Air Conditioning not working, help required..........

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
OK, situation warm............... I press the auto air con button, the fan(s) activate, warm / hot air comes out of all the vents, temp setting on minimum, both of them.

Couldn't hear the compressor kick in or the engine load up, check fuse 51, all good. Think something along the lines of not enough gas possibly to kick the air con system in.

Call in air con specialist.............not to familiar with the LR system, checked the status of the gas 90 psi should be enough to make the system work. We have now both gone away to do some research, if I hook my Faultmate up will this tell me the problem? For once I have a problem that hasn't resulted in a plethora of fault lights. Thank goodness.

So anyone any ideas, what is my next step forward, some little relay tucked away somewhere that only a small child can reach maybe?

Thanks for any assistance rendered as usual.

[Nomad9]

Hi there,

I have taken some readings from my Faultmate, does this help anyone diagnose the fault, I have a feeling it isn't a fuse.....

The main fault data didn't attach I'll try a different approach tomorrow. Mentions about a stepper motor............any clues?

[LandyAndy]

Cant help with aircon issues.Does your faultmate work on the MY14 D4???? Im looking for a replacement for my Nannocom,it paid for itself over and over with the D2 and TD5 Defender.Then again I have 5 years until it isnt LRAs problem.Still,I will be looking for a diagnostics setup before I go traveling in the next year or 2;););)
Cheers
Andrew

[Nomad9]

Hi Andy,
If you check the Blackbox web page (Cyprus) that will tell you what you need to buy, I have checked and the web page shows D4 software. I haven't got my hands on a D4 as yet.

[Epic pooh]

I've had stepper motor faults from a stuck blend door.

I have no idea what is causing your issue but - from memory there are at least three fusible links involved in the operation of the ac (2 under bonnet and one under dash maybe) and a whole pile of other over complicated stuff too.

Do your blend doors operate (can you send air up down etc) ? Does hitting recirc do anything ? When did it work last ?

I've got the hvac manual sections if you want me to she them to you ?

Out of interest does your car fart when you press recirc ? If it does normally, is it still doing it now ?

[Graeme]

Is one of the compressor pipes cool and the other hot or are they both warm? Both warm indicates that the compressor is not pumping.

Is the compressor turning? If the V6's compressor is similar to the 2.7's where the compressor always turns but the pulley drive is sacrificial if the compressor siezes, is the pulley spinning on the shaft? If the compressor has a clutch, is the clutch engaging?

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
I have a lot of things to check from the last two posts, however I will try and attach the Faultmate codes, the system has eight untested fault codes. These are hard faults and won't reset.

Both the pipes are warm on the compressor, with the air con on, the air con guy confirmed the compressor was doing nothing, as for parts turning I haven't had a look, I do know that the engine "load note" didn't change from when the air con was off to on. The fart noise, I know the one you are talking about, I'll check tonight.

If you get to see this the bottom fault is the one of most interest. I think they have attached this time round.

Again thanks for assistance rendered.

[Graeme]

Not tested codes are only a list of possible faults that haven't occurred, so ignore the lot.

I can't decipher the display even by saving the picture, enlarging it and attempting to adjust contrast etc.

I would inspect the compressor shaft with the a/c switched on and engine running to see if its turning. Is there a clutch as part of the pulley, with 1 or 2 wires going into the front of the compressor?

[Epic pooh]

I think if the compressor is not running/working you can ignore my remarks. Have you checked all the related fusible links under bonnet and under dash ?

[Nomad9]

Hi Graeme,
I've now zoomed in and made the file a .pdf format, that should allow you to play around a bit. The tested scan told me no faults, so I went to the untested scan, thanks for clearing that up. Also thanks for having a look. Got me a bit stumped this one. The temp control says 20 degrees C, I'm sure the temp ws set to minimum, something else to check now I have opened up te file again.

Fuesable links, I've checked the one in the passengers bay (51), there are more in the engine bay............. I'll have another look tonight I didn't think there were any more.

[Nomad9]

Hi Epic,
I've found the one under the dash, passengers side (51), I can't find the one under the bonnet in the battery compartment fuses, do you know which one it is? I haven't got the rear air, that was the only one I could find in the bonnet fuses.

[Graeme]

I've now zoomed in and made the file a .pdf format, that should allow you to play around a bit.Thanks, I can read it now but it only infers that the system isn't cooling, which you already know.

I would be taking it to someone who knows a/c systems, preferably in a D3, to check the compressor including its clutch if it has one, any high/low pressure switches, the TX valve operation and the thermostat if it has one. My tractor's a/c stopped working seemingly abruptly but as it hadn't been touched in the 8 years of my ownership I expected the cause to be at least low on gas and possibly needing a new compressor so didn't check anything. It was only a failed thermostat - I could have determined that myself but thought it not worth even starting to look as I couldn't check the system pressure. The point is that an experienced a/c technician should find the cause.

[Nomad9]

Hi Graeme,
I have admitted defeat on this one, especially being air con, I'm at the point I suspect the compressor, feeling the joy right now, however getting the air con compressor off the petrol engine is a damn site easier than the diesel engine, I don't have to remove the diff to get it out.

I hooked up the Faultmate again and no faults on the tested scan. I was able to operate all the flaps via my computer with no problem, plus the fan speed, plus I got to witness the "fart" noise described in a earlier post.
Finding someone familiar with the D3 air con system is a bit of a challenge, I'm taking my D3 into Southerns the local LR agent to ask them to further diagnose, not fix so I know what I am up for, as you say could be something real simple, somehow I doubt it. I was hoping a fuse, yea right........!!!!
Thank you and everybody else for your assistance, I'll feedback what I find out on Friday afternoon.

[Epic pooh]

My experience is in diagnosing the internal parts of the HVAC - so compressor knowledge is not so much - in my car 12E and 17E fusible links are related to HVAC. But as Graeme has said, if it's not cooling, the problem is likely to be the clutch pulley or as you say the compressor itself.

Here's two files that might help (or at least give you some light reading on the complexity of the system), the A/C details from Topix for a V6 and the HVAC control components section.

Good luck and let us know how you go !

[Graeme]

I see that the compressor does not have a clutch, rather a solenoid that varies the compressor's displacement so that virtualy no pumping occurs. I've noted that the same style of compressor is fitted to the 2.7 and that quite a few have sheared the pulley drive due to the compressor having siezed. You should be able to confirm whether the pulley is rigid on the shaft or not.

Presumably you have confirmed that the economy switch isn't stuck on.

Edit: I note that the not-tested codes don't include any plausibility faults such as the system isn't cooling when expected.

[gossamer]

My AC hasn't worked since i had the heads done, i know they removed some of the aircon parts to do the job but they were suppose to regas. Given i feel they ripped me off on other things i don't believe they regassed so mine is getting regassed on Thur. Be interested to see if its simply empty or has a leak or maybe some other issue. BTW it worked really well before they worked on it.

[Nomad9]

Hi Mick,
Starting to troll through the files you posted I wonder if the ambient air temperature sensor has dual functionality, the dash display and the air con system, I have noticed that recently the ambient air temperature has been moving a round a bit, one morning on the way to work the temp went down to about 4 degrees and the ice warning beeper sounded, I was wearing a T shirt so it wan't four degrees..............I wonder............. I can check that with mu faultmate......interesting.

[Epic pooh]

Good luck and let us know how you go !

[Markk]

Hi

I am following these posts with interest. I have the same problem with my 2008 model D3. Like you I have checked all the usual stuff, I've got the TDV6 so haven't quite got to the stage of pulling the AC compressor out. I may have got on to someone who is prepared to have a look at mine so if they are successful I will let you know what they found. It may be of use, unfortunately I cant get to this guy before next week.

Cheers

[Nomad9]

Hi Mark,
I'm at LR on Friday afternoon I'll post their findings if I can still afford the power to turn the computer on again. With the V6 diesel you have to either move or remove the front diff to get the air compressor off the engine, apparently it is a pig of a job, sorry to be the bringer of good tidings I am finding so many good reasons, (yes ones I didn't even know about) I bought the V6 petrol apart from it being cheaper to buy at the onset.

[gossamer]

Well that sucked :mad: I had mine regassed today and he is telling me i need a new compressor. At idle the pump is barely moving the gas around and with the engine revs up it's better. I took it for a drive and it seems coldish but i can tell on a hot day its not going to cut it.

[gossamer]

Grasping at straws here, since the A/C guy said my compressor isnt work properly could this be a symptom of the evaporator temp sensor being dirty of buggered??? and not telling the compressor to fire up properly.
I have a can of air flow meter spray if i could find the sensor would i clean it with that?

[Nomad9]

Hi Mick,
So went to Southerns, the young guy there who is great checked over the system couldn't find any leaks, however washing the engine bay does wash away and residue left behind when the system leaks, something I didn't know.

The system had a vacuum check for twice as long as normal and nothing was revealed, however when purging the system he did comment that there was next to no gas in the system, not enough to allow the compressor to activate anyway, so the theory about having enough gas is a reality, if the system doesn't have enough it will not work.

Maybe the air con gent who came to the house had residual pressure in is lines, the gauge when I looked at it today showed very little. The gas that has been put in now has a dye in it that can be seen with a black light torch, makes it easier to find the leak, if there is one.

So end of this little tale, air con is working, no leaks, looks like the gas level was just to low to initiate the compressor, have to see how it goes from now. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.

[LandyAndy]

The cheapest way to maintain an aircon is to run it.Even if it means setting the climate control higher than need be.Those who turn the AC off to save fuel are wasting money in the long term as AC work is more expensive than fuel used due to seals drying out and allowing the gas to escape.
Andrew

[Graeme]

As this compressor doesn't have a clutch it is always running so no need to remember to look after the seals.

[Epic pooh]

I wonder where the gas went ... very mysterious ... reminds me I should get mine regassed to see if it makes the compressor quieter.

[Nomad9]

Hi Mick,
The assumptions were that either:

The guy didn't use the air con and therefore never noticed, hard to imagine with a black car.
A very small leak over a long period of time, and again never noticed the drop off in performance.
The compressor seal separated and re-seated........a long shot

[Epic pooh]

Will be interested to see which of those if any turns out to be the case. Good luck !

Out of interest, what did they charge to diagnose and regas ?

[Nomad9]

Hi Mick,
$230

[LandyAndy]

That sounds pretty good.
It may have a slight leak in the condensor from a gravel stone or stress crack.
If you have a UV light you will be able to keep an eye on that,the dye they put in shows up under UV light;);););)
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[Nomad9]

Hi Andrew,
I ordered one off Fleabay yesterday, now awaiting the arrival of said blacklight.

[Epic pooh]

Thanks for the info Marty - sounds like money well spent !

[Graeme]

The compressor seal separated and re-seated........a long shotMore likely the compressor seal isn't 100% and leaks slowly when its running. Seal kits are available for some compressors but if you can't fit the kit yourself then the fitting cost plus regassing an old compressor often isn't worth it.

[gossamer]

Just ordered a new A/C compressor from the states $296 usd delivered which i though was pretty good. I managed to get a part number from the existing compressor so it should be the right one.
A C Compressor 7SEU17C Compressor Assembly UAC Fits 05 08 Land Rover LR3 4 4L V8 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221529710046'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

I have had a good look and it looks like if i remove the power steering pump and inner guard liner i should be able to swap it over without too many hassles

[Epic pooh]

Thats a reasonable price - how did you work out the compressor is stuffed ?

Let us know how fitting goes and if the supplier is any good ... subject to the success or otherwise of regassing I might need a new one at some point too :mad:

[gossamer]

Thats a reasonable price - how did you work out the compressor is stuffed ?

Let us know how fitting goes and if the supplier is any good ... subject to the success or otherwise of regassing I might need a new one at some point too :mad:

i had it regassed and the guy who regassed it said the compressor was stuffed???????? he said it would barely circulate the gas at idle and was only slightly better at revs.

[Epic pooh]

Thanks ! Hope the ex-US part does the trick for you and will be interested to hear what you think of quality of the compressor and supplier. That's a heck of a lot cheaper than anything I've seen here or ex-uk !

[gossamer]

Just ordered a new A/C compressor from the states $296 usd delivered which i though was pretty good. I managed to get a part number from the existing compressor so it should be the right one.
A C Compressor 7SEU17C Compressor Assembly UAC Fits 05 08 Land Rover LR3 4 4L V8 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221529710046'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

I have had a good look and it looks like if i remove the power steering pump and inner guard liner i should be able to swap it over without too many hassles

My NEW A/C compressor turned up today, Yep the brand name is "NEW" and its made in China as apposed to the factory Denso made in Japan. It looks fine but since ordering this my A/C seems to have come goodish, sometimes if it wont come on i have to turn it off and on again and it seems to work ok while its on. Looks like ill be googleing "NEW" A/C compressors to see if i have wasted my money or not and if its worth fitting given mine is working ish.

[gossamer]

Just found this video on utube and this guy says they are Sanden so ill take his word that they are good. I found my box actually says SSB on the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtE76BrGCU
and the company
?????????????? (http://www.ssb.com.cn/about/about_en.asp)

[Ean Austral]

You can usually check for leaks yourself, a squirty bottle with soapy water spray it on any joins, fittings etc on the aircon lines that run around the engine bay, the soapier the better, you want enough for the leaking pressure to make the soapy water bubble. Another tell tale sign is an oily type stain, gas usually carries oil with it so if you see an oily stain that looks more like cooking oil than engine oil, chances are your leak is around there.


I haven't looked but is there a sight glass on the system?




Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

Just found this video on utube and this guy says they are Sanden so ill take his word that they are good. I found my box actually says SSB on the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtE76BrGCU
and the company
?????????????? (http://www.ssb.com.cn/about/about_en.asp)
SSB is a joint venture between Sanden and a Chinese manufacturer. I have one of their compressors in my truck.

[josh.huber]

I do aircon on trucks for $$$ these days and leaks can be a bitch to find and expensive you can spend hours. I always vac down, then nitrogen pressure test a AC system, you will find systems that will hold one not the other. I did a truck today held pressure and won't hold vac, compressor seal nearly every time. Vac leaks pressure leaks dye leaks soapy water leaks can be very time consuming to find. if the AC techs don't have the right gear. Don't go anywhere that doesn't nitro test

[josh.huber]

A car like a disco will have a thermistor, not a thermostat on the evaporator,( in the cab ) pull it out of the evaporator and heat it up in your hand, if AC comes back on replace it. Very unlikely thou electronics are very good in HVAC. The thermistor won't be able to be bypassed by shorting wires either. Variable non clutch compressors are painful also it's likely the system doesn't use a conventional high low switch but a pressure sender so it can keep the head pressures down and reduce engine load. A lot of euro cars are very sensitive to pressures I got caught doing an Audi once put 650 gram in a 600 gram system and it shut straight down.

[MDJ]

Experiencing poor/intermittent cooling from A/c and am particularly interested in any experiences with a failed refrigerant pressure sensor.
2010 D4 3.0ltr with 160,000km, rear air
Air con cooling poor/intermittent recently.
Non LR specialist with more generic scan tool reported fluctuating system pressures potentially pointing to a/c compressor fault, perhaps just low gas. Called in external a/c specialist who hooked up to low and high pressure ports and diagnosed compressor fault due to pressure differences. Didn't do any further work evacuating and recharging the system so didn't assess gas level - was confident it was compressor fault (kindly no charge)
Decided to get a second opinion from local LR indy specialist (autologic scan tool) before outlaying the big $. They did system evac and recharge, down about 300gr gas apparently. Reported continued pressure irregularities after recharge, advised new compressor required.
Regas resulted in perhaps a little colder when blowing cool air. Compressor is engaging when a/c switched on, low pressure line is cold, vent temps can feel close to "normal" but not consistently...just unreliable/intermittent.
About to bite the bullet when read the workshop manual and learned about the refrigerant pressure sensor. Neither repairer has been particularly interested in the oily dirt build up on the high pressure line on both sides of the pressure sensor and surrounds - a closer look indicates this is definitely the source
Workshop manual lists "refrigerant pressure sensor fault" as a possible cause of "poor or no cooling"
Anyone had a similar experience?
Is it just a leak or a symptom of a failed sensor?
Can I isolate a sensor fault as source of irregular pressures? I don't have a scan tool.
Can I change the sensor without evac of system?
Sensor is about $A100, local quotes start at $A1500 plus labour for new compressor....and I still have an obvious leak from the sensor that needs addressing anyway.
Currently thinking its worth changing out the sensor even if requires system vac and recharge.
Any further thoughts and help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Globetrotter]

Just found this video on utube and this guy says they are Sanden so ill take his word that they are good. I found my box actually says SSB on the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtE76BrGCU
and the company
?????????????? (http://www.ssb.com.cn/about/about_en.asp)

Sanden are good japanese company who have made vehicle aircons for a while. they also make hot water heat pump systems that is like a "reverse" aircon

[northiam]

Experiencing poor/intermittent cooling from A/c and am particularly interested in any experiences with a failed refrigerant pressure sensor.
2010 D4 3.0ltr with 160,000km, rear air
Air con cooling poor/intermittent recently.
Non LR specialist with more generic scan tool reported fluctuating system pressures potentially pointing to a/c compressor fault, perhaps just low gas. Called in external a/c specialist who hooked up to low and high pressure ports and diagnosed compressor fault due to pressure differences. Didn't do any further work evacuating and recharging the system so didn't assess gas level - was confident it was compressor fault (kindly no charge)
Decided to get a second opinion from local LR indy specialist (autologic scan tool) before outlaying the big $. They did system evac and recharge, down about 300gr gas apparently. Reported continued pressure irregularities after recharge, advised new compressor required.
Regas resulted in perhaps a little colder when blowing cool air. Compressor is engaging when a/c switched on, low pressure line is cold, vent temps can feel close to "normal" but not consistently...just unreliable/intermittent.
About to bite the bullet when read the workshop manual and learned about the refrigerant pressure sensor. Neither repairer has been particularly interested in the oily dirt build up on the high pressure line on both sides of the pressure sensor and surrounds - a closer look indicates this is definitely the source
Workshop manual lists "refrigerant pressure sensor fault" as a possible cause of "poor or no cooling"
Anyone had a similar experience?
Is it just a leak or a symptom of a failed sensor?
Can I isolate a sensor fault as source of irregular pressures? I don't have a scan tool.
Can I change the sensor without evac of system?
Sensor is about $A100, local quotes start at $A1500 plus labour for new compressor....and I still have an obvious leak from the sensor that needs addressing anyway.
Currently thinking its worth changing out the sensor even if requires system vac and recharge.
Any further thoughts and help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Sounds like your repairers are guessing it has to be the compressor!

The oily buildup on the pressure transducer is normally a indication of a leak yes!

The fact it starts cooling then works intermintently does not sound like a compressor fault.

Take it to a LR indy with scan tool

No replacing sensor without evac and recharge.

[PerthDisco]

A while back @landyandy talked about a part / sensor in the AC system that his brother in law replaced fixing the poor AC problem. Was diagnosed by a specialist shop in Perth.

[DiscoJeffster]

A while back @landyandy talked about a part / sensor in the AC system that his brother in law replaced fixing the poor AC problem. Was diagnosed by a specialist shop in Perth.

Yes it’s the variable displacement sensor on the compressor. Costs around $350 to replace. My aircon has done the same thing. Take a few minutes to start cooling and when it is, it’s not that cool. I’m going to get the displacement valve replaced and see how long it lasts.

[MDJ]

Thanks, found the repair kit.

Do you know if this can this be changed without removing the compressor? Presume it requires a system evacuation.

What sort of mileage are people getting from the a/c compressor before bearings start to fail?

Cheers