6X6 Rear suspension travel and how to improve it.

[TK_Co]

This is a topic to discuss the pro's and con's of 6x6 suspension travel and how to remedy there inability. In other threads there have been discussions on why there is such little travel.

Hopefully with the collective brains trust we can come up with a solution.

Some suggestions have been,
Camelback suspension like on the old Macs, or Modifying the rocker beam.

What ideas do you have?


Just catching the perentie bug.

• 1990 Perentie 6x6 Air Defence GS
•2013 Range Rover Sport

[TK_Co]

Maybe something like this? ( bit technical tho)

[TK_Co]

Camel back ?

[Mick_Marsh]

I like the camel back arrangement. I think that is what Bill had on his 2a.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZuJHchxpvQ
Or, maybe not. Does anyone know what Bill did to built his 6x6?

[303gunner]

The Camelback (or something along those lines) with torque rods is what the Studebaker 6x6 has and it performs superbly. However, the Studie has much longer driveshafts and the wheelbase between rear axles to allow clearance at full travel.

[Dervish]

I like the camel back arrangement. I think that is what Bill had on his 2a.
Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZuJHchxpvQ)
Or, maybe not. Does anyone know what Bill did to built his 6x6?

Bill talked about his 6x6 in this thread (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=81152), which is otherwise a little ridiculous but worth reading for Bill's input. I believe his 2a had a walking beam setup, which I think is the same as a camelback (I haven't heard that name before).

Anyway, that thread covers what is necessary to make a capable 6x6; Bill even mentions the 6x6 Perenties at one point.

Changing anything structural to gain articulation would be the beginning of a slippery slope, and probably have you wishing you just bought a Mog. The simplest fix is probably to somehow space the axles out so that you could fit 35s or 9.00r16s. That would get you the approach, departure and ramp over angles required for a capable offroad vehicle of that size (HUGE). Then fit lockers.

It won't have much in the way of articulation, but it will still go just about everywhere.

[isuzurover]

...I believe his 2a had a walking beam setup, which I think is the same as a camelback (I haven't heard that name before).

...

A camelback is a centrally mounted pivoting leaf spring. A walking beam is a pivoting beam connecting the axles (which may be sprung) - but not necessarily by a leaf spring(s). There are air spring walking beam setups in many trucks. I suppose a camelback would still be considered one type of walking beam suspension.

A variation on this setup would be good! The main beam could bolt into the front spring hanger
http://www.hendrickson-intl.com/getattachment/97778a5b-6e88-4fa9-acaa-40ed96c8b1c8/Conversion-Kits.aspx,.pdf'maxsidesize=406
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/11/187.jpg

[PeteFox]

Has anyone thought about Simplicity Suspension, an independent leaf spring (camel back type) suspension that is already tried and tested. Comes in ratings from 2000kg to 4500kg and had ADR approval for caravans anyway. At least it's off the shelf and doesn't have to be invented though adaptation to a 6x6 might take a bit of doing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/11/186.jpg

[lr110qld]

These pics show some of the suspension arrangement of a 6x6 G-wagen in the UK.

I have a gut feeling it was a conversion carried out in the UK, but they do have a factory look.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88612&stc=1&d=1419036683

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88613&stc=1&d=1419036749

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88614&stc=1&d=1419036749

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88615&stc=1&d=1419036749

[TK_Co]

Thanks for that. Looks similar to the ikea 6x6 being built. Coil sprung rear end. I found another suspension set up on a cruiser, similar to a camel back, but can't upload it. I like the idea of coil sprung rear end. Should give more independence between axles.


Just catching the perentie bug.

1990 Perentie 6x6 Air Defence GS ARM 51867
2013 Range Rover Sport
1996 6X6 Infantry Carrier Hard Top ARN 202238

[TK_Co]

Maybe this will show the image

[lr110qld]

Thanks for that. Looks similar to the ikea 6x6 being built. Coil sprung rear end. I found another suspension set up on a cruiser, similar to a camel back, but can't upload it. I like the idea of coil sprung rear end. Should give more independence between axles.


Just catching the perentie bug.

1990 Perentie 6x6 Air Defence GS ARM 51867
2013 Range Rover Sport
1996 6X6 Infantry Carrier Hard Top ARN 202238
The problem/downfall with that suspension is the lack of load sharing.

Replace the coils with air springs and couple together the pairs on the same side will go a long way toward fixing that.

[123rover50]

Bill talked about his 6x6 in this thread (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=81152), which is otherwise a little ridiculous but worth reading for Bill's input. I believe his 2a had a walking beam setup, which I think is the same as a camelback (I haven't heard that name before).

Anyway, that thread covers what is necessary to make a capable 6x6; Bill even mentions the 6x6 Perenties at one point.

Changing anything structural to gain articulation would be the beginning of a slippery slope, and probably have you wishing you just bought a Mog. The simplest fix is probably to somehow space the axles out so that you could fit 35s or 9.00r16s. That would get you the approach, departure and ramp over angles required for a capable offroad vehicle of that size (HUGE). Then fit lockers.

It won't have much in the way of articulation, but it will still go just about everywhere.

Thats what I did with mine.
Spaced the rear axles apart 25mm each. Run 900x16s.
Factory difflocks.
Lack of articulation does not matter much.

[101 Ron]

The Camelback (or something along those lines) with torque rods is what the Studebaker 6x6 has and it performs superbly. However, the Studie has much longer driveshafts and the wheelbase between rear axles to allow clearance at full travel.

The rear end on a Studebaker is not the best travel wise and I find I

can pick up intermediate or and rear axle without to much trouble if driving a gully head on.
Driving a gully slightly side on is a different story as the Studebaker's good chassis flex and Three point mounting of cabin and engine/transmission comes in nto play.
The tail shafts of Studebaker will rub on stuff on full travel.
Walking beam is the best set up for good intermidate and rear axles for good ground following if set up for it.
Do a you tube search for Scammell explorer witch also has a equaliser pivot on the front axle too.
Diff locks are not needed with the set up on the Explorer as all tyres have full vehicle weight on them at all times so traction is rarely lost.
Other pommy militiary trucks used this set up too......militant, pioneer etc.
The best starting point to build a walking beam rear end is a 4x4 chassis and not a 6x6 chassis.
Walking beam off road conversions of 4x4 trucks to 6x6 was popular in the late 1930s in Europe.

[33chinacars]

Something a little different but seems to work well

Our achievements | Robert Lorenc (http://www.rlorenc.com/en)

[4x4 MORE]

Another interesting concept I saw on "Britain's Greatest Machines With Chris Barrie"

Was the Scammell Lorry..with a very unique rear suspension set up..
Not 4x4..but still very very capable in the bush:)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/285.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/286.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/287.jpg

[4x4 MORE]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/284.jpg

http://freespace.virgin.net/scammell.man/walkingbeam2.gif

[101 Ron]

That above is what I was talking about scamell pioneer/explorer and used on lots of other stuff ............long travel walking beam.

[4x4 MORE]

Ahh ok mate, it's incredible stuff!..and to think they invented it soo long ago!:eek::eek:

[Outback]

If I pick up a Perentie 6x6 I would first add either and air locker or Detroit locker to each rear axle. Most likely a dual air locker setup. I would install 255/85R16 Toyo MTs and Koni Raid shocks. I would run this set up and see how she does. I do not believe these rigs would be used as a rock crawler other than what is found on standard tracks. They are long and wide. I see this setup along with a selectable locker up front as an excellent long distance rig capable in everyday situations. Dunes would be much easier as long as the crest isn't extreme. Even then a bit more ummph at the top would see you clear. Add some bead locks or Staun internal bead locks and you could get the pressure down very low without risk of loosing a bead or spinning the rim in the tire. Again very capable and certainly very capable in the context of this forum which seems to be geared more towards exploring Australia with family and friends. Rather than extreme rock crawling or Mud Bogging. I don't know enough about the Cape York track to comment on. But would love to try it in a 6x6 anyway. If one could reduce the over hang on a 6x6 then that would help for sure.

[Blknight.aus]

the capes doable in a 6x6.

[123rover50]

The Capes doable in virtually anything.
When we went up in the 80,s there were vintage cars up there.
Forded the Wenlock and all:o

[TK_Co]

If I pick up a Perentie 6x6 I would first add either and air locker or Detroit locker to each rear axle. Most likely a dual air locker setup. I would install 255/85R16 Toyo MTs and Koni Raid shocks. .

I've not had any experience with Koni shocks, however, I did have the standard shocks on some pretty extreme corrugations for about 3 hrs and the handled well and barely even got warm. I was pleasantly surprised.

I would put the money towards aircon and noise deadening or get those noise cancelling walkie talkie ear muffs. Like helicopters!! That would be cool !! ....sorry, off topic tangent



Just catching the perentie bug.

1990 Perentie 6x6 Air Defence GS ARM 51867
2013 Range Rover Sport
1996 6X6 Infantry Carrier Hard Top ARN 202238