The Great Fuel Rip-Off.

[disco man]

Article By John Rolfe.

Motorists are being ripped off to the tune of $5 a tank,delivering Big Oil a potential windfall of $30 million a week. Analysis by News Corp reveals the margin on petrol is the highest since at least early 2010-and possibly much longer. This is because the retail price is not dropping at the same pace as the wholesale price. Figures from the industry body for Big Oil,the Australian Institute of Petroleum (AIP),reveal the gap between the retail and wholesale price of unleaded has been as much as 19c/L during the past month. It means drivers of popular cars such as the Mazda6 have been forking over as much as $5.50 more per pit stop due to the supersized margin. The ACCC has estimated that every 1c/L extra motorists pay fattens fuel companies profits by $190 million a year-about $3.6 million a week. This suggests when the margin is 9c/L more than the historical norm,the bottom line benefit is $33 million a week. AIP data also shows the raw price of petrol-known as MOPS 95 has plunged 15c/L since the end of September to less than 64c/L. Yet the national average retail price has fallen just 1c/L in that time. Were it not for a big drop in Melbourne,the national average would be up.

In Queensland,the price has risen by about 2c/L with in that,the Brisbane average is up 4c/L. "Clearly the retailers are on notice to pass through the savings," said CommSec chief economist Craig James,who closely monitors petrol prices at a national level. "If we don't get a fall....there'll be questions asked." The AIP data was published just before last week's 10% dive in the price of Tapis oil. That slump could further expand the gap between wholesale and retail petrol prices. ACCC spokesman Duncan Harrod indicated there was nothing to worry about:"It is important to consider changes in differences over longer time periods." However,the longer-term view is also concerning. MOPS 95 is 16c/L lower than this time last year and the national retail price has fallen just 4c/L. The ACCC isn't actually closely monitoring prices any more. It stopped doing so in June. It's website says it is "considering options for the future." However,it has begun Federal Court action against most petrol retailers,alleging price co-ordination.

Anyway you look at it we are paying to much,and I can't see it changing any time soon.

[Ausfree]

They're like the banks DM, slow to pass on price falls but lightning fast to put prices up.:mad:

[disco man]

They're like the banks DM, slow to pass on price falls but lightning fast to put prices up.:mad:

You got that right Mr Free,It makes me wonder what the ACCC was actually set-up to do?

[Ausfree]

You got that right Mr Free,It makes me wonder what the ACCC was actually set-up to do?

ACCC..ha,ha......toothless tiger.

[Saitch]

You got that right Mr Free,It makes me wonder what the ACCC was actually set-up to do?
It gave jobs to people who were otherwise useless & have no idea of common living or, if they do, don't give a ****!

[disco man]

Filled up this morning at $1.49c/L,what are you blokes paying?

[101RRS]

The fuel market is basically unregulated meaning sellers can charge what they want as long as they do not collude with each other to fix prices. They charge what they can get away with and the retail price may have nothing to do with the cost of inputs.

They charge what they believe the buyer is prepared to pay - not different to most other products we buy.

If Porsche was required to sell cars for a set margin above the cost of inputs, a Porsche would cost about the same as a DunnyDoor.

The ACCC's main role in these unregulated industries is to ensure conduct is not anti competitive - it cannot dictate prices.

[Homestar]

Filled up this morning at $1.49c/L,what are you blokes paying?

$1.27 In Sunbury
$1.22 at a couple of servo's in the city.

[Greatsouthernland]

:censored: the petrol companies! and the useless regulator!

:) moving on, diesel is usually 10c more than unleaded around the burbs, which really :censored: sucks, about $1.48. But I've found a united selling both for the same price - $1.39.7. I have to drive an extra 5km each way, but make sure it's for a full tank, targeted shopping en-route and I've saved about $5, but more importantly given the local :censored: thieving servos the bird.....

Take that :censored: large retail chain mob :censored: useless shoppabloody discount :censored: save 4c big :censored: deal, still too bloody much!

Calmmmmmmmm.

[Greatsouthernland]

Are there better sites than this one?

https://motormouth.com.au/

[Greatsouthernland]

Just read that on 10th Nov, the Govt bypassed the senate to increase the fuel tax!

What the?

[101RRS]

Just read that on 10th Nov, the Govt bypassed the senate to increase the fuel tax!

What the?

Yes and it has to be passed by the Senate within 12 months (I think) or it is rescinded and has to be paid back - was extensively covered in the media a few weeks back.

[Tombie]

Filled up this morning at $1.49c/L,what are you blokes paying?

$1.64c/L - So quit complaining:angel: :cool: Hasn't changed here in 3 years. :twisted:

[Ausfree]

$1.33 for E10 here, less your 4c discount voucher!!!:)

[Eevo]

for what it does, fuel is very cheap.

how far do u think u could push 2000kg of metal on 50l of water?

[roverrescue]

I dont even both looking at the price...
Only three servos in town all within a cent of each other, one likes to serve water with the diesel, so I go to the other ones...
But price is about 180c/L give or take and doesnt really change much month to month.
hurts when you wanna fill the boat with 240L but I guess the benefits outweigh the cost!!

s

[PhilipA]

Yes you really feel that 1.6 cents a litre of excise, NOT!

As I said here or another thread, it's the oil companies who are playing us for mugs.
Regards Philip A
BTW the WA government has a great web site with daily fuel prices throughout WA( except for the GRR) with the price and location. Eg when I was in Kununurra it alerted me to the coop which was 10-15 cents cheaper than the town stations.
Regards Philip A

[Greatsouthernland]

for what it does, fuel is very cheap.

how far do u think u could push 2000kg of metal on 50l of water?

True, considering a 600ml bottle of H2O can cost $3 from the Deli... Fuel is cheap, but not drinkable :eek:

[Greatsouthernland]

...Yes you really feel that 1.6 cents a litre of excise, NOT!

Regards Philip A

Well there you go, you've edumacated me on that, I thought it was more :(

I'd be happy to pay the gubberment a bit more, rather than big oil, but they need some profits to keep finding more, otherwise it'll go up quicker.

So oh wise one :D where are we in regard to peak oil? And how long til H2 gains a common foothold, websitelink where you gain your knowledge :cool:

[PhilipA]

where are we in regard to peak oil? And how long til H2 gains a common foothold, websitelink where you gain your knowledge

Peak Oil? peak Oil?
Where have I heard that before?
Oh about 5 years ago before they started horizontal drilling in the States and technology found heaps more.
I was going to start a thread so you saved me doing it. But I wouldn't count on the price being cheap for more than a few years and OPEC is doing a BHP and flooding the market to knock out competitors.

However I was interested to read today a report by analysts that Woodside's break even is USD22 per barrel.

I still think Hydrogen is "about 20 years away" as it was 20 years ago.
My understanding 20 years ago was that purity is a big problem as BOC found with Perth bus fleet. Probably still is but nobody has got as far as a widespread distribution system. With oil as cheap and plentiful as it is now, you would have to be a bit of a masochist to spend much on Hydrogen research. Of course the byproduct is water , and no co2 so maybe the Europeans will spend money on it.

Hang on they haven't got any money because they have spent it all on wind farms and solar panels, and then like Germany building 5 coal fired power station to cover when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow.
Regards Philip A

[disco man]

Both articles from the same paper;)

Fuel prices low and heading lower | Townsville Bulletin (http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/breaking-news/fuel-prices-low-and-heading-lower/story-fnjbnvta-1227142089040)



Bowser rip-off hits Townsville drivers | Townsville Bulletin (http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/bowser-rip-off-hits-townsville-drivers/story-fnjfzs4b-1227141591157'sv=92c063ca14db0eed067ef0c6840c7e20)

[loneranger]

Yes you really feel that 1.6 cents a litre of excise, NOT!

The increase in Excise was from 38.143 cents per litre to 38.6 cents per litre as shown on the ATO website.

[Greatsouthernland]

Peak Oil? peak Oil?
Where have I heard that before?
Oh about 5 years ago before they started horizontal drilling in the States and technology found heaps more.
I was going to start a thread so you saved me doing it. But I wouldn't count on the price being cheap for more than a few years and OPEC is doing a BHP and flooding the market to knock out competitors.

However I was interested to read today a report by analysts that Woodside's break even is USD22 per barrel.

I still think Hydrogen is "about 20 years away" as it was 20 years ago.
My understanding 20 years ago was that purity is a big problem as BOC found with Perth bus fleet. Probably still is but nobody has got as far as a widespread distribution system. With oil as cheap and plentiful as it is now, you would have to be a bit of a masochist to spend much on Hydrogen research. Of course the byproduct is water , and no co2 so maybe the Europeans will spend money on it.

Hang on they haven't got any money because they have spent it all on wind farms and solar panels, and then like Germany building 5 coal fired power station to cover when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow.
Regards Philip A

GOLD! :D

Top answers Phil. I'd give you two thanks if it was possible. :cool:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

who cares what the price of ulp is,,

In the great state of VIC the price of LPG is around 65cpl,,

read that and weep QLD:p

[vnx205]

I drove up to Sydney and back today, a 640km round trip and noticed an enormous variation in prices.

E10 in most places here on the south coast seems to be around 140.9.

At the brand new service station in Bateman's Bay, E10 was 153.9. At Albion Park, it was 122.7.

31.2 cents a litre difference seems a lot. After all, the south coast of NSW is hardly the wrong side of the Black Stump.

[Tombie]

E10 could be free.. Would never find its way into anything I own..

[Ausfree]

E10 could be free.. Would never find its way into anything I own..

Have to agree with your post.......price of E10 has dropped to 131.9cpl (less your 4c discount docket) around here. I use regular unleaded or PULP.

[vnx205]

E10 could be free.. Would never find its way into anything I own..

You must own the wrong things then. :D

My SV21 Camry did about 300,000 km on E10 with no problems. Even my lawn mower has been fed a steady diet of E10 and continues to do everything expected of it.

I am aware of some of the issues that can occur with E10, but they have never happened to me.

Several years ago after hearing so many claims that premium unleaded gave better performance or economy than E10, I tried three consecutive tanks full of the stuff. I didn't notice any improvement in performance and the economy was exactly the same (to the second decimal place) as the figure that E10 had given me over the previous decade. It was a waste of money.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to use it or to change anyone's mind about the potential problems. I'm simply recounting my experiences with E10.

[mitchE39]

Seems to depend do a lot on the car. Sophisticated cars react better to good fuel. My BMW would notice around 1.5-2 l/100 difference between 91 and 98. Didn't try E10 because of the bad stories I've heard with some boats

[vnx205]

Seems to depend do a lot on the car. Sophisticated cars react better to good fuel. My BMW would notice around 1.5-2 l/100 difference between 91 and 98. Didn't try E10 because of the bad stories I've heard with some boats

I'm sure that you are right that the results are different in different cars. I just assumed that a 1988 Camry simply wasn't clever enough to notice that it was being fed more expensive fuel and therefore should show its appreciation by performing better.

I think that at least a couple of the common problems associated with E10 in boats don't really apply to cars that are regularly driven (especially great cars like the SV21 Camry :p)

Perhaps one way of looking at it is that E10 is an excellent choice if you have the right vehicle and that an old Camry is the right vehicle. :)

[PhilipA]

Most Japanese cars are tuned to run on 91 octane so don't ping on it, so no advantage to run 98 except lighter weight of wallet. Most European cars are tuned to run on 95 or 98 so will ping on 91 so then the computer will retard the timing. That is why some cars benefit and some don't.
Regards Philip A

[Pedro_The_Swift]

filled up on LPG this morning for the run out to Kilcunda,,

62cpl!!!:cool::banana::banana:
You rock Victoria!

[Outback 1]

Hey pedro when are you going to visit the good country nth central Victoria :p:p:p:p:p

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

[DiscoMick]

Fuel prices are not a free market thing at all, they are manipulated by the oil producers to maximize profits. At the moment the USA is rapidly increasing production of shale oil, so it is hitting the other oil producers. OPEC had a meeting about it the other day. The prediction is fuel prices will fall because of the extra production flooding the market.
Exactly the same thing is happening with iron ore prices because BHP and Rio Tinto are increasing production to squeeze out high cost Chinese producers and gain market share for themselves. This is cutting state government royalties and federal government company tax income and worsening government deficits. This is the big picture behind the news.
There is no such thing as a free market.

[DiscoMick]

Toyota says our Yaris will run happily on E10 and it does, so why wouldn't I use a cheaper fuel?

[101RRS]

Toyota says our Yaris will run happily on E10 and it does, so why wouldn't I use a cheaper fuel?

I cannot comment on a Yaris but for many vehicles the mpg or l/100km is less than say 91 Unleaded.

So you need to work out your cost in fuel per km to actually see if it is actually cheaper to use.

In many cases it is actually more expensive.

[Tombie]

Also depends on your use.. The "E" component absorbs water..
For my use it would help contaminate the petrol items I own.

I also enjoy the benefits of the cleaning agents etc in high octane fuel... And don't use additives in the engines running petrol.

Having said that my petrol vehicles are the mower, chain saw, whipper snipper, bikes and the boat...

[PhilipA]

Toyota says our Yaris will run happily on E10 and it does, so why wouldn't I use a cheaper fuel?

The Yaris will run on 91 quite happily.
The problem is that for a car designed to run on 91 octane there is no advantage in using 94 octane E10.
Ethanol has approximately 68% of the calorific value of petrol.
from
http://www.aip.com.au/pdf/BioFuelFactSheet.pdf

Ethanol contains 68 per cent of the energy content of petrol. In an E10 blend this means around 3 per cent less energy is available, which translates to a similar loss of fuel economy on average across the vehicle fleet. Individual vehicle performance may vary significantly from the average.
In the real world my experience suggests that I lose about 5% of economy in my Honda Jazz.
At the central coast of NSW the price difference is 2.5 cents a litre which is less than the loss of economy.

So you are not saving money at all by using E10.

In fact it is costing you money!!!!

Regards Philip A