Antone fitted an electric brake controller?

[PhilipA]

I am currently fitting a Tekonsha Optima to my D2.

I received it today and found a piece of paper inside warning that on "some" vehicles , you cannot fit the sensor lead to the brake light switch and gave as instances European vehicles with cruise control.

I have looked at the circuit diagrams and it appears to me that the Green Purple from the brake light switch is an OK source as it appears to go only to the stoplights .

The cruise control is active via an orange green wire when the brake pedal is not pressed and is disconnected when the brake is pressed when the brake lights are activated by the green /purple wire.

The brake light switch is shown as an A/B switch with the wire to the cruise control normally connected.

Can anyone who has fitted a electric brake controller please confirm?.

If not I have to tap the brake light circuit at the back which is a PITA.
Regards Philip A

[sierrafery]

Hi, the GP wire from the brake pedal switch's NO contact goes directly to header C0287 pin 1 where it splits to several systems, ECM, BCU, CC pump, then to C0295-4 and from there to lamps and IDM... check the engine management diagram then go down to ''header joints'' C0287 and see for yourself


maybe i could help you if you give me a link with the description of that device you want to fit cos i know nothing about it... i presume it's for the caravan brakes or something?


eventually i could tell you where and how to connect to a ''clean'' brake light signal closer to the interior fusebox area as to not disturb other systems

[PhilipA]

Hi Sierafery

I have looked and looked and cannot see what you see.

On my RAVE the GP goes to Header 290, then to Header 295, and then to header 0723. This is for the "exterior lights " diagram

I have looked at the BCM and there is no contact with any of those headers.
Aha I just found out from Reading the library on page 4.144 and 4.145 that only on LHD vehicles the GP goes to header 287 .

It is also obvious that you are looking at a V8 wiring diagram as the TD5 does not have a cruise control pump but cruise is controlled by the ECU.

After some more hours study, the TD5 engine management section of the manual says that OG is 12V with pedal depressed and GP is 0 volts to the ECU and the opposite with pedal released. This seems wrong way round to me.

However I think I will play it safe and take the brake signal from Connector 0723 halfway to the back, unless someone who has installed one says its OK to just fit the sensor wire to the brake switch.

FYI the signal wire is used by the Tekonsha to activate the brake circuit but any voltage draw is from another power wire which proportions trailer braking by use of a pendulum to work out how quickly the car is stopping.

Regards Philip A
PS Google Tekonsha Optima .

[justinc]

Hi phillip. I find it much easier and far 'safer' to run a dual core wire to the trailer plug at the rear, taking the brake signal and supplying the voltage for braking both in the same dual core cable. No hacking into car harness anywhere. :) I have done many, many this way on new puma etc with redarc towpro etc and had great success.

Jc

[sierrafery]

You are tright i was looking to the v8 management:wallbash: sorry for that... yes i found that Tekoshima optima, i know what it's doing, what i didnt find is it's diagram ... some time ago tehre was a guy who had trouble with such device connected on the brake switch's circuit cos it disturbed the BCU or IDM and there was troubole with the indicators... cos the brake switch NO contact, which will close when you push the brake is going to the BCU and IDM too, the problem can be if that wire from the controller which you connect to that circuit has some voltage on it then it will be trouble no matter where you connect it cos it will backfeed things when the brake pedal is released when that whole circuit for the D2 must be "In the air"

as i see now the GP wire goes to C0290-1 but then if you go down to "Header joints" diagrams to C0290 you'll see that from pin 1 it splits into 5 and pin 4 goes to BCU and pin 3 to C0588-16 which is connected to an electronic relay in the IDM...it appears the CC pump too but on Td5 is not connected

what you must do is to connect everything to where it's required on that controller except the wire which must pick up this "brakes on" signal, then when it's everything connected put ignition on and measure across earth and that wire if you get some voltage or not...if you get any voltage it might make you trouble but if you only need a brakes on signal for that wire you can connect it where ever you want on that circuit through a blocking diode and then IMO everything will be OK.

[iPom]

Phillip,

I fitted Tekonsha P2 four years ago and basically did the same as Justin details in his post above. So far no problems.

Dave

[Outback 1]

Hi philip I have a red arc brake controller on mine it's piggybacked off the brake light switch and I have no problem

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

[sierrafery]

i think it depends on which kind of brake controller it is, here is what problems caused to other guy http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/107928-brake-light-switch.html ... starting from post #8, though it's possible that there was some wiring issue not necessarily the controller backfeed... if you dont get any voltage on the controller's wire which needs the brakes on signal you can connect it anywhere IMO

[PhilipA]

Hi philip I have a red arc brake controller on mine it's piggybacked off the brake light switch and I have no problem




Hi phillip. I find it much easier and far 'safer' to run a dual core wire to the trailer plug at the rear

Arrrgh
I just spent a lot of time fitting ONE 12B&S wire to the trailer plug BEFORE I received the Tekonsha , all neat in loom tube and grommet in the floor under the driver seat and butchered the plug a bit to add a 12B&s earth . So there is probably no room for another wire anyway. I can tap the loom behind the taillight if necessary.


There was no mention of any problems in any literature except that little leaflet in the box or I would have tubed 2 core. Grrrrrr.

I think it will be OK off the brake switch as the signal to the ECU is 12V ON/OFF to switch out the Cruise control.

I might also do what Sierrafery suggests and put a diode in the line. if that doesn't work I can always tap the loom where it goes up the LH A pillar , which I assume it does then switches over to RH side at the roof rise.

Now to find those old diodes I had when I added a switch to my 77 RRC aircon fans about Oh 15 years ago. Maybe I will buy a new one as the ones I had were 30 amp or something and may cause a voltage drop, but that should not be important on the signal line as it is on/off only..

For Sierrafery
BTW in my reading I found a reference to a Tekonsha Optima or Voyager not going to sleep after 15 minutes with ign off as they are supposed to, and the problem was that the poster had fitted one of those trailer plugs with LEDS to tell whether they were wired correctly. It sounds something like that as it seems that the stoplights turn off after a while, although he may have miswired it more likely. Maybe earth to stoplight sensor, as the electronic bit needs a light earth as well as the heavy earth for the actual electric brakes on the trailer.

I wonder if the poster that you referenced has one of those.
Regards Philip A

[roverv8]

I have a Tekonsha P3 hooked up directly to the brake switch wire.
Never caused any problems at all.

[PhilipA]

Ok all fitted .
I connected the sensor to the brake green purple which was brakes off 0 volts as I suspected and 12volts brakes on. So RAVE is incorrect.

I get power from the interior fuse position for the sunroof ( no 12) as I don't have one. It is a 30 amp circuit. I cheated a bit and butchered a piggy back fuse thingo, by trimming down a blade connector to fit into the fuse socket on the battery side of the fuse. I then added a 25 amp manual reset circuit breaker between the blade and the controller.
Contrary to the instruction I earthed it on the bracing bar inside the dash, as I am sure it is a good earth . This earth is only for the controller circuit not the brakes themselves which I have earthed to an earth point at the back of the car.
It all fired up correctly, went to sleep after 15 minutes, told me no trailer was connected and the brake lights and indicators worked no problem..
OK now to get the brakes and wire up the trailer.
Regards Philip A
BTW the access for crimping the connectors to the brake sensor wire is a PITA. Don't do what I did and struggle for hours and use about 8 crimp connectors. Remove the under dash trim panel as it's only 3 press stud thingos and makes the access much better.

[sierrafery]

Well done:clap2:, i'm glad it's working, just out of curiosity, to know for the future...where is the incorrect part in RAVE please, somewhere in a description?

[PhilipA]

Sierrafery
As in the post above in the TD5 ECU section of the Workshop manual.
It says that GP is12v brakes off and NO is 0volts brakes off.
It is the opposite GP is 0volts brakes off and 12v brakes on as one would expect.
Regards Philip A

[sierrafery]

Thanks, i was wathing only the diagram which is OK ... you are right, in the description from engine management is the other way around...good to know that, anyway it's not the first mistake in there i found some myself in other cases

[Chase]

I have a Tekonsha P3 hooked up directly to the brake switch wire.
Never caused any problems at all.

....X2

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What the hell is a Tekonsha Optima Phillip?
:confused:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I would be interested in hearing from anybody out there towing 3 or more tonne,, the rumour was the Tekonsha P3's couldnt pull the big vans up,,,

[PhilipA]

What the hell is a Tekonsha Optima Phillip?


Its the one that seems identical to the Tekonsha Primus IQ.
I must have been reading the battery thread rather than the LPG gas thread just beforehand.

Regards Philip A