Defender 90 (2012) Clutch / Gerar Box noise

[Defender90007]

I've got a 2012 Defender 90 (still under warranty) I've noticed over the last 1 - 2 weeks that when it's idling (foot off the clutch) it sounds like a cold rattly diesel motor from the 70's however, when I put my foot on the clutch it sounds like it should, as quiet as a diesel motor can be. Any ideas what could be causing all the noise ?
It doesn't seem to matter if the motor is cold or normal operating temperature, the noise is still there. The fact that putting my foot on the clutch stops the excess noise would suggest the noise is clutch related wouldn't it ?
I'm no mechanic and it is going in to be looked at but just wondering if anyone else had experiencing anything similar with a model around the same age ?

[brendanm]

Mine was exactly the same. Landrover who had been doing the maintenance said it required a new clutch and quoted $3600(not in warranty 2008 model 150k on the clock). I was getting tired of landrovers poor quality workmanship having to continually return the vehicle. The maintenance through them was a remnant of the lease. At that cost I got a second opinion from a friend who is a local mechanic and 4wd enthusiast. He tested the clutch by driving costing then let the clutch out with a few extra revs. He then pushed the lever nearly into gear without use of the clutch and the noise all but subsided. He determined that the noise was more likely from the gearbox. I think later models such as yours had heavier duty springs in the clutch plate.
So in offering the work to him he said don't worry about it for the moment the clutch still has a bit of life in it. That was over a year ago. The gear box has continued to get noisier though still operates fine. The rattle is more pronounced at idle than any other time.
If under warranty I am sure they will replace the clutch, though I would be questioning the gearbox as a lead into any post work you may not be happy with if as I suspect the some noise could remain in the same circumstances.

[Defender90007]

I'm a member of the Land Rover Register of South Australia and a few people have also told me that my model should have the heavier duty clutch fitted. My mechanic (PCB Land Rover) unfortunately is not authorized to do warranty work so I have to rely on Solitaire Automotive to do the right thing which concerns me a bit after my first and only experience with them about 12 months ago. The warranty in still valid till February 2015 so hopefully I can get it sorted out by then. Thanks for the information you provided.

[YOLO110]

I've got a 2012 Defender 90 (still under warranty) I've noticed over the last 1 - 2 weeks that when it's idling (foot off the clutch) it sounds like a cold rattly diesel motor from the 70's however, when I put my foot on the clutch it sounds like it should, as quiet as a diesel motor can be. Any ideas what could be causing all the noise ?
It doesn't seem to matter if the motor is cold or normal operating temperature, the noise is still there. The fact that putting my foot on the clutch stops the excess noise would suggest the noise is clutch related wouldn't it ?
I'm no mechanic and it is going in to be looked at but just wondering if anyone else had experiencing anything similar with a model around the same age ?

I am not a mechanic but this sounds like a 'Clutch Release Bearing'.

As the ball bearings in the bearing housing wear, they sometimes begin to rattle and thats the noise you can hear. It goes away when you push the clutch in as you are now loading the bearing surface.

Nothing really to worry about, it will just get noisier. Not sure however if in a LR this may mean the bearing is breaking up so obviously get your mechanic to check it out.

Cheers, Pete :)

[Defender90007]

I probably should mention it hasn't done 50K km's yet and just for the record, "No" I don't ride the clutch, being an "Ex Truckie" I'd like to think I know how to change gears. :)
Thanks again for all the feedback.

[JamesP]

Hi, sounds like the clutch throw bearing. Heavy duty on highway trucks make a similar noise where they rattle big time, put your foot on the clutch just to add a small amount of pressure and the noise will stop.
If the clutch doesn't slip then the plates are ok. If when releasing the clutch the vehicle does not shudder then the flywheel is ok and doesn't need skimming.
It is under warranty so request your local Landrover dealer fix it because it is not normal. Probably won't let you down but suggest get the throw out bearing replaced.

Regards

[85county]

I have a 2.2 TDCI with 40k and it started rattling a few weeks ago, exactly as you describe. Sometimes it sounds normal on startup, but once I press down on the clutch and release it, the rattle is there and it's getting progressively louder. The LR mechanic went for a drive with me and also recorded the changes in sound. I'm pleased that he did because it's going to be fixed under warranty. I get the feeling that this is not an uncommon issue. Land Rover have supplied the necessary parts to the dealer and the Defender is booked in for the 4th and 5th December, a week after my warranty has expired. Here's hoping that it's only the release bearing and nothing down the line in the gearbox.

[Defender90007]

Hi 85county, let me know the outcome after your cars been in for repair.

[justinc]

Usually replacing that good old Puma clutch will fix that noise,:D

I have done a few now with that same fault, the torsional vibration through the friction plate centre and damper springs cause the mainshaft to 'clack' at idle, new upgraded clutch solved the problem. The transmission in these vehicles rarely gives any issues at all.

I wish I could get away with charging $3600 though!!!:eek:

About half that was the last one I did from memory, and that was using AP or similar decent quality clutch kit, and a new slave cylinder/ throwout bearing assembly. (these DO NOT come in the clutch 'kit' )

JC

[justinc]

Mine was exactly the same. Landrover who had been doing the maintenance said it required a new clutch and quoted $3600(not in warranty 2008 model 150k on the clock). I was getting tired of landrovers poor quality workmanship having to continually return the vehicle. The maintenance through them was a remnant of the lease. At that cost I got a second opinion from a friend who is a local mechanic and 4wd enthusiast. He tested the clutch by driving costing then let the clutch out with a few extra revs. He then pushed the lever nearly into gear without use of the clutch and the noise all but subsided. He determined that the noise was more likely from the gearbox. I think later models such as yours had heavier duty springs in the clutch plate.
So in offering the work to him he said don't worry about it for the moment the clutch still has a bit of life in it. That was over a year ago. The gear box has continued to get noisier though still operates fine. The rattle is more pronounced at idle than any other time.
If under warranty I am sure they will replace the clutch, though I would be questioning the gearbox as a lead into any post work you may not be happy with if as I suspect the some noise could remain in the same circumstances.


Sorry I wasn't in a position to fit a clutch while you were down here Brendan, IME it is all that is wrong when that noise is evident.

JC

[85county]

Hi Defender90007, the release bearing was fine but the springs in the clutch friction plate were shot! See my post in: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2288551#post2288551
Land Rover supplied an AP clutch kit. Thanks to justinc's comments in this thread - the advice is spot-on!

I also had two new spacer bushes fitted in the gear shift and this has made for smoother changes from 1st to 2nd. Refer to technical bulletin LTB00585 22Aug 2013.

[ezyrama]

Have a look at
"the tardis is out of action "
thread, just went through the same thing with Landrover, they replaced the gearbox, clutch kit etc under warranty. There is a service bulletin out on noisey output shaft in 2012 models, mine had rust coming off shaft in box.
Good luck,
my dealer was quite good about it all, nice attitude towards the delay in getting it sorted on my behalf helped though (9 days). They had to source a new gearbox from melbourne.

[travelrover]

Hi all


Just found this old post but is relevant to an issue I have identified. I just bought a 2012 90 with 31k on it from a dealer in Melbourne, trucked up to Sydney last week. It underwent an RACV test prior to purchase with no issues found.


I have only done around 180 mainly country kilometres in it over the weekend (on sealed and gravel roads) but had a couple of incidents where I was unable to smoothly change gear from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. There was significant shudder. Even when the clutch was fully engaged and accelerating there was a severe shudder (akin to the kangaroo hoping when I was learning to drive almost 50 years ago). Is this indication of a clutch issue? (or more a need to adapt my driving style? It seems that quick crisp changes are the order of the day) Has anyone else had this problem? Are there any external clutch adjustments on this model? Any thoughts?


Other than that it drives very well, but getting use to the 6 speed box and all those gear changes after driving my TD5 for 16 years takes some getting used to as do those ridiculously noisy Goodyear Wrangler MT/R tyres. They will have to go.


Appreciate any suggestions. Anyone interested in the tyres?


Cheers - Simon

[DazzaTD5]

Usually replacing that good old Puma clutch will fix that noise,:D

I have done a few now with that same fault, the torsional vibration through the friction plate centre and damper springs cause the mainshaft to 'clack' at idle, new upgraded clutch solved the problem. The transmission in these vehicles rarely gives any issues at all.

I wish I could get away with charging $3600 though!!!:eek:

About half that was the last one I did from memory, and that was using AP or similar decent quality clutch kit, and a new slave cylinder/ throwout bearing assembly. (these DO NOT come in the clutch 'kit' )

JC

x2 word for word what JC has said.

$3600 !!! good grief... HALF that price is what I also charge using a AP brand kit, new slave/throw assembly, machine flywheel.

Regards
Daz

[karlz]

I've got a 2012 Defender 90 (still under warranty) I've noticed over the last 1 - 2 weeks that when it's idling (foot off the clutch) it sounds like a cold rattly diesel motor from the 70's however, when I put my foot on the clutch it sounds like it should,

You need to read this thread about adapter shaft and clutch rattle (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/236804-warranty-about-expire-clutch-rattles-adapter-shaft-door-servo.html)

Mine had same problem, it took the dealer 2 goes to get it right.
They ended up replacing the master cylinder, slave cylinder, throw bearing, clutch, pressure plate and flywheel.

But, its as smooth as can be now. It almost feels "normal"

[travelrover]

Thanks Karlz, I spoke with the dealer (independent) and he said as that was the way Land Rover built them his warranty will not cover it. Suggested I try calling Land Rover warranty people which I shall do this morning though the vehicle is 12 months out of warranty. Also spoke with my regular mechanic, Land Rover specialist and he said they have had so many incidents of this nature they are having special clutch components built to fix it. Either way it looks like it will be at my expense:-(


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[travelrover]

Well I spoke with the Land Rover warranty people the other day and was very polity told not their problem (would not acknowledge that this is a known problem) and suggested that I go to an authorised dealer and 'maybe' they will do it under warranty. In fact he suggest Trivet in Parramatta (Sydney).

I used to go to them when my TD5 was under warranty (a long time ago now) but had a number of unresolved issues and even then was treated as a third class citizen because I drove a Defender and decided I would never cross their threshold again.

So as I suspected any repairs will be at my cost, I shall go back to my regular mechanic (of almost 30 years) and contribute to his retirement fund even though he is an almost 200 km round trip from my home. At least I know they will stand by any repairs they do, and do have my interests at heart.

[1nando]

Take it straight to geaeme cooper or bruce davis performance. Trivett are hopeless.....they'll tell you that everthing that is wrong with your defender is the way it is becuase its a defender and therefore acceptable

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[travelrover]

Thanks 1nando

It was Graeme cooper I was referring to as my mechanic of the past 30 years (almost). I spoke with Ward on Monday and as always extremely helpful, was happy to assess and provide a report for the dealer I purchased it from but no point now as he they have washed their hands of it. So yes any work need doing will be done by Ward/Stuart and gang.


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[jackdef90]

I've got a 2012 Defender 90 (still under warranty) I've noticed over the last 1 - 2 weeks that when it's idling (foot off the clutch) it sounds like a cold rattly diesel motor from the 70's however, when I put my foot on the clutch it sounds like it should, as quiet as a diesel motor can be. Any ideas what could be causing all the noise ?
It doesn't seem to matter if the motor is cold or normal operating temperature, the noise is still there. The fact that putting my foot on the clutch stops the excess noise would suggest the noise is clutch related wouldn't it ?
I'm no mechanic and it is going in to be looked at but just wondering if anyone else had experiencing anything similar with a model around the same age ?



Sounds like the clutch plate finger springs

[aj90]

I have a 2010 90 and have had the clutch rattle since the vehicle was about 18 months old, it hasn't really got much worse having now done 57K (not alot I know). Several people including MR Automotive have said you should be looking at clutch replacement anywhere from 60-80K's. If all other components hold out it may well be the spring that goes...
Happy Days :D