Household solar

[olbod]

Bloke next has a double row solar system on his roof.
He is the only occupent.
I was told that he has not had a light bill this year and every six months Ergon pays for what he has supplied them.
I know how this works but not sure of the details as to units or thingy's that are measured as be used.
I am toying with the idea of going solar but dont know how to measure what I am charged for and what I might expect to be paid back if I use less than what is generated.
My average quarterly bill is around $250.
?

Ta.

[Vern]

https://www.solarmarket.com.au/solar-savings-calculator/
Olbod, see if this link helps. Just punch in the details.

[austastar]

Hi,
We installed 5kW (20 panels) in April. North facing at 20 deg, Hobart.
Todate we have produced 1,389 kW from the pannels.
24kW/day is the max so far, the worst day was about 3kW.

Cheers

[olbod]

Hi,
We installed 5kW (20 panels) in April. North facing at 20 deg, Hobart.
Todate we have produced 1,389 kW from the pannels.
24kW/day is the max so far, the worst day was about 3kW.

Cheers

Thanks Vern.

Aus mate thats interesting.
Up here in God's country I would say that our production would be consistently high.
On your last light bill, how many KW did you get charged for ?
Would you now have produced more than you used ?
My main interest is, how much do they pay per KW for the power that you have supplied back to them ?
I heard somewhere that it 44 cents per KW but then I think I also heard that it was 8 cents.

Cheers.

[WhiteD3]

Our 5kW system in Brisbane is designed to deliver an average of 22 kWhrs/day. West facing. We get 50c per exported kWhr which works for us as no one is home during the day, which has cut our bill by 50% to 70% depending on the weather.

Here's our data for the YTD.

http://www.aulro.com/app/uploads/14133/Capture.JPG

[p38arover]

We installed ours 4 years ago and the interest-free Green Loan has been paid off by the savings. Prices have dropped dramatically since then. I do wish I'd had a 5kW system installed instead of a 3kW system.

Our live outputs are here (missing recent stats for consumption owing to a failed USB-internet adapter which was replaced this week and most of August-Sept after a blackout which took down the monitoring whilst we were overseas).

p38arover 3.040kW | Live Output (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=309&sid=271)

[austastar]

Hi,


On your last light bill, how many KW did you get charged for ?

I have yet to get a complete bill period on solar.
The panels went on in April and the meter was changed over in May. I wasn't supposed to run the panels with the old meter as it ran backwards.
I couldn't resist the temptation, just kept an eye out for the meter man.



Would you now have produced more than you used ?

Yes, the digital meter reads 818kW used from the grid, 957kW exported.

In winter I use about twice what I produce.

In summer I expect to produce more than twice what I use.



My main interest is, how much do they pay per KW for the power that you have supplied back to them ?

I got in early enough to get a 28c buy back tariff, which is cost price.
This is only guaranteed for 5 years, but should be long enough to make the exercise profitable.

Cheers

[rovercare]

Bloke next has a double row solar system on his roof.
He is the only occupent.
I was told that he has not had a light bill this year and every six months Ergon pays for what he has supplied them.
I know how this works but not sure of the details as to units or thingy's that are measured as be used.
I am toying with the idea of going solar but dont know how to measure what I am charged for and what I might expect to be paid back if I use less than what is generated.
My average quarterly bill is around $250.
?

Ta.

Just pay your bill, half that will likely be service charge, what is you water heating? if its electric it is likely that is most of the rest, you use very little power, its still very viable but only really with larger bills

All the above owners basically have been of no help but to brag to you about their solar as they were all fitted in large feed in tariff days:D

[olbod]

Thank you all.
I think I will stay as I am for the moment.
I had a note from Ergon yesterday saying that with the carbon tax removed my future bills would be adjusted.
I will wait and see.
My initial thoughts about solar was that because I use very little at night,
only one lamp on because me place is pretty open plan, and being on my own and living here in the tropics, I might generate enough to get some coin back that I could put toward my rates.
During the day no lights, small washing machine wash once a week in cold water and a few hours on the computer.
Night, five minute shower, one light and a few hours tv.
If I am reading my bill for the last quarter correctly I averaged 10.3 kw daily.
This is what gave me the thought that I could run solar at a profit.
But that would now depend on the current going return rate I guess.

[rovercare]

Thank you all.
I think I will stay as I am for the moment.
I had a note from Ergon yesterday saying that with the carbon tax removed my future bills would be adjusted.
I will wait and see.
My initial thoughts about solar was that because I use very little at night,
only one lamp on because me place is pretty open plan, and being on my own and living here in the tropics, I might generate enough to get some coin back that I could put toward my rates.
During the day no lights, small washing machine wash once a week in cold water and a few hours on the computer.
Night, five minute shower, one light and a few hours tv.
If I am reading my bill for the last quarter correctly I averaged 10.3 kw daily.
This is what gave me the thought that I could run solar at a profit.
But that would now depend on the current going return rate I guess.

10-12 year payback on a good quality system with majority export, which you will be....less on cheaper, but cheaper is just that

Keep in mind the retailer shifts your peak rate up on a solar deal, so if you do not get the balance right, you will further worsen the return on your investment. also the feed in tariff's are low and in QLD I'd imagine its .08c

Don't fall for gimmicks that salesman use, the 2 most popular are

Interest free.....you have simply prepaid the interest in your purchase price

"we pay you Xc feed in tariff" again, you simply pre pay it

For those that have fallen for either of those, sorry, you've been taken for a ride:D

[austastar]

Hi,
Yep, the feed-in tariff is one reason why I bought in now, the other is that while now I use wood for heat/cooking/hot-water, I imagine at some stage at around age 75, chopping firewood will lose most of its fun factor.

When that time comes, I plan to turn on the element in the hot water cylinder, possibly triggered by a timer so it can suck on solar power, and save cutting wood when I can get out of it. When the feed-in tariff goes below purchase price, I will use as much solar power as I can.

My last bill for 91 days averaged 7.9 Kw per day, so we don't use a lot of power.

cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

What I would like to do is put on solar water. The panels are super efficient nowdays. A mate has one and he turns off his electric hot water system for nine or ten months of the year.

[p38arover]

Interest free.....you have simply prepaid the interest in your purchase price


In my case, my interest free loan was a govt. green loan (no longer available).

[blitz]

PM me and I will give you a call if you want, I have started installing them for a living, I'm a qualified Designer and installer. I can either write a bucket load or talk which is easier. But if anyone is interested I can go over all of it either here or in another post about it all.


cheers


Blythe

[Vern]

I'm the same as you Blythe, probably done about 300+ installs, from 1.5kw to 100kw, on, off grid, and fixed a lot of very rough dodgey jobs as well, very very over it, and plan to get out of it in the future. But if was to do it for myself again, I'd be adding batteries and going off grid with an AC coupled system, or battery back up:-)

[rovercare]

What I would like to do is put on solar water. The panels are super efficient nowdays. A mate has one and he turns off his electric hot water system for nine or ten months of the year.

Apricus evacuated tubes are the good units, they work really well, but generally a 10 year payback....unless you incorporate the costs of a replacement ground mount which is $1200ish usually, take 3 ish years off paypack which is good

I still have ground mount, waiting for a unit that is stand alone and uses PV to power your hot water...as I'm on feed in tariff and so are a lot of others, you can use Immersun units, they a pricey though $880 inc at cost last time.

The system that appears good is Hot PV from a mob in NZ, although I've not tried it

Also Wattson have immersion control units, but only in the UK at present.

[rovercare]

Hi,
Yep, the feed-in tariff is one reason why I bought in now, the other is that while now I use wood for heat/cooking/hot-water, I imagine at some stage at around age 75, chopping firewood will lose most of its fun factor.

When that time comes, I plan to turn on the element in the hot water cylinder, possibly triggered by a timer so it can suck on solar power, and save cutting wood when I can get out of it. When the feed-in tariff goes below purchase price, I will use as much solar power as I can.

My last bill for 91 days averaged 7.9 Kw per day, so we don't use a lot of power.

cheers

Could be like my old man, he is nearly 64, he must have 150-200m of cut and split firewood, his theory is to cut more than enough to see him out:)

[Graeme]

A solar salesman took one look at our power bill and suggested that as farmers we probably have better things to spend the money on. Apparently we have a very cheap off-peak rate which when combined with our usage and the access/meter reading charges makes it barely worthwhile installing solar panels. I wasn't keen anyway, just thought it prudent to check.

I gladly got out of chopping firewood 15 years ago in favor of electric cooking and off-peak water heating. Chopping and splitting firewood was never my idea of fun, not wiinter nor summer nor anywhere between.

[p38arover]

Re Blitz an Vern's comments above, it could be wise speaking to them.

There are hundreds (literally) of pages about dodgy solar installations on Whirlpool Dodgy solar installs - what not to do - Solar - Green tech - Whirlpool Forums (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm't=1430969)

The thread is so long it's had to be run in multiple parts. Some of the installs are positively dangerous, others are simply poorly done or positioned.

The company I bought from, Beyond Building Energy, went bust a few months after so there will be no warranty on mine should it fail. The install has some issues and would not meet install requirements now.

Beyond appear to have resumed operations under a new name in the same street on the Gold Coast according to a thread on Whirlpool. Beyond building phoenix - Solar - Green tech - Whirlpool Forums (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm't=2316675)

[rovercare]

I gladly got out of chopping firewood 15 years ago in favor of electric cooking and off-peak water heating. Chopping and splitting firewood was never my idea of fun, not wiinter nor summer nor anywhere between.

That's it, if you don't enjoy cutting wood, definitely don't put it in as your primary source of heat

Why lumberjacks really are more manly than footballers: Chopping wood 'produces 15% more testosterone than competitive sports' | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2400572/Why-lumberjacks-really-manly-footballers-Chopping-wood-produces-15-testosterone-competitive-sports.html)

[olbod]

I'll give it a miss but thanks for the information and discussion.

[Mick_Marsh]

Did someone mention lumberjacks?
I mus resist.
I mist resist.
Oh, bugger!
Monty Python- Lumberjack Song FULL - YouTube


All the solar panel companies that ring me and come out to assess my possible installation agree solar is not for me. You get a benefit by using solar and reducing what you draw from the grid during the day, reducing your bill by more than if you fed in through the day and drew from the grid at night.
Due to how I used my energy, it is not cost effective for me to install solar panels. I'm happy for people to convince me otherwise.

[austastar]

What I would like to do is put on solar water. The panels are super efficient nowdays.

Hi,
if you have a working hot water system already, rather than throwing it out and having major plumbing and electrical work done (panels, pump and plumbing, new tank etc) consider adding PV to your existing system.

i.e. 2kW panels feeding (via inverter) straight to your existing system.

Now I'm not a tradie, but you may be able to have a change over switch to get power from the grid or solar.

Of course if you go this far, you are only a few steps (new meter and more wiring) to a conventional domestic solar install.

I guess you will have to get advice from some one qualified to give professional advice and be able to calculate your optimum value for dollar.

Cheers

[rovercare]

All the solar panel companies that ring me and come out to assess my possible installation agree solar is not for me. You get a benefit by using solar and reducing what you draw from the grid during the day, reducing your bill by more than if you fed in through the day and drew from the grid at night.
Due to how I used my energy, it is not cost effective for me to install solar panels. I'm happy for people to convince me otherwise.

If you have had numerous companies say no, and generally they are horrendous at installing on people that wont get a good benfit, then I would consider it to be the case

Unless you can load shift into the day, its not viable

People with large bills, can easily load shift there energy requirements, A/C, swimming pool filtration and heaters are fantastic loads to shift, also Hot water can be, with a smaller element...but you are only effectively saving off peak prices here also......good to combine with large PV system though

[rovercare]

Hi,
if you have a working hot water system already, rather than throwing it out and having major plumbing and electrical work done (panels, pump and plumbing, new tank etc) consider adding PV to your existing system.

i.e. 2kW panels feeding (via inverter) straight to your existing system.

Now I'm not a tradie, but you may be able to have a change over switch to get power from the grid or solar.

Of course if you go this far, you are only a few steps (new meter and more wiring) to a conventional domestic solar install.

I guess you will have to get advice from some one qualified to give professional advice and be able to calculate your optimum value for dollar.

Cheers

Hence the comments I made previously in regards to HWS

I actively sell and install solar and 2 others that have replied also are atleast installing, I'm sure some views may vary slightly, but will generally be close.....although we all choose out own little bias for various reasons

I'll be looking further into this in the next 6 months or so as I plan to open up a shop and further move forward with this and a few other things.....I plan to test the HotPV on my own house over the course of the next year

http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQjBAwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easywarm.co.nz%2FHow-does-Hot-PV-work.html&ei=l0wnVJ3FL8qYyATO84KABg&usg=AFQjCNEv9EYxMHshauBhQGxbika25vJtAg&bvm=bv.76247554,d.b2U

[Mick_Marsh]

Hi,
if you have a working hot water system already, rather than throwing it out and having major plumbing and electrical work done (panels, pump and plumbing, new tank etc) consider adding PV to your existing system.

i.e. 2kW panels feeding (via inverter) straight to your existing system.

Now I'm not a tradie, but you may be able to have a change over switch to get power from the grid or solar.

Of course if you go this far, you are only a few steps (new meter and more wiring) to a conventional domestic solar install.

I guess you will have to get advice from some one qualified to give professional advice and be able to calculate your optimum value for dollar.

Cheers
What you suggest is less efficient than a dedicated hot water panel. The hot water panel ensures you get maximum energy from the sun at all times and is only boosted from other sources if required. A mate runs solely solar hot water and only boosts for two to three months of the year. He also has PV solar panels which he tells me would have been a big disappointment had he not been on a 60c/kWh feed in tariff.

[Mick_Marsh]

Unless you can load shift into the day, its not viable
That's the PV killer for me. I can't load shift.
The bulk of my energy usage is in off peak times.

[rovercare]

What you suggest is less efficient than a dedicated hot water panel. The hot water panel ensures you get maximum energy from the sun at all times and is only boosted from other sources if required. A mate runs solely solar hot water and only boosts for two to three months of the year. He also has PV solar panels which he tells me would have been a big disappointment had he not been on a 60c/kWh feed in tariff.

But you can simply overclock with more PV, also it doesn't boil off water if the system is poorly sized/orientated, does not add pumps, frost valves and other failure points....although it does add panels and an inverter, although panels are extremely robust.....the inverter on the other hand, be nice if SMA made one just for immersion:)

As for big disappointment, if he paid the same price and was on .08c tariff I'm sure he would, though its not the case

I have many customers with 4-5 year return on investment, but they are big load shifters and big consumers to enable them to do so

EDIT: by the way I'm sure you can find someone to tell you its a good idea and would suit you, if that's what you are after, it may not quite be the truth though....I'd put it in the category of "these new panels work fine in partial shade" sales tactic....the reason why I stopped doing subby work for lots of mobs, the Melbourne people were generally sharks and my mind could not deal with the guilt

[rovercare]

That's the PV killer for me. I can't load shift.
The bulk of my energy usage is in off peak times.

So then PV is not for you, no point dwelling on it

You can always spend that money on other ways to become more energy efficient, what is your consumption from?

[Mick_Marsh]

So then PV is not for you, no point dwelling on it

You can always spend that money on other ways to become more energy efficient, what is your consumption from?
I run two UPSs of about 600VA each which power comms equipment and standby mode for the entertainment equipment, then there is the fridge, clocks and water bed heater. They are my 24/7 loads. All other loads such as heating, HWS, lighting, computer and domestic services (washing, ironing, cooking, etc.) are in the evening.
Then, before spending money upgrading equipment, I have to evaluate the cost benefit analasys and approve the capital expenditure. Energy is cheap. It's the connection fees and charges that are the killer. When you look at the price per kWh compared to average income today and then compare that to say 20 years ago, it makes much more sense to buy another car or trailer.

[rovercare]

I run two UPSs of about 600VA each which power comms equipment and standby mode for the entertainment equipment, then there is the fridge, clocks and water bed heater. They are my 24/7 loads. All other loads such as heating, HWS, lighting, computer and domestic services (washing, ironing, cooking, etc.) are in the evening.
Then, before spending money upgrading equipment, I have to evaluate the cost benefit analasys and approve the capital expenditure. Energy is cheap. It's the connection fees and charges that are the killer. When you look at the price per kWh compared to average income today and then compare that to say 20 years ago, it makes much more sense to buy another car or trailer.

Heating/cooling is the large expense, whether tha be heating/cooling air/ water/ food its the big consumer generally

Lighting is a furphy, 100W light globe that's turned on for 10 hours a day consumes 1kw/hr of electrickery, people go overboard on low energy lighting with a terrible return on investment.....although I actually do like the SAL led downlights enough to fit them into my own home:D

The simple fact is, to abolish your service charges with PV at .08c KW/Hr, the return on your investment is atrocious, although it can be done

Personally I reckon $1.20/day for the priveledge of mains power is pretty good, but having spent enough time in a 3rd world country, your perception does change about "first world problems":)

Heating and cooling, how do you heat? how well insulated? take advantage of any benefits of the sun, windows etc...do you manage your house well? utelise openings/shading etc to its full advantage, is there things you could do to improve these things?

State government owned the power industry 20 years ago and gave you a gold star for being a large consumer i.e. slab heating, multi phast elec heater etc......times have changed a little since then

[Mick_Marsh]

Heating/cooling is the large expense, whether tha be heating/cooling air/ water/ food its the big consumer generally

Lighting is a furphy, 100W light globe that's turned on for 10 hours a day consumes 1kw/hr of electrickery, people go overboard on low energy lighting with a terrible return on investment.....although I actually do like the SAL led downlights enough to fit them into my own home:D

The simple fact is, to abolish your service charges with PV at .08c KW/Hr, the return on your investment is atrocious, although it can be done

Personally I reckon $1.20/day for the priveledge of mains power is pretty good, but having spent enough time in a 3rd world country, your perception does change about "first world problems":)

Heating and cooling, how do you heat? how well insulated? take advantage of any benefits of the sun, windows etc...do you manage your house well? utelise openings/shading etc to its full advantage, is there things you could do to improve these things?

State government owned the power industry 20 years ago and gave you a gold star for being a large consumer i.e. slab heating, multi phast elec heater etc......times have changed a little since then
Yes, first world problems.
I suspect my major daytime loads are the UPSs. Interestingly, this morning the power has failed here at least ten times. I only know this because I keep having to reset the clocks. My comms and entertainment equipment hav not powered down because they are on the UPSs. Did yuo know, on the NBN, when the power fails the data ports go down unless you have them on an additional UPS.
Yes, first world problems.

The only electrical components of my heating system are the thermostat and the fan. It is gas fueled. The house is well insulated in the roof. I think it would be an expensive exercise to insulate the walls and floor of the brick veneer home. Best buy a RFSV or FFR.

[rovercare]

Yes, first world problems.
I suspect my major daytime loads are the UPSs. Interestingly, this morning the power has failed here at least ten times. I only know this because I keep having to reset the clocks. My comms and entertainment equipment hav not powered down because they are on the UPSs. Did yuo know, on the NBN, when the power fails the data ports go down unless you have them on an additional UPS.
Yes, first world problems.

The only electrical components of my heating system are the thermostat and the fan. It is gas fueled. The house is well insulated in the roof. I think it would be an expensive exercise to insulate the walls and floor of the brick veneer home. Best buy a RFSV or FFR.

You must be on the end of a feeder that's not in a great state to have those sorts of outages, either that or you are number one on the load shed list:D

I have NBN and have had no dramas

The best thing I can suggest is fitting a wattson and you will get a good understanding of whats happening real time

Energeno design and manufacture products and services to assist people to maximise the efficiency of their energy usage and energy generation both online (http://www.diykyoto.com/au)

I can get you one if you like, I need to make another order from the wholesaler of these, they are great with data logging etc, but can be finicky with the software...I'm certainly not IT orientated though

I'm not sure the purchase of land rovers would be up there with wise investment ideas to be honest:D

[Mick_Marsh]

You must be on the end of a feeder that's not in a great state to have those sorts of outages, either that or you are number one on the load shed list:D
It's rather windy today. I suspect it's the overheads from the sub. I have HV out the front with a pole mounted transformer a few doors up.


I have NBN and have had no dramas
The UPS ensures seamless internet usage. I've always had UPSs on the comms equipment since.e back in the dialup modem days.


I'm not sure the purchase of land rovers would be up there with wise investment ideas to be honest:D
It is always a good time to buy a car, truck or trailer according to my cost/benefit analysis. I don't limit myself to Landrovers.