Advice on buying a Classic Car

[land864]

We have decided to buy a Classic type convertible. That is , a 1995 MG RV8. Google them:)
We are actively looking around now with a view to buying early next year.
It appeals because it has beautiful lines and also just happens to have the Rover 3.9 V8 and an R380 Gearbox;)

The reason for the post is to get some considered opinion from the car buffs among us.

We don't need a concourse car but equally don't want anything that has been track dayed or is tatty.

Is it best to buy a cheaper , higher km car ( 76000) in excellent / near concours condition or a more expensive car with lower km( 39000) that needs a bit of tidying up? This is a summary of 2 currently for sale that we may be interested in. My fear with the lower km car is that I know it has done at least one Hillclimb and I'm not sure about track days history on it. The owner says no track days done and mechanically it seems to check out okay , although the 2nd in the R 380 may have been notchy :confused: Lets say the price difference is around $5000 , so $ 25000 and $30000.

Pete

[101RRS]

I doubt that an MG RV8 has done much in the way of track days - is more of a GT comfy tourer than a sports car.

I would be happy to own one as a nice regular driver - the last of the MGB line so a bit obsolete when sold, so you have a mix of old and new but easy to live with.

With all older vehicles - simply get the best vehicle you can afford - in the long run it is cheaper to buy a good vehicle that requires little work than to buy a poorer example and fix it up.

Cheers

Garry

[justinc]

Bloody aweful handling in stock trim, and very 'flexible' on rough road surfaces :o
I fitted a performance high lift cam, and a chip upgrade to one a few years back and blimey, was it a handful!! Easy to get into trouble with the woeful suspension and average steering feel.

Loved the exhaust note, especially at the lights with that great cam lope.. and then again at 5500rpm....:cool:

Great vehicle to own and drive around, but be careful with the right foot if the engine has been tweaked and the chassis is still stock :eek:

JC

[Jojo]

I've read an interesting article about this vehicle:
MG RV8 (http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/one-last-hurrah-1994-mg-rv8)
Seems there were not too many built of them, so spares may become an issue. Nice looking vehicle, though, and very British... Good on ya'!
Cheers

[The Cone of Silence]

Pete

I have owned a couple of classic British sports cars and still have one to this day....a '67 Austin Healey 3000.

The rule of thumb when looking at a car to buy is to be fully aware of what your problem areas will be - you need to study the car and the owners forums and find out what are the areas that owners have typically experienced issues with.

For most British sports cars it's rust, so check the chassis and the bodywork for telltale signs. Yours is only a '95 though so I'd expect less of an issue here.
how about the roof fittings? Do they leak? Worth giving them a hose as part of your assessment.

There might be other hidden things that you need to keep a lookout for though so find an MG R8 owner's forum and see what you can glean from there.

If you're worried about whether the engine has been ragged at track days and hill climbs, well fair enough. If both cars were identical I think I'd be tempted by the older vehicle with higher mileage that doesn't have a potential problem with the gearbox. Stay safe.

How many miles are you likely to do in this car on a regular basis?

Bobby

[solmanic]

In my experience, km on the odometer mean nothing when talking classic cars. It all depends on how well it has been maintained and what has been overhauled or replaced. (EDIT: Although 1995 is not really that old. I'm thinking more 1950-60s era.)

If you really want to enjoy a classic, get one that is just not quite perfect so you won't be afraid to take it out and drive it. You also won't then agonize about any little tweaks you want to do to it for fear of compromising its show-worthiness. If it hasn't already been done, upgrade the electrics (EDIT: again probably not an issue for a 1995 vehicle). I put electronic ignition in my Alfa and it runs like a new car. Starts easily even after sitting in the garage for three or four weeks.

[101RRS]

For most British sports cars it's rust, so check the chassis and the bodywork for telltale signs. Yours is only a '95 though so I'd expect less of an issue here.
how about the roof fittings? Do they leak? Worth giving them a hose as part of your assessment.

A very good point.

Check where the RV8 originally came from as the RV8 was never sold in Australia and I thought most in Australia were grey imports from Japan and if so the corrosion issue may not be an issue.

Cheers

Garry

[p38arover]

I'll ask a friend in the MG car club if you can contact him. He's an automotive engineer and has worked for LR (now works for another manufacturer getting cars complianced).

He's just sold his MGC but still has another MG.

[Bigbjorn]

Justinc is on the money about handling. I bought one new in 1964. One of the last of the three bearing engines. Pressed hard, the understeer was total and frightening. It could go straight ahead with full lock on. Chassis and body twist and flex was part of the design criteria. Good brakes for the time. Excellent crumpet catcher.

MGB's are not highly regarded in collector circles. Don't pay more than $15,000 for a 90 point car.

Most owners have a jaundiced idea of the value of their collector car when they advertise it for sale. Far too many have the idea that they spent $xxxxx on it and they are going to recoup that money. Wrong. Their spending was the cost of their hobby, not value adding. If it is for sale at an exaggerated price, then offer half.

[timax]

I have chased a tidy BRG one around Wakefield park in my PRB.
It was quick enough and seemed to handle ok . Isnt the V8 actually lighter that the steel 4 pot?
Personally i would go straight to the MG club and their forums and start asking questions. Better to buy one that is sorted even if it has some K's on it. And way better that it be from an MG enthusiast.
I have driven a rubber nose 4 pot version owned by a girl i was working with once and it was totally horrible. ALL in the setup though. She had NO idea.

[101RRS]

MGB's are not highly regarded in collector circles. Don't pay more than $15,000 for a 90 point car.

This is an RV8 not a 60s MGB - worth quite a bit more than $15000.

He will never get one - well maybe a right off - for that price.

[jerryd]

I'm often looking at those and dreaming :)

This looks a nice sorted example, although there are always a few for sale.

1995 MG RV8 for sale | Trade Unique Cars, Australia (http://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/detail/cars/unique-cars/mg/rv8/230185)


Being at the other end of the market, we've just purchased a nice rust free MG Midget that has had a few tweaks and it drives superb.

[Dave_S]

In terms of buying a classic car, you obviously need to research the model you are looking at. People will always tell you that a particular make or model is crap, but if you like it then that's all you need to go further.

I always look for rust and accident damage first, especially if there's a chnce it's been hidden under new paint or body trim. Overspray is a dead giveaway. I also try to see if the car is to original spec in every respect and that it is complete, including tools and owners manual. Have a look at service records and receipts.

Cars that aren't used much will often give trouble when put into regular use, so keep that in mind. For anything even vaguely modern, it's best to budget for a major service and full systems check, even just for piece of mind. You might want to check the age of the tyres too.

Get all the advice you can from the various websites, but try to filter out the pub experts. Make a checklist when you view a car and tick every box. If the vendor has a problem with a thorough inspection, don't buy it.

[Bigbjorn]

This is an RV8 not a 60s MGB - worth quite a bit more than $15000.

He will never get one - well maybe a right off - for that price.

It is not vintage, veteran, post-vintage thoroughbred, declared Classic, or even a sought after modern collectable. It is just an old car.

[UncleHo]

Yes, I agree with you Brian, they havn't got the character of a TC/D/F or even a Bug Eyed Sprite.

[pop058]

It is not vintage, veteran, post-vintage thoroughbred, declared Classic, or even a sought after modern collectable. It is just an old car.


Yes, I agree with you Brian, they havn't got the character of a TC/D/F or even a Bug Eyed Sprite.

You old guys need to put your hearing aids back in and your glasses on. :p. He is NOT after any of those, he is looking for a mid 90's MG RV8 (in case you missed it the first time :D )


We have decided to buy a Classic type convertible. That is , a 1995 MG RV8. Google them:)
We are actively looking around now with a view to buying early next year.
It appeals because it has beautiful lines and also just happens to have the Rover 3.9 V8 and an R380 Gearbox;)

The reason for the post is to get some considered opinion from the car buffs among us.

We don't need a concourse car but equally don't want anything that has been track dayed or is tatty.

Is it best to buy a cheaper , higher km car ( 76000) in excellent / near concours condition or a more expensive car with lower km( 39000) that needs a bit of tidying up? This is a summary of 2 currently for sale that we may be interested in. My fear with the lower km car is that I know it has done at least one Hillclimb and I'm not sure about track days history on it. The owner says no track days done and mechanically it seems to check out okay , although the 2nd in the R 380 may have been notchy :confused: Lets say the price difference is around $5000 , so $ 25000 and $30000.

Pete

[land864]

That's why I love this forum.
It's full of car tragics like me :cool:

Thanks for all the responses guys and in reply.

1. HI GC. All good points. 1 of the potentials has done a Rob Roy Hill climb. In researching I actually found a couple that had done Historic and Classic Bathursts:eek:. Ours would be a daily driver for a couple of years. The lower KM one that is not as good , can be tidied up. There is nothing major. Can't remember if I felt that 2nd in the R380 may have been a little notchy? They were all low volume Grey Imports from Japan. They do have a rust issue under the windscreen but I'm all over that.
2. Jus. I hear you. I have driven a couple. They handle nothing like the MX5 I had but I will only be cruising not fanging. The exhaust note is one of the major reasons for purchase:D
3. Thanks Johannes. I hadn't seen that article.
4. Healey 3000. Nice one Bob:cool:
5. Solmi. Good point. I am not a concours sort of guy. I keep my cars clean and in good nick but if I want something to sit still , is pretty to look at and costs a lot of money , I'll buy a sideboard:D
6. Ron. That would be very much appreciated . Thank you:)
7. Brian. I here you but the RV8 has stolen my heart.
8. Tim. Woodcote Green please!!!!! :p I have been in touch with the various clubs. I should probably join but the initial reactions from some of the RV 8 mob in the MGCC Vic have been a little chilly!
9. Jerry. That does look nice but WA is just a bit too far.
10. All good points as well Dave. Boy , do I do some research. I have a whole folder of RV8 articles and buyer advice. I also have a 2 page checklist:)
11. Paul. Thanks for the support but easy on the old blokes. I'm on the wrong side of 50;)

At the end of the day , it is possible to buy a better or more classic Sports Convertible for $ 30K.
They either aren't classic looking enough for me or we have trouble with my wife Debs back . The RV8 is a bit of a Goldilocks selection. Not too firm, not too soft , not too old , not too new, not too perfect , not too ratty, not too expensive to keep on the road ( after all , it has the 3.9 Rover motor and an R380 gearbox)

I guess it will come down to whoever gets closest to our budget early next year when we buy.

My gut feel is that the lower km one is not ratty , has probably done no more than one Hillclimb , is pretty well sorted mechanically ( must check the notchy 2nd ) and will probably be easier to buy as its in Vic. I figure that it can be tidied up and will have 1/2 the km's of the other one. The higher k one is very tidy but will always have higher kms.

Thanks again Men

Pete

[Bigbjorn]

You old guys need to put your hearing aids back in and your glasses on. :p. He is NOT after any of those, he is looking for a mid 90's MG RV8 (in case you missed it the first time :D )

That is what I was referring to. Just another not very popular old car.

[Rok_Dr]

Having just gone through the same experience buying a 94 xj12 jaguar and owning an 80's alfa I would offer the following advice.

1. Decide what make/model you want. Tick as you have decided.
2. Be patient and strong enough to walk away. MOST IMPORTANT. There is always another car around the corner.
3. Research your chosen vehicle throughly, look at specialist forums on the internet to work out the weak points, strengths, and what to look for.
4. Cruise the car sales web sites and work out what the price range is.
5. Service history, service history, service history and just to repeat service history. It should be actual invoices which document the work undertaken and vouch for the Kms. Dealer stamps are ok early in the cars life though.
6. If it is a private sale look at the owner as much as the car. If they are an enthusiast they will know the car and be able to answer detailed mechanical questions. If they get fuzzy in their answers then walk away or get a specialist to inspect the vehicle.
7. If a dealer they should be a known classic car or marque specialist.
8. Regardless if the ad over sells the car and you are disappointed on viewing, then put your skeptic goggles on.
9. If it all checks out and the test drive throws up no issues, then get a specialist to inspect the car, (unless like me you are exceedingly brave/stupid :) )
10. Check the car against the ppsr register, you'll need the vin number. This will reveal if there is any encumbrances such as finance owing on the car. Ditto if your state allows, check the rego on line or sight the registration papers.
11. After looking at the car, sleep on it and if in doubt walk away. There will be another one.

Cheers

Steve

[isuzurover]

That is what I was referring to. Just another not very popular old car.

If you think 19 years is old then what does that make you Brian :D

[Bigbjorn]

If you think 19 years is old then what does that make you Brian :D

I was in the motor trade. We considered four years to be an "old car". Nowadays most new car dealerships send anything 8-9 years old straight to the auctions for resale to bomb dealers, fleas, do-it-yourselfers and wreckers. They don't want "old rubbish" in their yards.

Edit:- Many of the up-market image conscious new dealerships nowadays sell off any trade-ins that are over 4-5 years or a bit untidy. They only want pristine one owner used cars in the yards that carry their name. Some have used yards under other names for the older and rougher stuff. Most used yards that have any pretence of being reputable don't stock anything 10 or 20 years old. Trade in value of old stuff is usually the amount of fat in the price tag to handle trades.

[solmanic]

Having just gone through the same experience buying a 94 xj12 jaguar and owning an 80's alfa I would offer the following advice.
...
2. Be patient and strong enough to walk away. MOST IMPORTANT. There is always another car around the corner.
...
11. After looking at the car, sleep on it and if in doubt walk away. There will be another one.


Yes and no.
You will need to be patient at first and be prepared to walk away from or miss out on several of the early ones you look at. But as you get some months into the research phase and having already examined a few cars closely, you will get a sense of what is a good deal. You then need to be ready to move quickly in case the right one presents itself. I missed out on a fantastic deal on a car the other day simply because I ran late getting to the dealership to look at it - and I KNEW it was a fantastic deal on paper at least as I have been shopping for about four months.

[land864]

Thanks Doc and Solmi

1. Agree with Solmi here. I have looked at 1/2 dozen and pretty much know the market by now. If the right one came up at the right price I'd pounce. There are only about 200 in Aust and currently 11 for sale on line.
2. Service history is critical with these. apparently a few are coming into the country with some speedo adjustments done :mad:
3. I had some good car buying advice once " Nice , genuine people sell nice genuine cars. Go with your gut"
4. Finding a specialist to inspect is the issue. I'm not paying RACV or NRMA to do one. With all due respect , I doubt they'd know what to look for! The problem with getting a specialist to look at it is , there aren't many around and chances are the closest one to the vehicle is the one who has been servicing for the current owner. How can I be sure of an objective test?
5. The AVEDA check is brilliant . At one time we looked at a modern 1 series BMW convertible. Only the AVEDA certificate brought it up as a repairable write off. Best $300 or so I ever spent .
6. To date it has been a bit of a Mexican stand off. I don't need to buy and the sellers haven't needed to sell:)

Pete