Warning New Puma Owners

[Turtle130]

I know it's been covered here before, but it appears LR still don't know how to fill oil. On picking up my brand new MY15 130 and driving it home, it got the better of me to grab the spanners and check the levels. Surprise surprise, 500ml needed in transfer, 300ml in front diff and rear diff was OK. Yet to do the gearbox, but I won't be surprised if it's short as well!

[tuesdayfox]

Thanks! But how can you check the level of transfer oil?

[Loubrey]

Thanks! But how can you check the level of transfer oil?

Same as the diffs, rule of thumb is the level should be just below the filler plug. Unscrew the filler with a half inch driver and stick your finger in and you should touch oil without having to "reach in".

Good idea to do it when the oil is cold though... :)

Cheers,

Lou

[Beery]

Thats scary. I just picked up my MY15 130 on friday.
LR wonder why they have a bad reputation for quality control and reliability...maybe they should try training apes for factory workers.

Ive already found a heap of loose nuts under the sill of the body...what gave it away was the nut that actually fell off in the driveway!

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app

[incisor]

so much for all that pre delivery fee you fellas have paid :p

[Beery]

so much for all that pre delivery fee you fellas have paid :p

I talked them out of the dealer delivery charges...so maybe they just didnt do it 😕

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app

[AndyG]

I took mine straight to BOR for a after predelivery inspection and then again after 5000 km of Central Australia, nothing wrong both times, money wasted or peace of mind guaranteed.
Now back to the recommended Service Cycle.

[POD]

Should be picked up at pre-delivery inspection. Decades ago I worked in a mazda dealership, they were finding that every vehicle sold needed a litre of engine oil at predelivery, the dealers had quite a dispute with the manufacturer as it was obviously a cost-saving measure.
By the way, the filler plug is not supposed to be used as a level plug in the Puma defenders, as the transfer is mounted on an angle. The proper way to check the transfer oil level is to drain it out, measure it and put it back in :wacko:

[Loubrey]

By the way, the filler plug is not supposed to be used as a level plug in the Puma defenders, as the transfer is mounted on an angle. The proper way to check the transfer oil level is to drain it out, measure it and put it back in :wacko:

Thanks for that POD! :)

Never actually had a go at the Puma's transfer case, but obviously many many times on the 300Tdi.

I imagine the "finger check" remains better than nothing though?

Cheers,

Lou

[POD]

Yeah I don't know how far from the filler hole the level ends up with the correct quantity of oil, I meant to check last time I serviced the 130 but I had the back end on ramps when I filled the transfer oil. I reckon it surely can't make much difference in the scheme of things, but the workshop manual says something to the effect that the world will end if you use the filler plug to check the level.

[Scouse]

maybe they should try training apes for factory workers.

They have. I'll give you one guess as to which production line they're on ;).

[1950landy]

When our Citroen diesel was new I used to check the oil level when it was cold & always got a reading on the minimum mark & kept complaining to Citron . The guy I take it to now says with synthetic oil I need to check it hot . Since i have been checking it hot it is always on the full mark . Apparently Synthetic oil has a large expansion rate.

[scarry]

Puma gearbox is measure filled also,no level plug.

there are quite a few threads on here about it.

[PAT303]

I wouldn't worry about it,there wouldn't be half a cup of difference between filling to the plug or to a measured amount,it's auto's that need to be filled by the book in regards to both capacity and fluid temperature. Pat

[PAT303]

Forgot to add the oil level is the least of our worries,any of you have driveline backlash usually blamed on the P38 diff by the brains trust on here?,I'll give you all a tip,it's not the diff and it's a complete show stopper,complete utter show stopper,just ask me how I know. Pat

[Loubrey]

What's up Pat? Please tell!

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

Stripped the adapter shaft,seems that the 10/11 build are most affected,mine lasted 97k and going by the photo's was assembled dry,total loss of drive,Land Rover repaired it even though it's 3 months out of warranty,they will fix them at cost price if the vehicle has been book service out of goodwill,it felt just like excessive diff backlash before it failed.Osbourne Park had it going again next day. Pat

[justinc]

Stripped the adapter shaft,seems that the 10/11 build are most affected,mine lasted 97k and going by the photo's was assembled dry,total loss of drive,Land Rover repaired it even though it's 3 months out of warranty,they will fix them at cost price if the vehicle has been book service out of goodwill,it felt just like excessive diff backlash before it failed.Osbourne Park had it going again next day. Pat

Just fitted a new one the other day Pat, yes NO lube at all, from NEW. This was the second one for this 110, first went at 70,000km replaced under warranty. This one only did a further 60K, I was replacing the Transfer case and noticed the excessive play due to it falling down when the TC was removed!!! Was almost totally stripped, much like an unlubed axle flange....:o

JC

[PAT303]

Ashcrofts need to work on a fix,it's no different to the timing belt on the Tdi,output shaft on the LT77 and R380,oil in the Td5 loom etc,just another fix.JC,I was told when I picked it up that LR have come up with a grease to pack them with when fitting and they are trying to find a way to fit a grease point,do you pack them when fitting?. Pat

[justinc]

Yes pat, I use a moly grease, similar to the CV stuff but thicker. I don't see there would be any reason bothering with a grease point, There is nowhere for the grease to go once it is pushed in and assembled. Anyway, by the time it may need attention you,d be removing the transfer case for O rings and CDL thrust washers :wasntme:...next one I build is getting an Ashcroft ATB .

JC

[PAT303]

I think an ATB will go into mine also,a rubber boot like a CV packed with grease would be the go instead of a grease point. Pat

[AndyG]

Stripped the adapter shaft,seems that the 10/11 build are most affected,mine lasted 97k and going by the photo's was assembled dry,total loss of drive,Land Rover repaired it even though it's 3 months out of warranty,they will fix them at cost price if the vehicle has been book service out of goodwill,it felt just like excessive diff backlash before it failed.Osbourne Park had it going again next day. Pat

Your view on support the Dealer & they will support you has panned out ok.

[pannawonica]

Stripped the adapter shaft,seems that the 10/11 build are most affected,mine lasted 97k and going by the photo's was assembled dry,total loss of drive,Land Rover repaired it even though it's 3 months out of warranty,they will fix them at cost price if the vehicle has been book service out of goodwill,it felt just like excessive diff backlash before it failed.Osbourne Park had it going again next day. Pat

mine was exactly the same.:(

[Loubrey]

I think an ATB will go into mine also,a rubber boot like a CV packed with grease would be the go instead of a grease point. Pat

Please excuse my ignorance and lack of mechanical understanding, but I'm totally confused. The adapter shaft is part of the transfer case and I sort of followed the discussion about it being dry during assembly...

However, how does the ATB come into play in preventing the wear described? The Ashcroft ATB is from my understanding an advanced LSD that goes into one of the differentials and is obviously significantly "removed" from the transfer case? Do you actually build it into the TC and what would the benefits be (other than very much stronger 4 pin carrier etc)?

Honest question with no sarcasm here guys as in my mind spending 295 GBP on making a component bulletproof is not a bad investment...

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

Your view on support the Dealer & they will support you has panned out ok.

It's a shame some see me as being one eyed or blinked but the results speak for themselves. Pat

[PAT303]

Please excuse my ignorance and lack of mechanical understanding, but I'm totally confused. The adapter shaft is part of the transfer case and I sort of followed the discussion about it being dry during assembly...

However, how does the ATB come into play in preventing the wear described? The Ashcroft ATB is from my understanding an advanced LSD that goes into one of the differentials and is obviously significantly "removed" from the transfer case? Do you actually build it into the TC and what would the benefits be (other than very much stronger 4 pin carrier etc)?

Honest question with no sarcasm here guys as in my mind spending 295 GBP on making a component bulletproof is not a bad investment...

Cheers,

Lou

Lou,that was a post between JC and I,it was regarding lubing or replacing the adapter shaft when re-shimming the center diff,by removing the center diff and replacing it with an ATB you never have to touch it again,no drive line slop and no servicing and you get better gravel/dirt road performance to boot,the T/C has to come out to lube or service both the adapter shaft and the center diff if also replacing the oil seals,a common leak,LR have an upgraded input seal which was also fitted to my vehicle at no cost. Pat

[ATH]

Generally the stealer in Osborne Park have done well on all warranty work on my 2010 Puma but I virtually had to plead with the workshop foreman to grease the shaft when they replaced the transfer case.
So I still don't know if it was really done as he said it wasn't an LR requirement!
Just have to wait and see but even though they never serviced it they have never quibbled about doing anything in the past so fingers crossed.;)
AlanH.

PS. I know one place my vehicle won't go in an eastern suburb and that's where the tosser I saw assured me all Transits and Deafeners have transfer cases and adaptor shafts which wear out. Didn't know they made Transits with low range.
Methinks he don't know wot he's talking about. :mad:

[alittlebitconcerned]

[QUOTE=Beery;2264499]Thats scary. I just picked up my MY15 130 on friday.
LR wonder why they have a bad reputation for quality control and reliability.

I don't think LR wonder and I don't think LR care.

[scarry]

Slightly off topic,but keep an eye on the end of the Puma dipstick.

It maybe falling apart,you don't want pieces of it falling in the engine.

[PAT303]

I've been in contact with Dave Ashcroft,they are making a replacement shaft that will be available early next year. Pat

[goingbush]

Please excuse my ignorance and lack of mechanical understanding, but I'm totally confused. The adapter shaft is part of the transfer case and I sort of followed the discussion about it being dry during assembly...

However, how does the ATB come into play in preventing the wear described? The Ashcroft ATB is from my understanding an advanced LSD that goes into one of the differentials and is obviously significantly "removed" from the transfer case? Do you actually build it into the TC and what would the benefits be (other than very much stronger 4 pin carrier etc)?

Honest question with no sarcasm here guys as in my mind spending 295 GBP on making a component bulletproof is not a bad investment...

Cheers,

Lou

Lou, I don't think your question was understood or answered,
they were talking about replacing the centre diff in the transfer case with an ATB, . The Center diff has been a weak point since the RRC first came out, and carried on poor design into the LT230 , and made even worse in the Puma. Finally an aftermarket fix when they are going out of production - typical !

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=381)

[tuesdayfox]

I know it's been covered here before, but it appears LR still don't know how to fill oil. On picking up my brand new MY15 130 and driving it home, it got the better of me to grab the spanners and check the levels. Surprise surprise, 500ml needed in transfer, 300ml in front diff and rear diff was OK. Yet to do the gearbox, but I won't be surprised if it's short as well!

Thanks Turtle
I just finishing topping up both diffs in my MY13 PUMA defender.:censored::censored::censored:
yes 500ml goes in front diff and 300ml goes in the rear.
I also found ALL the bolts on front diff carrier are LOOSE, some of which can be easily turned by hand. so I torqued them properly to 41NM.

will check gearbox and transfer box tomorrow.

btw Turtle, the OEM oils are not easy to get hold of.
could you tell me which one you are using for the transfer and gearbox?

Thanks
Martin

[Turtle130]

Martin, I try to use Penrite oil wherever I can (blind patriotism maybe) but it has stood every test I've ever thrown at it. Penrite pro gear 75-90 in the transfer, good old 80W-90 in the diffs. Gearbox I still have not checked (time poor) and this one will be the hardest choice. LR BOT382 is, quite frankly, stupidly expensive. If it does need oil, I will certainly give the pro gear a burl and see what the shift quality is like.

That said, each to their own as far as oil choices go because opinions are many and varied on this sudject....

[cinders]

Same here, Penrite since basically new.

[justinc]

Don't be tempted to run anything but BOT328 in the main gearbag. It can be bought at a reasonable price from aftermarket suppliers like ROVACRAFT, (happy now Stu??? :P)or BMI etc.
In any case, if at 60,000km intervals you baulk at paying around $150 for a trans oil change then maybe look at the bigger picture. Oil is comparatively cheaper than trans issues. This gearbox had a history of shift issues and poor performance when first intruduced in Mustang etc, the oil was specially developed by Castrol for Ford/ getrag. Just use the correct oil and it won't bite you. Just be thankful you don't have a 6HP26 in a D3/4. They take 3 times as much oil and at a similar $/ litre, too.

Penrite products are what we use here, too.

JC

[tuesdayfox]

Thanks Guys.

so I guess it will be generally okay to mix different brands?

[Tombie]

Just use the correct oil and it won't bite you. Just be thankful you don't have a 6HP26 in a D3/4. They take 3 times as much oil and at a similar $/ litre, too.

Penrite products are what we use here, too.

JC

Arent I lucky :D We have both :p

[justinc]

Arent I lucky :D We have both :p

Yeah, but the little 90 will be a fair while off needing a trans oil change :D

And the D4....well you can do that yourself, anyway, when you install a new 2 post hoist in your shed....:)

JC

[PAT303]

JC,when do you do tranny oil in the defender,40K intervals?. Pat

[justinc]

Hi Pat, 60K as a rule. I have more concern over the transfer cases, they get Penrite Pro gear 75w90 full synthetic at 20K intervals....

I have 1 customer that has a MY2007 130 with 180K on it, trans still shifts like new and it has a good hard working life (like a 130 should :cool:) I have been changing his at 60K intervals since new. He has had 1 transfer case, 1 front diff, 1 engine, 1 clutch and a few other bits and bobs but the transmission has been faultless.

JC

[djam1]

Hi Pat, 60K as a rule. I have more concern over the transfer cases, they get Penrite Pro gear 75w90 full synthetic at 20K intervals....

I have 1 customer that has a MY2007 130 with 180K on it, trans still shifts like new and it has a good hard working life (like a 130 should :cool:) I have been changing his at 60K intervals since new. He has had 1 transfer case, 1 front diff, 1 engine, 1 clutch and a few other bits and bobs but the transmission has been faultless.

JC


What no rear diff?

[justinc]

Hi Duane!!

No, surprisingly not even a weep from the pinion seal, ever!

Had shocks, brakes, rear axles, suspension bushes, bla bla bla you name it. Even started rusting the bulkhead due to poor paint finish from new :mad:

He owns a 1988 110 V8 county, 550,000km and it doesn't leak a drop of rain inside the vehicle, and is still on its orginal transfer case and diffs.... had a 3.9 V8 and R380 fitted 15 years back...still on SU's and apart from the 1993 Vogue SE RRC with 390,000km he also has, is the most reliable car he has owned.


JC


JC

[PAT303]

Sounds like my Tdi,can't kill the thing,I might have to change over to Penrite now it's out of warranty. Pat

[loneranger]

We took our 110 in for backlash issues and were told it was 'Normal for a Defender'. We took it in again last week for a number of issues including the worsening backlash. Again we were told it was normal. This was after the Service Technician went for a drive with me and admitted there was an issue.

One of the other issues was the Diff-lock/High/Low shifter was not sticking in low and the diff-lock wouldn't stay on. The warranty report stated they changed a large washer for a smaller washer and the washer behind the diff-lock light on the dash was changed for a bigger washer. The selector now works perfectly and for this appears to have fixed the backlash.

They still insisted it was normal in spite of us saying that it felt like a different gearbox to my wife's new 90.

[justinc]

Worsenbing backlash means it'll be flat trayed in there soon, and then they'll find the problem...:mad::mad::mad:

JC

[Pilbara130]

My 130 had bad back lash at 70k the boys changed out the rear axels before warranty ran out drives like new again.

[tuesdayfox]

excuse my ignorance,
but what is a backlash?

is it referring to excessive freeplay in the driveline so you will get a "knock" when take off?

Thanks
Martin

[Duarte19]

excuse my ignorance,
but what is a backlash?

is it referring to excessive freeplay in the driveline so you will get a "knock" when take off?

Thanks
Martin

yes

[ozy013]

Ashcrofts need to work on a fix,it's no different to the timing belt on the Tdi,output shaft on the LT77 and R380,oil in the Td5 loom etc,just another fix.JC,I was told when I picked it up that LR have come up with a grease to pack them with when fitting and they are trying to find a way to fit a grease point,do you pack them when fitting?. Pat

Hey Pat and JC, I just thought this link might interest you in regards to Landrover coming up with a solution for the dry adapter shaft splines.
DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Another one with worn splines!! (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32931.html)

It get's interesting on the 3rd page, it seems that maybe there might be a fix in the works from Land Rover.
This is of great interest to me as mine is one of the seemingly more prone 2010's. Though with non of the symptoms, yet.
I have a friend that work's as a service manager for one of the Dealers just outside of Manchester. I haven't been in touch for awhile, but I'll give him a call tomorrow and see if he knows anything.

blackwolf; "The mod consisted of drilling the outer part of the coupling for two diametrically-opposed grease nipples, and drilling a hole in the casing to allow a grease gun to reach the nipples when the shaft is aligned correctly."

ian series 1, post's a picture of the mod;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/11/158.jpg

[justinc]

Hey Pat and JC, I just thought this link might interest you in regards to Landrover coming up with a solution for the dry adapter shaft splines.
DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Another one with worn splines!! (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32931.html)

It get's interesting on the 3rd page, it seems that maybe there might be a fix in the works from Land Rover.
This is of great interest to me as mine is one of the seemingly more prone 2010's. Though with non of the symptoms, yet.
I have a friend that work's as a service manager for one of the Dealers just outside of Manchester. I haven't been in touch for awhile, but I'll give him a call tomorrow and see if he knows anything.

blackwolf; "The mod consisted of drilling the outer part of the coupling for two diametrically-opposed grease nipples, and drilling a hole in the casing to allow a grease gun to reach the nipples when the shaft is aligned correctly."

ian series 1, post's a picture of the mod;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/11/158.jpg

Thanks, yes thought of something similar but was reluctant to drill into the housing, still I have another one to do shortly so might ask them if they are happy for me to drill their trans to prevent this ever happening again. I have been packing moly grease into them before assembly to date, they fling a bit out but lots will stay behind.

JC

[PAT303]

So how do you get to the grease nipple?. Pat

[justinc]

Holesaw, drill into the extension housing in such a place as to be able to see it and reach it with the grease gun from outside. That was the part that stopped me from doing this. You'd need a decent hole to make it work properly IMO.

JC

[PAT303]

I'm going to wait to see what Ashcrofts have come up with. Pat

[justinc]

I'll be watching with interest too Pat.

JC

[ozy013]

Well today I spoke to the bloke I know at the dealer in the UK, just outside of Manchester. He had never heard of this official or semi official mod that one of the main dealers had done. He did point out that because their dealership is in the county of Cheshire, which is a pretty wealthy area, where a fair few football players also reside, most of their work is on Rangies and Disco's. Hard to believe considering it's a pretty rural area, ah well how times have changed since I lived there.:(

Another point he made was that the those Defenders affected by this issue are in general out of warranty by now. Most owners once out of warranty go to the good selection of Independents in the area.
The dealer he works for has replaced 2 adapter shafts, one was a 2007 and the other was a 2011. Both came in with clutch issues.

He did however call the main dealer in Manchester, the service techs were very interested in this mod, but had never heard of it being done. They did say that Landrover now have a complete kit to do the job which includes New shaft and splined shaft, seal, clip, the 2 dust covers, plus the grease one applies. So far this financial year, this dealer has done 7 shafts. One 2008, one 2011 and two 2010's that came in with clutch issues. Two that had total loss of drive, a 2009 and 2011. Plus an inspection of a 2008 as requested by the owner, which was found to be badly worn.

I too will be watching with interest, Ian.

[ozy013]

Hey Pat and JC.

Just a quick update, looks like Ashcrofts have come up with a well engineered solution.
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/mt82-output-shaft-kit.html)

Enjoy. Ian.

[Turtle130]

Hey Pat and JC.

Just a quick update, looks like Ashcrofts have come up with a well engineered solution.
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/mt82-output-shaft-kit.html)

Enjoy. Ian.

Well that wasn't what I was expecting but, brilliant none the less. Typical Ashcroft ingenuity though.

[AndyG]

At any point did LR resolve this at the factory, or is it a feature to the end?

[ashtrans]

Well that wasn't what I was expecting but, brilliant none the less. Typical Ashcroft ingenuity though.

That's very kind of you, thanks

Dave

[ashtrans]

At any point did LR resolve this at the factory, or is it a feature to the end?

The parts do not superceed so there is no factory fix that I am aware of, the lowest mileage failure I have seen is 16K miles, very poor, especially as it's essentially the same problem that the LT77 mainshaft has had since the early 80's

Dave

[alan48]

Hi, My son's MY14 110 with only 23K kms has just been booked into his dealer for a new shaft, new rear axles etc so looks like still happening even on new ones--this really should be a recall fix and is not a good advert for the product. Bill to dealer is over $3500 so glad a warranty repair! His dealer though has been great.

[goingbush]

Thats an awesome bit of Lateral thinking by Ashcrofts,

Eventho I've sold the Defender now the Ashcroft R380 was one of the best things I put into that car.
Dave, If Landrovers ever get 'reliable' and you find yourselves twiddling thumbs there are plenty of Kits you could design to make the new Iveco Daily 4x4 better ;)

[Loubrey]

Ordered mine last night! :D

I've always believed in preventative maintenance and while mine's not too bad at this stage, I'd rather have the permanent fix sooner than later.

Cheers,

Lou

[Lagerfan]

I've always believed in preventative maintenance and while mine's not too bad at this stage, I'd rather have the permanent fix sooner than later.

Probably a stupid question but if you don't do this as a preventative measure what do you risk apart from the obvious? I guess what I am asking is if I wait for it to fail will it take out other components leading to further $$$ or can I drop in this fix then?

[Loubrey]

My lack of mechanical knowledge around gearbox and transfer case borders on dangerous, so I rely heavily on the advice and input from the guys here on the forum and the fact that Ashcroft's improved and modified parts are not commercially driven, but true fixes of known issues. So this is purely my take on the issue...

It is my understanding that if this adapter shaft fails, you just loose total drive without other peripheral damage (other than potentially over revving the engine for an instant).

I've got a couple of long distance trips lined up for the middle of this year and they are the sort of thing you do not want to risk loosing drive on, hence me going for the preventative maintenance route.

My car is out of warranty, so I have no consideration on that account. I'm not sure Land Rover will look too favorably on a mod like this (but I could be wrong as the new parts are modified genuine items). Its also my understanding that they are at least greasing that adapter shaft now, but whether on recall or on an ad-hoc basis if they fail, I'm not sure.

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

Lou,who's fitting it for you?. Pat

[Lagerfan]

Thanks Lou, your mechanical knowledge far exceeds mine! We are still in warranty and have no remote trips planned any time soon but probably go straight on the to-do list as soon as warranty expires.

Are there any symptoms to look for? I thought I read somewhere that the dreaded backlash especially at speed (in high gears) was a clue. Can't say we have that.

[PAT303]

That's very kind of you, thanks

Dave

Dave,do you get the Ford Ranger in the UK fitted with the MT82?,how do Ford connect the gearbox-transfer?,they don't have this issue as far as I know.While your here when fitting the ATB to the T/C does it affect the center diff lock in any way?,when fitted it sends power front/rear when open but in diff lock it locks just like normal?,will a TDCi center diff bolt into a Tdi?. Pat

[PAT303]

Thanks Lou, your mechanical knowledge far exceeds mine! We are still in warranty and have no remote trips planned any time soon but probably go straight on the to-do list as soon as warranty expires.

Are there any symptoms to look for? I thought I read somewhere that the dreaded backlash especially at speed (in high gears) was a clue. Can't say we have that.

Mine felt like the diff had backlash,I have a feeling that all the people that had diffs replaced and all the people who constantly rubbished the P38a were wrong.Mine had a clunk if you dropped the clutch but now after replacing the drive flanges and shaft the diff is spot on,my shaft is only 5K old so I'm not rushing to replace it but it'll be done with an ATB center,the TDCi center will be re-shimmed and fitted to my Tdi,the Tdi has a lot of T/C slap but at 471,000km's it's to be expected. Pat

[Lagerfan]

Mine felt like the diff had backlash

We certainly get backlash but generally only at low speeds/gears, going very easy on the clutch helps but I can't help think it is wrong. LR always trot out the "it's a Defender" line when I ask about it.

[Loubrey]

I can and do drive mine without any lash, but its only due to what can only be described as a "semi double clutch" action I've developed over many years driving Defenders.

One of the Land Rover fitters drove it the other day with me in the passenger seat and the "thunk and clunk" he managed to produce (regardless of his best effort not to) was actually quite alarming.

Same as Lagerfan its only on gear changes, but regardless of speed. A 5th to 6th at 110 will produce the same lash if done "normally".

See if I can convince Southern Land Rover to to fit it for me with my 70K service coming up...

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

At 70K Lou it's passed it's best. Pat

[YOLO110]

At 70K Lou it's passed it's best. Pat

Seriously! :o

I would HOPE that things should last a good 160,000km these days! :D

[Jeff]

Seriously! :o

I would HOPE that things should last a good 160,000km these days! :D

I would hope 360,000. Fingers crossed.

Jeff

:rocket:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Gee's Jeff,, those sidecars are notoriously heavy things to tow,,,:angel::p:p

[51mondays]

Hi, My son's MY14 110 with only 23K kms has just been booked into his dealer for a new shaft, new rear axles etc so looks like still happening even on new ones--this really should be a recall fix and is not a good advert for the product. Bill to dealer is over $3500 so glad a warranty repair! His dealer though has been great.



jeez....about to commit to a new 110 MY15. certainly is a little nerve-racking with such stories. I hope I get a good one.


Glad the dealer was good. I will ask mine to check oil levels at delivery.


Unfortunately the dealer that has stock of the base-model Keswick green one that I want (delivered in time to take advantage of the current sale) is not the dealer where I will get the car serviced. Just due to distance away from me. I hope I can still get a good relationship going with the servicing dealer.

[Loubrey]

jeez....about to commit to a new 110 MY15. certainly is a little nerve-racking with such stories. I hope I get a good one.


Glad the dealer was good. I will ask mine to check oil levels at delivery.


Unfortunately the dealer that has stock of the base-model Keswick green one that I want (delivered in time to take advantage of the current sale) is not the dealer where I will get the car serviced. Just due to distance away from me. I hope I can still get a good relationship going with the servicing dealer.

I wouldn't worry mate, your vehicle will be among the best Defenders ever built. They seem to have gotten just about everything right just before the end of production.

The shaft we're talking about is effectively the link between the Ford gearbox and the Leyland Trucks (Land Rover) transfer case. Land Rover had a shoestring budget from Ford for the whole Puma development and some R&D ended up being done by the owners who bought early ones. The difference between a 2007 and a 2010 was massive and the difference between a 2010 and a 2015 is pretty much again.

I understand that Land Rover now admits that the shaft needs lubrication (it was assembled dry previously) and they now grease the connection, which is what I would have done, had I not been aware of and waiting for the Ashcroft engineered shaft. A number of guys had the grease fix on older Pumas from Land Rover and they seem to be fine. I'd imagine yours would be done like that from new though.

Cheers,

Lou

[Grumbles]

j\

Unfortunately the dealer that has stock of the base-model Keswick green one that I want (delivered in time to take advantage of the current sale) is not the dealer where I will get the car serviced. Just due to distance away from me. I hope I can still get a good relationship going with the servicing dealer.

Over the years regardless of vehicle marque when booking my cars in for service often the first thing mentioned is -"Where did you buy iit?" -I have come to expect a distinct negative turn of attitude if I answer "not here" and at times a disinterest in work quality.

[Jeff]

I wouldn't worry mate, your vehicle will be among the best Defenders ever built. They seem to have gotten just about everything right just before the end of production.

I hope so. I bought one of the last TDis and it has been fantastic, so hope by buying one of the last Pumas I get a similar run.

Pedro, it isn't the sidecar that weighs a lot, it's the tools, wet weather wheels, spare engine, compressor etc. etc. :) and my trailer is no lightweight.

Jeff

:rocket:

[MrLandy]

Over the years regardless of vehicle marque when booking my cars in for service often the first thing mentioned is -"Where did you buy iit?" -I have come to expect a distinct negative turn of attitude if I answer "not here" and at times a disinterest in work quality.

I just had my 40K service done at a different dealer than the one I bought my Defender from. They were fantastic. In fact they won my business. Better than the original dealer for service by far.

[ATH]

A mate bought his Puma when they first came out in 2007. Absolutely loved it and I believe it gave faultless service over many trips to the east including Tassie until last year. Stopped at Balladonia then no drive at all so flat bedded back to Perth.
Haven't heard from him since.
When mine was in warranty and having work done to fix the shocking backlash I had to plead with the service foreman at the stealers to grease the damn shaft and all he would say is "It's not a service item....."!
Not only bad design but shoddy workmanship from the assemblers but I note in my handbook they make reference to a Caltex (I think) grease for this.
I may invest in an Ashcroft fix or I may just do the unthinkable...... :o
AlanH.

[Avion8]

I wouldn't worry mate, your vehicle will be among the best Defenders ever built. They seem to have gotten just about everything right just before the end of production.

The shaft we're talking about is effectively the link between the Ford gearbox and the Leyland Trucks (Land Rover) transfer case. Land Rover had a shoestring budget from Ford for the whole Puma development and some R&D ended up being done by the owners who bought early ones. The difference between a 2007 and a 2010 was massive and the difference between a 2010 and a 2015 is pretty much again.

I understand that Land Rover now admits that the shaft needs lubrication (it was assembled dry previously) and they now grease the connection, which is what I would have done, had I not been aware of and waiting for the Ashcroft engineered shaft. A number of guys had the grease fix on older Pumas from Land Rover and they seem to be fine. I'd imagine yours would be done like that from new though.

Cheers,

Lou

So would this be the blue grease that has been seen leaking from a lot of recently delivered Defenders including mine. Some have even left their mark on the ground, mine didn't & since wiping this residue off it has not returned:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/616.jpg (http://s938.photobucket.com/user/jodel1050/media/Heritage%2090/P1030380_zpsntcaw9lm.jpg.html)

[tact]

Martin, I try to use Penrite oil wherever I can (blind patriotism maybe) but it has stood every test I've ever thrown at it. Penrite pro gear 75-90 in the transfer, good old 80W-90 in the diffs. Gearbox I still have not checked (time poor) and this one will be the hardest choice. LR BOT382 is, quite frankly, stupidly expensive. If it does need oil, I will certainly give the pro gear a burl and see what the shift quality is like.

That said, each to their own as far as oil choices go because opinions are many and varied on this sudject....

I put Penrite Pro Gear 75W-90 in gearbox, transfer case, both diffs. Seems to be a good move. YMMV

[rick130]

when fitting the ATB to the T/C does it affect the center diff lock in any way?,when fitted it sends power front/rear when open but in diff lock it locks just like normal?,will a TDCi center diff bolt into a Tdi?. Pat

Pat, the centre diff lock operates as per normal with the ATB.
I can post up some piccies if you like, I think I have a few from when I did mine back in June.

The TD5 and later t/cases use a different spline on the hub gear, but Dave can supply a new hub gear so the later centre diff or ATB can be used on a Tdi.
This is the combo I have as Tdi spec ATB's were unavailable at the time.

An ATB in the t/case is one of the best mods I've done, it eliminates a lot of backlash from a worn centre diff.

[lall]

Does anyone know how far the oil in a Puma's transfer-case (ditto gearbox) is below the filler plug when Land-Rover's recommended fill/refill procedure is followed, given:-


Thanks! But how can you check the level of transfer oil?

and also, "Originally Posted by POD https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/209707-warning-new-puma-owners-post2264617.html#post2264617) By the way, the filler plug is not supposed to be used as a level plug in the Puma defenders, as the transfer is mounted on an angle. The proper way to check the transfer oil level is to drain it out, measure it and put it back in"

[DazzaTD5]

So would this be the blue grease that has been seen leaking from a lot of recently delivered Defenders including mine. Some have even left their mark on the ground, mine didn't & since wiping this residue off it has not returned:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/616.jpg (http://s938.photobucket.com/user/jodel1050/media/Heritage%2090/P1030380_zpsntcaw9lm.jpg.html)

Yes they now (did) grease them from factory, there was a service note about it some time ago from memory.

other notes...
*On the transfer case, the filler plug can be used as the level mark on a TDCi (puma), while the TDCi transfer case sits more vertical than previous Defender models, the difference in the fluid quantities, as already mentioned would lucky to be a cup full at best.

*Also as often noted here, the important one is to not overfill the gearbox as it will leak from the front and rear seals.

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

[QUOTE=lall;2492136]Does anyone know how far the oil in a Puma's transfer-case (ditto gearbox) is below the filler plug when Land-Rover's recommended fill/refill procedure is followed, given:-

Both are different..

Gearbox - after draining add 2.2lts

Transfer case - after draining fill to filler plug.

Regards
Daz

P.S as others have mentioned the Penrite Pro Gear 75W90, I use it in all diffs, transfer case, and the MT82 gearbox (TDCi models). In fact I use it in most Jeep drive lines too.