Roundup, responsible for bee colony collapse

[bob10]

Why Monsanto's 'Cure' for World Hunger is Cursing the Global Food Supply | Wake Up World (http://wakeup-world.com/2014/09/02/how-monsantos-roundup-is-cursing-the-global-food-supply/)

[Chucaro]

Today the bees tomorrow the humans as a result of poisoning the ecosystem :mad:

[oldyella 76]

Just another hype against Monsanto. More glyphosate is produced in China now than anywhere else, all the generic brands which outsell the original don't come from Monsanto. They are trying to keep ahead of the market by using different salts ect. to put a differential in the market. The most used products are the generic brands such as Apparent, Kenup, Kenup Gold and a host of others. It has proven to be one of the safest and cheapest chemicals for general weed control in the market that allows farmers to produce cheap food in an efficient manner. It amasses me that they will all pick on Monsanto, not sure if is against big business, agriculture or just pro organic.
And remember according to the C.S.I.R.O. if the world went organic, our food production would drop by 30% as a result of not enough soil nutrients and competition from weeds using the available soil nutrients and moisture.
Lindsay.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I don't want to be alarmist. However, I would encourage all direct naming of a specific product's tradename and direction mention of the name of a very large international company to be removed very quickly from this thread.

These people employ lots of lawyers to protect their company's name and their products. Use of the term Glyphosate would be fine as it is now a generic chemical produced by lots of companies. As this current thread stands the lawyers could come gunning for AULRO.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

Rather unlikely, seeing that the only mention is a link and a post decrying the contents of that link.

John

[PhilipA]

In Australia we use a lot of Glyphosate, but I think luckily there is so much natural forest that bees can be kept in areas away from glyphosate areas.
I guess places like Moree may have a real problem in future, but even there is the Mt Kaputa National park and forest areas.

When I was the NSW Ag Organics rep, about the easiest thing to grow organically was honey, as you had to set up the hives in a forest a set distance form any agriculture. This was usually in State forests.

I recall the biggest problem the industry had in NSW was that beekeepers would smuggle Queens in from countries infested with Foulbrood and it became a real problem for Australia to export queens to the middle east as the Foulbrood spread to many hives in NSW.

I personally made a deal with the UAE for NSW Ag to declare Foulbrood free areas to allow export of Queens from NSW.

So while Glyphosate is a big problem it is not the ONLY problem with the current decline in bee numbers. Members of the industry itself are causing grief.
I can see a real problem in Europe, the USA,etc where there is not much natural land left , but again in Oz we are pretty lucky.
Regards Philip A

[Chucaro]

Just another hype against Monsanto. ........
Lindsay.

The forum rules do not allow me to reply in a proper manner to your post :mad:

[Chucaro]

I................................................. ................
I personally made a deal with the UAE for NSW Ag to declare Foulbrood free areas to allow export of Queens from NSW.

So while Glyphosate is a big problem it is not the ONLY problem with the current decline in bee numbers. Members of the industry itself are causing grief.
I can see a real problem in Europe, the USA,etc where there is not much natural land left , but again in Oz we are pretty lucky.
Regards Philip A

At the end of the day all comes to plain greed :(

[brettphillips43]

Good to see people waking up. Sad to see that there are still so many Schills living in arogance. Monsanto is a major poisoner of the planet. Right along with Bill and Melinda Gates.with regards to food production dropping by 30%, maybe we should have supported local farmers when they needed our help. Go listen online to some of the people onTruth Freuency Radio.com . Thats one of many places to learn about whats really goin on around the world.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[incisor]

whats poor old bill doing wrong now?

[Eevo]

whats poor old bill doing wrong now?

i too would like to know.

[TeamFA]

with regards to food production dropping by 30%, maybe we should have supported local farmers when they needed our help.

Perhaps we should, instead, change the way we farm completely.

Daniel Quinn: The Great Forgetting (http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/the_great_forgetting/)

Totalitarian Agriculture.
- Develop a system of agriculture that initially creates a surplus of food.
- That food surplus creates a growing population.
- That growing population expands, and propagates the agricultural system.
- And so on...

[Chenz]

If Glyphosate is so bad maybe we should go back to using Atrazine, Paraquat and some other nice chemicals instead.

All the organic methods of farming are fine but there is still a need to control weeds using herbicide, the same way there is a need to control other pests.

Used responsibly Glyphosate is an effective and safe method of weed control. I would rather be spraying that than some of the older chemicals that it replaced.

Now I have to go feed my pet fox, let the rat go I caught in my Eco-freindly anti ikkie recycled textured vegetable protein trap and water my lantana bush:o

[isuzurover]

I have spent a lot of time on grain/sheep farms in the past year.

A couple of these are organic farms. My views have changed over this time with respect to organic broadacre farming.

Most farms these days practice zero-till to minimise topsoil loss. Organic farms need to continually till the soil as a means of weed control. Organic farms may use no herbicides and pesticides, however they do burn about 10x as much diesel keeping the weeds under control. Diesel particulate is a Class 1 human carcinogen, however the jury is out on glyphosate - despite a lot of research to-date.

What is a significant concern is the development of natural roundup (glyphosate) resistance in weeds.

Chenz - diquat, paraquat, etc, etc, etc are still widely used.

[david7307]

The worst thing that happened in Agriculture is the Chemical companies bought out seed companies.
That way thy can get crops to grow as long as you use this chemical ,or some other chemical
most will say the chemicals are safe to use, there is no such thing as a safe chemical, but we have got to a state we cant farm with out them

[JDNSW]

The worst thing that happened in Agriculture is the Chemical companies bought out seed companies.
That way thy can get crops to grow as long as you use this chemical ,or some other chemical
most will say the chemicals are safe to use, there is no such thing as a safe chemical, but we have got to a state we cant farm with out them

Everything is composed of "chemicals" and it is nonsense to say there is no such thing as a safe chemical, unless you mean in the trivial sense that nothing is totally risk free, but this is not specific to "chemicals".

Agricultural chemicals are designed to have specific effects and need to be used with these effects in mind. As with anything we do there are advantages and disadvantages of them, but the chemical in question, glyphosphate, is one of the most closely studied ones, and also one of the most benign. And the alternative of ploughing is considered by most to be a worse alternative.

The question of genetically modified glyphosphate tolerant crop species is a separate question, and there is a lot to be said against these, both because of the transference of glyphosphate resistance to weed species, and the way in which it ties the farmer to a particular company that owns the seed production. But confusing this problem with a general anti-"chemical" ideology is not useful.

John

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Organic does not necessarily mean safe; both Arsenic and Cyanide are both chemicals that occur in nature. Therefore, they are regarded as "organic chemicals". It does not mean that either of them are safe and will not kill you.

The other thing to consider is the Lethal Dose 50% or LD50 which reflects how much/little rate of the chemical per body mass it will take to kill 50 per cent of the sample.

People baulk at the idea that dilute 24D was formerly applied as a post harvest treatment to stop the "button" falling out of mandarins. Yet the same people are happy to spray residual surface sprays to kill nasty cockroaches and other creepy crawlies the walk over the sprayed surface in bare feet. The the surface sprays are far more toxic and far more long lasting than 24D is. Despite this people are happy to spray residual insecticide around their houses.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Tank]

Seems not long back, in the last Century that DDT, Arsenic, Lead and mercury were "Known" to be good for you and now some are saying we "cant live without" it (Roundup that is).
BULL****, it all comes down to the bottom line, More production, More money and without these God sent (read Monsanto and their kin) Chemicals, according to the experts, we would ALL starve, Regards Frank.

[isuzurover]

...there is no such thing as a safe chemical...

As JD said, everything is a chemical, even water and air. Do you also consider them unsafe?

[Tombie]

Two blokes approached the counter and ordered drinks..

"I will have H2O", said one.
The other said "I will have H2O too"

He died :)

[Eevo]

As JD said, everything is a chemical, even water and air. Do you also consider them unsafe?

yes. very dangerous.
one is corrosive the other an oxidizing agent.
both need to be banned

[Eevo]

according to the experts, we would ALL starve,

i understand what ur saying but can the worlds 7 billion people actually be sustained without chemicals?

chemicals have allowed us to increase yield, reduce crop disease and grow crops in less than perfect areas.

[Eevo]

Two blokes approached the counter and ordered drinks..

"I will have H2O", said one.
The other said "I will have H2O too"

He died :)

classic :D

[trog]

i understand what ur saying but can the worlds 7 billion people actually be sustained without chemicals?

chemicals have allowed us to increase yield, reduce crop disease and grow crops in less than perfect areas.

Do we need 7 billion or more people on this planet ?

[JDNSW]

Do we need 7 billion or more people on this planet ?

Now you are asking the real question. But, you probably know this anyway, even asking the question is taboo, let alone suggesting solutions or answers to it.

John

[Eevo]

Do we need 7 billion or more people on this planet ?

probably not, but the reality is we have 7 billion here.

[trog]

and all the encouragement to have more , one for mom , one for dad and one for the country. a lot of mouths to feed , heads to shelter and some form of income/job to provide somehow.

[85 county]

As JD said, everything is a chemical, even water and air. Do you also consider them unsafe?

yes. all and every thing is unsafe. it comes down to concentration.

arsenic is given as a medicine in many country's to young children. its only a problem if you give to much.

drinking to much water can kill you, dilutes out the salts in the body etc.

heavy water is natural in water. up the % of that and you will dry out a bit.

drinking Pure and in totally only H2O will make you ill over time ( not that pure H2O exists.

air to much as in hypo-ventilation can kill you. a slight change in the mix of air, for example CO2 incress of say .3% and you will not last that long

[Alex 110]

Oxygen is the ultimate drug. A single exposure leads to a lifetime addiction. Withdrawal kills in a matter of minutes and the final result of the addiction is always death:p

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[Aaron IIA]

Two blokes approached the counter and ordered drinks..

"I will have H2O", said one.
The other said "I will have H2O too"

He died :)

Rocket fuel.
Aaron

[TeamFA]

i understand what ur saying but can the worlds 7 billion people actually be sustained without chemicals?

chemicals have allowed us to increase yield, reduce crop disease and grow crops in less than perfect areas.

True,

But instead of increasing our crop production to support the increase of our 7 billion people, we should be focussing on not having 7 billion people, and then more, to start with.

Is there anybody who doesn't understand that human population control is necessary to the survival of the planet, as well as the survival of humans (as we're impossibly far away from establishing ourselves elsewhere)?

Either we'll have to work it out ourselves, or overpopulation will find a way to balance it out naturally, through famine and disease. The second method ensures more of the rest of our planet will go with us.

[AndyG]

Indeed, population growth is the elephant in the room everyone ignores.
Rather we provide subsidies rather than penalties for people to have more and more children.

[350RRC]

Hi,

Interesting that this thread has headed into various different directions as a result of the original premise.

The widely acknowledged cause of bee colony decline is the spread of a mite, and absolutely nothing with glyphosate. Tin foil brigade will always disagree.

Can Australia's bee colonies remain free of the Varroa mite? - 13/12/2013 (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3911559.htm)

cheers, DL

[bob10]

Hi,

Interesting that this thread has headed into various different directions as a result of the original premise.

The widely acknowledged cause of bee colony decline is the spread of a mite, and absolutely nothing with glyphosate. Tin foil brigade will always disagree.

Can Australia's bee colonies remain free of the Varroa mite? - 13/12/2013 (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3911559.htm)

cheers, DL


Not actually true. First;



Roundup Already Identified as Likely Cause of


Colony Collapse Disorder


This latest study is not the first to link glyphosate to the vanishing


honeybee.


Extensive research on the topic performed by Dr. Don D. Huber and


summarized in an article published last year, titled ?Is glyphosate a


contributing cause of bee colony collapse disorder (CCD)??, lead Dr.


Huber to conclude that the 880 million pounds of glyphosate released


into the environment worldwide has contributed to the collapse of the


honeybee population. The paper revealed the following six ways that


glyphosate could contribute to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD):




? Glyphosate chelates minerals, lowers nutrients in plants: In






CCD, Malnutrition is universally present.




? Glyphosate acts like an antibiotic to beneficial bacteria: In






CCD, loss of Lactobacillus and other critical beneficial


bacteria for digestion is commonly observed.




? Glyphosate is a neurotoxin: In CCD, honeybees experience






neurological changes associated with disorientation.




? Gyphosate causes endocrine hormone & immune disruption: In






CCD, immunity and other hormonal variables are altered or


suppressed.




? Glyphosate stimulates fungal overgrowth: In CCD, the fungal






pathogen Nosema increases.




? Glyphosate persists and accumulates: High environmental






exposure, including glyphosate residues present in honey,


nectar and other plant products, make honeybees susceptible to


continual toxic challenge ? which is believed to be a primary


underlying cause of CCD.


Then there is a litany of mites & diseases, which you will learn if you join a bee keeping association, which you should, if you are going to make sweeping statements like that. Bob

[350RRC]

No disrespect Bob, but glyphospate does not persist as far as I can find. It is not like dieldrin, etc. Even that has a half life.

It readily breaks down on contact with soil.

DL

[sashadidi]

Best we all stop using the chemical entities diesel and petrol if we are to consistent in our condemnation of chemicals and their effect on the environment can't have both ways .......

[bob10]

No disrespect Bob, but glyphospate does not persist as far as I can find. It is not like dieldrin, etc. Even that has a half life.

It readily breaks down on contact with soil.

DL


No problem, mate. That information was passed on to me from the bee keeping society. It is based on scientific research, so I can only take it as true. I do know bee keeping societies in Australia are taking it very seriously. Another article passed on to me gives a couple of links to excellent publications about bee bio-security, Pests & Diseases.As far as the Varroa mite goes, Australia has no reported infestations, to date, AFAIK, Bob



BeeAware

BeeAware is a hub of information for beekeepers and growers about honeybee biosecurity and

pollination of agricultural and horticultural crops.

The site contains an extensive range of information about exotic and established pests and

diseases of honeybees, and helps beekeepers to identify and respond to these pest threats. It also contains

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BeeAware is funded by the Australian honeybee industry, pollinator-reliant plant industries, Plant Health

Australia, governments and R&D agencies. To visit the website go to

Bee Aware (http://beeaware.org.au/)






Biosecurity Manual for the Honey Bee Industry

In 2012 a Biosecurity Manual for the Honey Bee Industry was published by Plant Health Australia. It is a

full colour Manual with information and descriptive photos on exotic & established pests affectin

honeybees. It also has some detailed information for the larger beekeeper, but nevertheless, valuabl

information whether you own one hive or a thousand

When this Manual was first published, it was sent to every registered beekeeper in Qld, if you are new t

beekeeping you might find this valuable resource. It can be downloaded for free at





[PDF]Biosecurity Manual for the Honey Bee Industry - Farm ... (https://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDIQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.farmbiosecurity.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FBiosecurity-Manual-for-the-Honey-Bee-Industry.pdf&ei=XZp3VPWpBYrGuATOtYCoCw&usg=AFQjCNHG7J4T3ikKjo7KsF5eV4nBaWRL9A)

www.farmbiosecurity.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Biosecurity-...




this manual. The Biosecurity Manual for the Honey bee industry is available for free download .... Bee Industry. Council (AHBIC) www.honeybee (http://www.<i>honeybee</i>).org.au or Plant Health Australia (PHA) www.phau.com (http://www.phau.com).au. ..... fellows/Martin_Daniel_2010.pdf.









It can also be found through a link on the QBA web site under Pests and Diseases.


The QBA web site also has links to Qld DPI and Plant Health Australia with information on bee pests and


diseases (under the Pests & Diseases tab). Again, these sites have descriptive photos and information on


the various honeybee problems to assist beekeepers identify them if they are unfortunate enough to have

something 'strange? or 'different? in your hives.

[bob10]

Another report, which goes into detail, click on the pdf download to view.


https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/items/12-043

[PhilipA]

Foulbrood is the most serious disease in NSW.

American foulbrood | NSW Department of Primary Industries (http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/honey-bees/pests-diseases/american-foulbrood)

Regards Philip A

[bob10]

Foulbrood is the most serious disease in NSW.

American foulbrood | NSW Department of Primary Industries (http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/honey-bees/pests-diseases/american-foulbrood)

Regards Philip A


Year Phillip, there is a lot to learn. And a great responsibility to go with it. That's why, being a Virgo, I still don't have my first hive. But it is getting close. I just need another 50,000 names, Bob

[Graeme]

It readily breaks down on contact with soil.
I think you will find that it binds very tightly to clay particles rather than breaks down - its still there but effectively becomes inert because the clay wont release it.