TDV6 crank and crank bearing failures

[jakeslouw]

Hi all

Disco 3 owners in South Africa have started experiencing more and more crank breakage and crank bearing failures on the TDV6.

These seem to occur anywhere from new to out beyond 120,000kms

So I'd like to politely ask if any forumites here have had such a failure, whether you would post the following details:

- Disco 3/4 model
- manufacturing year
- mileage when failure occurred
- dealer services intervals Y/N and if no, how often on engine oil replacement
- If non standard engine oil spec, what oil and grade
- description of failure
- repaired under warranty or not
- response from LR if any
- anything else that can assist such as any oil additives, even diesel ppm

We're trying to build up a database of incidents world wide in order to try and determine a pattern or causal effect.

Thanks in advance.

[101RRS]

If I recall correctly LR UK have acknowledged this issue and have formally communicated this.

The correspondence was listed on either the Disco3 UK Forum or the RRS UK Forum - I would be looking there for information.

Garry

[jakeslouw]

If I recall correctly LR UK have acknowledged this issue and have formally communicated this.

The correspondence was listed on either the Disco3 UK Forum or the RRS UK Forum - I would be looking there for information.

Garry

Hi Garry

Yes, we're talkong to the UK forums.

The issue is that LR is trying to imply that these are extremely isolated incidents. They have also not issued any general recall.

LR South Africa also tries to claim negligence or abuse even when the crank fails within warranty, and it takes legal action for them to then repair.

So we're trying to determine the number of incidents world-wide and then attempt to correlate that with sales numbers, among other parameters.

[TerryO]

Good luck with LR SA. I had my out of LR warranty 2005 TDV6 engine pulled apart at 95,000 k's for a different unrelated reason and the mechanics found a number of bearing caps were only finger tight when they checked them. I was lucky another couple of hundreds kilometres at most and it would have seen a rod or two plus the crank smashed, so the engine was saved from failure just in time.

They never said the bearings were worn out, rather the bolts holding the caps had come loose.

A number of years ago quite a number of so called TDV6 bearing/crank failures happened here that were reported on the forum, funnily enough you don't hear about it much now. I reckon mine would have been a rear case in that it was pulled apart just prior to failing, rather than just after when everything was to wrecked to properly diagnose what went wrong to cause the failure in the first place.

As I said good luck.

[Rich84]

Hi all

Disco 3 owners in South Africa have started experiencing more and more crank breakage and crank bearing failures on the TDV6.

These seem to occur anywhere from new to out beyond 120,000kms

So I'd like to politely ask if any forumites here have had such a failure, whether you would post the following details:

- Disco 3/4 model
- manufacturing year
- mileage when failure occurred
- dealer services intervals Y/N and if no, how often on engine oil replacement
- If non standard engine oil spec, what oil and grade
- description of failure
- repaired under warranty or not
- response from LR if any
- anything else that can assist such as any oil additives, even diesel ppm

We're trying to build up a database of incidents world wide in order to try and determine a pattern or causal effect.

Thanks in advance.

I was under the impression that many of the failures in South Africa were down to:
1) incorrect oil being used ie 15w/50
2) dealer service intervals of 25,000ish km (way too long)
3) difficulty in obtaining high quality oil that meets specification

We have much shorter OCI's here in Australia (ie 15,000km officially) but many of us change our oil at far shorter intervals than that, even, so we don't seem to get a lot of failures.
TerryO's type of failure is not common but not unheard of on the earlier 05-06 TDV6's.
Far and away the most common type of failure I've personally read about is the oil pump breaking at the timing belt tensioner mount, releasing the timing belt and destroying at a minimum the upper valve train, although our dealer here in Adelaide claims to have never heard of the issue.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just remember these are Ford engines, built to LR specs
Fix Or Repair Daily
Failed On Race Day

[TerryO]

I was under the impression that many of the failures in South Africa were down to:
1) incorrect oil being used ie 15w/50
2) dealer service intervals of 25,000ish km (way too long)
3) difficulty in obtaining high quality oil that meets specification

We have much shorter OCI's here in Australia (ie 15,000km officially) but many of us change our oil at far shorter intervals than that, even, so we don't seem to get a lot of failures.
TerryO's type of failure is not common but not unheard of on the earlier 05-06 TDV6's.
Far and away the most common type of failure I've personally read about is the oil pump breaking at the timing belt tensioner mount, releasing the timing belt and destroying at a minimum the upper valve train, although our dealer here in Adelaide claims to have never heard of the issue.

Not sure what you base your (in bold) comments on Rich? There have been plenty of bearing/crank failures reported earlier on in the life of the TDV6 in D3's both here and overseas.
Land Rover reportedly fitted the later model 3.0 litre bearings in 2009 to their TDV6's to try and stop the failures and as. I said mine didn't fail, the problem was found before it did.

[Redback]

Here ya go, a 20sec search and bingo

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/search.php'searchid=5083993

Baz.

[Leroy_Riding]

Here ya go, a 20sec search and bingo

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/search.php'searchid=5083993

Baz.

the search results say 1.06 seconds, not 20 seconds :P
Leroy.

[Redback]

the search results say 1.06 seconds, not 20 seconds :P
Leroy.

Took me 20sec, the rest was the computer here at work:p

Baz.

[101RRS]

If I recall correctly LR UK have acknowledged this issue and have formally communicated this.

The correspondence was listed on either the Disco3 UK Forum or the RRS UK Forum - I would be looking there for information.

Garry

Here you go - it even have the LR reference number. NOTE this is FROM LR UK THE VEHICLES MANUFACTURER

Just published on the UK sites from LR.

Quote:

Reference SSM71816

Models

Discovery 4 / L319
Discovery 3 / L319
Range Rover / L405
Range Rover Sport / L494
Range Rover Sport / L320

Title Crankshaft/Crankshaft Bearing Concerns - TDv6 Diesel Engine
Category Engine
Last modified 06-May-2014 00:00:00
Symptom 499000 Basic Engine

Content
Issue:
Crankshaft/crankshaft bearing failure - TDv6 Diesel Engine.
Cause:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.

Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
· Engine makes a loud ‘rumbling/knocking’ sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds.

UnQuote

So if the maker of the vehicle acknowledges the issue then I fail to see how subordinate regional areas can also deny liability.

Garry

[Rich84]

Terry, consider the number of TDV6 engines produced versus the number of those with your specific failure - or potential failure (ie the bottom end bolts not torqued properly).

The comparative number does not make it a common failure. The oil pump issue comes up much more frequently and thankfully it's something we can mitigate.

Even the number of crank failures of all types is not enough to call it a common failure, and there are a few different types that seem to occur:
-bearing caps not torqued properly
-seizure of bearings
-snapping of crank around the 2nd main bearing.

It's definitely a known issue but it's a stretch to call it common here and in UK when you think of the thousands of registered members on both sites. It does seem to occur more in Africa though, it'd be good to understand if it has a lot to do with servicing or whether it's just a manufacturing problem (ie your case).

EDIT AFTER READING GARRY's POST: I wonder if LRA would accept that as evidence of a known problem if one of us were to present to them with a dead vehicle? You would think with the threat of some legal action, with that service bulletin out there, they'd have nowhere to hide?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It all depends on if the vehicle is in-warranty or ourt of warranty.

I can confirm that LRA is very cooperative when TDV6 engines seize when in-warranty. It is merely a time issue to get the new crate engine to the dealer for replacement. No arguments and no complaints.

As it should be for a car under warranty.

[TerryO]

Rich, not sure you have a handle on this. Usually the only time these engines get pulled apart to see what has gone wrong is after there has been massive component failure. How would LR or anyone know exactly what has caused those issues after the parts are wrecked? Having looked inside plenty of wrecked race engines after they have blown up unless you can see something like the cam timing is out or the oil pump failed or something that is obvious and usually away from the wrecked parts then its near impossible to diagnose in many cases what caused the blow up.

Mine was a case where the engine was pulled apart for other non related issues and they found the lose bearing caps at that time, as I said this would be very rear that a engine was pulled apart prior to it blowing up. So who is to say that lose bearing cap bolts (for what ever reason) aren't the reason why in many of these cases that the other components failed?

Plus only a small fraction of Disco owners in Australia are members of Aulro, so who knows, apart from LR, how many TDV6's have had this bearing/crank failure. When my engine was eventually replaced the workshop told me LR had nine long engine TDV6's in stock in Australia, that is a lot if your not expecting a reasonable number of them to fail in any one parts delivery cycle.

The reports from LR clearly show that this is a common problem otherwise they would not have said anything, in fact for years they tried to deny they had a problem. As I said you don't hear of it often now, but maybe that is because the majority of the various engines that had the problems ticking away inside have already failed and have been replaced, who knows!

[101RRS]

It all depends on if the vehicle is in-warranty or ourt of warranty.

Given the LR advice was published in May 2014 and covers D3 vehicles some of which would have been out of warranty by up to 6 years, to me it applies irrespective of whether the vehicle is in or out of warranty - I would assume some sort of check re servicing etc would be needed though.

[TerryO]

Given the LR advice was published in May 2014 and covers D3 vehicles some of which would have been out of warranty by up to 6 years, to me it applies irrespective of whether the vehicle is in or out of warranty - I would assume some sort of check re servicing etc would be needed though.

Agreed.

[Scouse]

Given the LR advice was published in May 2014 and covers D3 vehicles some of which would have been out of warranty by up to 6 years, to me it applies irrespective of whether the vehicle is in or out of warranty - I would assume some sort of check re servicing etc would be needed though.This LR advice is just for the 'fix'. LR technical don't really care if it's a warranty issue or not as who pays for it is not their concern.


Any 'out of warranty' failures will need to be considered on a case by case basis.




I wonder if the Territory is having similar problems. I did hear a rumour that the old stocks of original spec 2.7s were passed onto Ford for the then new diesel Territory.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Rich, not sure you have a handle on this. Usually the only time these engines get pulled apart to see what has gone wrong is after there has been massive component failure....

...Plus only a small fraction of Disco owners in Australia are members of Aulro, so who knows, apart from LR, how many TDV6's have had this bearing/crank failure. When my engine was eventually replaced the workshop told me LR had nine long engine TDV6's in stock in Australia, that is a lot if your not expecting a reasonable number of them to fail in any one parts delivery cycle.

...Who knows!Nine TDV6 engines in stock may sound a lot, however LRA manage Land Rover sales and warranties across South-East Asia and the South West Pacific/Oceaniana.

In which case nine long engines may not be so many, particularly when there are 2.7TDV6, 3.0TDV6 and 3.0SDV6 and a number of other model changes.

Diana

[TerryO]

It wasn't nine LR diesel long engines in stock it was nine 2.7 TDV6's. Scott may know but chances are a surface freight delivered shipment would arrive every four to six weeks. So its reasonable to expect that LRA felt like they needed a certain number of engines in stock to cover what they could reasonably expect might be needed for replacements in any one delivery cycle.

The other thing is at the time the workshop asked they said they had nine, who knows how many they usually have in stock at anyone time and how run down their stock was?

I'm not bagging the engine, I reckon it is a excellent bit of gear, but early on quite a few failed and LR recently acknowledged that.

[Rich84]

The reports from LR clearly show that this is a common problem otherwise they would not have said anything, in fact for years they tried to deny they had a problem. As I said you don't hear of it often now, but maybe that is because the majority of the various engines that had the problems ticking away inside have already failed and have been replaced, who knows!

I get what you're saying Terry - let's hope that's the case, I'm hoping to get a lot of km out of my TDV6! :twisted:

[101RRS]

This LR advice is just for the 'fix'. LR technical don't really care if it's a warranty issue or not as who pays for it is not their concern.


Any 'out of warranty' failures will need to be considered on a case by case basis.




I wonder if the Territory is having similar problems. I did hear a rumour that the old stocks of original spec 2.7s were passed onto Ford for the then new diesel Territory.

I cannot comment on that but as the advisory says "Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use." I would think most courts would take this as an admission of a assembly issue"

I had heard that LR fixed this problem on the 07/08MY change over so newer 2.7s are not affected. I also understand that the Territory engines are all the newer versions.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> I wonder if the Territory is having similar problems. I did hear a rumour that the old stocks of original spec 2.7s were passed onto Ford for the then new diesel Territory.Isn't the Territory 2.7 merely the same engine that has been used in the Mondeo? IIRC all of these TDV6 engines for both Ford products and Land Rover come out of the Ford Dagenham engine plant, although the 3.0 and turbo setups are different.

[rar110]

Good luck with LR SA. I had my out of LR warranty 2005 TDV6 engine pulled apart at 95,000 k's for a different unrelated reason and the mechanics found a number of bearing caps were only finger tight when they checked them. I was lucky another couple of hundreds kilometres at most and it would have seen a rod or two plus the crank smashed, so the engine was saved from failure just in time. They never said the bearings were worn out, rather the bolts holding the caps had come loose. A number of years ago quite a number of so called TDV6 bearing/crank failures happened here that were reported on the forum, funnily enough you don't hear about it much now. I reckon mine would have been a rear case in that it was pulled apart just prior to failing, rather than just after when everything was to wrecked to properly diagnose what went wrong to cause the failure in the first place. As I said good luck.



You were certainly lucky dodging the cost of an engine replacement.

[catch-22]

Here you go - it even have the LR reference number. NOTE this is FROM LR UK THE VEHICLES MANUFACTURER

Just published on the UK sites from LR.

Quote:

Reference SSM71816

Models

Discovery 4 / L319
Discovery 3 / L319
Range Rover / L405
Range Rover Sport / L494
Range Rover Sport / L320

Title Crankshaft/Crankshaft Bearing Concerns - TDv6 Diesel Engine
Category Engine
Last modified 06-May-2014 00:00:00
Symptom 499000 Basic Engine

Content
Issue:
Crankshaft/crankshaft bearing failure - TDv6 Diesel Engine.
Cause:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.

Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
· Engine makes a loud ?rumbling/knocking? sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds.

UnQuote

So if the maker of the vehicle acknowledges the issue then I fail to see how subordinate regional areas can also deny liability.

Garry



Anyone know if LR Australia have formally acknowledged this issue?

[Redback]

Anyone know if LR Australia have formally acknowledged this issue?

LR don't acknowledge anything:twisted:

[darth]

LR don't acknowledge anything:twisted:

Hi all,
I am currently waiting for LR to respond to a request for 'Goodwill' due to my crank failure in my SDV6 3.0 disco 4 in September 2017. My missus was driving sedately in traffic when the car's warning lights came on suddenly and the car slowed. She pulled off the road immediately and that was it. LR Wollongong couldn't turn the crank and there it sits waiting for a response from head office. I bought the vehicle only five months ago privately (with up to date service record) and I'm still coming to terms with what it will cost me if I have to foot the bill completely. I have quoted the LR service bulletin: SSM71816 that i found on the web to the serviceman at LR. What are my chances of assistance from LR? Is anyone aware of other avenues I can explore?
Cheers
Jim

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What year is it?

[SBD4]

What year is it?
Based on the engine designation and assuming it is out of standard warranty which is 3 years, it will be MY13 or MY14.

[Aussie Jeepster]

This says to me that there is a procedure in place to handle the failures.

For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure

[trebor]

Hi all

Disco 3 owners in South Africa have started experiencing more and more crank breakage and crank bearing failures on the TDV6.

These seem to occur anywhere from new to out beyond 120,000kms

So I'd like to politely ask if any forumites here have had such a failure, whether you would post the following details:

- Disco 3/4 model
- manufacturing year
- mileage when failure occurred
- dealer services intervals Y/N and if no, how often on engine oil replacement
- If non standard engine oil spec, what oil and grade
- description of failure
- repaired under warranty or not
- response from LR if any
- anything else that can assist such as any oil additives, even diesel ppm

We're trying to build up a database of incidents world wide in order to try and determine a pattern or causal effect.

Thanks in advance.

I have a MY15 Discovery TDV6 , which I purchased new at Solitaire in Adelaide, South Australia in March 2015.
In September 2016, at 25,000km, the crankshaft failed.
The vehicle had had two oil changes prior to the failure, both performed at the dealer's service centre in Adelaide. Those changes occurred at 12,000km and 23,000km.
The engine was replaced by Land Rover Australia under warrantee.
The failure occurred in the Northern Territory more than 1500km from home and LRA covered the cost of retrieving the vehicle back to Adelaide.

Cheers
Nick

[darth]

Based on the engine designation and assuming it is out of standard warranty which is 3 years, it will be MY13 or MY14.
It's a 2011.

Jim

[SBD4]

It's a 2011.

Jim
Sorry Jim, my mistake was not recalling correctly when the "SDV6" engine designation started.

[scarry]

Sorry Jim, my mistake was not recalling correctly when the "SDV6" engine designation started.

The actual year of build,and MY is often confusing.
An MY11 vehicle,for example,can be built late 2010.
No wonder the people get muddled up.

Clear as mud[bigwhistle]

[Patio]

I just bought a rrs 2.7 with full service history 161300 kms 02/2008 delivery. New toy first drive out of town checked all fluids as car is new to me, on return into Sydney same day up goes to temp gauge then goes down engine oil light flickers, then on comes engine light. As soon as the temp gauge had it’s moment I moved to left lane and started to look for a space to get off the eastern distributor. When engine light came on a popped the gearbox into neural, but it was all over red rover ( no pun intended ) three tow trucks later back to dealer whom I bought the car from motor is toaste. My problem is nil warranty dealer will help with repairs, I’ve located an engine out of another sport similar year model full service history , actually it’s been driven by me sweet running engine, but I read some were that there is a guy in Goulburn who does it tow in drive out without needing to take second mortgage. Which is better the ford version which is hopefully newer or another sport motor.

[101RRS]

So why did the actual engine fail? Low coolant? Low oil? Broken cam belt idler pully mount on the oil pump? Or even a crankshaft failure?

If you do need to get a new engine it would seem the cheapest option is a Territory engine but prices have been going up. I live in Canberra and not heard of this guy just up the road in Goulburn who does this.

There is a specific thread on putting in a Territory engine. Territory engine into D3, A Comprehensive Guide (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/231168-territory-engine-into-d3-comprehensive-guide.html)

[Patio]

So why did the actual engine fail? Low coolant? Low oil? Broken cam belt idler pully mount on the oil pump? Or even a crankshaft failure?

If you do need to get a new engine it would seem the cheapest option is a Territory engine but prices have been going up. I live in Canberra and not heard of this guy just up the road in Goulburn who does this.

There is a specific thread on putting in a Territory engine. Territory engine into D3, A Comprehensive Guide (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/231168-territory-engine-into-d3-comprehensive-guide.html)
it appears that someone had put an additive into the cooling system bars leaks or something along those lines to bodge a possible blown head gasket, the car yard got the engine running again cooling system is pressserizing straight away with a noisy bottom end. So looks like it will need a bit of coin tipped into it. Cam belt still intact. Some high pressure fuels lines were replaced under the inlet manifold which was thought to be the cause of the shut down in the first place. Engine runs but isn’t happy. Back in Sydney on Saturday morning to start to get something sorted out with getting this useable again.

[loanrangie]

Dealer or private sale Patio? I'd be fuming and looking for compensation.

[Patio]

Well the salesman will come to the party with helping to cover some of the cost , car at roving mechanical for engine replacement so I may get some use out of this vechicle in the near future. It leaves a very bad taste in ones mouth having to spend nearly half the value of a newish car within such a short space of time.

[Redphill]

I have just had a new 3.0 fitted to my 2010 (MY11) SDV6 after the crank snapped on Christmas Day. I have to say LR responded pretty quickly off the back of the dealer submitting a claim (plenty of commentary on this site, and others around LR bulletins on the broken crank matter). Majority of service work had been done at LR, also with two years at an independent. I had to supply the indi service records and the indi was also asked to send LR the oil specification they had used. LR covered the cost of a new motor, all parts and fluids etc. I paid the labour (5.5k).

[Gregz]

I have just had a new 3.0 fitted to my 2010 (MY11) SDV6 after the crank snapped on Christmas Day. I have to say LR responded pretty quickly off the back of the dealer submitting a claim (plenty of commentary on this site, and others around LR bulletins on the broken crank matter). Majority of service work had been done at LR, also with two years at an independent. I had to supply the indi service records and the indi was also asked to send LR the oil specification they had used. LR covered the cost of a new motor, all parts and fluids etc. I paid the labour (5.5k).

Hi Redphill, what was your warranty status at the time?
Thanks.

[Redphill]

Hi Gregz, warranty finished over 2 years ago, so nil warranty. Mileage 149,000km.

[Gregz]

Hi Gregz, warranty finished over 2 years ago, so nil warranty. Mileage 149,000km.

Thanks Redphill, that is a relatively good outcome IMHO , and considerably anxiety-reducing. Happy motoring to you, sir [bigsmile1]

[Maharba]

Hi all

Disco 3 owners in South Africa have started experiencing more and more crank breakage and crank bearing failures on the TDV6.

These seem to occur anywhere from new to out beyond 120,000kms

So I'd like to politely ask if any forumites here have had such a failure, whether you would post the following details:

- Disco 3/4 model
- manufacturing year
- mileage when failure occurred
- dealer services intervals Y/N and if no, how often on engine oil replacement
- If non standard engine oil spec, what oil and grade
- description of failure
- repaired under warranty or not
- response from LR if any
- anything else that can assist such as any oil additives, even diesel ppm

We're trying to build up a database of incidents world wide in order to try and determine a pattern or causal effect.

Thanks in advance.2007 Discovery 3s.
Spun rear main bearing.
Well known fault in pre 2008 models.
I bought it cheap with the issue so unknown when and how it occurred.

[andeck]

Did this issue end with a particular year model?

Also. Has anyone had their bearings preemptively checked and what were the findings?

[Maharba]

Well the salesman will come to the party with helping to cover some of the cost , car at roving mechanical for engine replacement so I may get some use out of this vechicle in the near future. It leaves a very bad taste in ones mouth having to spend nearly half the value of a newish car within such a short space of time.Not sure about NSW but in VIC there are mandatory warranties for cars bought from car dealers.

[ozscott]

For the sake of extra space and comfort I would actually consider dropping $15k on an older D3 oiler in good nick - ie 2006 or thereabouts HSE or SE but the truth is that while the risk might not be huge, the potential costs if it spins a bearing bearing (and lets face it the idea that it was restricted to vehicles built before a certain times now looks wrong) or requires an auto box (or both...) are huge.

I have a low k 4.6 V8 in my D2 and it has an ARP head stud kit so should be sorted for 250,000k minimum. Even if it does not last that long a long motor top hatted and all nice is very cheap. Likewise my 5th gear in the R380 manual is getting a little noisy (350,000k) and a full reco by a reputable company with warranty is $2,400.... Unfortunately while I would put up with sorting out niggles, air compressors, even expensive lower control arms in a D3 that are worth as much as a gear box in my D2 the risk, whilst not great, is just too great to consider a D3. The costs of even a second hand 2.7 fitted would be huge and of course you would then have to flog it given the worries attached such motor.

It is such a shame because the D3 in theory as an older second hand vehicle would otherwise be attractive.

Cheers

[Fatso]

I often wonder how many of these failures are due to bad servicing and re-mapping or chipping the engines for more power .

I dont think a second hand D3 is any more a punt than say a Tojo or simular these days , the price of everything now is off the planet anyway . [bigsad]
.

[ozscott]

I often wonder how many of these failures are due to bad servicing and re-mapping or chipping the engines for more power .

I dont think a second hand D3 is any more a punt than say a Tojo or simular these days , the price of everything now is off the planet anyway . [bigsad]
.

From what I have read on this site and elsewhere they are stockers with proper servicing in the main. LR have recognised the problem but it is very hit and mis on any assistance out of warranty.

Cheers

[101RRS]

I often wonder how many of these failures are due to bad servicing and re-mapping or chipping the engines for more power .

Remapping is not likely to be the cause - remember the 2.7 engine was designed as a twin turbo and was fitted as such in Jags with higher power and torque. The 2.7 engine as fitted in Land Rover was detuned so remapping might only bring it back up to twin turbo spec.


From what I have read on this site and elsewhere they are stockers with proper servicing in the main.

Actually it is the opposite - while there have been early failures and some with a full service history, most have been older engines and some with dodgy service history. Remember the broken cranks are a secondary symptom of the problem - they do not break just by themselves.

The issue is the spinning bigend bearing caused by excessive wear which seizes and grabs the crankshaft causing it to break. Now there have been some early examples on this happening and it is not sure why (dirt at manufacturer -unlikely - bad tolerences maybe) but most are a bit older - my take is that maybe poor oil selection/lack of oil changes leading to bearing wear and the shells loosening and spinning or just plain old age, ie normal wear and tear where the bearing wears enough to spin.

I think that if serviced correctly it is pot luck whether you have an issue but the chances in % of having an issue are pretty small - it is just that about every failure gets reported on forums like this so the issue gets lots of visibility.

Garry

[PhilipA]

One wonders if the very extended service intervals are a factor.

I also wonder if engines that are over-serviced also suffer the problem. I bet not.

Unfortunately when you buy one second hand you probably don't know accurately what its history is .

Regards Philip A

[ozscott]

Thanks Gary. I could have sworn that there was a known assembly issue with early ones.

Cheers

[101RRS]

One wonders if the very extended service intervals are a factor.

12,000km for the 2.7 is not really extended.

[101RRS]

Thanks Gary. I could have sworn that there was a known assembly issue with early ones.

Cheers

As I indicated there are some very early failures but they are the exceptions - in statistical terms they would be outliers. TerryO a few years back had to have the sump dropped on his 2.7 and the big end bearing cap bolts were loose - so really an assembly issue so this may have been the cause of the early failures.

[CanadianRyan]

Hi all

Disco 3 owners in South Africa have started experiencing more and more crank breakage and crank bearing failures on the TDV6.

These seem to occur anywhere from new to out beyond 120,000kms

So I'd like to politely ask if any forumites here have had such a failure, whether you would post the following details:

- Disco 3/4 model
- manufacturing year
- mileage when failure occurred
- dealer services intervals Y/N and if no, how often on engine oil replacement
- If non standard engine oil spec, what oil and grade
- description of failure
- repaired under warranty or not
- response from LR if any
- anything else that can assist such as any oil additives, even diesel ppm

We're trying to build up a database of incidents world wide in order to try and determine a pattern or causal effect.

Thanks in advance.


Yes had a failure. D3 2.7 TDV6 MY08 Manufactured Nov '07. 155k on odometer at the time. Full service history by independent LR garage. Pulling 1500kg camper trailer along flat stretch of highway at time of failure (~100km/h) - heard "whirring" sound, no throttle response for a few seconds, then shut itself off (bit scary on the highway). Not under warranty and repaired out of pocket. No response from LR Australia.

[PerthDisco]

Mate’s VW Golf petrol melted a piston which apparently is not uncommon and he got diddly from VW.

Consider anything that is doing city miles is running in ‘arduous conditions’ and service accordingly is a good start.

[ozscott]

Unease grows over Land Rover engine | IOL Motoring (https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-rover/unease-grows-over-land-rover-engine-1925479)

This article has LR Sth Africa saying that from 2012 there was a design change - " Changes have been made at a production level and all new engines manufactured since 2012 use a new bearing design. Dealers have been briefed on the procedure for any engine that experiences this issue."

Although there have been owners on here with post 2012 vehicles with sudden catastrophic failure with good service history and not high k's.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Recon Range Rover 2.7 TDV6 Engines 276DT (https://engineengineering.co.uk/start/reconditioned-engines-rebuilt:298/rebuilt-land-rover-reconditioned-engines:347/recon-range-rover-27-tdv6-engines-276dt:978)

Interesting article.

Cheers

[Disco4Dave]

I also wonder if engines that are over-serviced also suffer the problem. I bet not.
My 2016 SDV6 got oil and filter every 12k kms, at a LR dealer so probably using the correct supplies, and it did the crank at around 70k km.
Good servicing may reduce the risk, but does not eliminate it unfortunately.

[ozscott]

Sorry to hear that mate. I can't see that 10,000 k or even 6,000k oil and filter changes would have saved it. They just let go.

Cheers

[scarry]

Recon Range Rover 2.7 TDV6 Engines 276DT (https://engineengineering.co.uk/start/reconditioned-engines-rebuilt:298/rebuilt-land-rover-reconditioned-engines:347/recon-range-rover-27-tdv6-engines-276dt:978)

Interesting article.

Cheers

But they still don't say exactly what causes the crank issue,i suppose they have to be careful what they say.

I bet they know.

[Pippin]

Does anyone know what the failure rate is? is it 1in100; 1in1,000 or greater.
Nick

[loanrangie]

Does anyone know what the failure rate is? is it 1in100; 1in1,000 or greater.
Nick

From what i have read its around 1.5-2%.

[LRD414]

From what i have read its around 1.5-2%.
I've read that too but never with substantiation or any facts.
The UK forums and groups seem particularly bad for talking in endless circles about the subject.
Have you come across anything concrete?

Cheers,
Scott

[rar110]

Premature engine failure in one or two vehicles out of every 100 is terrible. Surely it can’t be that high a rate of failure.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Im sure this has been covered before...

From Wiki:Land Rover Discovery - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Discovery) scroll to the bottom to the table of total sales

(Taken with a bucket of salt of course)

Total Discovery 3 and 4 series sales since 2009: 353,614 taking off 2016 and 2015 models, where i believe the crank issue has been resolved, i guesstimate around 250,000 vehicles. 1.5% failure represents 3750 failures, 2% 5000 failures.

Both those values seem very unlikely IMHO.

My conservative estimate woul be around 200 failures globally, if that. This is then 0.08%. While still not acceptable for those that it happened to, this is perjaps more realistic. Even if 500 failures globally, this is 0.2%.

Note im not including the 2.7tdv6 in the Ford territory, as i am not aware of crank failures in those engines / cars (lighter duty??). As a rough estimate, assuming the same amount of 2.7s fitted to those, the failure rate is closer to 0.04%.

This is just my opinion, someone smarter than me has probably already tallied all the failures.

For me, ill just keep driving my 3.0, service it regularly using quality oils and filters, and hope for the best. Maybe im out of the danger zone?

[ozscott]

Im sure this has been covered before...

From Wiki:Land Rover Discovery - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Discovery) scroll to the bottom to the table of total sales

(Taken with a bucket of salt of course)

Total Discovery 3 and 4 series sales since 2009: 353,614 taking off 2016 and 2015 models, where i believe the crank issue has been resolved, i guesstimate around 250,000 vehicles. 1.5% failure represents 3750 failures, 2% 5000 failures.

Both those values seem very unlikely IMHO.

My conservative estimate woul be around 200 failures globally, if that. This is then 0.08%. While still not acceptable for those that it happened to, this is perjaps more realistic. Even if 500 failures globally, this is 0.2%.

Note im not including the 2.7tdv6 in the Ford territory, as i am not aware of crank failures in those engines / cars (lighter duty??). As a rough estimate, assuming the same amount of 2.7s fitted to those, the failure rate is closer to 0.04%.

This is just my opinion, someone smarter than me has probably already tallied all the failures.

For me, ill just keep driving my 3.0, service it regularly using quality oils and filters, and hope for the best. Maybe im out of the danger zone?Where does the 200 worldwide come from? Only a very small fraction of D3 and D4 owners frequent and post on web sites.

Cheers

[PerthDisco]

There’s a yes/no “has your engine blown up” survey on Disco3 and it reports a high percentage of yes recipients and looks pretty bad.

But - the total respondents to the survey is in the 100s whereas subscribers to Disco3 is like 43,000. There is a very large silent majority.

I did post the stats here somewhere.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Where does the 200 worldwide come from? Only a very small fraction of D3 and D4 owners frequent and post on web sites.

Cheers

Like i said, just my opinion / guesstimate.

What would be your estimate of engine failures related to crankshaft or main bearing failures for this engine series?

Considereing that, the proportion of engine failures because of that as a root cause as opposed to say, bent conrods from oil surge, failed piston rings, damaged valve train from oil pump tensioner failing, suddenly the percentage gets smaller again.

My point being that "1.5 -2%" seems to me unrealistic, my guess is its closer to 0.04% or even lower.

[ozscott]

Im sure this has been covered before...

From Wiki:Land Rover Discovery - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Discovery) scroll to the bottom to the table of total sales

(Taken with a bucket of salt of course)

Total Discovery 3 and 4 series sales since 2009: 353,614 taking off 2016 and 2015 models, where i believe the crank issue has been resolved, i guesstimate around 250,000 vehicles. 1.5% failure represents 3750 failures, 2% 5000 failures.

Both those values seem very unlikely IMHO.

My conservative estimate woul be around 200 failures globally, if that. This is then 0.08%. While still not acceptable for those that it happened to, this is perjaps more realistic. Even if 500 failures globally, this is 0.2%.

Note im not including the 2.7tdv6 in the Ford territory, as i am not aware of crank failures in those engines / cars (lighter duty??). As a rough estimate, assuming the same amount of 2.7s fitted to those, the failure rate is closer to 0.04%.

This is just my opinion, someone smarter than me has probably already tallied all the failures.

For me, ill just keep driving my 3.0, service it regularly using quality oils and filters, and hope for the best. Maybe im out of the danger zone?Post 23 above is a 2015 MY with 25k approx and dead motor.

One would hope they fixed them before D5 but can see they had much incentive with the new model and all new engines coming out...

Cheers

[discorevy]

Where does the 200 worldwide come from?

Cheers

Wishful thinking

I only look after around 15-20 of the d3 / d4 / rrs tdv6, sdv6 ,not including mine, and I know of 2 .( both serviced every 10- 12000k with correct oils )
Dazza does a lot more than that and his workshop has lots of broken ones lying around .
My 2006 rrs has 355000 kilometres on it and had been cooked till both heads were warped .
refaced / pressure test of heads , refit and all good , so they can occasionally last.
But I won't be getting rid of my TD5 for remote trips[bigwhistle]

[Fatso]

I wonder how many are the result of flashing ECUs etc to gain more power out of the already heavy workload on the 2.7 in Discos RRS .

[PerthDisco]

And incorrectly fitted oil filters on the 2.7 is terminal also all being bunched in engine seized / died category

[Drharry]

2010 TDV6 150kms - blows blue smoke and has a loud knock… what’s the chances of it just being a big end bearing and not further damage to a conrod or crank?

[DieselLSE]

2010 TDV6 150kms - blows blue smoke and has a loud knock… what’s the chances of it just being a big end bearing and not further damage to a conrod or crank?
And the piece of string is how long? It doesn't really matter as you have to remove and strip the engine anyway. So the strip down cost won't change. The rebuild/replace costs are another matter.

[Drharry]

And the piece of string is how long? It doesn't really matter as you have to remove and strip the engine anyway. So the strip down cost won't change. The rebuild/replace costs are another matter.

Bearing shells can be replaced from underneath yeah? Would it be worthwhile just pulling the sump off and inspecting, and if nothing else is obvious, just replacing the big end bearings and seeing how it goes?

[BradC]

Bearing shells can be replaced from underneath yeah? Would it be worthwhile just pulling the sump off and inspecting, and if nothing else is obvious, just replacing the big end bearings and seeing how it goes?

Doesn't explain the blue smoke.

[Graeme]

I very much doubt that a loud knock can be due to worn bearings.

[Tins]

Bearing shells can be replaced from underneath yeah? Would it be worthwhile just pulling the sump off and inspecting, and if nothing else is obvious, just replacing the big end bearings and seeing how it goes?

Well, you can...


https://youtu.be/LZiZqr43hj0

[BradC]

Almost looks like you only need to replace the bottom shells on the mains. The tops look pretty clean.

[Tins]

Vera says OMG! a bit..


https://youtu.be/rgxoiPleVyE

[Tins]

60,000 Km! No warranty. If it was a Mitsubishi it would be fixed, no questions asked...


https://youtu.be/Vc5h8EdgwCY

[shack]

60,000 Km! No warranty. If it was a Mitsubishi it would be fixed, no questions asked...


https://youtu.be/Vc5h8EdgwCYI wouldn't guarantee that, I think you'll find it depends very much on the attitude of the dealer, I know someone who has been messed around fairly well.. Also been a bit "economical" with information regarding repairs and diag.

They were good with pricing though, under $200 per hour labour.