Problems following accident

[JDNSW]

As I mentioned in another thread, last week I had an accident, where a red 'P' plater ran into the back of my trailer, resulting in minor damage to the trailer and major damage to the 110.

The good news is that the other driver has admitted liability, and his insurer has accepted this. The bad news is it is the same company I am insured with.

I took the 110 into town yesterday, and saw the Insurer's preferred repairer. He looked at the job and said he would have problems finding room to do it as it would be a body off job. He said he would have to get an assessor to look at it (didn't say, but presumably to see if he could get it written off).

I phoned the insurer to find out what was happening. They phoned the repairer, and he told them that he was not going to quote, as he could not touch it for two months. So I asked the Insurer, where to from here? They gave me the phone numbers of their other two repairers in town. After getting off the phone I rang them. One said he could not even look at it until "mid-January". The other said he could only look at new work after 12th January. I have not tried other panelbeaters in town, but I would expect the answer to be similar from all of them. (lots of roos round here)

Other phone calls I made on Monday failed to find anyone with a new crossmember in Australia. They are, of course, readily available ex UK. While a second hand one may be found, it would probably want to be from an inland vehicle because of rust.

So it seems I have a problem - I can't tow with it; it is driveable, but the rear door is not shutting properly, and it will probably be two months before I can even find out what is going to happen.

Anyone got any bright ideas? One thought occurs to me is to get it trucked to a bigger centre with more repairers, but I would not be surprised if the same or a similar situation pertained elsewhere. And I would need to have a commitment to repair it and a definite time frame, and an equivalent hire car at the insurer's expense (which they have committed to). And I am reluctant to let it too far out of my sight.

So far I have spent several hours on the phone (mostly on hold) talking to the insurer, not to mention a 120km round trip to get it assessed which did not happen.

John

[jonesfam]

I would get the insurer to truck it to a major centre, do a hire car & see how it goes.
Insurance work is supposed to be guaranteed, isn't it?
Jonesfam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Bad luck John

The other driver's insurance is responsible for the repair, they can't write the vehicle off if you don't go through your insurer.

I have a complete V8 110 county rolling chassis and body (early one with series type door handles) its going to be dismantled. We could donor the rear cross member off that if you'd like. I know its a big trip but you're welcome to come and check it out. Its near Prestons in SW Sydney

Diana

[JDNSW]

I would get the insurer to truck it to a major centre, do a hire car & see how it goes.
Insurance work is supposed to be guaranteed, isn't it?
Jonesfam

Yes, that is what I would like to see happen, but I would need to have a guarantee that the Insurer was not going to write it off before agreeing to this. They would have an incentive to do this, and there is no way that any likely sum they value it at would allow me to replace it.

I should point out that the damage is confined to the cross member and tow bar except for minor buckling of the door sill where it is bolted to the crossmember and a barely perceptible dent in the fuel tank guard.

I am awaiting either a call or email from the insurer to discuss this, but I am reluctant to call them because of the length of time I am likely to be on hold. Even the direct number they gave me was on hold yesterday for thirteen minutes.

John

[jonesfam]

I have insured for agreed value, not market value.
So if the worst should happen I can, hopefully, replace the D3 with something similar.
Does cost a bit more though.
Jonesfam

[Tote]

If the crossmembers are available ex UK I would still view that as a viable option. A repairer here got a transfer case for my D3 from the UK in 4 days and including freight it was half the price LR aust could supply it for.
I once had a car shipped to Sydney for repair after a big hailstorm in Orange due to the time taken for repairs locally and it was a most unsatisfactory experience. The repairer in Sydney was only interested in pushing the jobs through and had little regard for the quality of work done as he figured that I wouldnt be likely to take it back for warranty repairs.
If the vehicle is drivable I'd book it in and wait for repairs locally after assisting the repairer to source parts if necessary. Its amazing how it's easier for a business to pass up work by writing a vehicle off rather than doing more than just ringing their parts supplier and saying, sorry can't source the parts.

Regards,

Tote

[CraigE]

I have insured for agreed value, not market value.
So if the worst should happen I can, hopefully, replace the D3 with something similar.
Does cost a bit more though.
Jonesfam

Yes but watch your value decrease even with agreed value. It still goes down every year.

[Bigbjorn]

Incisor got a cross member folded up to replace the rusted one on his 110. Any competent press shop can do this. They will need a proper drawing or a horrible example.

[p38arover]

John, Dervish has a complete 110 rolling chassis for sale. It was at Windsor when I saw it last week.

[V8Ian]

You can choose your repairer, the insurance company has no right to dictate where it is repaired or asses the vehicle. Technically, if you got quoted $20,000 the reinstate your car to the condition it was before the accident, they have to pay it; but you could have a fight on your hands if the costs were excessive.
You could also contract your choice of repairer, with a liquidator damages clause.
You are entitled to expenses incurred, such as tow trucks, taxis, hire cars et al, but again, excess amounts will invite retaliation.

[jonesfam]

Yes but watch your value decrease even with agreed value. It still goes down every year.

I will have to check that out, I didn't know that.
Thanks

[JDNSW]

You can choose your repairer, the insurance company has no right to dictate where it is repaired or asses the vehicle. Technically, if you got quoted $20,000 the reinstate your car to the condition it was before the accident, they have to pay it; but you could have a fight on your hands if the costs were excessive.
You could also contract your choice of repairer, with a liquidator damages clause.
You are entitled to expenses incurred, such as tow trucks, taxis, hire cars et al, but again, excess amounts will invite retaliation.

Yes, I am aware of this. The problems are that it seems that the local smash repair business has a substantial backlog of work. And I do not have the time or capital to be chasing round afield for someone to do the work - I would have to drive there, get a quote, and, most probably pay at least a deposit while I tried to to get the money out of the Insurer. Same goes for getting a hire car.

Where if I get the insurer to handle things I don't have to lay out money, which, OK, I may be entitled to, but if I have to go to court to get it, I could be out of pocket for some considerable time, a bit hard on a pension. Of course, I could do nothing until I have the money from the insurer, but I really need to get it fixed. And I do not know what they would consider excessive costs.

John

[UncleHo]

If your insurer wants to write the vehicle off, as an Un-economical repair, and not as a UN-repairable write off, I would request the wreck,and take the $$$ and then purchase a rear X member ex UK (Richards Chassis do a rear X member from memory)or one from "Bearmach" and get it welded on at you local panel shop ;)

[p38arover]

As I understand it, all write-offs in NSW are now statutory write-offs and the vehilces cannot be re-registered except in special circumstances, e.g., rare or historic vehicles.

[boa]

I was in RACV a while ago and overhead a client who was renewing his insurance the person behind the counter said be careful. As there is no pre inspection if after an accident it is determined that you vehicle is not worth what you say it is they will not pay agreed value. Because you provided false information. The vehicle was not as in a condition as you said it was. Possibly a reaction to insurance fraud?.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

As I understand it, all write-offs in NSW are now statutory write-offs and the vehilces cannot be re-registered except in special circumstances, e.g., rare or historic vehicles.Exactly and that is the reason that you don't want your insurance company having anything to do with an accident where the other party is at fault. If the insurance has no title to your car they can't slap a WOV on it.

[jerryd]

pm sent John regarding a rear cross member section.

[JDNSW]

Thanks jerryd, unfortunately not compatible. While my enquiries have suggested there are no new crossmembers in Australia, several suppliers I have talked to have said they can supply new with about two weeks delivery.

To restate the situation.

I have two problems.

The first is that it seems that local repairers will not be able to even look at it for about two months. Spreading the net wider is a possibility, and one that the Insurer is looking at following a phone conversation late this afternoon (another hour on the phone, 32min of which were on hold). The problem with this is the logistics and loss of any control over what is happening. See problem two.

The second problem is the possibility that they may want to write off the vehicle, with the quoted repair cost exceeding the difference between market value and salvage value. I will not let the vehicle out of my control until I am satisfied this is not going to happen. In that case I will have little choice but to get a firm repair quote and send the owner (who will pass it on to the Insurer) a letter of demand for that amount plus my costs including my time and the use of a hire car while it is being repaired, and, of course, the solicitor's charges, plus interest.

The Insurer has already agreed to supplying an equivalent hire car while it is in the hands of the repairer, but I have told them I will not agree to some of the terms for this that they want to impose, including that I put up a deposit to the hire company and pay the insurance loading.

Mind you, none of this is in writing yet, so we will have to see what actually happens. They are supposed to phone me back tomorrow morning.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

John

Have you spread your net a little wider for a repairer, perhaps Mudgee or Lithgow?

Diana

[JDNSW]

John

Have you spread your net a little wider for a repairer, perhaps Mudgee or Lithgow?

Diana

No, but the Insurer has agreed to do this (note that the claim is not on my insurance, but the other driver's, although unfortunately it is the same company). One suggestion I have made to them is that Canberra is a possibility, as I will be going to Yass at the end of term to pick up my grandchildren for Christmas.

John

[Tote]

I was going to suggest that, unfortunately there is no longer a panel beater in Yass. If you need somewhere to stash a vehicle we've got a big backyard.

Regards,
Tote

[Tank]

John, Wagga has a large truck repair industry, I had a car written off by my insurance company, they offered me $1800 for a car I paid $17,000 for, so I told them to stick it and sued the other driver, got a quote to repair my car for $10,000.
Won the court case other driver had to pay all costs, court awarded $9,500, scrapped the car and went and bought a better car, Good Luck, Regards Frank.

[JDNSW]

John, Wagga has a large truck repair industry, I had a car written off by my insurance company, they offered me $1800 for a car I paid $17,000 for, so I told them to stick it and sued the other driver, got a quote to repair my car for $10,000.
Won the court case other driver had to pay all costs, court awarded $9,500, scrapped the car and went and bought a better car, Good Luck, Regards Frank.

Thanks for the information, Frank. We have not got to that stage yet, and I hope we will not. But I am reasonably confident that it won't come to that.

John

[JDNSW]

Looks like we may be getting somewhere.

The Insurer has phoned round and found a local (Dubbo) repairer who has just reopened their doors after their premises burnt down, so they have no backlog of work (and no, it was not an insurance job on their part - the fire spread from next door).

I am booked in next Tuesday.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi John

I'll take some images of the rear cross member of the 110 at the CSA tomorrow and post them up. If you need it I'll then get the gas axe out and cut the rails.

Diana

[JDNSW]

Hi John

I'll take some images of the rear cross member of the 110 at the CSA tomorrow and post them up. If you need it I'll then get the gas axe out and cut the rails.

Diana

Thanks Diana, but when I was talking to the repairer this morning, and I said I'd be happy with a second hand one provided it was rust free, and that I could probably locate one, they said that they only use new parts. We'll have to see if they stick to the tune when they actually try to get a new one.

While we are at it, the cross member appears to have changed part number in 1990 - does anyone know what the actual differences are?

John

[JDNSW]

Just got off the phone to the insurer. One useful bit of information that they provided is that since the vehicle is over sixteen years old, they do not have to put it on the written off vehicles register, even if they write it off.

I am still arguing with them over a deposit on the hire car they are going to provide.

John

[JDNSW]

Got some good news this morning. They are going to repair my car! But they have been quoted six weeks delivery on a replacement crossmember, so I am getting the car back tomorrow and they will let me know when they get the parts.

John

[winaje]

Fantastic news John, very happy for you.

[JDNSW]

Well, I got the car back yesterday, but found that the repairer that it was at is not repairing it. So I have spent all day today trying to find out what is going on.

About ten minutes ago I finally got to talk to the assessor, who was supposed to call me yesterday and didn't. The problem he has is twofold. Firstly he needed to know whether I wanted them to repair it or to get a quote and pay me. Secondly, sourcing a new crossmember is going to take weeks unless they can find one in Australia, and they are trying to find a repairer willing to take on the job. I told them to go ahead, but heaven knows when anything will happen.

John

[The ho har's]

Great news they are going to repair it, but looks like it may take a while:(

Mrs hh:angel:

[JDNSW]

Had a talk to the assessor yesterday. He says he is having problems finding anyone prepared to take on the repairs.

Anyone got any suggestions I could pass on to him? Preferably near here.

John

[Tote]

These blokes Tony Farrugia Bodyworks Pty Ltd (http://www.tonyfarrugia.com.au/) might be interested. Being the recommended ACT Land Rover repairer they might at least understand what's involved.

Regards,
Tote

[JDNSW]

On the 23rd, at the assessor's request, I saw anther repairer.

He is a bit perplexed as to what is involved, and to help him, I would like to be able to give him some information.

With this in mind, can anyone point me to a 110 body diagram that shows what is involved in removing or disassembling the body? Or perhaps a link to a video showing body removal or even body disassembly?

John

[Chucaro]

John, I just wonder if the public library near you or any member here has the Haynes Land Rover 90 110 and Defender Restoration Manual (http://www.paddockspares.com/h600-land-rover-90-110-and-defender-restoration-manual.html)

Perhaps on it is enough information for the insurance mob.

Cheers

[Chucaro]

just to add to my previus post the book can be purchase HERE (http://www.bookdepository.com/Land-Rover-90-110-Defender-Restoration-Manual-Lindsay-Porter/9780857334794'redirected=true&gclid=Cj0KEQiA_ZOlBRD64c7-gOzvrP0BEiQAAYBnd5siZ9Y4Oyo6MmD2AE0oAgprCAg0Drtnib 9sQIwIwpsaAmaG8P8HAQ) as well

[JDNSW]

Thanks for that, but I was really looking for something I could email to him just to allow him to make an estimate.

The problem he has is that he has never worked on a similar repair - in theory the insurer requires him to use their software to estimate man hours - but Landrover 110 is not covered by the software, and the only job on a Defender that is covered is a complete repaint. Hence he is rather lost.

John

[JDNSW]

The news today is that the repairer in the last post has agreed to carry out repairs, and has ordered parts. Got this from my case manage at the insurer when he called me this afternoon, after trying to phone him twice on Friday and twice on Monday.

I will phone the repairer tomorrow and see if he can give me a time.

John

[87County]

Looks like some resolution at last - that's good :).

Tenacity wins ? I hope it works out well.

[JDNSW]

Update; The repairer I mentioned in my last post had not, in fact actually ordered parts. In fact, he had not even in fact done anything, except dicker with the insurer about how he was going to quote.

So a week ago I went in to the insurer's office in Dubbo, and metaphorically thumped the table. As a result I was told that the assessor would call me Monday this week to report on progress. The next day I got a phone call from the repairer asking for the details of the parts sources I had mentioned to him when I saw him in earlier. I gave him the names of a couple of the nearest (All Four x 4, and Land Vehicle Spares) that I have dealt with and found OK.

No call this Monday, so yesterday I went in to the repairer. He has actually ordered a crossmember from Land Vehicle Spares, and it may be here as soon as next week (they stock one, and this is a replacement for their stock, which was already on the way). So the repairs may actually be ready to start as soon as the week after next.

John

[Chucaro]

They take their time, I have my 406 coup? on the mechanic with electric problems since mid December and appears that they will look into it nex week or so :(

Never ever any more a vehicle with electronics :mad:

[87County]

.........
Never ever any more a vehicle with electronics :mad:

Bit hard to avoid if you want modern gimmicks Chucaro (unless you buy selected pre'98 vehicles)

... and there's always a perentie I guess :)

[bob10]

This may help, Bob


How to remove a complete 110 body from the chassis - Land Rover Technical Archive - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=89594)
or this


how to remove 110 csw tub? - Defender Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=76806)


Removing the whole body in one go to swap chassis? - Defender Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=90267)

[bob10]

Also try to source Mark Evans 4X4 is born series on the internet. Bob

[Chucaro]

Bit hard to avoid if you want modern gimmicks Chucaro (unless you buy selected pre'98 vehicles)

... and there's always a perentie I guess :)

I know mate, I made a mistake when I sold the 1995 Defe to get a sedan.
Now I have the 1986 RRC manual and if I have to go to auto (heralth reasons) will be a Disco Tdi300 or a RRC auto. :)
dreaming with a F100 old ute but they are asking gold for the good ones :(

[bob10]

I hope it works out for you. I need to know if my suggestions may have helped, otherwise I'll keep them to myself. Bob

[JDNSW]

Well, we now have a firm start date - as a result of another marathon session on the phone.

Repairs should start on 2nd March, that is, next Monday. Estimate is "at least two weeks".

John

[JDNSW]

Well, dropped the car at the panelbeaters this morning 0900, and it was going up on the hoist as I left with a lift to Hertz to pick up a rented Patrol.

Interesting comparison on the trip back home. First thing I noticed was the blinkers are on the other side. Yes, I signalled at the first roundabout with the wipers!

The Patrol is a bit quieter than the 110, and definitely a lot smoother engine. But it rides (much) worse than the 110, has just as many rattles, and has worse steering and handling. And within ten kilometres, my back was aching.

I think it rides worse than my 2a, now that it has station wagon springs. I nearly got out to have a look and see if it really does have springs.

John

[Xtreme]

Interesting comment re the back ache John.
When I was working I had the option of a Landcruiser or a Patrol and opted for the Patrol as after about 20kms in the Cruiser my back was aching but didn't have a problem with the Patrol.

I hope the repair goes well for you.

[JDNSW]

Interesting comment re the back ache John.
When I was working I had the option of a Landcruiser or a Patrol and opted for the Patrol as after about 20kms in the Cruiser my back was aching but didn't have a problem with the Patrol.

I hope the repair goes well for you.

I'd be surprised if everyone had the same shaped back! Thanks for the thought.

John

[460cixy]

My patrol used to send my legs to sleep. Good you see you are geting some where with getting the 110 sorted

[jimr1]

Hi john , I've been following all your posts , It's good your finally getting the 110 fixed . What was the repair in the end ? New cross member , and anything else ? Jim..

[JDNSW]

Hi john , I've been following all your posts , It's good your finally getting the 110 fixed . What was the repair in the end ? New cross member , and anything else ? Jim..

New crossmember and some fairly minor panelbeating to the sill of the rear door opening. Probably also minor panel beating to the fuel tank guard, and straighten the towbar.

John

[jimr1]

Thanks for the update , Some years ago I had a shot wheel series 3 , call a Game , anyway the rear cross had rusted out , " reversing into salt water " I got a new one from the UK , I went over to a mates house who is a welder . We disconnected the rear lights , pulled the cables back down the chassis on a drew wire , undid the rear bolts body , cut the chassis with an angle grinder , slipped the new one over the top , " It's made that way " re bolted then welded It together , reconnected the lights , all in all about 5 hrs work . When I heard you say they have to take the body off , well you can make your own mind up on that ! The thing is It's getting fixed , so good luck to you on that , because It's been a while in waiting !!.. Jim

[JDNSW]

Thanks for the update , Some years ago I had a shot wheel series 3 , call a Game , anyway the rear cross had rusted out , " reversing into salt water " I got a new one from the UK , I went over to a mates house who is a welder . We disconnected the rear lights , pulled the cables back down the chassis on a drew wire , undid the rear bolts body , cut the chassis with an angle grinder , slipped the new one over the top , " It's made that way " re bolted then welded It together , reconnected the lights , all in all about 5 hrs work . When I heard you say they have to take the body off , well you can make your own mind up on that ! The thing is It's getting fixed , so good luck to you on that , because It's been a while in waiting !!.. Jim

The basic problem, I think, has been that none of the local panelbeaters has done anything like this before and simply don't want to do anything out of the ordinary. They have no reason to have to do so, as they have plenty of work (mainly roos) without doing difficult jobs.

Not helped by the fact that the insurance companies all require repairers to quote using approved software for the amount of labour - and the approved software has no knowledge of 110s, and only limited knowledge even on current Defenders, not covering any chassis repairs.

John

[JDNSW]

On my trip to town yesterday I dropped in to the panel beater to see how he was going. I did not actually 'see' much, as he does not allow access to the workshop, probably for insurance reasons, but I did see the 110 on a hoist at the back of the shed, but as I was looking at the side, it was a bit hard to see what they have done, although it looked as if the new cross member is in place.

He said it was possibly going to be finished that day, but I did not want to stay in town on the off chance, so, since I have to go in for a meeting Thursday (tomorrow) night, I have arranged to get it then and return the hire car.

John

[JDNSW]

I just realised I had not finished this thread off.

I picked the car up on Thursday, and it looks as if the repairs have been performed satisfactorily. They fitted a new crossmember supplied by Land Vehicle Spares, and, I understand, also got some advice from them.

John

[vnx205]

That only took four months.

It must feel good to have that resolved at last.