Holden 186 Motor

[whitehillbilly64]

The Holden motor in Gilbert, 77 series 3 SWB
What is the black canister for. I think its to do with the Holden motor.
Maybe a breather of some sort.
Thanks.

whitehillbilly64

[gromit]

Part of the emission controls on a late Series III

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/10/634.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Series%203%20FFR/DSCF7192_zps24601269.jpg.html)



Colin

[jboot51]

The black canister is normally a charcol filter.
Filters the petrol fumes from the carb etc.

I could be wrong

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the replies.
Next question regarding the Ignition Coil.
I have no spark.
So with the ignition on, I had 12.5 ( same as battery ) on the + side of the coil, the wire coming from the ignition switch.
12.5 on the - side of the coil, which goes to the points. 12.5 at the points.
Using the ohms scale at its lowest, got.
Primary,
- to + 2.4
+ to - 2.4
Secondary,
+to HT, 1 on the left hand side of the screen.
- to HT, 1
The NOS coil reads the same on the primary, 2.4, and but 9.55 on the secondary. But still no spark
Do these readings seem ok for the New coil ????
I will put new points in tomorrow, and see if things improve.
What points gap would be good for the 186 motor.
The old coil read USE WITH RESTSTOR, so does the one I replaced it with, but I cannot see one inline, unless its hidden behind the dash somewhere.
Any Thoughts.
Thanks

whitehillbilly64

[jboot51]

0.5mm roughly for the points
If the engine ran before with the original coil then there must be a resistor or resistive wire in the circuit.
because your getting 12v to the coil would mean that the resistor, if it is there is still intact.
could be the condenser as well causing problems.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi Jboot,
Thanks for your comments..
Will do the condenser also.

Whitehillbilly64

[Aaron IIA]

If the coil says use with resistor, and you don't use a resistor, your points will burn out much quicker than normal.
Aaron

[mick88]

Very interesting top radiator hose on that engine!

Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
Have had the Holden 186 running real smooth at idle.
Ran a cleaner through the water system, after finding the Top hose was gunked up to the thermostat.
Where is the water temp sensor, on my 186 ????
Can you tell me the year of the motor from the serial No ????
should I replace and put back in a thermostat ????
First start up seems hard. Fuel seems to be draining back to tank from pump. Glass bowl fills during cranking, but needs a drop of fuel down carby to start. Will change the inline fuel filter tomorrow.
Any ideas on this ????
Thanks for the comments.

whitehillbilly64

[jboot51]

You need a thermostat for correct engine temp.
Your fuel problem is most likely the fuel pump not holding pressure overnight so new pump should fix.

Temp sensor I thought was on the head, it's been a long time since I have even seen a holden 6

[alan48]

Hi
I have just rebuilt a 179 that was in my series one and it too was hard to start --so now pump the acc pedal fully about 4-5 times then it starts first go, then I use the choke for a while once its started, not before, then when choke is off blip the throttle and idles nicely--was told that this was what you did years ago with these motors in Holdens.

[mick88]

You should pull the choke out before you start it, then give the throttle a pump and then a touch of throttle when you turn the key.
It should fire up instantly!

Cheers, Mick.

[mick88]

Hi,
Have had the Holden 186 running real smooth at idle.
Ran a cleaner through the water system, after finding the Top hose was gunked up to the thermostat.
Where is the water temp sensor, on my 186 ????
Can you tell me the year of the motor from the serial No ????
should I replace and put back in a thermostat ????
First start up seems hard. Fuel seems to be draining back to tank from pump. Glass bowl fills during cranking, but needs a drop of fuel down carby to start. Will change the inline fuel filter tomorrow.
Any ideas on this ????
Thanks for the comments.

whitehillbilly64


Temp light sensor will either be on top of the head just back from the carby a bit or it may have been screwed into the housing just below the top hose.
As for the fuel draining back you just need to put a kit through the fuel pump as the valves in it are leaking. You also may have a leak in the plug on the bottom of the carby that is causing the bowl to empty overnight, thus making it hard to start your engine. A kit through the carby and one through the fuel pump and it should be good as gold!

Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for all the replies,
A few Technical Questions.
I found the water temp sensor at the rear of the block behind the carby, with a spring like wire, leading to a gauge, to the left of the dash panel.
With the cleaning and thermostat, I have 90/92 oC, at fast idle for 15 mins. Creeps up a bit at idle.

Coil question again. Resister :confused::confused::confused::confused:
Written on the old coil was ' 12v use with resistor ' It did not work, so got one which read the same.
With Gilbert running at idle, I have 13.5 at the battery. Alternator Working :D
With ignition on, motor not running, I have 12v positive, 12v negative, but running at idle, I have 14v ???? at the positive side of the coil. 8.5 at the negative side.
Does this voltage mean there is a resistor fitted somewhere, or do I need to change the coil to non resistor type ????
Also where is the oil pressure gauge and sensor located ????

whitehillbilly64

[jboot51]

oil pressure switch is just above the oil pump/filter


as for the resistor,
with the ignition on, short the - terminal of the coil to ground and measure the voltage at the + side of the coil.
only short it out for a few seconds, coil may get warm


if you get 12v at the + then there is no resistor.


if you get ~9v at the + then there is a resistor.


That's the only way I can think of checking.

[Aaron IIA]

A resistor will be cheaper than a coil.
Aaron

[JDNSW]

Do as jboot suggests. Using a coil designed for a resistor without one will work until the coil burns out or the points burn out, both of which are likely to happen fairly soon.

Note that if fitted, resistors are not necessarily obvious - some of them were simply a resistive wire.

Coils with resistors are a legacy of the US practice of sticking with 6v electrics long after (almost) everyone else had gone to 12v, and were introduced to provide an adequate starting spark while the voltage was very low when cranking.

Correctly installed, the coil resistor is shorted by special contacts in either the ignition switch or the solenoid, so as to allow full battery voltage at the coil while cranking. Since the Landrover does not use a resistor, unless very special care has been taken in the conversion, this special circuitry does not exist, so there is no advantage in using a 'resistor' coil, even with a resistor.

The Holden engines usually fitted to Landrovers had a twelve volt electrical system, so the only reason for fitting the resistor system to the engine was to allow the use of a smaller battery, although I suspect that the real reason was simply "we've always done it that way".

John

[Bigbjorn]

The EH Holden had a resistor in the harness. In Showroom Stock road racing in the 60's we used a six volt coil. Twelve volts at the coil when starting and nine volts running. Never had a problem with coils or points. I continued this practice on road going cars for years. My Blackhawk ignition analyser showed a definite improvement in high tension voltage at the plugs.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for all the replies.
The Coil, using jboots suggestion, showed 11.57 volts, on the Positive side of the coil, earthing out the negative side with ignition on.
From what has been said, and seeing the ' use with resister ' 12v coil, is on loan, to buy if it worked out, the easiest solution I think will just be to get a none resister type and fit it, as they are around $35 from the local auto store.
The resister type might have been pulled out of something lying around, at the time, and was put in without checking it out.

I also found the oil pressure sensor.
What type of gauge was used ???? It looks as if a wire with spade connector was used, on the sensor pin.
Would the wire have just plugged into the Gauge.

whitehillbilly64

[mick88]

Usually just an warning oil light on most models.

Cheers, Mick.


Thanks for all the replies.
The Coil, using jboots suggestion, showed 11.57 volts, on the Positive side of the coil, earthing out the negative side with ignition on.
From what has been said, and seeing the ' use with resister ' 12v coil, is on loan, to buy if it worked out, the easiest solution I think will just be to get a none resister type and fit it, as they are around $35 from the local auto store.
The resister type might have been pulled out of something lying around, at the time, and was put in without checking it out.

I also found the oil pressure sensor.
What type of gauge was used ???? It looks as if a wire with spade connector was used, on the sensor pin.
Would the wire have just plugged into the Gauge.

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
scraped some paint, and found the motor serial no, 186P440*** which with the help of a Holden site put it in a HK ( 68/69 )
Also found the Carby no as 23-202B which made it a American made, Twin Barrel W model, Stromberg.
Where would be the cheapest place to get a Carby kit for one of these ????
Also, the best place for a fuel pump Kit, for the 186 ????
Thanks for any replies.

whitehillbilly64

[Timj]

That carby is a standard Holden part though I think it was on later motors than that so those sort of kits can be bought from any of the usual suspects, Repco, Autobarn or whatever local parts place you have. Make a couple of phone calls and find the best price. I don't know if it would be worth calling a holden dealer, I have never bothered. Same goes for the fuel pump but perhaps take the chance to replace it with an electric one.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[mick88]

Bursons (if you have them up there), Repco, Rare Spares would be good for the parts you need. If not your Holden dealer should be able to supple them.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Auto barn has Castrol 15w/50 for $12 at the moment,
combined with a Z30 oil filter, would this be ok for the 186P motor.
Super Cheap has Castrol 20w/50 for about the same.
Which oil would be better ????
Thanks

whitehillbilly64

[JDNSW]

Auto barn has Castrol 15w/50 for $12 at the moment,
combined with a Z30 oil filter, would this be ok for the 186P motor.
Super Cheap has Castrol 20w/50 for about the same.
Which oil would be better ????
Thanks

whitehillbilly64

Summer coming on, and where you live, the 20W/50, but in reality there is little to choose.

John

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks John,
Is the filler cap a washable item, as it seems to have some kind of gauze mesh inside it ????

whitehillbilly64

[Homestar]

Yep, rinse it out with turps or thinners.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the replies.

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi all followers,
Quick update on the 186 motor.
Found a small wear mark on the rubber fuel line.
It was under the battery, and only noticed it when changing the inline fuel filter. The rubber pipe looked damp, so I cut the piece out, finding a small pin hole inside.
On doing this, my fuel pump stays full of fuel and doesn't drain back to the tank, any more.
The rubber fuel line is quite hard, so bought some new pipe. will replace it over the weekend, right to the fuel tank.
Had a look at the WW11 carby top, as it seems a bit damp. on of the top screws has done its thread. I have a tap and bolts so may take it out to the next size. It the one at the front of the carby, near the front LH guard.
A longer bolt, with a nut on it may also work. as it passes through.
Is this a common problem ????

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Like to nominate myself,
Dumb Ass of the week.
Spent quite a few weeks looking for the correct Air Cleaner base plate, the top has 186s on it, the Stromberg WW11 has a fixing bolt on the carby.
Surfed the web, ebay, gumtree and called into 3 of my local wreaking yards. Online prices to expensive, no go with the wreakers, even after a call out, on the Hot Line.
The Base plate I have, fowls the choke butterfly, and looking at the scratches has done so, long before I got it.
I looked to see if I could hammer a small dent, so the choke could operate correctly, and the looked at the design of the base plate.
DAof the W. :bangin:
someone before me had been running the plate upside down.
Flipped it over, and even the new round air filter sits nicely, in a little recess.

whitehillbilly64

[Phil B]

At least it didn't cost much
You would have really kicked yourself if you had paid for a new one!
Phil

[mick88]

Is your motor fitted with a two barrel carby from a 186S ????


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi Mick,
Yes, it has the WW11 twin barrel fitted
23-202B is the plate on the carby.
Will this be a problem ????

whitehillbilly64
.

[mick88]

No not a problem at all.
Should improve performance.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
Any ideas what this relay set up, may have been used for ????
There is another one, on the radiator.
Maybe ready to use for ????
Thanks

whitehillbillies

[Phil B]

Could be a mod for hi/lo headlights, 2 relays per side, one for hi, one for low each side.
do they click when you go from hi to lo with the lights on?
The one on the rad is probably for spot lights.
Phil.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi Phil,
They are not connected to anything.
Earths are all joined together, and what I suspect to be Two Live feeds, which should be connected to the battery.
Then what ever, connected to the relays.

whitehillbilly

[Phil B]

Maybe the PO was going to do the head light relay conversion.
Must have been a mod though because AFAIK the S3 only has one relay and thats for the indicators.
Phil.

[Hoges]

Just came across this thread... FWIW: if you are still in the hunt for carby replacement parts, the Carburettor Service Company (CSC) in Parramatta Rd Burwood (NSW) has a good supply of hard to get bits (usually). My BIL recently mentioned them favourably in regard to a Holden EJ he is restoring ...

[d2dave]

If you want to use the resister coil get yourself a resister. Then get a relay that is energized by your starting circuit and run battery voltage through the relay to the coil.

This will give you a strong spark for starting.

As for point gap, get yourself a dwell meter. Much more accurate than feeler gauges.

Set between 30 to 35 degrees and make sure that every time you change your point gap you must reset your ignition timing.

[mick88]

Bosch HEI distributor is a good option.
No ignition points to put up with.


Cheers, Mick.

[d2dave]

Bosch HEI distributor is a good option.
No ignition points to put up with.


Cheers, Mick.

I will second that. In my RR Classic I put a modified V8 Holden electronic dizzy in it. Best thing I ever did.

No maintenance needed and you can throw away your timing light.

[whitehillbilly64]

Well Gilbert is running quite well, even pulled 2nd/high up my driveway, with its Holden 186 motor, and a WW11 inlet manifold and carby, and air cleaner, which says 186S on the air cleaner top cover.
Timing was way out.
I was looking at putting a 2.250 motor back in, but I think to many changes have been made to fit it.
What are your thoughts.
Both motors will need to be looked at.
The more I look at the conversion done, the more I think It was done with keeping the 88 in mind.
The motor may have been worked on, I might just need a hone and a new set of rings and bearing. Compression around 100 psi when warm.
I have bought another series 3 radiator, in excellent condition, which just came of a V8, for $30. I believe the held more water, than the Holden ones, and worked a bit better.
What fan upgrade can I do from the original 4 blade one, that will bolt straight on.
I don't think there is enough room for an electric one ????
Still needs a carby kit for the Stromberg WW11. ( best price ???? )
Fuel pump seems to drain back after week or two of standing..
Took it apart. I think a kit was put through it , as valves seem still a bright brass colour.
plunger had stuck, so was only half pumping. ( where to get a kit from ???? )
Can I tell what sort of conversion kit was put in for the Holden 186 motor ????
I cannot get onto the Johnson conversion link ????
The gear lever seem 1/2 inch rearward on the hole, on the tunnel plate.
How can I tell if the gearbox has been moved back ????
I will post a pick, now I'm back online.

Thanks for the replies.

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Still learning the cold, first, start up routine for Gilbert. ( Holden 186 )
Hard to start, fist up, but fires up first click, any time, for the rest of the day. :confused:
What does everyone else do.
Not sure if the choke is working correct, on the WW11 carby.
Should I change to a manual choke ????
Thanks for your comments.

whitehillbilly64

[Seriestwo]

I went down the webber carbie path, as it doesn't have the starve issues when inclined that a strommie has. It also has an electric auto choke so it makes starting a breeze.

Most conversions I have heard of have left the gearbox in it's original space as you would then need to modify the front and rear drive shafts and make up new mounts, seems like a lot of effort to go to when there were plenty of adaptor kits available that bolted straight up to the gearbox in situ. Your "stick" is just probably bent.

As for the fan, you can always mount an electric fan on the front of the radiator,, I have seen this a few times.

I would spend the money and upgrade to an electric fuel pump, the manual ones are pretty old these days and not so reliable. An electric carter low pressure one I purchased was around the $130 mark.

Chris

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the reply Chris.
What plugs are you guys running on your 186 motor ???
I always use NGK.

whitehillbilly64

[mick88]

The reason your gearbox appears to be set back 1/2 an inch is because the conversion engine mounts will have the Holden engine raised at the front to keep the carburettor level. In Holden cars the motor was tilted back to keep the drive train in alignment and prop shaft universal joints running straight. Consequently the inlet manifold was off set to keep the carby vertical. If you look through the large hole in the front of your cross member you will see that the crankshaft is not aligned with the centre of this hole. Land rover engines were pretty well central with this for cranking the engine and also fitment of mechanical engine driven winches.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the reply Mick.
The front cross member has been cut out and a tinner one fitted, to allow for more room I guess. So no hole.
That is why the bell housing at the top appear so close to the bulkhead !!

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Would my Holden Conversion,
run a Holden or Landrover clutch and plate assembly ????
Thanks for the replies.

whitehillbilly64

[mick88]

Assuming it has the Holden flywheel which is the most common conversion, possibly a Holden pressure plate with a Land Rover 9" clutch plate. Alternatively the flywheel may have been drilled to take the 9" Land Rover pressure plate. A Holden flywheel could possibly be drilled to accept a Land Rover 9 1/2" pressure plate but it would be a tight fit as the Holden flywheel diameter is just a smidge larger than the PCD of the bolt pattern on the pressure plate.
You will never really know until you pull it down and investigate.

Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the reply Mick.
The 2 1/4 Landrover motor rebuild is on its way.
So the Holden motor will probable come out, and everything put back to standard.
Thanks again.

whitehillbilly64

[whitehillbilly64]

Just wondering if the new starter motor in the Holden conversion,
Is a Holden or Landrover type ????
are they interchangeable ????
Thanks

whitehillbilly64

[Homestar]

As Mick said, usually a Holden flywheel, and if it is, then it will be a Holden starter.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks.

whiteillbilly64