Long term cost of ownership :Discover 4 vs Prado

[discolandinaus]

I am new to this forum. I have spend quite a lot of time in this forum and I found it very useful. Thanks to all. Recently me and my wife decided that that we need to look for an SUV. We test drove both the Prado and Discovery 4 and the interior, drive comfort of the disco is exceptional. Also I could felt that disco was very quiet as compared to Prado.

1) Everything looks perfect in the disco and I was more inclined towards a used disco 4 till I found an advertisement in carsales of a used discovery 4 where the owner has mentioned that he had a recent service with some replacement which costed him 3000k for a vehicle which has run less than 50k. I know that there are a couple of service locations for D4 in Melbourne other than authorised ones. Can somebody put some lights on how much they cost for the major and minor service (A, B C service.). The landrover guy told me that their service cost around $850.

2) I would like to know how much I would require to maintain the discovery 4, i mean other than normal service? What are the things which requires replacement(Example in prado it is said that the fuel injector has to be replaced)


3) For 50k, I have seen a couple of advertisements of 2009 to 2011 model Discovery 4 with around 70 to 100,000km. My question is what kind of maintaince can I expect from this kind of vehicle and how much does it cost.



Thanks!

[nat_89]

Welcome to the forum and your dead right they are an awesome car and far superior to a Prado (i came from a 150 Prado). Now as for servicing cant help you to much there as mine is under the corporate program which is free servicing but i believe at LR its about $530 a service.

Now that seems rich but put it in perspective, the D4s get serviced every 25000kms thats 2.5 times more than a Prado so your servicing costs will be relatively close when you take that into account.

As you've probably read they are a great vehicle and have minimal problems although the brake switch does give some trouble with age but if your half mechanical I'm sure you will probably be able to fix the odd issue or two that arise.

Ive only had my new D4 for 10 months and 30000kms so i cant comment on the long term issues but just from reading on this forum they appear to be super reliable and really a great car.

As everyone says they just give you a grin from ear to ear each drive they are an amazing car and you won't be disappointed.

[discolandinaus]

Thanks for your response. Yes Toyota needs servicing every 10k. I also read about corporate plans in the forum. However, my budget is $50 to max $55k. I believe the new discovery 4 will cost around $79k. I was told that demo vehicle is available for $72k.

$500 service is fine, however I am just worried with the ongoing cost of a used disco which has run around 50 to 80k km.

Thanks again.

[coolum]

Put into perspective - Costs running any SUV are all relative (from one brand to another) and when buying second hand you are purchasing some level of maintenance. The $$ difference between brands at the SUV level really boils down to the same - expensive.


Big tyres, big batteries, gallons of oil, buckets of fuel when compared to a prius. So it then boils down to 'a lot', or 'a bit more' for what I want.


Depreciation alone is significant and you'll probably loose more in resale than it costs to run anyway ...assuming you don't have a major engine or box failure in the meantime.


Now that you've driven a D4, imagine buying a Prado and every time you see a D4 drive past you'll be thinking how much more that lucky person is enjoying the trip.


Its OK for those who don't know the difference - they console themselves with a 'brand war slogan' in one form or another.


Every mile you travel in a D3 D4, on road or off, you'll know it doesn't get any better than this - Apart from maybe a FFRR.


But you are lucky you can choose.

[RobA]

A very interesting discussion for me given we have ordered our first D4 and will be selling one of our 150 Prado along the way. As a tour operator and 4WD trainer and owner of an off-road camper trailer that we tow all over Australia the choice has been easy and challenging.

In the first instance I don't think it's fair to compare a D4 to a Prado, more appropriate to put it alongside an LC200. It will always depend on personal needs but for us we found the Prado underpowered when towing, albeit a chip fixed that but then there is that cost amongst others. So D4 with better finish, performance and comfort on and off-road at a lower price than a LC200 made it an easy choice in that sense.

Yes there are special items in a D4 such as the jesus box that keeps all four legs of the air suspension operating correctly. But that gets replaced at around 70000km I think and is around $1500 or thereabouts. But Prado and LC200 in some models also have air suspension on the rear and that requires a similar maintenance regime

So I am not bagging the Prado we have operated Toyota 4WD for 20 years and will continue to do so but I have to say I am really looking forward to the D4 arriving as my early Christmas present

I hope this commentary helps with your decision but our requirements are focussed on outback touring and towing so may be different from yours

Regards

Rob

[101RRS]

Can we stop calling then SUVs - they are 4wds. Yes I appreciate the battle against this Americanism has probably been lost but there is no reason to reinforce its use.

I have a RRS bought when it had 38,000km and now 91,000km. I don't know about the Prado but my brother has a 10MY Hilux so same basic vehicle as a Prado underneath - it also has about 90,000km on it and has certainly cost a little bit more to maintain and had a few more issues (a few replacement steering columns) than my RRS.

So I would say that there is nothing to fear with a used D4 as long as the usual pre purchase checks are done.

Garry

[Grant052]

Well said Garry, and oh BTW, can we PLEASE stop calling them "trucks"? I don't drive a "truck", my Disco 3 (and D4s and RRS's) are all extremely capable off-road, comfortable cars. They do not have the characteristics of a truck nor do they drive like a truck (unlike the Land Cruisers and Patrols, hmmm, going to cop some flak over that aren't I?) so please desist, we don't drive "trucks"!

[101RRS]

Well said Garry, and oh BTW, can we PLEASE stop calling them "trucks"? I don't drive a "truck", my Disco 3 (and D4s and RRS's) are all extremely capable off-road, comfortable cars.

I agree with respect to D3s etc but I do have a big truck and a little truck and they are referred to as such

Big Truck and Little Truck together :)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P9290133_zpsaa1c376f.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P9290133_zpsaa1c376f.jpg.html)

[dazray]

I drove a LC200 Sahara the other day. It drove really nicely and was very comfortable. The only 2 things I really wanted that the LC200 had was standard 18" wheels and 135 ltr tank.
Things I didn't like was the third row seats don't fold flat into floor and unless your 5 your knees are around your ears in the third row.
And of course I love the air suspension in my D4.
If the D4 had 18" rims and a larger capacity tank say at least 100 ltrs as standard, it would be the perfect 4wd for me..
I know you can get GOE rims, but then that is another $2750 + rubber for a set of 5.

[101RRS]

I drove a LC200 Sahara the other day. It drove really nicely and was very comfortable.

My other brother also has a LC200 Sahara bought new in March this year - it has already has its front suspension replaced as the springs had sagged - he could have had them replaced under warranty but went for aftermarket springs which are better but have still settled a bit. Otherwise is going well - he pulled out the rear seats as they take up too much room even when folded. With his 3rd seats in place my RRS has more room inside. The D3/D4 seems smaller on the outside and is much larger on the inside.

So all cars have their issues.

Garry

[dazray]

I've had my D4 for a bit over 3 years now and I don't think that wow feeling is ever going to wear off. Every time I drive it I think to myself man this is a great car...

[discolandinaus]

Thanks all for your valuable suggestions/opinions.

I believe Coolum has the ability to read minds :-). ""imagine buying a Prado and every time you see a D4 drive past you'll be thinking how much more that lucky person is enjoying the trip. From the past few months I am carefully looking at every Disco on the roads and also look at the driver :-)

From the thread what I understood is Prado and Disco has almost the same maintaince and that it is all about how the used vehicle was maintained so far.

As I am more inclined towards the Disco, can somebody suggest where to inspect the used vehicle in Melbourne before I buy. I mean any mechanics to suggest. Further, if I am buying from a dealer, is it necessary to check with a mechanic or whether I can take the dealers assurance? I am looking at a couple of disco 4 in car sales currently.

[shanegtr]

Im going to add nothing to the original post here, but:

Can we stop calling then SUVs - they are 4wds. Yes I appreciate the battle against this Americanism has probably been lost but there is no reason to reinforce its use.


I agree. To me a Sport Utility Vehicle (SUV) would be a V8 falcon or commodore ute:D

[Epic pooh]

And if it's a V8 commodore wagon, it's a "hot hatch" :)

[nat_89]

I drove a LC200 Sahara the other day. It drove really nicely and was very comfortable. The only 2 things I really wanted that the LC200 had was standard 18" wheels and 135 ltr tank.
Things I didn't like was the third row seats don't fold flat into floor and unless your 5 your knees are around your ears in the third row.
And of course I love the air suspension in my D4.
If the D4 had 18" rims and a larger capacity tank say at least 100 ltrs as standard, it would be the perfect 4wd for me..
I know you can get GOE rims, but then that is another $2750 + rubber for a set of 5.

Ill have to agree there i did love the big fuel tanks on the Toyotas and i mean the smaller wheels are better to but i figured something as lame as the fuel tank was not going to win me over a D4 it just does everything better but i wish some how they could just get it up to 100L as you said!!

And ill second the rear seats Toyotas design is just stupidity and there so uncomfortable plus the way the second row go aswell they roll forward and no flat floor!! The air suspension just make them so smooth and comfortable such a great car.

[nat_89]

Thanks all for your valuable suggestions/opinions.

I believe Coolum has the ability to read minds :-). ""imagine buying a Prado and every time you see a D4 drive past you'll be thinking how much more that lucky person is enjoying the trip. From the past few months I am carefully looking at every Disco on the roads and also look at the driver :-)


I did that when i bought my Prado 150 was a big nervous about LR and the costs and it just peeved me right off going past every D4 and wanting one!!

Now i have it i just love it best car I've ever owned!!

[coolum]

A mates friend (who was driving a new LC 200) got in my D3 V8 HSE (with 250Kms on the dial) and after a bit of a run on the beach and on gravel road ....


just piped up -


"Gee, they have a nice ride don't they".


I haven't been in a LC200 but - how could I not agree!


Driving the D3, the only cars I look at on the road with "just a pinch of envy" are the new all Alloy 'Big' Rangies / Maybe some D4's


but - nothing else even slightly impresses me ... X5, Merc, Audi, Dubs, Cayenne - Meh


Sorry to mention / or not to mention Toyos, Nissn (there may be another I cant recall )- sorry I didn't see that one


(joke)

[Bandi1950]

I have always had land rovers but did have a look around at Prado's and LC200's before I bought my D4 to see if the Toyota product could win me over. Although the LC200 is no bigger than the D4 it felt very big and you did not get a lot of fruit for your money. Was not too keen on the 3l diesel in the Prado after the motor in my work Hilux self destructed at only 140,000km. approx. $10000
The D4 has done 120,000km with no problems so far. Only additional items outside of normal servicing have been a transmission sump and oil change and pads a set of brake pads. First 104,000km was free servicing and since then have serviced myself.

[Randylandy]

Do take it for an inspection to a landrover specialist. We just bought a D3 and much to the annoyance of the dealer I insisted in taking it to have it inspected. Turns out the guy who inspected it knew the car and said it was a good buy but did point out a few things wrong that the dealer had to repair as they where roadworthyness issues. Dealer was a bit red faced considering they had just given it a road worthy. Well worth the $60. Love it by the way even though the mrs wont let me drive it, have. Even relegated to the D1

[nat_89]

I have always had land rovers but did have a look around at Prado's and LC200's before I bought my D4 to see if the Toyota product could win me over. Although the LC200 is no bigger than the D4 it felt very big and you did not get a lot of fruit for your money. Was not too keen on the 3l diesel in the Prado after the motor in my work Hilux self destructed at only 140,000km. approx. $10000
The D4 has done 120,000km with no problems so far. Only additional items outside of normal servicing have been a transmission sump and oil change and pads a set of brake pads. First 104,000km was free servicing and since then have serviced myself.

I did the same thing took both of Toyotas offerings for a drive before buying my D4 and it was just hard to come up with any reasons to take them apart from the long range fuel tank but thats such a minor thing its not worth it!! The D4 engine is just so beautiful and free revving where as the Toyota V8 really feels like it doesn't want to do it and feels like you have to ring its neck, plus i found the seats to flat in the LC200. The Prado does have nice seats i did like them but missed the arm rest!


A mates friend (who was driving a new LC 200) got in my D3 V8 HSE (with 250Kms on the dial) and after a bit of a run on the beach and on gravel road ....


just piped up -


"Gee, they have a nice ride don't they".


I haven't been in a LC200 but - how could I not agree!


Driving the D3, the only cars I look at on the road with "just a pinch of envy" are the new all Alloy 'Big' Rangies / Maybe some D4's


but - nothing else even slightly impresses me ... X5, Merc, Audi, Dubs, Cayenne - Meh


Sorry to mention / or not to mention Toyos, Nissn (there may be another I cant recall )- sorry I didn't see that one


(joke)

Ill definitely agree there not much catches my eye in the D4 apart from the new RRS and RRVs jeeze they are damn gorgeous machines!!

[Ean Austral]

I don't have a D4 but do have a D3. you asked about the long term costs well this is mine, We purchased the car 2nd hand with about 45,000ks from memory and had no history but was bought from a L/R independent so assumed it was checked out by them.
Bought the car in SA and towed our camper to Vic then up to Darwin. Since then it now has 120,000ks.


Only part that has failed is the rear tailgate latch.
Replaced the gearbox oil and pan
Replaced the front lower arms
Bought a code reader for fault finding.


I service and maintain the car myself, and the gearbox and lower arms were done as preventative maintainence. The car is a daily driver but has also towed our camper trailer all over the country.


If the D4 is an improvement on the D3 then its some car cause I cant fault ours.


Cheers Ean

[JamesH]

Did anyone see Jeremy Clarkson's review of the Prado in today's Weekend Oz? I know he has his faults and silly opinions but he can be very amusing on a rant, especially when the object is the 3 litre diesel Prado.B)

[Greatsouthernland]

No. But this is funny...Clarkson reviews the 2014 landcruiser


...And that’s just the start of it. The steering wheel appears to be connected to the actual wheels by something made out of rubber bands and safety pins. And the brakes? At first you think nothing is happening at all, so you stand on the pedal with all your might, and then it feels as though so much energy is being used that the planet is shifting slightly in its orbit around the sun.

And now we must address the biggest problem of them all: the complete lack of comfort. A switch is provided — near the glovebox, obviously — that changes the suspension from Sport (that’s a laugh) to Auto and Normal, but in all three positions the result is the same. Deep discomfort and a sense the chassis is flexing every time you go over a pothole. You don’t drive this car. It lurches along and you sit there saying, “Ow.”...

...Yes, a Range Rover is expensive, and the current model is fitted with a security system that seemingly allows it to be stolen by anyone with a lollipop stick and five minutes to kill.

So by all means buy the half-price Land Cruiser instead. Certainly it’s extremely likely still to be on your drive in the morning. Unfortunately.
Clarkson’s verdict ★☆☆☆☆

I wouldn’t wish it on Isis...


The Clarkson review: Toyota Land Cruiser (2014) | Driving.co.uk (http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-toyota-land-cruiser-2014/?CMP=SOC_108786603_Editorial_TWITTER_ST_Driving_20 141105_Driving&linkId=10378222)

[Robmacca]

I have always had land rovers but did have a look around at Prado's and LC200's before I bought my D4 to see if the Toyota product could win me over. Although the LC200 is no bigger than the D4 it felt very big and you did not get a lot of fruit for your money. Was not too keen on the 3l diesel in the Prado after the motor in my work Hilux self destructed at only 140,000km. approx. $10000
The D4 has done 120,000km with no problems so far. Only additional items outside of normal servicing have been a transmission sump and oil change and pads a set of brake pads. First 104,000km was free servicing and since then have serviced myself.
Has anyone actually got a tape measure and measured the internal widths of the 200s and the D3/4 and compared them? A comparison of the 1st, 2nd row seating and then the cargo width, depth, height?
I still find it hard to believe that the disco's have more cargo space area than the lc200.

Then there's ground clearance comparisons. I realise the lc200 at the front is pretty poor but taller tyres/suspension can rectify that.
When the D3/4's are fully loaded for demoted touring, with them being all independent suspension do they keep the height as when unloaded? What's the tallest tyre that u can fit to them?
The only reason I asked this is because I've driven some outback roads where the middle section is quite high from built up rocks, etc and any vehicles that don't have good ground clearance or good underbody protection 'could' eventually suffer from some damage under their vehicles......

[Graeme]

When the D3/4's are fully loaded for demoted touring, with them being all independent suspension do they keep the height as when unloaded?
The only reason I asked this is because I've driven some outback roads where the middle section is quite high from built up rocks, etc and any vehicles that don't have good ground clearance or good underbody protection 'could' eventually suffer from some damage under their vehicles......
The air suspension keeps the vehicle at the same height regardless of weight.

As for the high crowns on outback roads, LLAMS was developed specifically to overcome this issue. LLAMS can raise the vehicle's standard height by 30mm or 50/55mm, as selected by the driver and cancelled at any time. LLAMS has some other features too.

[Robmacca]

That's good to know.... How reliable is it (ie leaking, etc) and is it well protected from any flying stones/rocks at all ??


The air suspension keeps the vehicle at the same height regardless of weight.

As for the high crowns on outback roads, LLAMS was developed specifically to overcome this issue. LLAMS can raise the vehicle's standard height by 30mm or 50/55mm, as selected by the driver and cancelled at any time. LLAMS has some other features too.

[Graeme]

The air lines are generally well protected. The biggest issue probably has been earlier versions of the compressor that have sometimes failed seemingly prematurely, often due to a clogged air dryer not being replaced in time to avoid wearing out the compressor.

The vehicles have a 50/55mm raised off-road height but the suspension lowers to its normal height at 50 kph making for slow travel on high crown roads without a method to keep the suspension raised above this speed. Fitting LLAMS is one method, shorter or multi-hole height sensor link rods is another.

[nat_89]

No. But this is funny...Clarkson reviews the 2014 landcruiser


...And that’s just the start of it. The steering wheel appears to be connected to the actual wheels by something made out of rubber bands and safety pins. And the brakes? At first you think nothing is happening at all, so you stand on the pedal with all your might, and then it feels as though so much energy is being used that the planet is shifting slightly in its orbit around the sun.

And now we must address the biggest problem of them all: the complete lack of comfort. A switch is provided — near the glovebox, obviously — that changes the suspension from Sport (that’s a laugh) to Auto and Normal, but in all three positions the result is the same. Deep discomfort and a sense the chassis is flexing every time you go over a pothole. You don’t drive this car. It lurches along and you sit there saying, “Ow.”...

...Yes, a Range Rover is expensive, and the current model is fitted with a security system that seemingly allows it to be stolen by anyone with a lollipop stick and five minutes to kill.

So by all means buy the half-price Land Cruiser instead. Certainly it’s extremely likely still to be on your drive in the morning. Unfortunately.
Clarkson’s verdict ★☆☆☆☆

I wouldn’t wish it on Isis...


The Clarkson review: Toyota Land Cruiser (2014) | Driving.co.uk (http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-toyota-land-cruiser-2014/?CMP=SOC_108786603_Editorial_TWITTER_ST_Driving_20 141105_Driving&linkId=10378222)

Hahaha oh god he has a way with words and i love it!!

[lpj]

This is another example of how over priced Toyota's re in Australia (and just about everything else). The fact that LC200 can be half the price of a "similar" spec LR product in the UK shows this. A local RR Vogue is 180k- Toyota Sahara is 120K.

The comparison with the Range Rover makes the price difference seem a lot but if you compare the UK price of the top of the range LC200 with the D4 HSE Luxury there is not much in it.

I know which i'd prefer!

[101RRS]

A local RR Vogue is 180k- Toyota Sahara is 120K.



These are in a different class of vehicle - a Toyota Sahara is the equivalent of a Disco 4 HSE. If you want a comparable class as the RR Vogue then you go to the Lexus LX 570 - just a little cheaper than a fully fat RR.

We need to compare apples with apples.

Generally speaking the equivalent LC product has a similar price to the LR product - shows up the value for money of LR.

Though the LC 200 Sahara does have a lot of fruit - some of annoyingly so - it constantly gongs and cherps which drives you up the wall. Beside the size of the fuel tanks the other great accessory in the Sahara is the huge fridge in the console - three times the size of the LR offering and works really well - uses the A/c system not the cheap thermo-electric system LR uses.

Garry

[Hoges]

No. But this is funny...Clarkson reviews the 2014 landcruiser


The Clarkson review: Toyota Land Cruiser (2014) | Driving.co.uk (http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-toyota-land-cruiser-2014/?CMP=SOC_108786603_Editorial_TWITTER_ST_Driving_20 141105_Driving&linkId=10378222)

Clarkson was actually reviewing the latest Prado which is sold as the Land Cruiser in the UK.

From a few press reports, there is a security issue with the FFRR in the UK -some insurance companies will not sell a FFRR policy unless the vehicle is securely garaged when not in use...

[nat_89]

Though the LC 200 Sahara does have a lot of fruit - some of annoyingly so - it constantly gongs and cherps which drives you up the wall. Beside the size of the fuel tanks the other great accessory in the Sahara is the huge fridge in the console - three times the size of the LR offering and works really well - uses the A/c system not the cheap thermo-electric system LR uses.

Garry

Ill have to give Toyota that the fridge in the Sahara is bloody amazing works so well the 2 times we took one for a drive before buying the D4 i threw it on for fun and it no time at all it was cool as in there plus its fan forced so chills down nice and quick plus as you said the size is great to!!

LRs fridge is next to hopeless so tiny cant even fit a 600ml bottle of water in there maybe 3 cans i dunno.

[nat_89]

Apparently there is only 2 models of Prado in the UK which they call Landcruiser, base is called Icon and top is called Invincible, pretty different to our GX GXL VX and KAKADU hahaha.

And the 200 series is called Landcruiser V8 it appears similar spec to a Sahara although looks like more fruit and starts from 65,000 pounds and the Prado starts at 47,000 pounds.

[101RRS]

LRs fridge is next to hopeless so tiny cant even fit a 600ml bottle of water in there maybe 3 cans i dunno.

I can certainly fit four 600ml bottles or four cans in my fridge.

[scarry]

From a few press reports, there is a security issue with the FFRR in the UK -some insurance companies will not sell a FFRR policy unless the vehicle is securely garaged when not in use...

You can get some gadget off fleabay and hack the latest FFRR.Apparently 297 were stolen in one month in London:eek:

The 1970 model classic is probably more secure....:D

[nat_89]

I can certainly fit four 600ml bottles or four cans in my fridge.

Jeeze the demo one i had a while ago couldn't stand a 600ml bottle of coke up in in looked pretty tight although i had that top shelf thing in do you have to take that out?

[d2dave]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a FFRR?

[LandyAndy]

Fitted For Radio Rangie?????
Andrew

[SBD4]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a FFRR?

Full Fat Range Rover

[cripesamighty]

FFRR = Fully Fat Range Rover.
Basically a full sized Range Rover (L322, L405 models) is sometimes called FFRR to differentiate it from the smaller sized Range Rover models, ie RR Sport (L320, L494) or Evoque. Can be used a term of endearment or not...depending on which Range Rover model you drive!

[discolandinaus]

I don't have a D4 but do have a D3. you asked about the long term costs well this is mine, We purchased the car 2nd hand with about 45,000ks from memory and had no history but was bought from a L/R independent so assumed it was checked out by them.
Bought the car in SA and towed our camper to Vic then up to Darwin. Since then it now has 120,000ks.


Only part that has failed is the rear tailgate latch.
Replaced the gearbox oil and pan
Replaced the front lower arms
Bought a code reader for fault finding.


I service and maintain the car myself, and the gearbox and lower arms were done as preventative maintainence. The car is a daily driver but has also towed our camper trailer all over the country.


If the D4 is an improvement on the D3 then its some car cause I cant fault ours.


Cheers Ean

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Your response is very helpful for me to take a decision.

Might be a stupid question. I understand that all these vehicles have a lot of softwares and if you service the vehicle yourself how do you get the software update?

By the way, I will also soon learn some basic mechanic work.:)

[d2dave]

Might be a stupid question. I understand that all these vehicles have a lot of softwares and if you service the vehicle yourself how do you get the software update?

By the way, I will also soon learn some basic mechanic work.:)

You purchase a device called Nanocom.

[discolandinaus]

I have always had land rovers but did have a look around at Prado's and LC200's before I bought my D4 to see if the Toyota product could win me over. Although the LC200 is no bigger than the D4 it felt very big and you did not get a lot of fruit for your money. Was not too keen on the 3l diesel in the Prado after the motor in my work Hilux self destructed at only 140,000km. approx. $10000
The D4 has done 120,000km with no problems so far. Only additional items outside of normal servicing have been a transmission sump and oil change and pads a set of brake pads. First 104,000km was free servicing and since then have serviced myself.

Thank. I believe, being large vehicle break pad needs to get replaced more often which is common with every 4*4.

After going through the post I understand that the thread subject is not right. The comparison should be between Disco vs LC rather than Prado. Anyway I was never looking for an LC. I have very minimal usage of the vehicle. Week days around 20km/day and weekends around 75km/day. I am not sure whether this justifies a Diesel vehicle. Any thoughts??
However, I am planning for long drives couple of times a year.

[Leroy_Riding]

Ill Throw my 2c in on this one.

I own a D3 (and only had it for a few days!)
but one of my two best friends is a toyota fan boy, the other a Land rover nut like me (he has had 4 RR classics and 2 Disco's currently a D2, and looking at a D4 for the wife)

My mate who is the Toyota nut, not a mechanical bone in his body, he couldn't tell you the alternator from the fuel tank, but he swears by his Prado 150, says its the best 4x4 on the planet, unstoppable, unlimited power, tows anything without feeling it, comfort unrivaled. . . I personally found my Defender 90 I had before my D3 to ride better and have more go, and I got rid of the D90 for the D3 in favor of comfort!

Ive driven his Prado 150 (top of the line spec he says, I don't know what model that makes it) plenty of times (I don't drink so I become the designated driver) and the thing felt gutless, the gear shift felt more flogged out than my 1963 Morris mini! the clutch is on or off with no feel what so ever (nor matters if you are getting an auto) towing my 7x5 trailer with green waste he struggled to keep up with me in my d90 towing another 7x5 full of logs, and if you buy the Prado in an Auto, the towing capacity is reduced to 2500kgs. . . and it moves even slower 0_0
his seats are uncomfortable, the steering has no feel to it and you wonder if its going to turn at all some times, the body roll is phenomenal. . .

you could not pay me to own that thing. . . it only has 20xxxkms on the clock too.

My Other mate the LR nut, he is a Mechanic and recons the Prado 150 is a pretty good car, and was considering buying one for his wife really soon as he was impressed that is was better than his D2 for comfort and safety (he has a 1 year old daughter) when I picked up the D3 and took it to him to check over for me. . . he was sold, his Wife is now getting a D4 instead of the Prado, but he still stands buy that Mechanically there is nothing wrong with the Prado.

I know what I would buy, the only people I know who will take a Prado over a D3/D4 are Toyota fan boys/girls as they do not feel like a premium product, the feel cheap, drive cheap. . . . my D3 has 181xxxkms on the clock and feels like new to drive, its quieter and more comfortable than the Prado 150 hands down. . . heck Id Take a Defender Back before I went to a Prado.

If you want cheaper spares and Mechanics around the country who know how to work on them, Maybe the Prado is still the car for you, If you want to be comfortable, have a endless grin on your face while driving, and feel like you are in a premium product, buy the D4.

Leroy.

[Ean Austral]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Your response is very helpful for me to take a decision.

Might be a stupid question. I understand that all these vehicles have a lot of softwares and if you service the vehicle yourself how do you get the software update?

By the way, I will also soon learn some basic mechanic work.:)



I haven't had the software updates, so cant answer that, but I bought a code reader for fault finding. there are a few different sorts, but im my opinion they are the most important thing to buy.


Cheers Ean

[BMKal]

Over the past 20 years or so, I've had -

a 90 Series Prado (diesel)
four 120 Series Prado's (three V6 petrol, 1 diesel)
a 150 Series Prado (diesel)

I also test drove a new FJ Cruiser (150 SWB Prado with a different body on it).

For offroad capability - the 90 series Prado wins hands down. For comfort and long range bitumen travelling - the V6 petrol 120 Series is a good wagon.

The 150 series - had this up at Nullagine and used only on dirt roads with a few "rough" tracks in the mix - this vehicle was rubbish.

The FJ Cruiser - well for the price, I had to try it as I was looking for a new vehicle at the time. Waste of time really - it had no redeeming traits that I could point to (other than it was a cheap way to get into a Prado).

All of the Prado's were company cars - and came with a fuel card and all costs paid for, so I can't really comment on the cost of ownership - other than to say that they ALL used more fuel than a diesel Discovery (of any model).

At the same time as having all of the above, I have had three Disco's which were my own private vehicle - a D1 V8, a D2 Td5 which my son still has, and now the D4.

Would I ever buy a Prado myself - not a chance. ;)

Any of the Disco's I've owned would walk all over any of the Prado's off road, and while the 120 Prado was a great vehicle on a long (bitumen) run and had better range than any Disco (with 180 litres of fuel as standard), they are not as comfortable as the Disco and use more fuel.

Reliability - I've never had any problems worth mentioning with any of them - the Prado's or the Disco's. ;)

If you like driving "whitegoods" - buy a Prado. Some of them can be an OK drive - but so is my wife's Camry. :(

The best Toyota I've had was an 80 Series GXL Landcruiser. I had this and then a new 100 Series (which was rubbish) before the 90 Series Prado.

[nat_89]

Over the past 20 years or so, I've had -

a 90 Series Prado (diesel)
four 120 Series Prado's (three V6 petrol, 1 diesel)
a 150 Series Prado (diesel)

I also test drove a new FJ Cruiser (150 SWB Prado with a different body on it).

For offroad capability - the 90 series Prado wins hands down. For comfort and long range bitumen travelling - the V6 petrol 120 Series is a good wagon.

The 150 series - had this up at Nullagine and used only on dirt roads with a few "rough" tracks in the mix - this vehicle was rubbish.

The FJ Cruiser - well for the price, I had to try it as I was looking for a new vehicle at the time. Waste of time really - it had no redeeming traits that I could point to (other than it was a cheap way to get into a Prado).

All of the Prado's were company cars - and came with a fuel card and all costs paid for, so I can't really comment on the cost of ownership - other than to say that they ALL used more fuel than a diesel Discovery (of any model).

At the same time as having all of the above, I have had three Disco's which were my own private vehicle - a D1 V8, a D2 Td5 which my son still has, and now the D4.

Would I ever buy a Prado myself - not a chance. ;)

Any of the Disco's I've owned would walk all over any of the Prado's off road, and while the 120 Prado was a great vehicle on a long (bitumen) run and had better range than any Disco (with 180 litres of fuel as standard), they are not as comfortable as the Disco and use more fuel.

Reliability - I've never had any problems worth mentioning with any of them - the Prado's or the Disco's. ;)

If you like driving "whitegoods" - buy a Prado. Some of them can be an OK drive - but so is my wife's Camry. :(

The best Toyota I've had was an 80 Series GXL Landcruiser. I had this and then a new 100 Series (which was rubbish) before the 90 Series Prado.

Your spot on with all you say i had a 150 Prado Altitude before my D4 and it wasn't a bad car pretty comfy and all that but i didn't really excel at anything apart from having a big fuel tank that was all it did well!! It was pretty damn gutless especially when it came to over taking and trying to get 3 cars at once bloody hard there, the back cargo space was stupid with its raised up area that was on a slight lean for the back seats.

I did like how comfy the seats were and it was relatively quiet nothing on a D4 though, and i did like how they all come with keyless entry no need for a $2500 option like on the D4s.

As for the FJ they are a pretty cool car but a big V6 petrol i know mates that cant get over 400kms a tank out of the old 72L tank before Toyota changed it to a 140L tank but I've heard people say they just drink heaps of fuel, definitely need a diesel there!!

The old 80 series i think everyone seems to agree they were the last decent 4WD Toyota made.

[catch-22]

Can we stop calling then SUVs - they are 4wds. Yes I appreciate the battle against this Americanism has probably been lost but there is no reason to reinforce its use.

I'm with you, Garry. Even LR's main site calls the new Discovery Sport an SUV.

[BMKal]

Your spot on with all you say i had a 150 Prado Altitude before my D4 and it wasn't a bad car pretty comfy and all that but i didn't really excel at anything apart from having a big fuel tank that was all it did well!! It was pretty damn gutless especially when it came to over taking and trying to get 3 cars at once bloody hard there, the back cargo space was stupid with its raised up area that was on a slight lean for the back seats.

I did like how comfy the seats were and it was relatively quiet nothing on a D4 though, and i did like how they all come with keyless entry no need for a $2500 option like on the D4s.

As for the FJ they are a pretty cool car but a big V6 petrol i know mates that cant get over 400kms a tank out of the old 72L tank before Toyota changed it to a 140L tank but I've heard people say they just drink heaps of fuel, definitely need a diesel there!!

The old 80 series i think everyone seems to agree they were the last decent 4WD Toyota made.

You can keep the keyless entry ................ :D

The prado 150 I had up at Nullagine had this feature - nothing but trouble as far as I'm concerned. It used to amaze me how many times the thing locked and unlocked itself when I was giving it a squirt with the hose to get some of the red dust off it.

My D4 hasn't got it - and I don't want it. ;)

[nat_89]

You can keep the keyless entry ................ :D

The prado 150 I had up at Nullagine had this feature - nothing but trouble as far as I'm concerned. It used to amaze me how many times the thing locked and unlocked itself when I was giving it a squirt with the hose to get some of the red dust off it.

My D4 hasn't got it - and I don't want it. ;)

HAHAHAHA yeah thats so true mine did exactly the same thing when washing it you had to lock the car then put the damn key inside the house so it didn't keep beeping lock then beep locked it was a pain for that but other than that i liked it.

But so true i forgot about that was a crack up haha and if you left the key inside the car it kept beeping thinking you were trying to lock it!

[discolandinaus]

Ill Throw my 2c in on this one.

I own a D3 (and only had it for a few days!)
but one of my two best friends is a toyota fan boy, the other a Land rover nut like me (he has had 4 RR classics and 2 Disco's currently a D2, and looking at a D4 for the wife)

Leroy.

Congrats on your new car!

Actually I was very happy with Prado till the time I test drove the D4 ;-). Prado is a great vehicle and I don't have any complaint about it. However, as soon as I drove the D4, I really felt the difference and I asked my wife sitting beside me and she also felt the same. However, Landrover being a premium brand I was a little afraid to take a decision. However, I feel a lot comfortable now especially after finding that there are a couple of landrover mechanics around Melbourne.

[Hatchy]

I had this same dilemma 5yrs ago. I ended up buying a 2006 D3 4.0L with 45,000km. Five years later (just June 28th this year) I sad goodbye to it with 242,000km on the odometer and loved putting every one of them on it. I am so glad I bought it. Don't be fooled thinking the Toyota will be more reliable those days are gone. I had it services by my local Land Rover mechanic (not a stealer) and only had to replace the front arms. I couldn't be one of those people driving and seeing discoverys wishing I was driving one.

They are so nice to drive and own!

[discolandinaus]

I had this same dilemma 5yrs ago. I ended up buying a 2006 D3 4.0L with 45,000km. Five years later (just June 28th this year) I sad goodbye to it with 242,000km on the odometer and loved putting every one of them on it. I am so glad I bought it. Don't be fooled thinking the Toyota will be more reliable those days are gone. I had it services by my local Land Rover mechanic (not a stealer) and only had to replace the front arms. I couldn't be one of those people driving and seeing discoverys wishing I was driving one.

They are so nice to drive and own!

I feel a few others also who replied in this thread had the same dilemma as me and you :-)

I am looking for a D4 with no more than 50,000km on the clock, hope I will be able to find something soon.

[LandyAndy]

Hang out for an 8 speed auto if you can afford it.LOVE MINE!!!!!
Brilliant vehicle to drive!!!!!
Andrew

[Bytemrk]

I am looking for a D4 with no more than 50,000km on the clock, hope I will be able to find something soon.

Patience, lots of searching, know exactly what you are looking for, lots more searching and move fast when you find the right car..... that's your answer ;)


Oh... and drive a bunch so that you know what they should feel like ;D

[Bytemrk]

Hang out for an 8 speed auto if you can afford it.

Paddles don't get in the way of the Latte hey Andy :P

[LandyAndy]

Paddles don't get in the way of the Latte hey Andy :P

I sip it outside the vehicle,dont wish to spill it and waste it;);););)
Andrew

[Epic pooh]

Why are we raggin' on Yotas ... it's Patrols that seem to always be in my way ... snail like, right hand lane hogging, hand grenade motor, heap of 1960 design yadda yadda ... etc ... hahaha

[bsperka]

Got to agree with you on the right hand lane hogging. Is it in their DNA?

[mowog]

I am coming up for 5 years with our D4.

I hasn't been problem free but things just needed fixing at the normal services. It has never let us down or left us stranded.

The first 3 years it cost less to service than the Ford Territory I had over its 3 years with us.

Our D4 will be staying in family it is simply brilliant and it has aged better than any other car we have owned before.

I would buy other Discovery if I needed too.

[Epic pooh]

Got to agree with you on the right hand lane hogging. Is it in their DNA?

My theory is that the vehicle is so rough and gutless that the driver looses all sense of perspective on speed and location on the road - it beats them senseless ! Thats the kind version of my theory ... :o

[rocmic]

Hi discolandinaus,
What Mowog said, I've had the D3 for six years and 170000 km. Still a very good car and the pinstripes add plenty of character.
To give an idea of cost over that period, I am averaging about $9 - 10k running costs per year. This includes servicing (mainly at the dealer since the car was leased for the first five years, now I am using an independent and it has become cheaper), tyres, fuel (average 12 l/100km on the TDV6), registration and CTP and comprehensive insurance. Insurance is also about $500 less since I came off the lease and arranged my own. Rego also reduced by about a couple of hundred once off lease since leased vehicles are registered as business use.
My car is a daily driver including a lot of very slow stop/start on the Sydney M4 car park and Parramatta road.
Included in the maintenance, apart from normal servicing and brakes; two sets of front lower control arms (first one under warranty), one new battery (from stealer), timing belts, steel pan conversion.
I am on my fourth set of tyres and will have to get a new set soon. Still trying to work out what is best in the AT range. The mechanic who just changed the control arms said that the first time they were done (by the dealer) that they had put the bolts in back to front, which had major effects on alignment.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Mike

[letherm]

The mechanic who just changed the control arms said that the first time they were done (by the dealer) that they had put the bolts in back to front, which had major effects on alignment.



Can you say which dealer that was? I live not too far from you.

[rocmic]

Can you say which dealer that was? I live not too far from you.

The closest dealer to us, have to say that is the only thing that appears to have been done wrong and I am taking the other mechanic's word for it.
Cheers
Mike

[nat_89]

My theory is that the vehicle is so rough and gutless that the driver looses all sense of perspective on speed and location on the road - it beats them senseless ! Thats the kind version of my theory ... :o

haha your so right they are a gutless piece of crap and anything over 80kmh feels fast!! Nothing worse then getting to an overtaking lane and the Patrol pulls out in front of you to overtake and a big cloud of smoke comes out and he just pulls in before the lane ends and you never get past!!

[discolandinaus]

Hi discolandinaus,
What Mowog said, I've had the D3 for six years and 170000 km. Still a very good car and the pinstripes add plenty of character.
To give an idea of cost over that period, I am averaging about $9 - 10k running costs per year. This includes servicing (mainly at the dealer since the car was leased for the first five years, now I am using an independent and it has become cheaper), tyres, fuel (average 12 l/100km on the TDV6), registration and CTP and comprehensive insurance. Insurance is also about $500 less since I came off the lease and arranged my own. Rego also reduced by about a couple of hundred once off lease since leased vehicles are registered as business use.
My car is a daily driver including a lot of very slow stop/start on the Sydney M4 car park and Parramatta road.
Included in the maintenance, apart from normal servicing and brakes; two sets of front lower control arms (first one under warranty), one new battery (from stealer), timing belts, steel pan conversion.
I am on my fourth set of tyres and will have to get a new set soon. Still trying to work out what is best in the AT range. The mechanic who just changed the control arms said that the first time they were done (by the dealer) that they had put the bolts in back to front, which had major effects on alignment.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Mike

Thanks for your response. I was looking for a similar response so that I know what I need to spend every year on the vehicle.

I see that the running cost mentioned by you is similar to any 4*4. Considering that your vehicle has run 170000km in 5 years its about 34000 km/year which is approximately $6500 on fuel. I believe the rest amount should cover the insurance, registration and service cost.

[Wilesy]

I find this thread such an interesting read, especially coming from people who haven't owned a particular vehicle, only test drove one or was told by a mate.

Anyway, let's get a few things into prospective, the D4 and the Prado 150 have about a 15-20k difference in price, and IMHO the D4 is a closer comparison to the LC200 rather the Prado, that's to begin with.

Amongst many other 4x4's I have owned, though these seem relevant to this conversation, I have owned the Disco 1 V8 for 100k the LC100V8 for 200k, the Range Rover Vogue for 80k and currently the Prado 150 diesel with 100k on the clock, all purchased brand new at the time.


I usually travel about 70k per annum. I also own a BMW X5 M-Sport which I also drive on weekends, hence the reason the Prado only has 100k after 2 years of driving, though not really relevant to this conversation.

To be clear, I have no bias toward any brand, I buy what I like at the time, what I feel is reasonable value for money and what fits into the current budget so hopefully my opinion has a little validity.

Having said that, I have just ordered a Range Rover SportTDV6 which will be arriving in March and I intend on keeping my Prado also because I think it's a great car and has never let me down.

When purchasing a vehicle, everyone's needs and expectations are different, the budget you have, your intentions of how long you intend keeping the vehicle, your usual driving requirements etc.

In my particular case, I purchase the vehicle, Service it regularly according to the book and dispose of it after about 3 or 4 years, if I intended keeping it long term maybe I would do a few things differently, but I don't.

In the case of the Services between the Prado and the D4, I can only comment on what the Prado costs me and what I have paid to date.

I purchased the vehicle in January 2013 and with all Toyotas had at no extra cost the capped price servicing included in the purchase. It has cost me to date and all up to 100k, $2600 according to all of my receipts in total for all Services including a full set of brakes replacement at 70k. (Plus a new set of tyres, BFG At's @ 75k not included) That's 10 dealer Services. Pretty cheap Servicing in my book.

The vehicle is comfortable enough, has a fuel tank (TwinTanks) which allows me to travel 1300klm's between drinks and I get an average of according to the computer 9.2 litres per 100 klm's on average. Has reasonable power for a 3.0 litre diesel and the fit and finish are above average. Off road ability is reasonable and beyond most drivers abilities anyway. And just quietly, I always drive it as though I stole it....

Let me say that not one thing has broken since purchase, not even a bulb, so let's get a few things into prospective, they are a nice 4x4 and it does what it's meant to do so let's not bash the Prado too much, it maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but neither is the D4 so let's be a little fair, and neither is the price difference.

It just gets up my nose a little when people say I wouldn't own one for any money all based on what a mate said or they have just driven it a few times, if that was the case, and most LR owners would agree, that no-one would buy a LR if you read every story and believed everything which was said....Having said what I have just said, I won't even go down the conversation track of what went wrong with my Disco and how much it cost me to keep it on the road, it would make most people here cringe....and it never even saw a dirt road..

[PAT303]

Can I ask with your capped price servicing,how many times in 100K did all the fluids get changed,diff's,tranny,T/C,clutch,brake,P/S?,with the 10 dealer services did they actually service it or do inspections?. Pat

[Wilesy]

Can I ask with your capped price servicing,how many times in 100K did all the fluids get changed,diff's,tranny,T/C,clutch,brake,P/S?,with the 10 dealer services did they actually service it or do inspections?. Pat

Hi Pat,


I will have to go through the receipts to check it, though all what is listed they presumed to have done, the capped price was $210 for each and every service until 100,000. When it was booked on the 80k, the service guy gave me a price of $1100 over the phone because it was a major service with all diffs, trannies etc. I told him I was under capped price servicing and he said, he should have asked as nearly everyone has it at the moment, and sure enough, it was $210, that one took almost 7 hours..:/


The minor Services are done at 10k, semi major at 20, then minor at 30, and complete major with all fluids changed at 40k, and it just keeps on going like that.


I am pretty sure they do all of what they say because I always wait for the vehicle on every service, and some of the services take anything up to 5 or even 6 hours and I see them drive the car into the service bay, and unfortunately for me, I live a fair way from the dealer so I have to wait each and every time.
Doesn't matter where you go, there is always the chance of them not doing everything they say they will I guess....

[jon3950]

Using the costs from a fixed price deal does skew the results somewhat. For example I have free servicing for the first 100k as part of the corporate package and so will spend less than $2600 in that time.

I have no doubt that a Prado will be a cheaper car to run, its a very different vehicle. A more valid comparison would probably be with your X5 as they are both premium vehicles, but then an X5 wouldn't have got me up the King's Plain Track today, while a Prado probably would. ;)

Cheers,
Jon

[PAT303]

Thanks Wilesy,there has been many people who have done the capped price servicing but have been burnt as many things aren't covered,my vehicle came back without filters being changed,I was told,one of those my mates uncles brother stories that vehicles that are used on the school run weren't serviced but simply checked,my vehicle was a town vehicle.I also cannot see how they can service a vehicle for $210,they are loosing money hand over fist and having it as part of the lease only muddies the water even more. Pat

[scarry]

On the capped price servicing for our Toyota work vans they actually itemise everything that is done,replaced,checked,etc.
If you were really worried it would be easy to tell,just mark a filter with a nikko pen,as we do to the tyres now.

Not long ago we caught them out not rotating tyres but had been charged for it,so anything is possible.

[d2dave]

its a very different vehicle. ;)
Cheers,
Jon

It certainly is. To quote what the managing director of Toyota Australia said sometime last year, "White goods On Wheels"

You are lucky that you did not get a Playdough about 3 years earlier.

My neighbor recently purchased a low mileage, full service history one and not long after it copped a 6K bill for injectors.

Lucky from him he got it from a stealer and it had used car warranty.

Six months later it happens again. Research told him it is a common problem and had he known about it he would not have gone near one.

[Wilesy]

Thanks Wilesy,there has been many people who have done the capped price servicing but have been burnt as many things aren't covered,my vehicle came back without filters being changed,I was told,one of those my mates uncles brother stories that vehicles that are used on the school run weren't serviced but simply checked,my vehicle was a town vehicle.I also cannot see how they can service a vehicle for $210,they are loosing money hand over fist and having it as part of the lease only muddies the water even more. Pat


Totally agree, it's hard to stay on top and make sure everything's done. I'm sure the cost of servicing was in the purchase price somehow anyway.
Never the less, it has been good for me...so far. Fortunately for me I usually just pay for my vehicles, I never borrow to buy a vehicle.

[PAT303]

It's been my experience that it won't cause you any drama,ours went wrong from the start,friends did the same,if you haven't had any problems by now it won't have any.You weren't on the Overlander forum a few years back were you?. Pat

[TerryO]

It always used to annoy the crap out of me when motor mags would compare a D3 with a Prado when they should have been compared to a 100 series likewise a D4 to a Prado when it should have been compared to a 200 series.

A Prado is not the flagship model nor does it have similar specs to either a D3/4 or a 100 or 200 series, so in my opinion why compare the Prado to a Disco. it asks to much of a Prado and underestimates the Disco, again this is in my humble opinion.

[Wilesy]

It's been my experience that it won't cause you any drama,ours went wrong from the start,friends did the same,if you haven't had any problems by now it won't have any.You weren't on the Overlander forum a few years back were you?. Pat


You have a good memory, Yes I was on Overlander a few years back, but migrated to 4x4 Action and was appointed Moderator shortly thereafter which made me spend a lot more time there. I said a brief hello to Overlander and 4x4 Action members on my introduction thread.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/introductions/212926-wilesy-building.html


I intend spending a bit of time here learning about my new RRS as most people here probably know much more than me at this stage, if you need to know about Toyotas or Nissan Patrols (I owned 8 new Patrols) I could help, but LR's I know limited knowledge on, not owning one for more than 10 years and so much has changed so hopefully I will learn something here.

[PAT303]

It always used to annoy the crap out of me when motor mags would compare a D3 with a Prado when they should have been compared to a 100 series likewise a D4 to a Prado when it should have been compared to a 200 series.

A Prado is not the flagship model nor does it have similar specs to either a D3/4 or a 100 or 200 series, so in my opinion why compare the Prado to a Disco. it asks to much of a Prado and underestimates the Disco, again this is in my humble opinion.

The Prado should be compared to the Pajero and Jeep,the Jeep wins by a mile. Pat

[nat_89]

I find this thread such an interesting read, especially coming from people who haven't owned a particular vehicle, only test drove one or was told by a mate.

Anyway, let's get a few things into prospective, the D4 and the Prado 150 have about a 15-20k difference in price, and IMHO the D4 is a closer comparison to the LC200 rather the Prado, that's to begin with.

Amongst many other 4x4's I have owned, though these seem relevant to this conversation, I have owned the Disco 1 V8 for 100k the LC100V8 for 200k, the Range Rover Vogue for 80k and currently the Prado 150 diesel with 100k on the clock, all purchased brand new at the time.


I usually travel about 70k per annum. I also own a BMW X5 M-Sport which I also drive on weekends, hence the reason the Prado only has 100k after 2 years of driving, though not really relevant to this conversation.

To be clear, I have no bias toward any brand, I buy what I like at the time, what I feel is reasonable value for money and what fits into the current budget so hopefully my opinion has a little validity.

Having said that, I have just ordered a Range Rover SportTDV6 which will be arriving in March and I intend on keeping my Prado also because I think it's a great car and has never let me down.

When purchasing a vehicle, everyone's needs and expectations are different, the budget you have, your intentions of how long you intend keeping the vehicle, your usual driving requirements etc.

In my particular case, I purchase the vehicle, Service it regularly according to the book and dispose of it after about 3 or 4 years, if I intended keeping it long term maybe I would do a few things differently, but I don't.

In the case of the Services between the Prado and the D4, I can only comment on what the Prado costs me and what I have paid to date.

I purchased the vehicle in January 2013 and with all Toyotas had at no extra cost the capped price servicing included in the purchase. It has cost me to date and all up to 100k, $2600 according to all of my receipts in total for all Services including a full set of brakes replacement at 70k. (Plus a new set of tyres, BFG At's @ 75k not included) That's 10 dealer Services. Pretty cheap Servicing in my book.

The vehicle is comfortable enough, has a fuel tank (TwinTanks) which allows me to travel 1300klm's between drinks and I get an average of according to the computer 9.2 litres per 100 klm's on average. Has reasonable power for a 3.0 litre diesel and the fit and finish are above average. Off road ability is reasonable and beyond most drivers abilities anyway. And just quietly, I always drive it as though I stole it....

Let me say that not one thing has broken since purchase, not even a bulb, so let's get a few things into prospective, they are a nice 4x4 and it does what it's meant to do so let's not bash the Prado too much, it maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but neither is the D4 so let's be a little fair, and neither is the price difference.

It just gets up my nose a little when people say I wouldn't own one for any money all based on what a mate said or they have just driven it a few times, if that was the case, and most LR owners would agree, that no-one would buy a LR if you read every story and believed everything which was said....Having said what I have just said, I won't even go down the conversation track of what went wrong with my Disco and how much it cost me to keep it on the road, it would make most people here cringe....and it never even saw a dirt road..

I can certainly comment on the Prado 150 as i have owned on and your right there isn't really that much wrong with the Prados, they are just a typical Toyota product with the perception of long term reliability and go anywhere ability, but there is not special about them they dont really excel in any area they just do everything okay. Yes they have a long range fuel tank and yes there comfortable and not to bad on fuel either but theres nothing special about them. They dont bring a smile to my face like the D4 does every time i drive it i just have a grin or a feeling inside that makes you happy its hard to explain but i find the D4 just does everything so well.

And to date 35000kms in 11months not one issue at all to speak of nothing!! As for the servicing costs my Prado had the capped price servicing that only goes to 60000kms so maybe your lucky to get yours up to 100000kms, my D4 is under the corporate program so i have no idea what the costs are surrounding it.

As for the drive away pricing if you compare a D4 HSE against a Prado Kakadu there actually is only a few grand difference in the price. Yes when you compare the TDV6 against the GXL Prado the difference is quite big but up in the higher spec models the gap gets a lot smaller.

I have also had a BMW X5 40d and it was a great car drove beautifully but really only good for highway driving no off road ability plus the lack of spare was a bit of an issue aswell also i found it a little bit rough out where i am in QLD.

Yes Toyota do make a great product and i did like the Prado whilst we had it definitely great the long range tanks and the seats were all very comfy. But one drive in the D4 and it just brings a smile to your face the way it does everything the way it accelerates the beautiful sound from the stereo the way it just eats up so much stuff in the back area and just how beautiful it steers and how nice the seating position is, we just love it!! I cant explain it there is just something infectious about the D4 that makes you feel special when you drive it i love it every time i get in it, you just put your foot down it squats down and just takes off it is such a beautiful engine and i love the sound to!! Yes i would love an extra 70L of fuel but that minor thing is easy to get over when it does everything else so well. Its my first of what i expect to be many many Land Rovers!!

For $60k the Prado GXL is a great practical all round car and doesn't really do anything wrong it just isn't a D4 :wasntme:

[Wilesy]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I sounded my wife out in respect to a D4 and she wouldn't have a bar of it because she said it looked like an ambulance, so I guess everyone has different taste.
She prefers her 911 Carrera, go figure. Then again, she loves the look of my new RRS, so she does have some good taste, she married me didn't she?...


I personally love the look of the Prado, some people hate them, all in the individuals eyes I suppose.


I guess also I am a little tainted as my first Disco spent so much time with the dealer it soured my opinion somewhat and it's a hard thing to dismiss..


Once again, everyone has different experiences, likes and dislikes.


My son in law has just bought a WRX, he loves it, and if you gave it to me I wouldn't drive it....I think it's the ugliest car on the road, but that's just me.


I actually wanted a LC200 but I just couldn't seem to wrap my head around the looks of them after the LC100 I had, as price wasn't a determinating factor and I preferred the look of the Prado.
Unfortunately for me, the look of anything I buy usually outweighs the function to a small degree.
I know, I know..but that's always been me.


I am glad the D4 puts a smile on your face, and that is what it's all about.

[BMKal]

I suppose that I've had as good an opportunity to compare Prado's with Disco's as anyone.

Since 2001, I've had the following (company supplied) vehicles. 1 x Prado 90 Series (diesel), 3 x Prado 120 Series (V6 petrol), 1 x Prado 120 Series (diesel) and 1 x Prado 150 Series (diesel). All of these were manual gearbox (the last three were 6 speed, the rest were 5 speed). The first four were when I was based at Kambalda - they spent most of their life on bitumen roads with only a little dirt road work and general mine site stuff (crawling over a gold heap leach operation and around the pits a bit). The last two (the diesels) were when I was based at Nullagine - and spent virtually their entire life on dirt roads, mostly pretty rough surfaces, and saw bitumen only occasionally when I went into town (Newman).

During the same period, my private vehicles were a Ford F100 (with a Chev V8 diesel in it), a Discovery 1 (V8 petrol auto), a Discovery 2 (Td5 diesel manual - which my son still owns an uses as his daily drive) and now the Discovery 4 (MY2011 2.7 litre TdV6 six speed auto).

As others have said - the Prado is not a bad vehicle. Does everything that you expect it to do, but does not really excite you. Nor does it excel in any area.

I can't really comment about the maintenance cost comparison, as the Prado's were all company maintained. On reliability though, none of these vehicles has ever let me down, other than a steering rod failure on the 90 Series Prado, and a fan belt on the same vehicle which kept it off the road for a couple of days (Goldfields Toyota did not carry a fan belt for this model in stock :o:o:o).

Of the Prado's - the 90 Series was by far the most capable off road, but still could not match the Disco 1. The 120 Series Prado was always my favourite, especially with the petrol V6 engine. On regular trips between Kalgoorlie and Perth, these vehicles did it in comfort and with plenty of "squirt" when you wanted it. But - I was glad to have a company fuel card. They are by no means an economical vehicle (about the same as the V8 Disco 1 ;)). Off road though, the 120 Series is pretty "ordinary". I remember getting stuck on a track over the heap leach at work one day that any decent 4Wd should have been able to do with ease. To prove it to the people at work (who extracted the customary "carton" from me for having to be towed out), I took the D1 out to work the next day and drove through the same spot without even needing to select low range. :D

Comfort wise, I would generally say that every model Prado falls behind the equivalent model (year / vintage) Discovery, with the exception that the 120 Series Prado is at least as comfortable as the D2 on long highway cruising. Once off road however - there is no comparison - the Disco wins hands down.

The Prado that least impressed me was the newest - the 150 Series. I would rather a good 120 Series than a 150 Series any day of the week. The newer model has become bloated. it suffers significantly in dirt road handling (the 120 Series will kill it any day) and the finish is even more cheap and nasty than previous models, with bits falling off it everywhere especially on corrugated dirt roads. I wouldn't recommend one of these to anyone. (Whoever invented that bloody horrible plastic spare wheel cover on these things needs to be shot ;)).

Probably the most noticeable area to me where the Prado simply cannot compete with the Discovery is in dust sealing, particularly around the rear tailgate door. I have yet to see a Prado where the dust does not pour in around this door when travelling on dirt roads - doesn't matter which model, they are all shockers for it.

By comparison, the Discovery 1 did leak a little bit (still not as bad as a Prado), the Discovery 2 was almost clear of dust leakage around the tailgate, and the D4 simply doesn't leak ANY dust into the cab at all - from anywhere. A little while back I was on a dirt road trip with two families in NEW Toyotas - a 200 Series Cruiser and a 150 Series Prado. When we stopped in Norseman, the women from both Toyotas were complaining about the amount of dust in the vehicles and over their luggage (and the Prado was REALLY bad) - none of them could believe how spotless the interior of my D4 was. :D

I'm not a Toyota hater .................... before the Prado's I had an 80 Series GXL Landcruiser, turbo diesel manual. This was one of the best vehicles I've ever had and would gladly have another if I could find one in good condition. But I haven't been impressed with any model Toyota since. I even test drove the new FJ Cruiser before buying the D4 as I was offered a very attractive deal on one of these through work. Now that really is a piece of crap - but it's designed for Americans, so I suppose understandable. ;)

I suppose my preference for 4WD's is pretty obvious from what I've spent my own money on ..................... after having had plenty of opportunity to compare the alternatives. ;)

[PAT303]

The biggest problem with the 150 is the motor,the D4D just doesn't cut it compared to the Jeep,Paj and D4,the auto is a shocker also,the first thing you think is it's broken,and the cooler doesn't provide enough cooling. Pat

[nat_89]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I sounded my wife out in respect to a D4 and she wouldn't have a bar of it because she said it looked like an ambulance, so I guess everyone has different taste.
She prefers her 911 Carrera, go figure. Then again, she loves the look of my new RRS, so she does have some good taste, she married me didn't she?...


I personally love the look of the Prado, some people hate them, all in the individuals eyes I suppose.


I guess also I am a little tainted as my first Disco spent so much time with the dealer it soured my opinion somewhat and it's a hard thing to dismiss..


Once again, everyone has different experiences, likes and dislikes.


My son in law has just bought a WRX, he loves it, and if you gave it to me I wouldn't drive it....I think it's the ugliest car on the road, but that's just me.


I actually wanted a LC200 but I just couldn't seem to wrap my head around the looks of them after the LC100 I had, as price wasn't a determinating factor and I preferred the look of the Prado.
Unfortunately for me, the look of anything I buy usually outweighs the function to a small degree.
I know, I know..but that's always been me.


I am glad the D4 puts a smile on your face, and that is what it's all about.

I personally love the look of the D4 my partner doesn't like it so much, i love the new RRS but when it came to optioning an SDV6 HSE up to what i wanted i was looking at an extra $55k on what i could get the D4 HSE for so i decided that whilst i did love it very much and the new shape is damn gorgeous i couldn't justify the extra $$.

Plus the extra room and space also attracted me to the D4 aswell, I dont mind the new updated look Prado 150 they look pretty nice in my eyes ill agree.

My partner dead 110% wanted the 200 series cruiser to, coming from a family of always owning cruisers she had it in her mind a Sahara was what she wanted so we off and test driving for the day 200 series then also Jeep GC the VW Toureg the updated interior Prado then back to the 200 series and finally after getting cranky driving cars i said look lets just have a quick drive of the D4 and after 5 minutes behind the wheel she said scrap the 200 series i love this and thats what we got!!

But she still not keen on the exterior but i said well you spend most of the time on the inside so thats the main thing ahaha i think its slowly growing on her!!

[LandyAndy]

My sister came over for a visit yesterday,she is from sidanee and they have a Playdoh and a BMW soft roader.
The D4 really impressed her,she said its huge compared to her cars,heaps more room inside too.
Andrew

[PAT303]

Trouble is you can't have nice outside curves with good interior room,it doesn't happen,the L322 RR's are about as curvy as you can get without being cramped,D3-4's are tardis like in regards to interior space. Pat

[Epic pooh]

That's about the size of it Pat ... as a mate of mine put it (about his old junker commodore wagon vs newer curvy wagons), "we like square cars".

[d2dave]

I personally love the look of the Prado, some people hate them, all in the individuals eyes I suppose.


I reckon the front of the recent ones is one of the most ugly 4x4 made.

[BMKal]

I reckon the front of the recent ones is one of the most ugly 4x4 made.

You're right Dave. I get the impression that Toyota is trying (with very little success) to make the front of the Prado appear "Jeep like". ;)

Either that, or they've recruited the chief designer from SsangYong - his specialty to date has just been to design ugly cars. :eek:

[Epic pooh]

Ugly or not, the side hinged back door (on various) is a dumb design that I absolutely can't stand.

[BMKal]

Ugly or not, the side hinged back door (on various) is a dumb design that I absolutely can't stand.

I don't mind them if it's done properly and they are correctly sealed. Got quite used to it with the number of Prado's I've had, plus the D1 and D2.

The last vehicle I had with a proper upper & lower tailgate was the 80 Series GXL - and now the D4. One advantage of the side opening door is that, if you have a fridge mounted in the back on a fridge slide, the fridge actually slides out clear of the vehicle and you can stand alongside it while loading / unloading.

But I must admit I do like the tailgate on the D4 - I suppose it's just a matter of what you get used to.

If you want to find something really annoying - try a Toyota FJ Cruiser, where the side opening door swings to the left. :eek: Toyota designed it for the yank market and were too bloody lazy to offer a right hand drive option. That's only one of the reasons why I never gave one of these any serious consideration after test driving.

[PAT303]

Ugly or not, the side hinged back door (on various) is a dumb design that I absolutely can't stand.

It was also the cause of a world wide recall as the strut wouldn't lock and the door would close with enough force to break bones,Tojo's fix,put a warning sticker on it . Pat

[Epic pooh]

I never liked the one on my d1 or defender. My sister had one on a rav which was rubbish and I was reminded by a Paj how much I don't like them. Stuff falling out, door swinging at me if not latches properly and my d1 used to be annoying with some trailers ... Like styling each to his own but give me a proper split boot like disco, rr and lc any day !

[scarry]

But I must admit I do like the tailgate on the D4 - I suppose it's just a matter of what you get used to.


The design of the upper and lower tailgate is excellent and very well thought out,way better than anything else around.

Hope they don't change it to one lift up assembly in the next model.

The D2 type is handy for loading,unloading,but can be dangerous if the vehicle is parked on a slope,it can slam shut with a lot of force as Pat said as well.

[BMKal]

The design of the upper and lower tailgate is excellent and very well thought out,way better than anything else around.

Hope they don't change it to one lift up assembly in the next model.

The D2 type is handy for loading,unloading,but can be dangerous if the vehicle is parked on a slope,it can slam shut with a lot of force as Pat said as well.

Definitely agree with you there. I don't like anything with a single piece lifting tailgate (with the exception of small hatchbacks, which is what I believe this style of opening is designed for).

[d2dave]

The rear door is the one and probably only thing I hate on my D1 and D2.

Two 4x4's ago I had a RR clasic and I loved the lift and drop tailgate.

[TerryO]

Personally I prefer the door on the D1 and D2 much better than the split unit on the D3/4.

First off it gives you a place to carry the spare without the hassle of it being under the vehicle which in turn would allow a decent sized fuel tank to be fitted standard.

It also allows you to reach right in to behind the rear seat easier to either put things in or get things out which is harder with a split door like on the D3/4.

Each to their own though.

[Wilesy]

The one thing I hate about the Toyota, is the choice of interior colours is grey, grey or if you don't like that you can always go grey. They do offer an ivory fabric though good luck getting one under 3-4 months.


When you buy a Toyota you expect to get it immediately, which is usually the case because options are pretty standard, if you want more options, go up a model, that's it., and if you want something out of the box, the dealer wants to renegotiate the price of the trade in again and again whilst waiting for the delivery.


When we ordered the RRS, the dealer was up front on how long it would take ( 3 months) and allowed us 10,000 klm's before he would consider altering any figures, which I think is pretty fair.


I absolutely love the look of the Almond interior of the D4, I think it looks so classy, which is why I chose that colour on my RRS.


When I looked at the LC200 Sahara before buying the Prado, the only choice was grey, (or black maybe, not quite sure, I forget) so I was not interested. If you intend spending 125k on a fully optioned vehicle, you should be able to get the interior colour you like without only one, or two choices.


However, my wife prefers black, which is what's in her 911, so there's no accounting for good taste...I don't like the black interior, but we are all different I suppose.


One thing Land rover does which is excellent is giving the choices of options and accessories you can adopt making your vehicle truly individual, well much more than Toyota does anyway. Some may be very over the top, but that's Ok, you don't have to choose them all.


Just my thoughts anyway.

[nat_89]

The one thing I hate about the Toyota, is the choice of interior colours is grey, grey or if you don't like that you can always go grey. They do offer an ivory fabric though good luck getting one under 3-4 months.


When you buy a Toyota you expect to get it immediately, which is usually the case because options are pretty standard, if you want more options, go up a model, that's it., and if you want something out of the box, the dealer wants to renegotiate the price of the trade in again and again whilst waiting for the delivery.


When we ordered the RRS, the dealer was up front on how long it would take ( 3 months) and allowed us 10,000 klm's before he would consider altering any figures, which I think is pretty fair.


I absolutely love the look of the Almond interior of the D4, I think it looks so classy, which is why I chose that colour on my RRS.


When I looked at the LC200 Sahara before buying the Prado, the only choice was grey, (or black maybe, not quite sure, I forget) so I was not interested. If you intend spending 125k on a fully optioned vehicle, you should be able to get the interior colour you like without only one, or two choices.


However, my wife prefers black, which is what's in her 911, so there's no accounting for good taste...I don't like the black interior, but we are all different I suppose.


One thing Land rover does which is excellent is giving the choices of options and accessories you can adopt making your vehicle truly individual, well much more than Toyota does anyway. Some may be very over the top, but that's Ok, you don't have to choose them all.


Just my thoughts anyway.

Well myself i generally only buy White cars with Black interior as i love the darker colours i find myself it doesn't show up as many marks so i like to go that way. Its certainly easy with Toyota and many other companies you basically have interior exterior diesel or petrol and auto or manual in their lower specs and if the dealer your at doesn't have one it can be maybe a week or 2 to get one off another dealer which is awesome!!

Thats one thing that ****s me off about european cars LR included there is so many options and different choices that it makes it so hard to get the exact car you want off the showroom floor and i really hate to have the suspense of waiting!! I wish on the higher spec models they would make a lot more simple things standard as opposed to options trim it down a fair bit.

I was lucky with my D4 HSE that Townsville had one with Elec steering column and Ediff which were 2 options i wanted, i would have also liked the bigger stereo and a couple of smaller items but forgot them as i didn't want to wait and everything else was all pretty good.

I do get annoyed how they say oh you can only have this colour interior with this colour wood trim no if I'm spending $125k i should be able to say i want this trim with this interior but ahwell i guess its a small thing! HAHA i will agree that Toyotas interiors are very grey i think in the Sahara there is only black or cream pretty much all you can choose.

[Robmacca]

I as well have had Toyota's all my driving life. I started with an old 60's wagon when I was still young and free and this was an excellent touring vehicle and I covered a fair bit of Aus in it, from there was a "brief" moment into a Subaru L series wagon, then into what I too agree was the last of the good Toyota touring vehicles - 80's wagon.... from this point on I got married and as the missus can't really drive an Manual, I had to change over to my 1st Auto 4WD - 105's TDi Landcruiser (last of the Solid front end 4wd's). During this time we were raising our 3 kids.... About this time I had the opportunity to do a Novated Lease through work, so I sold the 105's (Nice but heavy on fuel) and bought the current 150's that we have now and it's the missus daily driver and our current tourer..... For me as my work vehicle, I bought a little Vitara and got into this and was surprised at its offroad ability for a IFS vehicle. From there the mods started and I've still got it after 8yrs and it's great for exploring through the bush, etc. With the missus driving the Prado, & the Vitara being a bit too modified as a daily driver, I bought a '03 Navara TDi D22 Dualcab which I had the idea to use for beach holiday camping, etc.... it was ok (cargo space was great, rough riding though) but became too small in the rear seating area & this is when I thought I would go way out left field and try out a LR Disco Tdi..... I haven't had it for long but LOVE it.....

About this time I've started hearing Injector/Engine issues with the current 150's. I've got a mate who's 150's just recently had his engine (127,000kms) fail 3 days into their VHC trip.... This has given me a great concern for ours and I've also heard that Toyota are going to announce a RECALL on Prado from 2006 onwards for the injector seals, etc, but not for the 150's.... yet.... I'm hoping that with the 2 fuel filters; only use BP Diesel Ulitmate, that we may be OK, but I will look into getting the injectors replaced soon as a safety measure.... Our's has now done 3 remote trips and hasn't given us any major issues, though we did have the RHS front inner guard crack (repaired under warranty) and a ALT failed on a last trip (also replaced under warranty)....

With us wanting to do more remote touring I thought it was time to start researching for our next tourer. Not looking to buy just yet, I thought of a Defender might be a suitable vehicle, but do I go Old or New??? To my surprise, I've ended up with a '96 Defender 110 Tdi (currently un-reg) - thought being... that I will get it registered and drive it for a year or so to see if I reckon it will be suitable for us as a touring vehicle....

Sorry for the long dripple, but it's interesting to read others experiences with other makes and I never thought I would ever own a Landrover, little alone owing 2 of them !!.
One advantage in owning a Toyota is there is usually Toyota Service Centres everywhere in Australia or at least someone that knows about them..... Not sure I can say the same about Landrover and this is one of the reasons I went with the older & more basic Defender.... Time will tell though.....

rob


I suppose that I've had as good an opportunity to compare Prado's with Disco's as anyone.

Since 2001, I've had the following (company supplied) vehicles. 1 x Prado 90 Series (diesel), 3 x Prado 120 Series (V6 petrol), 1 x Prado 120 Series (diesel) and 1 x Prado 150 Series (diesel). All of these were manual gearbox (the last three were 6 speed, the rest were 5 speed). The first four were when I was based at Kambalda - they spent most of their life on bitumen roads with only a little dirt road work and general mine site stuff (crawling over a gold heap leach operation and around the pits a bit). The last two (the diesels) were when I was based at Nullagine - and spent virtually their entire life on dirt roads, mostly pretty rough surfaces, and saw bitumen only occasionally when I went into town (Newman).

During the same period, my private vehicles were a Ford F100 (with a Chev V8 diesel in it), a Discovery 1 (V8 petrol auto), a Discovery 2 (Td5 diesel manual - which my son still owns an uses as his daily drive) and now the Discovery 4 (MY2011 2.7 litre TdV6 six speed auto).

As others have said - the Prado is not a bad vehicle. Does everything that you expect it to do, but does not really excite you. Nor does it excel in any area.

I can't really comment about the maintenance cost comparison, as the Prado's were all company maintained. On reliability though, none of these vehicles has ever let me down, other than a steering rod failure on the 90 Series Prado, and a fan belt on the same vehicle which kept it off the road for a couple of days (Goldfields Toyota did not carry a fan belt for this model in stock :o:o:o).

Of the Prado's - the 90 Series was by far the most capable off road, but still could not match the Disco 1. The 120 Series Prado was always my favourite, especially with the petrol V6 engine. On regular trips between Kalgoorlie and Perth, these vehicles did it in comfort and with plenty of "squirt" when you wanted it. But - I was glad to have a company fuel card. They are by no means an economical vehicle (about the same as the V8 Disco 1 ;)). Off road though, the 120 Series is pretty "ordinary". I remember getting stuck on a track over the heap leach at work one day that any decent 4Wd should have been able to do with ease. To prove it to the people at work (who extracted the customary "carton" from me for having to be towed out), I took the D1 out to work the next day and drove through the same spot without even needing to select low range. :D

Comfort wise, I would generally say that every model Prado falls behind the equivalent model (year / vintage) Discovery, with the exception that the 120 Series Prado is at least as comfortable as the D2 on long highway cruising. Once off road however - there is no comparison - the Disco wins hands down.

The Prado that least impressed me was the newest - the 150 Series. I would rather a good 120 Series than a 150 Series any day of the week. The newer model has become bloated. it suffers significantly in dirt road handling (the 120 Series will kill it any day) and the finish is even more cheap and nasty than previous models, with bits falling off it everywhere especially on corrugated dirt roads. I wouldn't recommend one of these to anyone. (Whoever invented that bloody horrible plastic spare wheel cover on these things needs to be shot ;)).

Probably the most noticeable area to me where the Prado simply cannot compete with the Discovery is in dust sealing, particularly around the rear tailgate door. I have yet to see a Prado where the dust does not pour in around this door when travelling on dirt roads - doesn't matter which model, they are all shockers for it.

By comparison, the Discovery 1 did leak a little bit (still not as bad as a Prado), the Discovery 2 was almost clear of dust leakage around the tailgate, and the D4 simply doesn't leak ANY dust into the cab at all - from anywhere. A little while back I was on a dirt road trip with two families in NEW Toyotas - a 200 Series Cruiser and a 150 Series Prado. When we stopped in Norseman, the women from both Toyotas were complaining about the amount of dust in the vehicles and over their luggage (and the Prado was REALLY bad) - none of them could believe how spotless the interior of my D4 was. :D

I'm not a Toyota hater .................... before the Prado's I had an 80 Series GXL Landcruiser, turbo diesel manual. This was one of the best vehicles I've ever had and would gladly have another if I could find one in good condition. But I haven't been impressed with any model Toyota since. I even test drove the new FJ Cruiser before buying the D4 as I was offered a very attractive deal on one of these through work. Now that really is a piece of crap - but it's designed for Americans, so I suppose understandable. ;)

I suppose my preference for 4WD's is pretty obvious from what I've spent my own money on ..................... after having had plenty of opportunity to compare the alternatives. ;)

[PAT303]

Rob,sorry to burst your and everyone else's bubble but the Toyota service centers won't fix your vehicle,people have the idea that have a supply of parts and equipment to get you going again but all they do is ring a truck and get it floated to a main service dealer,people buy Toyota's in the belief that they can get help everywhere,you break down north of Port Headland and it doesn't matter what you drive you are waiting for parts or going on a truck,I know because I lived their. Pat

[BMKal]

Not just Port Hedland. ;)

The Kalgoorlie Toyota dealership is huge - I'm pretty sure the largest in the state outside Perth (hard to tell these days because they have expanded so much lately and are now agents for many other brands, like Jeep, Kia etc.).

It's also well known around here that they send quite a few late model Toyotas (particularly 200 Series) off to Perth on a truck. ;)

A while back I needed a fan belt for a diesel Prado (same engine / fan belt as a HiLux). There are literally thousands of Toyotas running around the Goldfields with this same engine. But they did not carry the fan belt in stock - I had to wait for them to get one up overnight. I can get Land Rover parts delivered in the same timeframe - so where's the advantage, Toyota ???

Must admit - when I was working local to Kalgoorlie and had work Prado's, Goldfields Toyota always did the servicing on them, and I was always pleased with what they did (certainly can't say the same for the Ford / Nissan dealership in town). ;)

[Tombie]

The true definition of irony...

Land Cruiser - Tanks that allow you to drive forever: Seats that allow you to sit in for 60 minutes

Land Rover - Tanks that will limit how far you can drive: Seats that you can sit in for days

[Wilesy]

The true definition of irony...

Land Cruiser - Tanks that allow you to drive forever: Seats that allow you to sit in for 60 minutes

Land Rover - Tanks that will limit how far you can drive: Seats that you can sit in for days


Absolutely agree.

[Epic pooh]

I think you nailed it there Tombie.

[rar110]

I have 'parchment' or cream/beige interior in the FFRR. I was looking for a dark interior. However, I am liking the light colour.

As expected any marks show up clearly, which prompts me to do something. Thankfully it's easy to clean up marks on the leather trim with baby wipes.

[ytt105]

The true definition of irony...

Land Cruiser - Tanks that allow you to drive forever: Seats that allow you to sit in for 60 minutes

Land Rover - Tanks that will limit how far you can drive: Seats that you can sit in for days

Tombie
You obviously haven't driven an S model Disco 3.

First uncomfortable seats I've sat in for a long time.

5 Range Rovers, 4 BMWs, millions of Alfas.

Anyone have any HSE seats for sale?
Regards

[d2dave]

A while back I needed a fan belt for a diesel Prado (same engine / fan belt as a HiLux). ;)

I was talking to someone two days ago whilst on the Tallarook trip.

He was telling me he new someone that had to wait three for a Toyota fan belt from a remote dealer.

[Homestar]

Land Cruiser - Tanks that allow you to drive forever: Seats that allow you to sit in for 60 minutes


Found out how true that was yesterday. I'm normally hacking about in the work Commodore, but I'm doing a different job for a couple of weeks for the company and had to take a base model hilux accross the city yesterday to do a pickup. 45 minutes each way and I could hardy move when I got out of it. A milk crate would have been more comfortable.

I **** and moan about the Commodore but it's a friggin limo compared to a Hilux. Goes up and down some good tracks quite well too - I've probably taken the old Dunny Door further than a lot of Hilux drivers too.... Company cars will go anywhere....:angel: Only got it for 1 more week, then I get a dreaded Craptiva.... :(

[Wilesy]

I sold my dual cab SR5 4 litre petrol hilux 4x4 to buy the Prado, the hilux is probably the most uncomfortable car I I have ever owned.

[BMKal]

then I get a dreaded Craptiva.... :(

You lucky, lucky fella you...................... :D

Have known quite a few people over here who have bought these things. Without exception, every single one of them has got rid of them as soon as they could. ;)

They've even managed to taint what might be an otherwise acceptable vehicle. I asked a couple of these people why not buy a new Holden Colorado. General response is that they would never waste their money on any Holden "SUV" ever again.

[Homestar]

You lucky, lucky fella you...................... :D

Have known quite a few people over here who have bought these things. Without exception, every single one of them has got rid of them as soon as they could. ;)

They've even managed to taint what might be an otherwise acceptable vehicle. I asked a couple of these people why not buy a new Holden Colorado. General response is that they would never waste their money on any Holden "SUV" ever again.

They are truly a horrid vehicle. No choice though - it is my new company car. I've got one of the last Commodores in the fleet, they have all been replaced by the Captiva's. They have gone that way to save money. They are on a fixed cost, 4 year lease, so the company doesn't care if they crap themselves as we just get a lease supplied hire car while it is being fixed. Out of the 40 odd in Melbourne we have, I have heard a lot have had major issues that have needed fixing. Oh well, how bad can a fully paid for car relly be? It comes with a fuel card, sat nav, reversing camera, sunroof. It is the diesel model and the engine seems to have enough poke for the size of the car, but that is after all - bloody tiny.....

[DeanoH]

Strange that in a thread about cost of ownership no ones yet bought up depreciation ?

Back in 2004 myself and three mates all bought new 4WD's. I bought the last of the D2a's and sold it last year, 10 years on with 270K's, for around $10K. Mate A bought a 4.2l Patrol wagon, will never sell it and reckons it's worth around $30+K and he's probably right. Agreed value insurance of $34K. It's done around the 250K mark. Mate B also bought a Patrol but a three litre, it's in mint condition, always garaged and serviced with 80K on the clock. He'll be lucky if he can get $5-10K. Each of these vehicles cost around $55K new.

Mate C bought a Landcruiser wagon, last of the 100 series, top of the line with all the goodies, iTD, auto, air bags, sat nav etc. etc. Cost him $90+K back then. He also sold it last year, in very good condition for ................. $62K. :o:D. He was so pleased he bought another one (Sahara).

Deano :)

[Tombie]

Crazy... Buying a vehicle for its resale..

Drive a vehicle I'm not happy with for 3-5 years because I don't want to lose as much money as I may lose driving something I'm really happy with and enjoy.

Or ironic... Selling a vehicle that's in "excellent condition", losing 30% of its value and buying another new version....

Capitalism is alive and well it seems...

[Tombie]

As a comparison I had a look back...

Brand New D2, Paid $50k in 2000. Sold in 2014 for $10k

Brand New Defender, $54k in 2001 Sold in 2008 for $34k

Current D4... $78k in 2011 - insured for $64k 3 years on.

Brand new D90 - Lets say around the $52k mark - value: Priceless...
My wife smiles every time she sets her eyes on it or drives it...


No depreciation numbers factor in the accessories added.

Nor do they factor in the fun, adventure, memories, comfort, driving enjoyment... These are worth more than any trade-in.

:angel:

[jon3950]

Crazy... Buying a vehicle for its resale..

Drive a vehicle I'm not happy with for 3-5 years because I don't want to lose as much money as I may lose driving something I'm really happy with and enjoy.

Or ironic... Selling a vehicle that's in "excellent condition", losing 30% of its value and buying another new version....

Capitalism is alive and well it seems...

I'm with you. I like driving. Pretty much everything I do recreationally involves driving something, so I buy cars that I enjoy driving.

Life's too short to drive a Prado...

Cheers,
Jon

[nat_89]

I'm with you. I like driving. Pretty much everything I do recreationally involves driving something, so I buy cars that I enjoy driving.

Life's too short to drive a Prado...

Cheers,
Jon

Ill agree there i buy vehicles i love driving and dont pay to much attention to depreciation!!

But from what I've seen it appears the current D4s are really holding their value over the long term quite well!!

[TerryO]

I reckon the last of the 100 series TDI's, especially the Sahara's, was one of those exceptional vehicles that most people look back on fondly and many often regret selling, especially if they brought a 200 series.

Personally I reckon they are a very nice bit of kit that also turned out to be a good investment, can't take that away from them no matter how parochial one is.

As for 4.2 Patrols, the good thing about them is they are like an old Isuzu powered County, they just keep going forever and because that is the only diesel Patrol that has ever done that they have become iconic, even if they are the slowest heap of noisy smoke belching camel dung I have ever had the misfortune to follow on a trip.

[PAT303]

Strange that in a thread about cost of ownership no ones yet bought up depreciation ?

Back in 2004 myself and three mates all bought new 4WD's. I bought the last of the D2a's and sold it last year, 10 years on with 270K's, for around $10K. Mate A bought a 4.2l Patrol wagon, will never sell it and reckons it's worth around $30+K and he's probably right. Agreed value insurance of $34K. It's done around the 250K mark. Mate B also bought a Patrol but a three litre, it's in mint condition, always garaged and serviced with 80K on the clock. He'll be lucky if he can get $5-10K. Each of these vehicles cost around $55K new.

Mate C bought a Landcruiser wagon, last of the 100 series, top of the line with all the goodies, iTD, auto, air bags, sat nav etc. etc. Cost him $90+K back then. He also sold it last year, in very good condition for ................. $62K. :o:D. He was so pleased he bought another one (Sahara).

Deano :)

The reason both the 4.2 patrol and FTE 100 series hold their money so well is because the ZD30 and D4D models are in many ways a step back,the D3-D4 in comparison are a huge leap forward compared to the D1-D2 which hurts their re-sale,personally I don't care,like posted earlier buying a vehicle that has good trade in just so you can start paying off another one when you do is idiotic. Pat

[Wilesy]

As a comparison I had a look back...

Brand New D2, Paid $50k in 2000. Sold in 2014 for $10k

Brand New Defender, $54k in 2001 Sold in 2008 for $34k

Current D4... $78k in 2011 - insured for $64k 3 years on.

Brand new D90 - Lets say around the $52k mark - value: Priceless...
My wife smiles every time she sets her eyes on it or drives it...


No depreciation numbers factor in the accessories added.

Nor do they factor in the fun, adventure, memories, comfort, driving enjoyment... These are worth more than any trade-in.

:angel:


What a vehicle is insured for is nothing like what it is actually worth, and the value is what someone is actually prepared to pay for it, not what someone advertises what they want for it as well.


My BMW X5 M-Sport is now nearly 4 years old, now has 70k on the clock I paid $144k drive away in 2011, then insurance document tells me it's insured for $96k, however I traded it in last month and the best I could get for it was $50k...that's on a $130k RRS


My Prado Insurance papers tells me it's insured ATM for $61k (new 68k) and if I believed I would get 61K after 2 years of ownership I would think I would be very lucky..that's not going to happen.


My D1 V8 Auto SE7 with a bunch of extras I purchased for $57k drive away in 1997, sold it (traded) in 1999 for $17,500 which was the best out of 4 dealers I could get...once again, absolutely immaculately presented and looked after with books.


I have no idea on resale values today, it just depends on what you are purchasing at the time and whether you want to sell it privately or through a dealer, and also what oil prices are at the time, when I sold my Disco, no-one wanted to touch a V8 then. I also think it's a lottery and some people just seem to get way much more than I do, or they are telling fibs..


Myself, I couldn't be bothered, I just trade it. Incidentally, each and every car I own is sold looking as though I just purchased it from the showroom with all log books, seriously!


So much you read these days is so much rubbish, even when you look up the value or a vehicle for sale on Carsales.com, try getting the car they have advertised, they will more often than not, tell you that the vehicle you were looking at is sold but direct you to another one just like it but $20k more expensive...... I don't trust any of them.

[jon3950]

I also think it's a lottery and some people just seem to get way much more than I do, or they are telling fibs...

I'm glad I'm not the only one then.


Myself, I couldn't be bothered, I just trade it. Incidentally, each and every car I own is sold looking as though I just purchased it from the showroom with all log books, seriously!.

Same here, except I always buy my vehicles to use them, whatever they are, so although always well maintained they're never pristine.

Although I've always had a thing for Landys, I too used to be a big fan of Toyotas. The early Hi-luxes were a bit of a revelation at the time - well except for the 2.2 diesel, what a dog. They lost me when they brought out the 100 series.

Cheers,
Jon

[PAT303]

The 2.2D Hilux wasn't a dog,a dog is faster. Pat

[chuck]

I just sold a 28month old D4 SDV6SE for $67k

Bought in 2012 for $85K

Lost $18k but picked up nearly $28K in depreciation.

Resale is good if you sell them with warranty.

[Disco4SE]

I just sold a 28month old D4 SDV6SE for $67k

Bought in 2012 for $85K

Lost $18k but picked up nearly $28K in depreciation.

Resale is good if you sell them with warranty.
What did you buy Chuck??

[Homestar]

Just had another 'Toyota' moment while doing an alternate job for the company this week. Earlier on it was a twin cab Hilux, this time it was a single cab Hilux with tray - 4WD.

While towing 1.8 tonnes up a steep hill (out of Lilydale for those that know it), it started raining. Only doing 40KPM in a 60 zone, and the back end starts slipping on me. I back off and it straightens up. Accelerate very carefully up out of the 60 zone into the 80 zone - now doing 55 when it steps out again, but much more violently than before. Lucky there was no one next to me in the other lane, or I would have got them. The tyres on the vehicle are almost new, but the real problem is not much weight over the rear wheels so very low on traction. I can't imagine trying to tow several tonnes with a vehicle like this - it is bloody dangerous. When will Toyota catch up and get into the 70's and have all wheel drive on these things....

Can't imagine how dangerous these things are with 3 tonnes on the back.

Just logged a safety report with the Manager here - He's all in a flap now as he thought it would be safer to tow it with that bucket of poo, rather than my Dunny Door. I know what I would have prefered...

Oh, what a feeling....:no2::no2::no2:

[DeanoH]

What an amazing response to my original question .........

'Strange that in a thread about cost of ownership no ones yet bought up depreciation ?'

In a quite informative thread about 'Long term cost of ownership' I would have thought that after 110 posts the subject of depreciation would have come up and had hoped for a sensible discussion on this issue. Unfortunately this was not the case.

Depreciation is the loss of value of an asset over time and is a real cost to the buyer along with rego, insurance, servicing, tyres, fuel etc.

Statements such as this




Crazy... Buying a vehicle for its resale..


totally ignores the issue (depreciation) and the inference that to consider financial loss as a crazy one I find quite absurd and irrelevant to the consideration of depreciation.

Whilst an individual may not be concerned about the cost of depreciation it is still relevant to the TCO of an asset and it's a shame that bringing this up appears to 'hit such a nerve' .

As for...................


....................... Drive a vehicle I'm not happy with for 3-5 years because I don't want to lose as much money as I may lose driving something I'm really happy with and enjoy.


I can only assume this statement refers to the examples I gave of four people who have happily owned and driven their 4WD's for 10 years or more, 1 Disco, 2 Patrols and 1 Landcruiser. IMO quite arrogant (and incorrect) to assume that (because they're not D4's) the owners have kept their vehicles as they 'had to' to avoid financial loss. If I have misunderstood your thrust here I apologise. :)
In fact the Disco was sold as it was no longer needed as it had been replaced with the larger and more off road capable Oka which is better suited to our needs. The Landcruiser was replaced primarily to tow a 2.5 tonne caravan more easily. The owner of the 4.2l Nissan reckons it's the best 4WD ever invented and he will probably be buried in it. :o The 3l Nissan owner is looking to trade up soon and will probably wish he'd bought the 4.2l when he gets a trade in price.

Are you serious..................


....................... Or ironic... Selling a vehicle that's in "excellent condition", losing 30% of its value and buying another new version....


Strange as it might seem there's 10+ years of automotive development between the last of the 100 series and the current 200 series, plus wear and tear. Improvements in occupant safety and a more powerful motor/better gearbox suited to towing were the main reasons for the upgrade.

Most people would be pleased, no, ecstatic, :D to get a trade in of better than 2/3 of initial purchase price on a 10 year old 4WD.
Then again, if depreciation/trade in value is irrelevant why not just throw the old car away when it's time to upgrade ? :confused:



As for 4.2 Patrols, ....................... the slowest heap of noisy smoke belching camel dung I have ever had the misfortune to follow on a trip.

Haha, my (4.2 Patrol) mate had a real good laugh at this one. He reckons that comparing the old NA 4.2 to his 'enhanced' 4.2 TDi has about the same relevance as comparing his old Series diesel to a V6TDi. :):)
This was just before he expanded on his opinions of "plastic fantastic electronic go carts...........etc. etc" , quite derisory really and not appropriate to a D4 forum. :):D:p

Seriously though, depreciation is a REAL cost and should be treated as such when calculating cost of ownership.



Deano :)

[Graeme]

If the trailer's load was high (tall) or even just concentrated above the axles then perhaps the nose weight reduced too much on the slope, possibly even causing the trailer to become rear-heavy.

[Wilesy]

Just had another 'Toyota' moment while doing an alternate job for the company this week. Earlier on it was a twin cab Hilux, this time it was a single cab Hilux with tray - 4WD.

While towing 1.8 tonnes up a steep hill (out of Lilydale for those that know it), it started raining. Only doing 40KPM in a 60 zone, and the back end starts slipping on me. I back off and it straightens up. Accelerate very carefully up out of the 60 zone into the 80 zone - now doing 55 when it steps out again, but much more violently than before. Lucky there was no one next to me in the other lane, or I would have got them. The tyres on the vehicle are almost new, but the real problem is not much weight over the rear wheels so very low on traction. I can't imagine trying to tow several tonnes with a vehicle like this - it is bloody dangerous. When will Toyota catch up and get into the 70's and have all wheel drive on these things....

Can't imagine how dangerous these things are with 3 tonnes on the back.

Just logged a safety report with the Manager here - He's all in a flap now as he thought it would be safer to tow it with that bucket of poo, rather than my Dunny Door. I know what I would have prefered...

Oh, what a feeling....:no2::no2::no2:


Reading your post brought back so many memories when I had my SR5, you are right, though you do get used to it and drive accordingly.

[Glynhouse]

There is no mention of wether the Hi-lux had any load in the back or not, but with all respect to tow with a single cab tray top if it was unloaded is sort of asking for it -irrespective of brand, include in that any of the Falcodore utes as well, everyone that I know always has a couple of sand bags in the rear corners of all of them unless loaded.

Back to the original question ownership costs, no question it will cost you heaps to own and drive an upmarket vehicle, between the 3 properties around us in the N.T. There are probably 15/20 V8 cruisers (all tray tops), the neighbour is on his 3rd FF Rangie, there is no comparison in the running costs, or the reliability if the are worked.
None of us have a bitumen road within 200klms, and there are no speed limits, while my D3 if much nicer to travel in, I can not keep up with the nephews in their cruisers on give and take unmade roads, and I have no doubts that it will not do the distance in comparison on those tracks.
The only problem with the cruisers is that all of the V8's needed injectors around the 150/200K mark (discounting shockers and brakes) with the exception of the above 4 of our cruisers now have over 200k on them trouble free driven by everyone.

Back to the original question, yes a D3/4 will cost you more, but so will a Merc/BMW compared to a Commodore ! How much extra do you wish to spend on your set of wheels for a lot more comfort and character ?

Standing back !

DD

P.S. None of our 6cyl TD's ever needed injectors, only have one left with over 400k on it still runs fine.

[Homestar]

If the trailer's load was high (tall) or even just concentrated above the axles then perhaps the nose weight reduced too much on the slope, possibly even causing the trailer to become rear-heavy.

Not a high load - it was a Dingo loader on a trailer, but after reading your post, I realised the trenching attachment wasn't on the front of the trailer like it usually is, so it was missing a good 100Kg in front of the axles that it would normally have - could well have been a contributing factor. It's still the first time that has ever happened. No such issues like this with the Rangie's I usually tow with. - Old or new. :)

[Homestar]

Reading your post brought back so many memories when I had my SR5, you are right, though you do get used to it and drive accordingly.

I think I'd prefer just not to drive one again...;)

[PAT303]

Hey Deano,I don't worry about depreciation,all my vehicles get driven,all get used offroad,all get scratched,it's the same for most on here,I know many Toyota owners who have gotten good resale,none were used offroad,none were parked in car parks,no one was allowed to eat or drink in them and all spent 2/3rds of their lives locked in their garages,so buying a vehicle and having all those conditions imposed resulting in why buy the POS in the first place. Pat

[time2]

With the FTA coming into effect with Japan the cost of the Toyota (and other Japanese) product has just reduced significantly - they're talking $7K+ on a Kakadu Prado. It certainly sways the TCO further in favor of that product.

Whilst I love my D4 and hope to enjoy it for many more years, if I were presented with the buying decision again with these changes - $7K is a lot of money that could be used for a great adventure around Australia.......

[Graeme]

The kms and dust inside my D4 even now will ensure virtually 100% depreciation by the time I'm finished with it.

[PAT303]

With the FTA coming into effect with Japan the cost of the Toyota (and other Japanese) product has just reduced significantly - they're talking $7K+ on a Kakadu Prado. It certainly sways the TCO further in favor of that product.

Whilst I love my D4 and hope to enjoy it for many more years, if I were presented with the buying decision again with these changes - $7K is a lot of money that could be used for a great adventure around Australia.......

Your dreaming,Toyota didn't drop the price when they switched to Thai production,that was worth 5K,do you really think they are going to give it to you now?. Pat

[chuck]

Craig

Ended up buying a Ranger Wildtrak c/w Ironman Foam Cell Pro lift kit & GG AT2 275 65 18's.

Very Happy

Doesn't drive as nice as the D4 but drives well, having said that had a Christmas Tree in the back on day 1.

[d2dave]

A few posts back it was mentioned how some one got good resale on a 100 series cruiser.

I heard a while back that when the 200 came out that the used prices of the 100 went up.

Like the guy with the 4.2 Nissan. When they bought out the 3 litre hand grenade of course the 4.2 would hold value.

When a company produces a good product and then follows it up with rubbish every one wants the good product.

[Disco4SE]

Craig

Ended up buying a Ranger Wildtrak c/w Ironman Foam Cell Pro lift kit & GG AT2 275 65 18's.

Very Happy

Doesn't drive as nice as the D4 but drives well, having said that had a Christmas Tree in the back on day 1.
I did actually look at them myself. Drove the Colorado & Nissan as well, but was impressed with the Ranger.
Know a couple of people that have them. One of my foreman has the equivalent BT50 and tows every day with it.... and almost every weekend.

Ended up going with another fourby wagon.

Cheers, Craig

[Wilesy]

My father in-law purchased a new 4.2 TD Patrol at the time for $30k brand new and sold it 10 years later with 75,000klm's on the clock for $32,000 to a cash buyer.
I have never had anything happen like that in my life time.
Having the discussion on depreciation, it's a value which has to be taken with a grain of salt in most cases between different makes and models. There is just so many varying and contributing factors which determine the end value after a period of time. The cost of the US Dollar, the current oil prices, whether the model you are trading has a new body shape now, whether there are any run out deal going, and even the time of the year plays a role inthe end figure. Even the reputation your model has at the time all play a role in the end result also.
Historically they say Toyota seem to hold their value better than others, I have yet to experience this, or maybe Toyota drivers may be bigger fibbers than other car owners, who knows.
At the end of the day, if you think you should be swayed to one vehicle over another because of resale I think it's a little bit silly,though that's just my opinion.
If you buy any vehicle, have it in your mind that it should hold about 50% of its value after about 4 years you should be happy, if not,well, if you don't know by now that vehicles are the biggest money waters on the planet you need an lesson in economics....

[Discoagogo]

Mate for what it's worth, I bought a my05 a year ago I got it cheap (14k) it is relatively low mileage and petrol. I knew I'd need to spend money on it but to give you an idea suspension bushes and new drive shaft cost me 4k last service cost me 3k but needed a few things fixed. I love the car and will get a newer one down the track but they are costly if you go to a dealer for repairs. Lovely car though.

[DeanoH]

Hey Deano,I don't worry about depreciation,all my vehicles get driven,all get used offroad,all get scratched,it's the same for most on here, ...................................... Pat

Depreciation is a fact of life and whether a buyer factors this in at purchase is up to them though no one's got a crystal ball. So whether a vehicle turns out to be a lemon or the greatest thing since sliced bread only time will tell. We fell on our feet with the D2a, IMO probably the best Disco ever built :D, but I didn't know that at the time of purchase.

My point is that depreciation is real and in a discussion on 'long term cost of ownership' should not be ignored. Whether this is, or can be effectively factored in at time of purchase is another issue.



...............................I know many Toyota owners who have gotten good resale,none were used offroad,none were parked in car parks,no one was allowed to eat or drink in them and all spent 2/3rds of their lives locked in their garages,so buying a vehicle and having all those conditions imposed resulting in why buy the POS in the first place. Pat

Probably lots of different car owners in this bracket Pat, even LR ones :o.

Horses for courses really. The four examples I gave are probably a pretty good spread.
Our D2a was used as Kaye's daily driver for 10 years and many extended trips into the outback on it's own or more often towing an off road camper trailer or caravan. It was never garaged and was dealer serviced from new. When sold it would be best described as well used but in good/fair condition. Sold for approx. 18% of purchase price after 10 years.

The 4.2l Patrol is also a daily driver and used for several trips a year into the high country and every couple of years a major trip (last year Cape York). Often used hauling a trailer of 2-3 tonne of firewood. Vehicle well maintained by the owner, seldom garaged and in very good condition. On todays market would sell for approx. 55% of purchase price.

The 3l Patrol with only 80K on the clock is used for the owners annual holidays where it tows a small A van and has probably never been off road. It is always garaged and serviced to within an inch of its life. It is in immaculate as new condition. Would be very lucky to get 15% of purchase price if sold today.

The 100 series landcruiser was primarily used as a tow vehicle for the owners boat, horse float and large off road caravan. It was always garaged and fastidiously maintained. Whilst it was always washed and cleaned it had its first polish by a professional detailer just prior to being sold. It came up like new, and was also in immaculate condition. Ten years on sold for 67% of purchase price.


The point I am trying to make here is that just because an owner looks after their vehicle and maintains it to a high standard does not preclude its use for the purpose it was bought for. :)


Deano :)

[TerryO]

This thread is mainly about buying a new vehicle but resale has been mentioned and many people on here own late model secondhand Disco's and I reckon buying secondhand can be even more tricky than buying new because often there is little or no warranty and a new owner faces potential expensive repair bills over time.

As some of you would know about five months ago I brought a second hand MY10 V8 D4, one owner 59k on the clock and absolutely 100% like new apart from bald tyres.
As everyone wants diesels and mistakenly believe the petrol V8 costs to much to run I ended up buying it for less than 40% of its new price and about 10k to 15k less than a similar year diesel HSE. Any HSE is a good thing but most have few or no options fitted on the other hand the D4 V8 comes with every single option Land Rover offer standard.
My preference was always to get a V8 petrol D4 anyway given I know how much it costs to maintain a diesel D3, but my point is just because everyone wants the popular model doesn't always mean they are the best buy secondhand or they are anymore suitable than another less popular model.
I worked out given what I paid for it I will have to do over 200,000 kilometres before the diesel even starts to get close to making sense financially and that doesn't take into account possible major parts replacements in that time that many diesels end up needing and what concerned me about the twin turbo 3 litre.

Apart from that the most important thing is the V8 is easily the best vehicle I have ever owned and we drive it everyday because its fun to drive and to me that's more important than buying a vehicle because of better resale value.

[Tombie]

Never said it isn't a real factor...

The TCO and changes in technology aside..
Or the simple desire for a new shiny toy...

Vehicles are always a loss, and they are to some just a tool, others a passion...

I think this sums it up well by Robert Pepper - Life's to short for boring cars!

Where this comes into play - if I lose twice as much $$$ over the life of ownership but have twice the enjoyment driving / owning the vehicle.. Have I really lost?

[bpk]

Living in north QLD most of my mates buy nothing but Toyota. Some good ones, and some shockers as well in the modern models. One mate that 'isn't into cars' got a new Sahara V8 without even looking at the options available because his old toyota was reliable, maybe this one will be, maybe not - that seems to be modern cars.
Brand loyalty for them here is insane and resale is ridiculous... they are lining up for used Prado's at 40k but wouldn't look at a D3 with similar age and mileage for less money.

While we are talking resale - I still enjoy the fact that the Defender 200TDI that I bought for the dealers 'trade in' price of 8000 was sold about 5 years later with plenty more k's on the clock for 12000, funds I needed for the D3. Nothing like a bit of reverse depreciation :)

[nat_89]

Living in north QLD most of my mates buy nothing but Toyota. Some good ones, and some shockers as well in the modern models. One mate that 'isn't into cars' got a new Sahara V8 without even looking at the options available because his old toyota was reliable, maybe this one will be, maybe not - that seems to be modern cars.
Brand loyalty for them here is insane and resale is ridiculous... they are lining up for used Prado's at 40k but wouldn't look at a D3 with similar age and mileage for less money.

While we are talking resale - I still enjoy the fact that the Defender 200TDI that I bought for the dealers 'trade in' price of 8000 was sold about 5 years later with plenty more k's on the clock for 12000, funds I needed for the D3. Nothing like a bit of reverse depreciation :)

Exactly right some people just dont care ill get another of this brand because its been great and i dont know any better thats all i can say!!

[rar110]

It's been said before, luxury cars depreciate more. When I bought my tdv8 RRV it had lost 80% of its list price over 7 years despite being in great condition with a complete service history. Higher than average km would have contributed.

I didn't think I'd like driving this much.

[Melbourne Park]

I paid $55,000 for a Prado in 1997. That included the Toyota bull bar, 3rd party window tint, dealer add on Toyota Air con, Toyota tow bar (made by Hayman Reece I think), front bonnet guard, door edge protectors, carpet mats.

20 months ago its starter motor played up. It cost $320 for reco one. Instead of having it cleaned (the copper tarnishes on them).

The interior light switches are giving up now - the map light ones don't work.

When I drove the vehicle after the starter motor replacement, I realised they stopped the 2nd fuel tank from working. They then claimed its pump had failed. But offered me a bargain $400 replacement. I took it to Midas who found the pulled wire, and charged me $20 for that.

Anyhow, that Prado took us from Melbourne to Byron Bay for the Blues fest, with the roof rack full of stuff, fridge in the back, etc etc, and its Petrol (diesel came a few years later) and it got in the 12 litres per 100km region, genuine fuel use too.

The biggest problem I've had with that vehicle is windscreens braking.

I did the suspension too in around 2004. Instead of trading up to a diesel 120. I didn't like the old diesel in the much heavier 120 series.

Now, the Prado is worth maybe $4k at best. Yet its mechanically excellent. And the seats are excellent too. 150 GLX Prado seats are as hard as iron. They need a foam overlay and then sheep skin seat covers. But the D4's base model seats are only comfortable IMO when they are in their lowest position.

So - while a Prado can be reliable - and the 90 series was - that doesn't mean it holds its value. My GLX has a reputation for high fuel use. But that's because it takes 4,000km for the higher octane to be accepted by the strange Prado computer.

IMO there's a magic line where when vehicles cross, they loose their appeal. The LC 100 series Turbo diesel had a line way off in the distance.

I bought a good value Kakadu Prado, which was a perfect vehicle. It was the 2012 revised model, which had the upgraded 150 suspension which was the same as the revised in appearance 2013 Prados. I then bought an over 2 tonne trailer, which a ball weight of close to 300kg. The Prado could not tow that. Plus - Kakadus are not meant for the bush. IMO. To raise them is a nightmare. Only one guy in Australia (in Geelong) does it properly. The KDSS plays tricks. The Geelong guy imports an American suspension for raising the Kakadu. You loose your adjustable ride suspension, but it handles better.

Anyhow, I sold the Kakadu for much the same as I paid for it. After 9 months of ownership. Moral there is to buy well, and sell it properly.

I'm now getting a D4.

As to its depreciation, it sure will, but I did buy it well. And I got a discount on the warranty extension (its only two years though, but can be cashed in).

Its quite possible that the magic line for when a D4 falls in value, may move forwards. It might happen if D4s don't have major issues. I think all D4 owners can live with air pump failures after 4 years or so. I think the cost of a D4 in 5 years time will be on average - after a big repair - $1,000 a year more than an LC200. But that the fuel savings of the D4 will likely make up for that.

If the new Discovery coming, looses its monocoque - as the Range Rover Sport did - then I think the heavier, more fuel burning, but full hybrid chassis monocoque crazy expensive to build Disco D3/D4 build may be very highly valued for towing. And if Tata do a good job and the vehicles have longevity built into them and better reliability, then depreciation may not be much greater than some Toyotas.

I think that if Land Rover changed the oil more, then Land Rovers would last longer and would gain a better reputation. i suspect that if someone bought a used Land Rover such as a Range Rover sport or discovery, and followed Land Rover's service intervals, they might be OK. But if they towed heavily with it and went outback with a decent trailer, I reckon if they followed Land Rover's scheduled maintenance, they end up having lots of costly issues. I think if you work a vehicle hard, then you have to change to vitals much more often, or the price will have to be payed via failures down the track when the mileage starts to get significant.


As to long term life in a D4, i've yet to find that out. A close relative of mine though had to sell his D3, a 4.4 V8, and it was only worth $15k. I guess it crossed a magic line - the D3 is not loved. Who knows though right now, about D4s? They are not very easy to find cheap and with low kms IMO.