Review: Ashcroft LT230 ATB centre diff

[roverrescue]

So,
Have just returned from a corner country trip and considering the distinct lack of reviews when I bought this jigger I thought I would post one up.

This is what I am talking of:

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/diy-rebuild-kits/lt230-rebuild-kits/ashcroft-lt230-atb-diff.html)

Essentially a limited slip centre differential for the transfer case of landys that run the LT230.

To save reading all the below poorly written review the short version is, if you have a landy with an LT230 and drive on fast dirt (80-100km/h) just buy one.

Now the ramble.

My '95 130 tray back had a leaky transfer case from the good old wear induced oval of the case from the intermediate shaft. So I ordered up a set of seals, bearings and a Dave Ashcroft ATB centre diff. My rationale was that I spend a goodly amount of time on fast dirt but perhaps mostly that it would make "rebuilding" of the case much easier!
To fix the leak I essentially copied what has been done many times before, Noel (AncientMariner - http://www.aulro.com/afvb/modified-zone/172844-lt230.html) has previously documented this on AULRO. Turning up a 4140 collar for the "floating" end of the intermediate shaft that is pressed into the aluminium housing. This collar sealed very nicely using new 0-rings.

The case rebuild was relatively simple, having only pulled apart tojo cases I simply followed the LT230 overhaul manual... the only step I perhaps missed was taking insufficient care pressing in the front output housing bearing resulting in broken housings and a rescue trip care of Noel!

Anyways the case all got stitched back together nicely. I had intended to get the case and gear bag all back in and take it for a few hundred km trial run but work went spastic, I broke the housing, spent an inordinate amount of time increasing heat proofing and was waiting on delivery of a cooler for the R380 so in the end the ute was only stitched together on the Sunday prior to a Monday departure two weeks ago. The trial run was a 5000km roady !!! No scary noises and all went well in the first few hundred so I pushed on...

The route we took from Cooktown to Tibooburra was as straight line as possible incorporating plenty of dirt as you would expect. We did a loop through the Strez and Innaminka back through the corner and across to Currawinya before straight lining back to Cooktown. My theory is a dirt road at 80-90 is a million times more interesting than black stuff at 100 so taking station tracks and secondary roads makes sense to me. All up five grand or so with about 2/3 of that on gravel.

The ATB is freaking awesome on fast gravel. Full stop the end.

I am somewhat cut from a cloth worn by Rick130 (always keep your front bump stops shiny) and the control given of the ATB on gravel is fantastic. Obviously I couldnt directly compare to a truly open centre but from what I recall the ATB controls front-rear shunting (most notable on skatey corrugated fast open corners) brilliantly. It gives a very direct and even and safe cornering attitude with no significant or ugly looseness. I had to try really really really hard to get the rear to step out of line. In all honesty this simple modification is a major safety feature. Unlike an open centre it is really hard to get into oversteer on a loose corner.

I spent a bit of time generating a direct comparison between ATB vs locked centre diff. Previously I would always lock the centre on fast gravel to give more direct cornering (and obviously protect the diff). One issue with a locked centre is a tendency to push understeer. This was very noticeable flicking between locked and ATB on the same road surfaces. I preferred ATB by far on fast gravel. The other big difference between ATB and locked is on particularly uneven road surfaces, potholes, dust holes and whoops. A locked centre will tend to grab either the front or rear axle which ever finds traction first, this gives a shunt and introduces unsteadiness to travel. The ATB over the same surfaces seems un-fazed by these effects.

All in all I am stoked with the ATB and would recommend it.

Now a few details for those that care:
-Neck wrunged 300tdi 1995 130 defender.
-Barwork, winch, alloy tray, roof top tent.
-Would have been at about 2800kg.
-Averaged 13L/100 (actual km not speedo estimate)
-235/85R16 Bridgy muds running 30psi cold font and 42psi cold rear.
-Bilsteins allround - only noticed fade at the end of a 900km day with 650km on dirt.
-Rear Springs OEM main coils with polyairs inside
-Front Springs Kings ~220lb/in (old and worn)


Tomorrow the plan is to change out the t-case fluid. Obviously will look for obvious contaminates but dont expect to find anything too dramatic.

Steve

[CraigE]

Did not know they made them for the trans case, have been looking at the ATB for front and rear diffs, so may actually need 3:o Minister for finance will be shell shocked when i can afford them.
Thanks for the review.

[Naks]

Thanks very much for the review!

How does this ATB work though? The Ashcroft site doesn't really explain?

[Slunnie]

Sounds excellent Steve. A couple of questions:

With the ATB installed is there still the ability to lock the centre diff?

Does this get rid of the bushes in the centre diff that wear and create lash in the driveline?

[justinc]

Hi simon, because steve will no doubt be sleeping off the effects of too much west coast cooler, the answer to your questions is a yes to both :-)
Jc

[roverrescue]

Correct JC on the sleep off but at least I dont drink pink fizzy Vodka ;)

Simon, to elaborate on "yes to both" the Ashcroft unit replaces the entire centre differential assembly including shaft, front and rear splined outputs and actual differential.
So at rebuild it is a simple matter of pressing off one bearing, removing the high range gear, high/low hub and low range gear. Putting these onto the Ashcroft jigger and then installing the new bearings.

The unit completely negates the wearing shims, spider gears and two piece cross shaft of the OEM centre differential and too boot makes setup at rebuild a dozzle. You dont need to setup the centre differential pre-load etc etc.

There are no other changes to the box so the diff lock (which works in the front output housing by sliding a dog onto the front output) is unchanged.

One thing I saw no mention of either on the Ashcroft site or with the unit was recommended oil. Currently it is swimming in Castrol 80W-90. I presumed that the T-Case ATB is the same as Ashcrofts other ATBs using " 'Helical Gear' type LSD with six gear pockets".
If Dave Ashcroft is listening have you any input on oiling? Will 80W-90 cover suit in hot running conditions?

Steve

[Slunnie]

Sounds excellent, thanks JC and Steve. Certainly sounds like a good option.

[workingonit]

Thanks for the write up Steve. As you say, its an easy install. I put one in primarily to remove centre diff vulnerabilities (thrust washer wear. two pins instead of one machined unit etc); plus not having to shift in and out of lock when alternating regularly on hard and soft surfaces. And then when the going gets tough you can also lock it.

If Ashcroft could figure out lockable front and rear diff ATB's it would be the ideal set up for those without traction control.

[Ancient Mariner]

Sounds excellent, thanks JC and Steve. Certainly sounds like a good option.
You just don't drive it hard enough to break things.
__________________
Cheers
Slunnie

Maybe you don't drive hard enough to need one:o:D

AM

[Slunnie]

You just don't drive it hard enough to break things.
__________________
Cheers
Slunnie

Maybe you don't drive hard enough to need one:o:D

AM
You hung on to that one didn't you! :lol2: But possibly! :(

It sounds like good option so the centre diff doesn't keep wearing but with drive benefits.

[BigJon]

How did you buy the diff? I can't even see reference to it on their website.

[Disco Muppet]

Jon, here ya go!

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/diy-rebuild-kits/lt230-rebuild-kits/ashcroft-lt230-atb-diff.html

Cheers for the review.....now I need 3 :( :D

[rick130]

Bloody good write up Steve !

[Disco Muppet]

What's it like on blacktop?

[BigJon]

What's it like on blacktop?

I would imagine no different to standard, possibly less driveline backlash.

[Disco Muppet]

Orsum.

[workingonit]

Don't want to ignore our South African brother NAKS question (incase we want to visit and have him put us for the night :)) there are animated mechanical clips on the net. I know there are free floating gears in hollows in the casing that can be caused to 'rub' against the sides of the hollow to create friction and force traction to the stationary wheel - never quite understand why the out of control spinning wheel needs a little bit of traction to cause the 'rub' effect to send power to the stationary wheel. One would think the out of control wheel with no traction what so ever would be transmitting large amounts of power through the diff to the stationary wheel - but this doesn't happen.

Regarding oil, I just assume the same as for the standard diff. Did wonder how reactive heavier or lighter oils might make it - probably relies more on the gear binding with the side of the casing than the oil viscosity, but more viscous oil might increase the time it takes for the gear to travel through the oil (probably adds nano-seconds).

[isuzurover]

Bloody good write up Steve !

x2. Just a shame these didn't exist when I bought my one piece cross shafts.

[Vern]

Same with me ben, may get one next year and build the other lt230 I have on the bench.

[rick130]

x2. Just a shame these didn't exist when I bought my one piece cross shafts.


Same with me ben, may get one next year and build the other lt230 I have on the bench.
I was supposed to have bought one a few months back but have had a succession of unexpected expenses that would have bought the centre, a rebuild kit and a set of Maxi low range gears and then some.
Just the way it goes sometimes.

[workingonit]

To side track Vern - seen this? Just more stuff to do...:(

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/modified-zone/172844-lt230.html

[rick130]

Finally getting onto this Steve, ATB and master rebuild kit have left the UK, should be here next week. :D

[roverrescue]

Rick,
You and I drive pretty similarly.
You will totally love the drive of it - ATB adds speed to every dirt corner and undulation.

Are you sleeving the case for the lay-shaft?

Steve

[rick130]

Yep.

Ringing MR for a new low range gearset during the week too. :D

Tossing up whether to get a changeover case or just take a couple of more days and do this one.
Serg and I have been discussing this, he's rebuilding two cases ATM, just took delivery of some changeover ones from MR during the week, but I'm a bit far away for that.
I'm a bit reticent to take the old girl off the road seeing as it was only started for the first time since Christmas last Sunday. :angel:

[Vern]

Well just emptied my wallet on one of these, better be worth it😕

[rick130]

Well just emptied my wallet on one of these, better be worth it😕


It is. :D

[Vern]

Thanks rick, i figure i am changing transcases and gearboxes searching for the right ratios so may as well do it right!

[justinc]

Thanks rick, i figure i am changing transcases and gearboxes searching for the right ratios so may as well do it right!

Having fitted quite a few now everyone is rapt with them. On and off road. You are going to be too Damien ☺☺

Jc

[cal415]

Just curious as to what these are costing and if people are buying direct from Ashcroft? looking at this option myself at the moment - i know i can get one locally for around 800, which seems a long way over the 345 pounds Ashcroft have them listed for on there website, but i have no idea what shipping on these would be.

[Tank]

Did anyone find out what's the recommended oil to use, Regards Frank.

[justinc]

Hi Frank we've always used A Penrite 80w90. We've fitted about 5 now to transfer cases and quite a few atb's in diffs too.

Jc

[cal415]

Justinc, what do you charge for these and install? How are they holding up long term?

[Tins]

Yep.

Ringing MR for a new low range gearset during the week too. :D


Have to say, the MaxiDrive low range gear set in the D1is probably the best mod it has. That, and the MD axles and rear locker is why I bought the car when my son was letting it go.

[Vern]

Cal, mine was just under $1k delivered with master rebuild kit from ashcrofts.

[cal415]

Looks like these have been around for a few years now, a question for anyone who installed them early on, how are they holding up after a bit of use?

[dero]

I have put 75,000km on mine . It is my work and play ute , rough gravel roads are the norm every day , just did a trip SW WA to Kalumburu and back , loaded up and towing a 19ft boat .
It has given no trouble at all & as others have said , it is a pleasure in use .

[rick130]

Did anyone find out what's the recommended oil to use, Regards Frank.

Frank, anything without LSD friction modifiers is the best bet, Justin's Penrite recommendation is a good one.
FWIW a GL5 manual trans fluid might even be better as the friction coefficient should match the characteristics of the device.

[4runnernomore]

Well I am now up for some significant $$$ on my D2 as fifth gear let go last night.:soapbox: I had been nursing the box along for a while now so it was sort of expected[bigwhistle]

My D2 Chaffy has now down just over 200000 km and has been used for what he was intended for before I bought him. ( well used offroad).

I am looking at a replacement R380 with heavy duty bearings added from Ashcroft's and because of the km's have been advised to replace the transfer as well (do it it once and do it right philosophy) i have already added the extended transfer case sump around 10000km ago.

As Rangie man mentioned should have added I also have centre difflock fitted.

Having the sleeved case option added and I am torn between the heavy duty cross pin or the ATB (actually torn on price £45 verses£300). My heart says I NEED AN ATB. .[bigsmile]

Considering the significant outlay is it worth spending the extra significant coin on adding the ATB or stick with the heavy duty cross pin option?

FYI, I am looking at keeping the D2 long term. :ehigh5:

I look forward to your replies, would especially love to hear from JC from his business and customer experience.

CHEERS, Chris:twobeers:

[rangieman]

Well I am now up for some significant $$$ on my D2 as fifth gear let go last night.:soapbox: I had been nursing the box along for a while now so it was sort of expected[bigwhistle]

My D2 Chaffy has now down just over 200000 km and has been used for what he was intended for before I bought him. ( well used offroad).

I am looking at a replacement R380 with heavy duty bearings added from Ashcroft's and because of the km's have been advised to replace the transfer as well (do it it once and do it right philosophy) i have already added the extended transfer case sump around 10000km ago.

Having the sleeved case option added and I am torn between the heavy duty cross pin or the ATB (actually torn on price £45 verses£300). My heart says I NEED AN ATB. .[bigsmile]

Considering the significant outlay is it worth spending the extra significant coin on adding the ATB or stick with the heavy duty cross pin option?

FYI, I am looking at keeping the D2 long term. :ehigh5:

I look forward to your replies, would especially love to hear from JC from his business and customer experience.

CHEERS, Chris:twobeers:
Those that have done it will say yeah for several reasons and one is to justifie their expense.
Personally the cost to me out weigh`s what id get in return compared to a stengthened cdl x pin and that is if you have manual Cdl actuator which i do [wink11]
Im not knocking Ashcrioft gear as im a true believer and user of his stuff [thumbsupbig]
This is just my opinion from another angle which you asked for[bigwhistle]

[rick130]

I say yes to the ATB as it reduces backlash considerably and isn't prone to the wear (thrust washers) that the centre diff is.
If I keep my D2 it'll be getting one when I add the cdl.

Having fitted and used one, I'm a believer.
It made the 130 so much nicer on dirt/gravel it isn't funny.

[4runnernomore]

Those that have done it will say yeah for several reasons and one is to justifie their expense.
Personally the cost to me out weigh`s what id get in return compared to a stengthened cdl x pin and that is if you have manual Cdl actuator which i do [wink11]
Im not knocking Ashcrioft gear as im a true believer and user of his stuff [thumbsupbig]
This is just my opinion from another angle which you asked for[bigwhistle]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate your feedback.


I have adjusted my post as I do have the centre difflock fitted https://www.aulro.com/afvb/webkit-fake-url://4a35da55-3dc9-46b8-9def-78b48346126b/imagegif.

My head and hip pocket is telling me HD cross pin.

But the more I read especially about the back lash issue the more I want a ATB. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/webkit-fake-url://5b0a2c57-e52d-41a8-9106-5aa6bcfda08f/imagegif

My options may be already set out for me as the Ashcroft sight is out of stock on the ATB's at the moment.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/webkit-fake-url://e499b572-9127-4cfa-9900-d898e7cf876d/imagegif

[justinc]

100% ATB. The backlash reduction isn't the only plus. Incredible strength, and most noticeable the handling on high speed dirt is excellent 😎😎.

ATB all the way☺

[4runnernomore]

Well I have sent an email to Ashcroft's requesting quotation with the ATB[bigwhistle]

will now have to wait and see hopefully I will recover a reply on Monday.

Cheers, Chris

[workingonit]

Chris (4runnernomore), the ATB centres are relatively easy to fit yourself. I have one already installed, and another on the bench waiting - you want to see one 'live'?

I can also show you a standard centre diff with broken pins, and the Ashcroft solid pin - put those two items together beside an ATB and the decision should not be too difficult[bigsmile1]

[4runnernomore]

Chris (4runnernomore), the ATB centres are relatively easy to fit yourself. I have one already installed, and another on the bench waiting - you want to see one 'live'?

I can also show you a standard centre diff with broken pins, and the Ashcroft solid pin - put those two items together beside an ATB and the decision should not be too difficult[bigsmile1]


Wow, would really appreciate that" I am heading out of town again for the week but will be back next weekend. May be we could meet up?

Cheers, Chris

[tact]

Well I have sent an email to Ashcroft's requesting quotation with the ATB[bigwhistle]

will now have to wait and see hopefully I will recover a reply on Monday.

Cheers, Chris

Don't forget that buying from AUS you don't have to pay the VAT, save 20% on the price I think....

[blitz]

Fantastic to hear, I've got a tricked up one with the ATB from ashcroft sitting on the garage floor waiting to go in

i took a punt with it thinking has to be better than the original I fried

and I must also give a big thumbs up to Ashcroft as they were very patient with my zillion questions before I laid the money down. I now own the most heavy duty one they build and It arrived a bit over a fortnight later from the UK to my door

Thats service

[blitz]

Well I have sent an email to Ashcroft's requesting quotation with the ATB[bigwhistle]

will now have to wait and see hopefully I will recover a reply on Monday.

Cheers, Chris

Chris

i got one from them with every conceivable extra I could get them to add on and I think it cost $500-00 more for them to build and send from the UK that I could buy a second hand one from a well known wrecker here in Adelaide.

I cannot recommend them highly enough

Blythe

[4runnernomore]

Well for better or worse I have confirmed and paid for a new gearbox and transfer with HD bearings, sleeved casing and ATB. [thumbsupbig]

the old plastic just melted [bigwhistle].

I am hoping once the order is ready for dispatch. I will receive a partial refund as the postage came up a lot dearer than the quote via email. No discount on the items, they were at website price. [bigsad]

Now the waiting game begins :bat:

cheers Chris

[4runnernomore]

Fantastic to hear, I've got a tricked up one with the ATB from ashcroft sitting on the garage floor waiting to go in

i took a punt with it thinking has to be better than the original I fried

and I must also give a big thumbs up to Ashcroft as they were very patient with my zillion questions before I laid the money down. I now own the most heavy duty one they build and It arrived a bit over a fortnight later from the UK to my door

Thats service


Hi Blitz,
so apart for allowing the government and their agencies taking their cut is there anyone else I need to notify or will they all contact me direct?.

cheers Chirs

[rick130]

Hi Blitz,
so apart for allowing the government and their agencies taking their cut is there anyone else I need to notify or will they all contact me direct?.

cheers Chirs
you pay your $ and it just turns up. ;)

[workingonit]

When the auto box I ordered from Ashcroft arrived in Darwin the freight company started playing games and would not release it.

The freight company said customs had to inspect it. They said I would also have to complete customs forms, and that it would be a difficult process understanding what was required. Once I sent the forms to customs it would probably take a week or more for customs to reply. In the mean time the freight company would charge me storage fees on a daily basis. Alternatively, the storage company could complete customs forms for me and have clearance in a day because of their experience in dealing with customs on a regular basis, but for a hefty fee roughly equivalent to a weeks storage.

You might want to talk to customs in advance.

[dero]

I did a very similar thing a while back .
Talk to customs first is very good advice [ in person , over the counter ]
A letter from Ashcroft stating that it has come direct from a reconditioning factory would have saved me a lot of time and money not having to have it cleared by the ag dept, for foot & mouth etc.
The customs import form has a thousand very vague catagories , that is where the agents get you , but if you talk to a friendly customs dept staff , they can help a lot .
Having done it once , it is fairly easy , but the first time can be a trap for the unwary .

[rick130]

Interesting.

I had no issues buying an ATB plus TC rebuild kit from Ashcroft's, or two Tom Wood driveshafts (admittedly they came in under the $1000 threshold) or any lot of smaller stuff from the US.

I think the Ashcrofts stuff came via DHL and the TW shafts via UPS while most of the smaller stuff was USPS.

[dero]

Mine was a complete box , well over the $1000 threshold .
Came via DHL , fairly good service , but I had to either pay or do all the running around myself .
If you knew the process , it would be quite easy , but it is hard to get anyone to tell you .
I was fairly lucky that the customs officer I spoke to was helpfull.

[Tins]

When the auto box I ordered from Ashcroft arrived in Darwin the freight company started playing games and would not release it.

The freight company said customs had to inspect it. They said I would also have to complete customs forms, and that it would be a difficult process understanding what was required. Once I sent the forms to customs it would probably take a week or more for customs to reply. In the mean time the freight company would charge me storage fees on a daily basis. Alternatively, the storage company could complete customs forms for me and have clearance in a day because of their experience in dealing with customs on a regular basis, but for a hefty fee roughly equivalent to a weeks storage.

You might want to talk to customs in advance.

Having been bent over when importing an Ashcroft R380, I would very much have to agree. I had a thread on here somewhere.


Here we go: Importing stuff...Grrr... (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/159663-importing-stuff-grrr-7.html)

[4runnernomore]

Well gear box and transfer was built on Friday. Received notification tonight that the package is been sent off tonight (Australian time) with TNT.

Ashcrofts are including a letter stating package is not a bio hazard as it has come from a sterile rebuild facility so hopefully no hold ups with quarantine.

spoke to customs on Friday for advice. Told them the package was coming with TNT door to door.

they advised that TNT will be in contact once the package arrives for the duty and gst tax. Appariently TNT will do all the paperwork.

Heres hoping. We will see how long it takes to arrive in Darwin.


CHEERS Chris

[1nando]

Ive got the Ashcroft atb and output shaft combo in mine and its unbelievable. The sense of security and invincibility it gives you is amazing. Even in low range i forget to lock my diff centre sometimes cause its so effective. No clunking and definitely less noisy then before. Highly recommend it!

[4runnernomore]

well after a long wait Chaffy is finally back on the road. picked him up on Friday night. Ran around town for two days and then drove down to KTOWN.

There is no clunking at all from the drivetrain which is amazing. The shift on the 5speed is still a bit stiff and firm. Hopefully will loosen up as we get a few kms on it. The box has been adjusted a couple of times to try and get the shift to be a bit easier. Slipping back into first and changing into third are the main two.

Should have over 1000km in the next two weeks on the new drivetrain and will drop the oils and refill with (very expensive) fresh golden goodness. Hopefully the shift will have started to free up.

I feel the temps area running a bit high in the gearbox at the moment and hopefully it is due to the box been new. Up here Inthe Territory doing 120-130 box was up to 94 degrees.

Big shout out to Leigh and the lads at Nightcliffe Service Centre for all their hard work.

Cheers, Chris

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Old thread I know but I'm signed for one of these. Hopefully a good thing.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I have it fitted. Can confirm all the "snatch" in the drivetrain is gone. It's quite a different car to drive now.

Not really any 4x4 experience yet - but it sure goes into and out of difflock muuuuch better than it used to.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Little update on this. Used the ATB on fraser for a week and a half. I only actually locked the diff a couple of times. The rest just left it open. No dramas.