a few times. very narrow. comfy? - i'd use capable.

towed 2.5t of caravan around aus no prob. it does the job but he no longer talks about it as anything more than a vehicle now as opposed to being more than just reliable transport.

[TerryO]

Sorry but I'm not sure why anyone would recommend a Mu-x, Challenger, Colarado L7 or any other similar priced 7 seat 4x4 wagon when compared to even a base model D4 as long as the D4 is in good condition with reasonable low mileage on the clock.

The D4 is light years ahead of these other bits of gear on many fronts including drive quality, comfort, towing capability and stability, off road capability, storage room and one only has to drive one to know this.

Sure if the absolute prerequisite was the need to buy a brand new 4x4 wagon for under $45k then sure, but it's not.

[Redback]

Sorry but I'm not sure why anyone would recommend a Mu-x, Challenger, Colarado L7 or any other similar priced 7 seat 4x4 wagon when compared to even a base model D4 as long as the D4 is in good condition with reasonable low mileage on the clock.

The D4 is light years ahead of these other bits of gear on many fronts including drive quality, comfort, towing capability and stability, off road capability, storage room and one only has to drive one to know this.

Sure if the absolute prerequisite was the need to buy a brand new 4x4 wagon for under $45k then sure, but it's not.

Because he mentioned the MU-x and his budget is $45k, nothing wrong with giving him other options.

Baz.

[Epic pooh]

I was acting on the "if you have to ask" theory. I regard the Disco as a work of automotive art - and you know the thing with art is that it's in the eye of the beholder !

[spudboy]

I think this Chevy TrailBlazer is the same as the MU-X (just re-badged?), and it gets a very good review:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HycED_XLUx8