Are Solar Panels Really That Good For The Environment?

[disco man]

I am not posting this to stir the pot,I just thought it was an interesting read and maybe some of you will too.

How Green Are Those Solar Panels, Really? (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/)

[Eevo]

i thought this was common knowledge?

[Ausfree]

I see when you read the comments under the article somebody mentions the article is sponsered by an oil company.However, I have wondered in the past about the damage to the environment caused by the manufacture of solar panels and also recycling after they reach their use-by dates.

Interesting read though, thanks for sharing DM!!!!:D:D

[AndyG]

Same whole of life story for aPrius battery

[Eevo]

robbing peter to pay paul

[Jojo]

As with most items, production and transport of goods will require energy. In many cases, as in solar panel manufacture, even chemicals and other environmental hazards are involved. There is no denying this. But then, look at the advantages: solar panels produce energy for free, for decades to come! True, they are not very efficient today, but any solar panel is more efficient than having none at all. Making use of otherwise unused area to produce clean energy is a win-win situation for everyone.
Of course one needs to take all efforts possible to minimise the ecological impact during production and removal after they have reached the end of their working life. It is still early in the day for solar energy and I trust in a few years time those questions won't be an issue anymore as production will become more environmentally friendly (most likely with assistance of governmental incentives and through pressure from lobbyists) as well as an established recycling facility (this will become economically interesting as soon as an adequate number of panels reaches the end of their service life).

Disclaimer: I am a keen supporter of solar power, having an 18kWh-installation on my property.

[disco man]

Same whole of life story for aPrius battery

Bloody hell mate you weren't kidding:o

The Prius Bad for the Environment? (http://hubpages.com/hub/Prius)

[KarlB]

The important question is: are solar panels better for the environment than coal fired power generation?

[Eevo]

The important question is: are solar panels better for the environment than coal fired power generation?

if the answer is yes
the next question is can they replace coal fired power generation?

or, will it be cheaper? if its not cheaper, people wont uptake it

or, can we create a system where 100% of daytime consumption comes from solar without changing our consumption patterns?

[Mick_Marsh]

Bloody hell mate you weren't kidding:o

The Prius Bad for the Environment? (http://hubpages.com/hub/Prius)
I remember some years ago, a survey was done to rate the vehicles that were the best and worst for our environment from manufacture, through service life, to disposal.
The Prius was the worst. The Jeep Wrangler was the best because it was simple with minimal energy input to manufacture and just about everything in it was recyclable.
All those who want to be clean and green should be trading their Prius' in on a Jeep Wrangler. That'd be good for their image..

[Eevo]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/863.jpg

[Mick_Marsh]

The important question is: are solar panels better for the environment than coal fired power generation?
Sadly, we cannot get rid of coal fired power generation because it's cheap, reliable and can supply our needs at all times.
Solar panels cannot do this. Solar panels can only be used to supplement small scale domestic needs during the day.

[AndyG]

I feel much better now in my hand crafted aluminum can Defender that has utilized the same tooling for 60 years to minimize the environmental impact of changing the production line rashly, like every 50 years. :D

[RR P38]

Solar has got to start some where.
It is just starting to get a head of steam up now, once battery technology gets to a point where it can be charged and run your house at night coal is dead.
The coalition has been lobbied furiously by coal and power industry to shut down solar........a pity as we really do need to look at alternate energy sources.
Is a PV cell harmful to the environment?
Ask whom is telling us that it is!
They are certainly depleting rare earth minerals, for all the right reasons.


I am not posting this to stir the pot,I just thought it was an interesting read and maybe some of you will too.

How Green Are Those Solar Panels, Really? (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/)

[Mick_Marsh]

Solar has got to start some where.
It is just starting to get a head of steam up now, once battery technology gets to a point where it can be charged and run your house at night coal is dead.
The coalition has been lobbied furiously by coal and power industry to shut down solar........a pity as we really do need to look at alternate energy sources.
Is a PV cell harmful to the environment?
Ask whom is telling us that it is!
They are certainly depleting rare earth minerals, for all the right reasons.
So, a quick question, given a house would require a solar panel area the size of a housing block of land, what do you propose will supply trains, trams, office buildings, high rise flats & apartments and heavy industry if not coal?

[bee utey]

Solar cannot do this. Solar can only be used to supplement small scale domestic needs during the day.
Engineers are working on the next solar energy revolution, storage batteries. Costs will fall and solar energy will be storable for consumption whenever it's needed. First example off google:

https://cleantechnica.com/2014/12/01/us-navy-pushes-solar-energy-storage-solution/


The project will demonstrate how well a photovoltaic (PV) solar system and battery storage, disconnected from the grid, can provide energy for a user's critical loads during a given time period, enabling similar systems to be securely deployed at remote, mission critical facilities.

more:

Storage Is the New Solar: Will Batteries and PV Create an Unstoppable Hybrid Force? : Greentech Media (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/featured/Storage-Is-the-New-Solar-Will-Batteries-and-PV-Create-an-Unstoppable-Hybri)

Tesla Motors wants to build cheaper lithium batteries for vehicles as well as storage.

Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA), SolarCity Corp(NASDAQ:SCTY) News Analysis: Tesla Motors Inc Could Soon Be The Nation's Top Energy-Storage Vendor (http://www.bidnessetc.com/29260-tesla-motors-inc-tsla-could-soon-be-the-nations-top-energystorage-vendor/)

I've been watching this trend quietly unfold over the last couple of years, when it becomes mainstream it will change things quite substantially.

[AndyG]

Whole of life it would appear aPV is very harmfull, see post above . However there is a lot more to solar than what we see on our roofs, and some nasty side effects, for example the solar tower in Nevada? That just opened, and fries every bird that goes in front of the concentrating mirrors.

Whole of life is the way to look at these solutions, I don't see how a coal based Pirius can claim a clean title, different to an extent if hydro powered, but even a dam creates a lot of co2 during construction.

A lot of development in the nuclear field too, esp small units to decentralize power to where it's needed.

I would love to know to what extent coal has cleaned its act up in the last 50 years, taking Hazelwood as a starting point, and does it have much more potential to clean up.

[PhilipA]

The coalition has been lobbied furiously by coal and power industry to shut down solar........

AFAIR the Coalition has left the small scale REC program in place.
However the recent report on renewables ( by the renewable industry)claims large scale solar is nowhere competitive with wind.

If we can store solar power for when it is actually needed in the morning and afternoon peaks, then we could maybe do away with all the "spinning reserve" coal power that has to be kept on line all day in case it is needed when some clouds appear.
I am disappointed that governments and companies do not seem to be addressing the storage problem, except maybe the Molten salt thing in Spain which is part of large scale solar, and it turns out they ran generators at night to increase their subsidy.

The main storage options as I understand it are pumping water uphill during the day and then releasing it to run turbines in peak hours, and spinning massive flywheels on superconducting bearings. Neither of these options seems to have been taken up in a big way.
I think it is a dream that batteries could ever take the place of coal power for a normal household in a city with air conditioning, dishwashers, hot water etc. For committed individuals yes , for the mainstream , no.
Regards Philip A

[disco man]

Whole of life it would appear aPV is very harmfull, see post above . However there is a lot more to solar than what we see on our roofs, and some nasty side effects, for example the solar tower in Nevada? That just opened, and fries every bird that goes in front of the concentrating mirrors.

Whole of life is the way to look at these solutions, I don't see how a coal based Pirius can claim a clean title, different to an extent if hydro powered, but even a dam creates a lot of co2 during construction.

A lot of development in the nuclear field too, esp small units to decentralize power to where it's needed.

I would love to know to what extent coal has cleaned its act up in the last 50 years, taking Hazelwood as a starting point, and does it have much more potential to clean up.

A long read but a good one.

Can Coal Ever Be Clean? (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/coal/nijhuis-text)

[Eevo]

or example the solar tower in Nevada? That just opened, and fries every bird that goes in front of the concentrating mirrors.



hahahahaha!
thats hilarious.

[Ausfree]

I have been watching the progress of spray on solar paint over the last year or so. It covers the entire roof but they have a long way to go before it can be offered as an alternative to solar roof panels. It is only 11% efficient at the moment (but they are making progress) and does not last as long as conventional panels.

Anyrate have a read and gives us your thoughts!!!!:):)

Spray-On Solar May Be Cheaper And More Eco-Friendly Than The Panels On Your Roof | Co.Exist | ideas + impact (http://www.fastcoexist.com/3034495/spray-on-solar-may-be-cheaper-and-more-eco-friendly-than-the-panels-on-your-roof)

[ramblingboy42]

It does not matter what form of alternative energy we want to use.

It has a footprint.

Every system requires hardware and software.

As alternate systems develop they also perpetuate their existence.

Currently old school power generating provide the baseline to our needs and to produce the Renewable energy systems via a dirty fuel.

Once the renewables provide for the renewables then the systems become cleaner and possibly more economical .

I have said this before , but when Nicola Tesla introduced AC electricity to the world , it rocked the very foundations of industry and finance because the whole world was gearing up for DC generation.

Companies collapsed, financiers went broke , but it went ahead.....I believe to the cost of Tesla's life.

It will happen again , to the better of everyone.

Already major financial institutions and financiers are dropping fossil fuel in favour of renewable energy systems .

[PhilipA]

This could be it .
https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/lockheed%E2%80%99s-fusion-project-breaking-new-ground

If Lockheed is successful, solar and wind will whither to nothing and all the green companies will fail as will all of the coal generators.

Imagine a world with clean virtually unlimited power.
Regards Philip A

[Tombie]

This could be it .
https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/lockheed%E2%80%99s-fusion-project-breaking-new-ground

If Lockheed is successful, solar and wind will whither to nothing and all the green companies will fail as will all of the coal generators.

Imagine a world with clean virtually unlimited power.
Regards Philip A

Exciting times ahead if it gets off the ground...

[AndyG]

hahahahaha!
thats hilarious.

and here it is, i imagine the nearby KFC has gone bust:D

The World's Largest Solar Energy Plant Is Also a Massive Death Ray for Birds - The Wire (http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/02/nevadas-massive-solar-plant-death-ray-birds/358244/)

I wonder if the $1.6 Bn or any subsidy to business is better spent in long term pure research, which is then utilized when a competitive solution solution is found.

[Tank]

Solar panels are made of Silicon, Silicon is made from Quartz bearing rock, HUGE amounts of electricity (why most Silicon plants are placed close to a Power Station) millions of tonnes of Charcoal.
1 Tonne of Charcoal requires at least 7 tonne of wood, BHP had a plan to use charcoal as a flux, they would have required 9 million tonnes of Charcoal/year.
So mining Quartz, Power Station supply for Electric Arc smelters and millions of tonnes of trees, not counting emissions from all of this, which is horrendous, Solar Panels have a high cost to the environment and they don't work at night, (see "Charcoalition" Google it), Regards Frank.

[KarlB]

This could be it .
https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/lockheed%E2%80%99s-fusion-project-breaking-new-ground

If Lockheed is successful, solar and wind will whither to nothing and all the green companies will fail as will all of the coal generators.

Imagine a world with clean virtually unlimited power.
Regards Philip A

Fusion reaction has been of interest since the 1920s with the first successful man-made fusion device developed in the 1950s. Development has continued ever since but we are apparently still a long way from commercial power generation. Probably of more interest is Gen IV nuclear fission reactors (see Generation IV reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor) and Generation IV Nuclear Reactors: WNA (http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/nuclear-fuel-cycle/power-reactors/generation-iv-nuclear-reactors/) ) which really will solve the world's energy requirements. We certainly don't want the reactors that our Foreign Minister is alluding to.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[disco man]

A quick quiz,I scored 42.

Quiz: What You Don't Know About Solar Power (http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/energy/great-energy-challenge/solar-power-quiz/)

[AndyG]

Solar panels are made of Silicon, Silicon is made from Quartz bearing rock, HUGE amounts of electricity (why most Silicon plants are placed close to a Power Station) millions of tonnes of Charcoal.
1 Tonne of Charcoal requires at least 7 tonne of wood, BHP had a plan to use charcoal as a flux, they would have required 9 million tonnes of Charcoal/year.
So mining Quartz, Power Station supply for Electric Arc smelters and millions of tonnes of trees, not counting emissions from all of this, which is horrendous, Solar Panels have a high cost to the environment and they don't work at night, (see "Charcoalition" Google it), Regards Frank.

Ah, but its not in our backyard, or roof therefore it's Green

[DiscoMick]

I recall that when the first cars hit the roads skeptics said they would never replace horses. How many of us now ride horses?

[Gerokent]

A quick quiz,I scored 42.

Quiz: What You Don't Know About Solar Power (http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/energy/great-energy-challenge/solar-power-quiz/)


52 correct. Those USA related questions got me

[Mick_Marsh]

I recall that when the first cars hit the roads skeptics said they would never replace horses. How many of us now ride horses?
Just how old are you? You have a marvellous memory for your age.
It was also said, "The introduction of television will be the death of radio."
Today, I listen to way more radio than watch the telly, by orders of magnitude.

[Ausfree]

Just how old are you? You have a marvellous memory for your age.
It was also said, "The introduction of television will be the death of radio."
Today, I listen to way more radio than watch the telly, by orders of magnitude.

They did indeed say that, Mick. Radio had to substantially change its programming though. Also they said TV would be the death of picture theatre, it did kill of the local picture theatres but the large ones are still going.

[Mick_Marsh]

They did indeed say that, Mick. Radio had to substantially change its programming though. Also they said TV would be the death of picture theatre, it did kill of the local picture theatres but the large ones are still going.
And some of the local ones still exist. I don't often go to the megaplexes but I love going to the local cinema(s).