300tdi head change. Other parts?

[Dougal]

So I need to change the head on a 300tdi.

Other than the usual parts (head, head gaskets) what should I be buying to replace at the same time?

Engine has done ~330,000km and I think it's been overheated many many times and others have been in at least replacing gaskets. So I'll be buying new bolts too.

[Mocky]

Rings can also loose their tension if badly overheated.

Mocky

[Dougal]

Rings can also loose their tension if badly overheated.

Mocky

Yeah I don't want to think about that.:)

[Dougal]

So I've ordered:
A built up head.
A gasket set (excludes head gasket).
Water pump and gasket
A head bolt set.
Thermostat
Timing belt
Heater hoses.

Anything else? Actual head gasket will be ordered once I've determined the thickness required.

[87County]

So I've ordered:
A built up head.
A gasket set (excludes head gasket).
Water pump and gasket
A head bolt set.
Thermostat
Timing belt
Heater hoses.

Anything else? Actual head gasket will be ordered once I've determined the thickness required.

In addition to the w/pump gasket replace the "p" gasket which goes between the w/ pump housing and the block

Not just the timing belt but get the complete kit with seals, gasket and tensioner & idler

You'll probably need new copper gaskets for your injectors and possibly new spill tubing for them - these can all be got at a local diesel shop

If you damage the soft bolt heads on the front cover or ex manifold when getting them undone, you can replace them with socket head s/s bolts of appropriate length

I'm sure there will be more I haven't thought of.

[jboot51]

locating dowels for the head. 2 of them

[87County]

locating dowels for the head. 2 of them

I just use the old ones :)

[bee utey]

New valve lash caps.

[isuzurover]

New valve lash caps.

This. And only get genuine. I had a set wear through in about 500 km. Since then I have also enlarged the oil hole in the head gasket.

[Spel1]

A new set of injector hold-down studs, if you are sticking with standard. After a few times torqued to 25nm they stretch and break. Or make some, either way have something on hand.

[Dougal]

Thanks guys.

Injector washers and lash caps are in the genuine Elrig gasket set. Genuine pump is coming with a gasket too. There's a timing belt tensioner floating around in the back of the vehicle so I suspect it's been changed in recent history.

The injector studs are interesting. Does a new AMC complete head not come with injector studs installed?

[Spel1]

The AMC complete (with valves and springs) head I got from Turner's had no studs at all, including manifold, they all had to be swapped across.

Are you talking about the timing belt or serpentine? Timing belt tensioner is not something you would expect to be floating around.

Unless its a total rebuild, personally I wouldn't tackle timing and head at the same time - I prefer to do one major task at a time, if the timing is functional before you start the head project, its one less thing that can be out during reassembly. Same goes the other way round. If you do both, and there is a problem, you will then be faced with: Is it head or is it timing? Hope that makes sense.

Also, I'm with Isuzurover on the lash caps - though can't speak for Crane ones. I had a bad experience with the Turner's hardenened caps, which I fitted with new rocker arms. They were so hard, and so "unsmooth" and had square 90º shoulders and not the angled/chamfered shape of the standard ones, that they actually wore themselves right into the new rockers within 2K km. They sent me some more of both, the same happened again - they claimed my timing must out and the valves were hitting the pistons. They were not (another reason not to do the two major tasks at one time, the rockers I replaced were original and not real bad, if the timing was out they would have shown the same wear), but I checked anyway, all was spot on. Eventually bought a new set of rockers and OEM caps locally, that was nearly 30K km ago, and they still look like new, with only very minimal adjustments needed, like 1 thou on a couple of valves.

The Turner's head has been good though, and they did try and help. I just won't be buying their lash caps again.

[rick130]

New valve lash caps.


This. And only get genuine. I had a set wear through in about 500 km. Since then I have also enlarged the oil hole in the head gasket.

Actually I'd use aftermarket VW air cooled racing ones or Crane or Comp Cams 8mm ones.
Much more consistent, the current OEM Land Rover seem like cheese. Actually Fetta.

[isuzurover]

The injector studs are interesting. Does a new AMC complete head not come with injector studs installed?

if it is like mine it will come without studs or the injector posts

[87County]

Thanks guys.
...
The injector studs are interesting. Does a new AMC complete head not come with injector studs installed?

Mine didn't - I used the ones out of the old head, used my old lash caps as well - sounds like it was better to do that than use some of the replacements that have been obtained :) haven't experienced any change in valve clearances since.

A new fan belt tensioner wouldn't do any harm either - the belt starts to chirp when the tensioner is on the way out - the critical wear is not just in the pulley bearing but the tensioner shaft itself - some people pack them out with coins or washers but it's only a short term fix.

[Tank]

If your valve lash caps are in good condition use them, new Land Rover lash caps are rubbish, I will include address of previous posts on Lash Caps: Post # 30
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/151388-300tdi-valve-lash-caps-disintegrating-3.html
Also your old gasket will tell you the thickness required by the number of holes in edge of gasket, usually 3 holes, go for the laminated metal gasket, most new heads come supplied with them and some manufacturers void head warranty if you don't. Get Crane valve lash caps as per previous post and use plenty of engine rebuild lube on valve tip and lash cap, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Thanks guys.

Injector washers and lash caps are in the genuine Elrig gasket set. Genuine pump is coming with a gasket too. There's a timing belt tensioner floating around in the back of the vehicle so I suspect it's been changed in recent history.

The injector studs are interesting. Does a new AMC complete head not come with injector studs installed?
Take the advice of myself and others on the Valve Lash caps.
Also check that your valves are seating correctly by pouring some petrol into the ports and see if there are any leaks.
I bought a brand new AMC head and it leaked like a sieve, I lapped in all of the valves and no more leaks, some LOL Spanish lady that gets $10 a day would not be considered too good at assembling heads, I have seen new heads without valve spring seats under the springs, best head gasket is Victor Rienze, Regards Frank.

[rick130]

Re the fan belt tensioner, I've found here in Oz that it's cheaper to buy from a normal parts store (in my case, Bursons) than my usual Landy supplier.
It's a Dayco tensioner, can't recall their part # ATM.

[Spel1]

Re the fan belt tensioner, I've found here in Oz that it's cheaper to buy from a normal parts store (in my case, Bursons) than my usual Landy supplier.
It's a Dayco tensioner, can't recall their part # ATM.


x2. Bursons price was a lot less than even the ebay sellers. Around $90 last time I got one. Part# APV 1004 Land Rover part# is ERR4708

[Dougal]

If your valve lash caps are in good condition use them, new Land Rover lash caps are rubbish, I will include address of previous posts on Lash Caps: Post # 30
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/151388-300tdi-valve-lash-caps-disintegrating-3.html
Also your old gasket will tell you the thickness required by the number of holes in edge of gasket, usually 3 holes, go for the laminated metal gasket, most new heads come supplied with them and some manufacturers void head warranty if you don't. Get Crane valve lash caps as per previous post and use plenty of engine rebuild lube on valve tip and lash cap, Regards Frank.

This engine has been screwed with too much. I have zero confidence that the current gasket is the right one. I expect to just find the thickest one in there.

I have a good local supplier with all the MLS gasket thicknesses in stock.

[Spel1]

I think you mentioned that you already have (or ordered) an Elring gasket kit - when I got my head from Turner's they had supplied the Elring, I was disappointed at the time I didn't get the choice - I actually didn't think to ask at the time. But, with a time constraint I used it anyway, had to get back on the road. So far its been OK as its been a year (touching wood), so I would say the Elrings are not all that bad in my limited experience - they are a German product and the teutonic stuff generally is of good quality.

[Dougal]

I think you mentioned that you already have (or ordered) an Elring gasket kit - when I got my head from Turner's they had supplied the Elring, I was disappointed at the time I didn't get the choice - I actually didn't think to ask at the time. But, with a time constraint I used it anyway, had to get back on the road. So far its been OK as its been a year (touching wood), so I would say the Elrings are not all that bad in my limited experience - they are a German product and the teutonic stuff generally is of good quality.

Elring is supposed to be OEM. It was an easy choice between them and Britpart.

[Spel1]

Elring is supposed to be OEM. It was an easy choice between them and Britpart.

It was just that you mentioned that your supplier had MLS in stock - Elring are composite gaskets. The decent MLS are Victor Reintz - in case there has been any confusion.

[Dougal]

It was just that you mentioned that your supplier had MLS in stock - Elring are composite gaskets. The decent MLS are Victor Reintz - in case there has been any confusion.
I bought an elring kit which includes all the ancillary head gaskets but not the head to block gasket.
I will purchase the mls gasket locally when I have it apart to check the required thickness.

[Spel1]

OK sorry, misunderstood. Did not realise Elring made all the other stuff as a separate kit too.

[pawl]

Actually I'd use aftermarket VW air cooled racing ones or Crane or Comp Cams 8mm ones.
Much more consistent, the current OEM Land Rover seem like cheese. Actually Fetta.

X2
Yep, the set of genuine ones I got in the Elring gasket set turned into donuts and then the engine reco shop denied they were ever in the kit. So got a genuine set from an LR spares store and same thing, so went the racing ones and they have lasted years. Race ones are your best bet.
I remember the guy I got the last set of genuine lash caps off, I asked him if I could test them. I brought a metal file in with me and ran the base of the lash caps down the file, the soft lash caps grabbed the file as the file did it's job and the hardened race ones skated down as if on ice. He was shocked. I had to prove the point when no-one would believe me they were rubbish.

[Dougal]

So the parts have arrived.
The gasket set isn't an Elring (despite Elring being on the invoice), it's a Federal Mogul brand with an intake/exhaust gasket that looks like cardboard. Are they any good or should I send it back and ask for the Elring?

No valve stem caps in the set either. What's the description of the better VW items?

[loanrangie]

So the parts have arrived.
The gasket set isn't an Elring (despite Elring being on the invoice), it's a Federal Mogul brand with an intake/exhaust gasket that looks like cardboard. Are they any good or should I send it back and ask for the Elring?

No valve stem caps in the set either. What's the description of the better VW items?

They would be VW dak dak ones for aircooled kombi's etc, i have used FM gaskets on ford/holden V8's before but not on a TDI - i would ask for what you paid for, Elring.

[isuzurover]

If anyone has a part number for these improved lash caps I would also be interested.

[bee utey]

I bought a new head, bolts, elring gasket, lash caps from Turner Engineering for as friend of mine. Everything came as ordered in double quick time.

300TDI engine parts from Turner Engineering, LDF500180 cylinder head (http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/acatalog/300Tdi.html#a278)

[Dougal]

I bought a new head, bolts, elring gasket, lash caps from Turner Engineering for as friend of mine. Everything came as ordered in double quick time.

300TDI engine parts from Turner Engineering, LDF500180 cylinder head (http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/acatalog/300Tdi.html#a278)

The Elring gasket they're showing here:
http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/acatalog/300TDI_fitting_kit.jpg

Has a fair bit more detail sealing the exhaust ports than the flat-cut one in my Payen set. I have emailled paddocks.

[87County]

I bought a new head, bolts, elring gasket, lash caps from Turner Engineering for as friend of mine. Everything came as ordered in double quick time.

300TDI engine parts from Turner Engineering, LDF500180 cylinder head (http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/acatalog/300Tdi.html#a278)

I did the same - all has worked well for 18 months - reused the existing lash caps - valve clearance hasn't altered.

In my experience I'd go with Elring if available - I know Tank has a different opinion.

[steane]

Actually I'd use aftermarket VW air cooled racing ones or Crane or Comp Cams 8mm ones.
Much more consistent, the current OEM Land Rover seem like cheese. Actually Fetta.

I agree. Last set of genuine LR lash caps literally melted and disappeared. I wouldn't touch the genuine ones again.

[Dougal]

Paddocks have sent me an Elring gasket set. With the two (Payen and Elring) side by side there are some significant differences. But apparently the Elrings are currently in short supply.

The Payen looks to contain more parts and some (presumably rocker cover isolators) look nicer. But the Elring has a far better manifold gasket with reinforced exhaust ports etc. The Payen manifold gasket appears stamped from a single sheet and the internal edges are quite rough.

I'm still a long way off starting. Too many other jobs in the queue.

[Dougal]

Lash caps ordered. Cheap out of the states, but I had to use a shipping service to keep costs down. The quoted international shipping was $US51-117.:o

[Tank]

Lash caps ordered. Cheap out of the states, but I had to use a shipping service to keep costs down. The quoted international shipping was $US51-117.:o


Let us know how long it takes to get to you, Regards Frank.