Pro and Cons of Chipping D3 diesel

[koffeetemple]

We have a 2006 D3 diesel. Now i would like to apologize as i am sure this has been covered before but i cant seem to find the posts.
We are looking towing a horse trailer with two large horses (total weight approx 2.5 tonnes) from Brisbane to Melbourne and to a reasonable number of other long trips. So i want to know is there and real advantage to chipping or remapping. What should i look for if i go down that track. The other thing i looking at, is getting a better exhaust system.
Thanks for any help in this matter

Regards

Damien :D

[Tombie]

Hello and Welcome..

Firstly - Do not CHIP (plug in box) ever.... Shocking things that do nothing for longevity.

Here is where I would be talking - BAS Performance Remaps. Landrover tuning at its best! (http://bellautoservices.co.uk/)

Be clear on what you want to do, just like your post...

[simmo1]

I would have thought that the thing would be a pretty good tow car as is, they certainly have a good reputation. For a vehicle with some miles and time on it I would think that looking at chipping the thing is likely to be an invitation to a disaster.

A trip over that distance with a heavy load is bound to test the thing out so preventative work is priority one. At the very least a comprehensive service would be worthwhile including all fluids inc transmission and both diffs and also review and check intercooler hoses. Basic sound maintenance.

Good luck, Simmo

[~Rich~]

Hello and Welcome..

Firstly - Do not CHIP (plug in box) ever.... Shocking things that do nothing for longevity.

Here is where I would be talking - BAS Performance Remaps. Landrover tuning at its best! (http://bellautoservices.co.uk/)

Be clear on what you want to do, just like your post...

X2
Yep be sure to let Pete know your want the improvements for towing and he will configure your file to suit.

[101RRS]

Now i would like to apologize as i am sure this has been covered before but i cant seem to find the posts.


In google type "chipping TDV6 aulro" and you should find plenty of information.

cheers

Garry

[kiwirich]

As the other guys have said, BAS Remap is the secret
Richard

[peterall]

You can't go past BAS Remap.
My 2005 TDV6 improved fuel usage by 5lt/100km when towing a 21ft van, 3 lt/100km without the van and really reduced the turbo lag around town.
As others have said, tell Pete exactly how you use the vehicle and he will map it to suit.
Money well spent, I reckon.:p

[koffeetemple]

I went to the site and it seems that the company is in the UK. How do they remap a car in Australia or am I just missing the obvious.

Thanks

Damien

[101RRS]

I went to the site and it seems that the company is in the UK. How do they remap a car in Australia or am I just missing the obvious.

Thanks

Damien

Yes - you are missing the obvious.

As part of the remap process you buy the BAS interface device. When you get it you plug it into your car and download a copy of the standard map from the car.

You then plug the interface device to your household computer and download the standard map to your computer then simply email the map to BAS who then email your new map to you normally the same day.

You can keep backup copies of both maps on your computer and the interface device stores both maps.

You then plug the interface device to your car and upload the new map to your car - takes about 3 minutes.

I keep the interface device in my car in the unlikely event that the ECU got corrupted or to change back to the standard map if the car goes in for a service.

I have a map that does not increase power but maximises torque at around 100/110kph for overtaking and towing. It decreased my 0-100kph acceleration time by three seconds and when required the car has more zoom zoom across the board. Fuel consumption is unchanged.

Garry

[koffeetemple]

Thanks for your help

[Beerdead]

"We insist on a non restrictive air intake or induction system and an uprated performance intercooler to help maintain a cooler charge and air intake tempratures when cars are worked hard or for long peroids, worked at high rpm or speeds as well as used in hot countrys or conditions."

Have any of the gentlemen who used the BAS programmes done this as well? If not, what are the differences in performance and economy?

[Kennyboydixon]

I am putting a DP Chip on my D3 2.7 this weekend. I read a lot of comments on why it should never be done, mostly by those who have never used one. I ran one on a BMW E53 X5 for 4 years without any issues. Increased power and torque beautifully and reduced fuel consumption. Read the DP Chip info re the warranties etc.
I will let the forum know how it runs and if there are any issues down the track.

[Tombie]

I am putting a DP Chip on my D3 2.7 this weekend. I read a lot of comments on why it should never be done, mostly by those who have never used one. I ran one on a BMW E53 X5 for 4 years without any issues. Increased power and torque beautifully and reduced fuel consumption. Read the DP Chip info re the warranties etc.
I will let the forum know how it runs and if there are any issues down the track.

Just because people haven't run them is no grounds for dismissing the reasoning.
I won't run one - ever... Because I know how they work, what they are doing to achieve what they get, and what impact it has on the engine.

Did you tow much with the X5? Much hot slogging offroad?
How many km did you put on it? What was the baseline tune and EGTs pre-chip?
What were they after?

These boxes ramp rail pressure and toss in fuel and some fiddle a bit of timing - that's it...

They don't maintain engine safety protocols because they alter the signals - so even in a dangerous condition the computer thinks all is good...

As for warranty - the claims are totally false and misleading... If you remove it before warranty claims you may get away with it. But leave it in and try claiming an engine or power train warranty that could be attributed to changed engine performance and you'll soon be floundering!

The "won't void manufacturers warranty" claim is by deception, not approval.

A dealer does not have an obligation to warrant anything operated outside of design tolerances.

Good luck...

Oh, and how is it a $1400 (retail) chip stacked up against a customised $900 tune which alters timing, fuel etc correctly is the better choice? :angel::wasntme:

[jon3950]

Thanks Tombie. Saved me a lot of typing. :D

Cheers,
Jon

[Leroy_Riding]

BAS remap is on the list of things for my D3 in the future, though my only aim will be to try and remove the horrid turbo lag, if at all possible, not after much esle, seems to have more than enough Gusto for me (though i am coming from a Defender which moved at a much more leisurely pace) though am also interested in if the Larger inter cooler and such mentioned above should be done at the same time?

Leroy.

[rar110]

Why do car makers set the ecu for suboptimal performance?

[PeterOZ]

Why do car makers set the ecu for suboptimal performance?

longevity.

Some reason our F/A-18F have derated GE F414 Turbofan engines.

"...engine provided a 15% thrust increase or longer life without the thrust increase"

I'd like some better fuel economy and less turbolag but won't put the engine at risk to do so. I have a 2007 D3 with 192k so longevity and reliability are my drivers now.

[Tombie]

A smoothing tune will do that, a power tune will always have trade offs in heat and wear.

[rar110]

A smoothing tune will do that, a power tune will always have trade offs in heat and wear.

Does a smoothing tune have an impact on reliability or other trade offs?

[jon3950]

Why do car makers set the ecu for suboptimal performance?

They don't. It's just that their definition of optimal performance may differ from yours. :D

Cheers,
Jon

[101RRS]

BAS remap is on the list of things for my D3 in the future, though my only aim will be to try and remove the horrid turbo lag,

Leroy - while there is a little turbo lag - what you are feeling as turbo lag is indecision by the gearbox ECU and is a well known design issue. To demonstrate try driving in command shift and manually moving the gears and I think that you will find the lag is considerably less.

For sure off the line there is a lag when you floor it and this is turbo lag but in situations where you are slowing to come to a stop but you then do not stop and you have no go that is the gearbox ECU not knowing what gear to put the box in so momentarily does nothing - when coming to a stop the gearbox stays in 3rd (maybe second) until you stop then into 1st ready for takeoff. But if you do not come to an actual stop and hit the accelerator to get across a road the gearbox ECU has a hissy fit and takes a while to decide what to do - note in these circumstances after the pause it then takes off like a scalded cat as the ECU has finally decided to pick the right gear.

I have nearly had a couple of incidents trying to get across roads with the car moving out into traffic and dying, so I always make sure I have enough room to take into account the lag and also stay far enough back for the rush.

As far as mapping to help with the issue - some say it works but I have a BAS map on my car and it made no difference. Getting the gearbox software updated may assist with the pregnant pause.

Garry

[Leroy_Riding]

Leroy - while there is a little turbo lag - what you are feeling as turbo lag is indecision by the gearbox ECU and is a well known design issue. To demonstrate try driving in command shift and manually moving the gears and I think that you will find the lag is considerably less.

For sure off the line there is a lag when you floor it and this is turbo lag but in situations where you are slowing to come to a stop but you then do not stop and you have no go that is the gearbox ECU not knowing what gear to put the box in so momentarily does nothing - when coming to a stop the gearbox stays in 3rd (maybe second) until you stop then into 1st ready for takeoff. But if you do not come to an actual stop and hit the accelerator to get across a road the gearbox ECU has a hissy fit and takes a while to decide what to do - note in these circumstances after the pause it then takes off like a scalded cat as the ECU has finally decided to pick the right gear.

I have nearly had a couple of incidents trying to get across roads with the car moving out into traffic and dying, so I always make sure I have enough room to take into account the lag and also stay far enough back for the rush.

As far as mapping to help with the issue - some say it works but I have a BAS map on my car and it made no difference. Getting the gearbox software updated may assist with the pregnant pause.

Garry

you are a great source of knowledge :)
if the map wont fix that i wont bother with it.
thanks :)
Leroy

[101RRS]

you are a great source of knowledge :)
if the map wont fix that i wont bother with it.
thanks :)
Leroy

As I said, didn't work for me but others claim it made an improvement.

The map will definitely improve your vehicle, particularly in the mid-range (at the speeds you tend to drive, tow and overtake on the highway).

Well worth the cost.

Garry

[Kennyboydixon]

Well the good thing Tombie is we all have a choice on what to do in life, no matter what the opinion from others is.

I do tow a lot, towed a 2.7 ton van with my chipped X5 and did 60,000km. I don't do off road slogging (X5 not really designed for this) and I won't be in the D3 either. Yes you are correct with the fuel rail pressure changing, it changes all the time as rmp, load etc changes, whether I have a chip in or not. As for what it's current map was and how it was altered, well I was far too busy reading my caravan mag and next destination rather than worrying about that !
I also have a colleague who has a chipped Touareg towing a 3 ton van with no issues doing a large number of KM's over 2 years, happy as Larry !

So the good thing is you do not need to worry about it Tombie since you are not putting one in. I am putting one in and I am not worrying about it either, so we are all happy !!!

If my engine goes Kaaa Boooom, then I will let you know then you can have a smile....:)

If anyone is interested, then read the FAQ on the DP Chip Web site FAQ | DPChip (http://www.dpchip.com/home/info/faq/) which gives more detail than I could ever give. Check the testimonial area out too, I have included an interesting one based on the insurance comment that was posted earlier

Happy days to all :cool:

Quote taken from testimonials......
"It is important to advise your Motor Vehicle Insurer that you have a D P Chip fitted to your vehicle when completing “accessories or modification” section of your Insurance Proposal declaration. The reason is so the Insurer can increase the vehicle’s value in the event of a total write off claim and NOT for the reason that they can impose an extra premium of refuse a claim. We have contacted both of our Motor Vehicle Insurance underwriters through our Brokers and they have no issues with fitting a DPCHIP (they are different to other Chips available on the market) providing it has been stated on the proposal form or they have been advised that a DPCHIP has been fitted at a later date. We have used DPCHIPs in all our fleet vehicles for some 5 years now without any Insurance issues."

[Tombie]

Well good for you..
Taking that tone...

60,000km is SFA in the design life of an engine - so whilst you are happy the engine is likely wearing quicker - simple principals at stake there...

You are very astute though in your observations that I don't care what piece of electronic (or mechanical) junk you fit to your vehicle.

I do find it greatly amusing (so already have the smile going) that you are blowing excessive cash on the poor substitute rather than a proper remap and diagnostic tool - which cost less than the item you rave about.

Keep trying to justify the unit to yourself... That's the benefit of a free society and choice.

It allows illogical or irrational decisions to be validated in the mind of the purchaser.


It's like choosing between a good woman or an inflatable doll.
Both will get the job done, but one will do it better.

[101RRS]

Keep trying to justify the unit to yourself... That's the benefit of a free society and choice.

It allows illogical or irrational decisions to be validated in the mind of the purchaser.

Cognitive Dissonance comes to mind.

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)

[Kennyboydixon]

Dear Tombie

You have a lot of experience from your posts and thank you's which is obviously very good and I am sure valued by many.

I see you are also from Whyalla, I lived there and worked for BHP in the 80's, interesting place, lots of good friends were made there.

Interesting comment re the blow up doll, you are right, they don't talk back, have headaches, get tired, complain and are always willing, if that is your preference, then no judgement from me

Look, I can see so many problems with Discoveries on this forum, electrical, engines, suspension, compressors gearboxes etc etc, I think a chip is the least of my worries !!! I have not seen any example of any Landrover that has had an engine problem contributed to a DP chip, I have seen MANY engine problems without a DP Chip.

There is a lot of doom and gloom portrayed and I agree there are dodgy chips out there, my opinion based on experience has been very good with them. I already owned it, paid as your state $1500 over 4 years ago, so no new outlay for the D3 for it.

One of my favorite sayings is "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument"
A lot of folks argue against, but no one has shown me any evidence of failures. Even saying my BMW engine would have worn more internally after 60k is pure speculation without pulling it apart and checking it.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the banter and I respect your views and I hope you respect mine, even though you think they are wrong based on argumentative unsubstantiated theory....it also took a while for the folks to believe the earth was round not flat.

Must be time for as drink,

Cheers all

[bsperka]

So why do people think that the world is round? That's a 2D description. It's actually a sphere....

[101RRS]

It's actually a sphere....

More like an oblate spheroid actually ;)

[PeterOZ]

So why do people think that the world is round? That's a 2D description. It's actually a sphere....


I had thought slightly pear shaped but I love a good arguement anyway! :cool:

who said that?
:wasntme:

chill guys it's Friday, who gives a toss. Pay your money and take your chance, bigger things to worry about in life. :p

[dhf]

thinking of getting morepower out of 2.7 diesel 2008 D3,
people have been talking about BAS would someone like Davis Performance Landy do this? Have only had the car 3 months so very new to Land Rover,
all past cars have been toyota...............

[LRD414]

...people have been talking about BAS would someone like Davis Performance Landy do this? ......
Welcome and yes they do and there is others too. Have a read of these. If you search you'll no doubt find more.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/189335-d3-chip-upgrade-davis-performance-susp-options-coil-susp.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/193230-chipping-d3.html

Scott

[NomadicD3]

thinking of getting morepower out of 2.7 diesel 2008 D3,
people have been talking about BAS would someone like Davis Performance Landy do this? Have only had the car 3 months so very new to Land Rover,
all past cars have been toyota...............

Hi DHF and welcome,
I think you will find these days many of the local indi w'shops are writing ECU maps to suit your needs. I know we have a couple here in Perth that are charging between $800-$1100 for ECU maps installed. You should probably ask Ritters if they do them. As I'm sure you are aware, get a lot of detail on what it is they are actually doing. As I'm sure you are aware chips are a bad idea both for your vehicle and your waist line:D. Personally I went with a BAS remap and a larger inter cooler but that was 6 years ago now, so I can't give you any real info on the maps the local guys are writing and installing themselves.
Happy researching
Brian