Old Girl Sally is dripping blood!

[roverrescue]

I think I must be the very first 'fender owner to face this problem :D
Pinion seal leak of the Salisbury rear diff in a defender

Now, the long term plan is to re-build this unit with a centre that has been maxidrive broached and make it lockable. I bought all the bits off Brian in Sarina nearly a hundred years ago and I promise it is getting higher on the list.

The leak is too annoying to ignore so I plan on fixing the leak and then worry about the locker later.

Now like usual I have given myself plenty of time to do the job! Need to drive to Cairns tomorrow arvo. I have a new pinion seal but cannot arrange any other parts. I do however have a broad selection of hammers big and small to whack stuff until it works.

This arvo I pulled the pinion nut (counting the turns) and used a puller to remove the pinion flange. It turns out the flange is already wearing a "speedi-sleeve" with a neat groove worn exactly where the seal runs!
(My issue with speedi sleeves is that they are so thin, if the original component has a groove worn, the sleeve will very quickly match the groove! Anyway I digress)

Now since this jigger needs to be sealed and spinning me south tomorrow hands up for the following options:

1/ Bung in a new seal and be done with it
2/ Remove buggered up speedi sleeve, take a light cut to smooth up the original flange on the lathe and hope a new seal will take up the difference.
3/ Original flange is in the vicinity of 47.50mmOD with plenty of meat to the splines. So I could very easily turn the flange down to say ~42.20mmOD then take a slug of 4140 (I have some 50mm round bar in the box of keep-this-bit-it-will-come-in-handy-one-day) Turn a sleeve with a bore ID to match the ~42.20mm to a tight press fit say 1 thou and use appropriate heat to fit it to the pinion flange. Then finish turn the flange to an appropriate OD for the new sleeve. Obviously this is likely the best idea. The current speedi-sleeve in an unworn section measures 48.15mm. Is this a good OD to aim for?

Anyway ramble off

S

[Mick_Marsh]

I've had two done over the years.
Get a seal with two lips.

I'd bung on another speedie sleeve. If you do, post up the part number of the speedie sleeve.

[roverrescue]

thanks Mick

Seal I have in my hand has two lips
larger lip is 55.65mm in ID and sits 10.5mm in from seating lip
smaller lip is 48.50mm in ID and sits 6.50mm in from seating lip

Aint no speedi-sleeves in this village so I cant do that

please choose from my three options!!!!

S

[Bearman]

Steve, give it a clean up on the lathe and put a speedi sleeve on it with loctite underneath. Or use one of the new type flanges with the larger mudshield and you should never have to do it again- hopefully:D

[Ancient Mariner]

Give the pinion a polish in the lathe pull the spring from the seal unwind cut 12mm off the end screw it back together and carry some extra oil:D

Noel added a fourth

[roverrescue]

Thanks Brian,
No option for a speedi or new flange - but that might be a good option for a better fix

Noel,
I like your idea, I have previously heard of shortening a spring on a seal to improve grab on a reduced shaft.

Maybe ill try that method tomorrow

Regards
s

[Ancient Mariner]

Steve if you decide to try it 12mm might be a bit much considering the SS try 6mm and see what the resistance feels like.A cheap KP type fix

Noel

[Bearman]

Thanks Brian,
No option for a speedi or new flange - but that might be a good option for a better fix

Regards
s

I could organise to send one to you Steve.

[roverrescue]

Better start driving - last weekend I drove past Sarina with a mate in a 2012 model 110 and thought of you! but it was a good 10 hours before I got back to Cookers

This thing needs to be stitched up by lunchish tomorrow!!!!

And to add a little interest, the seal I have is what those experts like to call
"new old stock"
The gator spring is rusted, still springy but no chance of shortening it up.

Just how silly an idea (besides time) is it to make up a heat press fit sleev out of 4140 for the seal to ride on?

S

[Bearman]

Bit late I guess, but next time you need something like this give me a yell and I can organise to get it to you asap even if I have to deliver it personally - my next trip up north won't be too far away, hopefully next year, and probably will be in a 6X6 perentie:D

[roverrescue]

Beers on me Brian!
And can stop up at the shed if you need digs.

S

[Bearman]

Thanks Steve, will do. And I will bring the refreshments:D

[Ancient Mariner]

1 -1.5 tho shoudn't need heat same size as OD of SS will give you room to clean up when you do your locker .Old spring not usable?

Noel

[roverrescue]

Hmm Noel great ideas

Old spring hit the garbage but I should check that option.
Other idea is I could head down to the "golden spanner" and scrounge through their inventory of 3567 Toyota seals and find a seal with a similar ID and flip the spring off that?

If I go with a sleeve your idea of keeping it slight oversize is a win.

Would you think maybe go even tighter than 1 thou and shrink fit for certainty?

S

[Ancient Mariner]

Steve What ever floats your boat I would just make it a firm push fit with some locktite retaining compound my press fits are hit and miss these days:D

Noel

[wrinklearthur]

I haven't tried this but was told by my mate from Bruny Island, if you have a seal that has gone hard and has been disturbed, soak it in neat 'Engine Stop Leak', it should make the seal flexible enough to take up again.

Using the 'Engine Stop Leak' might be worth a try in conjunction with that idea of shortening the spring.

For mine, I grabbed a new flange from eBay UK that was up for auction for about a dollar, that let me off the hook of installing a Speedy Sleeve.
.

[roverrescue]

my press fits are hit and miss these days
Hmm if only I had read that before having a play!

All is done now and Im about to head off - so far so good leak free but a frustrating day.
I perhaps tried to be a little too tricky and spent the time making a shrink fit for the flange.
Everything turned up very nicely and was looking happy.
Flange turned to 42.45mm, 4140 sleeve to 42.00mm ID (kept OD ~50mm for the fit)

I heated the 4140 sleeve up and then went to press it on and got all but the last ~3mm before my complete lack of machining skill showed itself! She bound up good and the press stalled out.
I used 0.45mm interference, after trusting the internets that assured me 20 thou for a shrink fit.
Clearly I didnt get enough heat into the sleeve or I should have gone less interference.

Anyways, it is never moving anywhere now! I final turned the flange to 48.20mm OD same dim as the speedi-sleeve and the seal by pure dumb luck sits beautifully on my poorly fit part. The test will be how it seals with a bit of heat in sally I guess?

I have some photos but am running out the door so will load em later.

Thanks one and all - was a bit of fun and I learnt some stuff for future projects.

When I did the sleeve for the LT230 (aluminium housing) I played it safe and went slip fir with locktite product. Perhaps this would have been safer but not nearly as educational.

Oh and I believe only 376,245 cuss words were harmed in the making of this part.


Steve

[Bearman]

It's all good fun Steve. You never stop learning and hindsight is a marvellous thing. Have a good trip:)

[Blknight.aus]

Clean the pinion, heat it upmflux it well and then give it a solder paint. That will give you a lifted surface and fill the groove.

Press the new speedier sleeve on and you won't have a problem with the lip reforming as the solder will have filled in the void.

A real.handy trick for front seals on series landies.

Use a hard enough solder and thenlathe it back paloish it up.And you may not even need the speedier sleeve after you polish it.