D4 Push button start issue

[JonW]

After hours of fruitless searching and other distractions, a new thread is required.

about 70% of starts in my 3.0TDV6 2010 model require a second push of the starter button.
Yes I know the sequence, brake then starter button. Does it more often when warm, but sometimes surprises me. Hardly ever does cold ie first start of the day.
Sometimes an message is shown but not often- Steering Not Unlocked.
Did it 3 times with a Prado driver in the passenger seat. That'll keep haunting me...

Anyhow, all ideas and comments are welcome.

[Tombie]

2nd press because it cranks but doesn't fire or a second press because it didn't do anything?

[Graeme]

There was a software update quite early to do with the steering lock on start-up.

Edit: Mine's problem was solved when I disabled the lock.

[JonW]

First press lights up the dash but no starter and no noise of steering lock being withdrawn.
Then the lights go out regardless of whether the button is still pressed or not.

[Tombie]

Had it occasionally, seems to be linked to how long the vehicle sat around.

Had all updates applied now and vehicle running at its best...

[RoverLander]

I have the same problem on my 2010 3.0 tdv6 but probably not as often. Sometimes it starts with the steering wheel locked message. It goes away after restarting the car.

I also get some bing bings (there must be a better way to describe these!) just after starting on some occasions. There are no associated messages.

Ive never mentioned it to the dealer as its not been a significant problem. Im curious what might be causing this to happen.

[Ferret]

I also get some bing bings (there must be a better way to describe these!) just after starting on some occasions. There are no associated messages.

I get these 2 'bings' also sometimes. About 15 secs after starting. Also wonder what they mean.

[LandyAndy]

I get these 2 'bings' also sometimes. About 15 secs after starting. Also wonder what they mean.

Next time it happens see if there is a warning triangle,use the right hand side togle switch it will say what the issue is.
On mine its usually because I didnt shut the rear hatch properley;)
;););)
Andrew

[JonW]

No bongs, no warnings, just wont start.
I did notice the lights on the dash a very slightly different so will check the difference next time and post it up.
Like Roverlander, insignificant in the big scheme of things but annoying none the less.

[Graeme]

I found it very annoying having to make several attempts to start and rather nervous driving with the message that the steering wheel was locked. Then when Drivesafe's RR steering wheel locked with the key still in the ignition as the failed alternator abruptly flattened the battery whilst still on the road, I changed the CCF to show that the steering column lock is not fitted. Neither failed starts nor steering column locked messages have since occurred and I'm much more confident that the steering wont lock whilst driving.

[Tassiefender]

No bongs, no warnings, just wont start.
I did notice the lights on the dash a very slightly different so will check the difference next time and post it up.
Like Roverlander, insignificant in the big scheme of things but annoying none the less.
Hi Jon,
My 2009 TDV6 D4 did exact same this morning... It has happened before (requiring a second press), but this time lights would come on for a second and then nothing. Tried it three times, no joy. Then I simply locked and unlocked the car from the remote key, and no issues. I can't help you with the solution, but your annoyance is shared!
Nick

[disco4now]

I had similar things with 2010 3.0 D4 (sometimes needing second press, steering lock message sometimes). From memory cured with an update of the instrument panel software.

Regards
Gerry

[SBD4]

Definitely get the software update done. This can get to a point where the car will not start at all and will only restart after left locked for a long period or a hard reset is done.

[nat_89]

Thats really odd!! I came from a prado to a D4 and the prado just needs a quick push to start and the D4 needs a second or two held in which took a bit to get used to. But never had any issues with mine so far.

[SBD4]

Thats really odd!! I came from a prado to a D4 and the prado just needs a quick push to start and the D4 needs a second or two held in which took a bit to get used to. But never had any issues with mine so far.

These are the niggles you have to put up with as an early adopter :D A major annoyance and inconvenience(the car not starting at all) until you know how to over come it. Seems my gremlin has come back - will be asking the dealer to sort it at the next service.

[BobD]

My 2010 D4 did the second button push thing quite a lot when I first picked it up from Sydney and drove it back to Perth across Australia.


Every now and then I get a call from wife saying she can't start the car after a failed first button push. With mine, you need to push the button again to turn the system off before attempting another start with the brake pedal pressed, otherwise, nothing happens at all. That's when I get the call and have to remind her to turn it off before trying to start it again.


Bob

[JonW]

I found it very annoying having to make several attempts to start and rather nervous driving with the message that the steering wheel was locked. Then when Drivesafe's RR steering wheel locked with the key still in the ignition as the failed alternator abruptly flattened the battery whilst still on the road, I changed the CCF to show that the steering column lock is not fitted. Neither failed starts nor steering column locked messages have since occurred and I'm much more confident that the steering wont lock whilst driving.

Can you do this without connecting to the system? ie through the dash controls?
Also does this mean the steering then never locks?

Seems like the answer but more of a cure than fixing the root cause.
A software update may be required.

[Graeme]

The steering lock was disabled using a Faultmate Extreme diagnostic tool to change the CCF setting. The lock now never operates.

[nat_89]

These are the niggles you have to put up with as an early adopter :D A major annoyance and inconvenience(the car not starting at all) until you know how to over come it. Seems my gremlin has come back - will be asking the dealer to sort it at the next service.

Fingers crossed it will be all good dont want to have a prado person hear about that haha!!

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi

I've had the same issue (and continue to have intermittent experiences of this). Mine is a MY10 ('09) 3.0 TDV6 SE...

There is one other thread on this forum that relates to this issue, but I haven't got it handy... Similar comments to those already posted in this one.

I had one dealer look at the issue (Bundaberg LR), and they replaced the brake switch, as this can be a cause of the fault.
But... you guessed it... it came back... So it wasn't the brake switch (this time at least)...

I asked another dealer about it when it was getting serviced (Austral LR in Brisbane). The mechanic there was very helpful, and explained the start process that the car goes through. I can't remember it all now, but the guts of it is:
1. brake pedal has to be depressed (brake switch on)
2. ABS sensor has to see some sort of switch - I think this is a pressure switch, which should actuate when the brake pedal is pressed
3. some other checks, that I can't recall (steering lock etc)

Hence, why repairers will replace brake switches...

The mechanic said that in my case, the ABS sensor wasn't seeing the pressure (or whatever it is), so the startup sequence was being 'aborted'. He said to make sure you're 'standing' on the brake pedal.

I find when this occurs (and it still does it sometimes), it's often when the car is hot/warm. When I get in the car, the brake pedal can sometimes be 'soft', and it will travel a fair way to the floor. It's these times when the car won't start.
If I lift my foot off the brake, and then depress again, it is a lot 'harder', and will only get a smaller amount of travel. Generally, the car will start next go...

So that's my fix - lift foot off brake, depress again, make sure you're pressing hard, and she's good to go...

I agree - a little frustrating... ;)

[Hatchy]

This might be dumb. But all these cars seem about '09 or '10 vintage. Maybe the battery is getting old and needs replacing? So many electrics to run and if the battery is near end of life other parts/sensors show up 'issues', as they just don't get the 'charge/energy they require. Just thought I would put it out there.

[SBD4]

Hi

I've had the same issue (and continue to have intermittent experiences of this). Mine is a MY10 ('09) 3.0 TDV6 SE...

There is one other thread on this forum that relates to this issue, but I haven't got it handy... Similar comments to those already posted in this one.

I had one dealer look at the issue (Bundaberg LR), and they replaced the brake switch, as this can be a cause of the fault.
But... you guessed it... it came back... So it wasn't the brake switch (this time at least)...

I asked another dealer about it when it was getting serviced (Austral LR in Brisbane). The mechanic there was very helpful, and explained the start process that the car goes through. I can't remember it all now, but the guts of it is:
1. brake pedal has to be depressed (brake switch on)
2. ABS sensor has to see some sort of switch - I think this is a pressure switch, which should actuate when the brake pedal is pressed
3. some other checks, that I can't recall (steering lock etc)

Hence, why repairers will replace brake switches...

The mechanic said that in my case, the ABS sensor wasn't seeing the pressure (or whatever it is), so the startup sequence was being 'aborted'. He said to make sure you're 'standing' on the brake pedal.

I find when this occurs (and it still does it sometimes), it's often when the car is hot/warm. When I get in the car, the brake pedal can sometimes be 'soft', and it will travel a fair way to the floor. It's these times when the car won't start.
If I lift my foot off the brake, and then depress again, it is a lot 'harder', and will only get a smaller amount of travel. Generally, the car will start next go...

So that's my fix - lift foot off brake, depress again, make sure you're pressing hard, and she's good to go...

I agree - a little frustrating... ;)

Interesting. I do exactly the same as you do but some times it refuses to start. It's happens so infrequently that it's hard to do any analysis of what conditions exist as by the time the next event happens I've relaxed to the point I forget to take note of what the car is doing.

My daughter recons she has noticed the Land Rover logo does not show on the display when it happens. She mentioned that the last time it happened so I have not been able to verify that.

[SBD4]

This might be dumb. But all these cars seem about '09 or '10 vintage. Maybe the battery is getting old and needs replacing? So many electrics to run and if the battery is near end of life other parts/sensors show up 'issues', as they just don't get the 'charge/energy they require. Just thought I would put it out there.

Unfortunately it's not the battery, mine has done it twice since having a new battery put in 4 months ago. It's done it 3 times this year.

[Graeme]

Also does this mean the steering then never locks?

Seems like the answer but more of a cure than fixing the root cause.
I disabled the lock because I didn't want to be exposed to the s/w deciding to lock it whilst driving. It was a bonus that the starting issue was 100% avoided by doing so, suggesting that the steering lock module is a major player in the starting failures. The steering locked message that sometimes occurred adds weight to the theory.

[Nicky]

How did you disable the SW lock?

[BobD]

Mine had a new battery this year so its not the battery. It's also had software updates. Mostly it is fine, it's just that occasionally it doesn't start and we have to turn it off and then restart.


Bob

[stray dingo]

Since it was serviced last week, I've been finding the same - prior to that, rarely an issue.
I'm not sure if I'm just releasing it a little too soon or if something's changed.
(MY11, battery tested ok)

[Graeme]

How did you disable the SW lock?

The steering lock was disabled using a Faultmate Extreme diagnostic tool to change the CCF setting to steering-lock-not-fitted. The lock now never operates.

[JonW]

Did a fair bit of running around today, found the brake pedal quite soft so gave it 2 pumps until firm and the car starts straight away at all times except once where the pedal was still quite soft. A third push got the pedal hard and the car started without issue.

[BobD]

JonW, I think the only thing that pumping the pedal would be doing is using up the vacuum assistance for the brakes so that it is more difficult to push the brake pedal. This would actually reduce the brake line pressures, not increase them! I don't think that is the solution to the issue but keep trying anyway.


Bob

[JonW]

JonW, I think the only thing that pumping the pedal would be doing is using up the vacuum assistance for the brakes so that it is more difficult to push the brake pedal. This would actually reduce the brake line pressures, not increase them! I don't think that is the solution to the issue but keep trying anyway.


Bob

Bob you are quite possibly right, have not thought about it enough to refute your theory, it is Friday arvo after all:D

Seemed to work though. Scientifically inconclusive evidence.

[Graeme]

There are no pressure sensors in the brake system. Perhaps operating the brake switch a few times helps though.

[BobD]

If there are no pressure sensors then the only benefit would be operating the brake switch to get it to work properly. If that is the case it sounds like a new brake switch is in order, sooner rather than later!

[SBD4]

These are the niggles you have to put up with as an early adopter :D A major annoyance and inconvenience(the car not starting at all) until you know how to over come it. Seems my gremlin has come back - will be asking the dealer to sort it at the next service.

Well, this issue has really done me in over the last six months. It progressively got worse to the point that the it might happen 2 or three times a week and finally to the point where a hard reset would not get it started. It would always start without fail if just left alone for some time.

I persisted with it until each service mainly because I was trying to identify a pattern to the failure - I couldn't find one. So at each service I would do my best to explain any minute detail that might help them diagnose the issue as there were never any faults recorded and they could never get it to fail.

I think it got to a point where the dealer was starting to think I was nuts (They never treated me as such or tried to diminish the issue) until I went to pick the car up after a 4 day stay with them. I toddled out to the forecourt, jumped in, Pushed the button - nothing! Never have I been so happy to have that problem happen right then. Lots of scratching of heads from techs and managers. Back in the loan car for another week.

The final stint was a three week stay with the dealers. It had failed to start again one saturday morning after the sons match. Entire family in the car, ****ed off wife - managed to get it started by re-seating fuses in the engine bay, very lucky break. Monday, phoned the dealer confident I had pinned the issue to the fuse box. No probs bring it in tomorrow. Trouble is the car refused to start that night and left me stranded at Engadine Woollies. No amount of fuse pulling or car resetting was getting it started. Left it there overnight and picked it up next morning - started no problem.

This time it was decided that the dealer would give the car to one of the techs to drive with all the gear required to fix it kept in it. It took two weeks for it to fail and the ecu was deemed the culprit. ECU replaced and car driven and tested for another week by the dealer.

So, I picked it up Friday before last ready for our road trip starting on the Sunday. Family not happy at the prospect of it not starting while in the middle of nowhere. "How am I going to know it's fixed if I don't drive it?" I ask.

We are on our way and wife insists we must stop at Berry for lunch and have a wander around the shops. No probs, parking angel has granted us an instant spot on the highway in front of all the shops. We slap our selves on the back for a job well done and get on with finding a pie. After following SWMBO around the shops for a while we head back to the car, jump back in to continue onto our destination. NO START!

It was a beautiful sunny day in Berry but I am sure BOM would have been furiously writing up a warning for a micro burst that suddenly appeared on their radar because there was one big black cloud over the disco. To top it off I was instantly struck by a major bout of the trots. This was just getting better and better.

I sent the family off to do some more "shopping" while I scrambled to find a dunny that didn't have a queue and the audience to my condition was not so large. The dunny episode gave me the opportunity to get get some clarity on my course of action:


It's Sunday afternoon 2:00PM
I must get us to our dinner appt by 6:00PM 1.5 hours away
I will not call Land Rover assist because that will guarantee we will miss the dinner appt
I will try and see if there is a car hire company open
I will call the dealer sales manager to see what they can do
Might post an SOS on AULRO if all else fails


I got the dealer sales manger on the line who did all he could to help me but being sunday arvo he was unable to get hold of anyone. He was going to line up a tow truck but I wasn't keen. This disco has never been on a flatbed and is never going to be. I told him I would call him back in 5 minutes. I thought I would give the hard reset another go - nothing to lose. So, I grit my teeth to suffer the humiliation of opening the hood on the main street of Berry with bumper to bumper traffic and sidewalks packed full of people knowing every nissota driver would be having a cackle. Had one bloke offer up his help to which thanked him and said it was under control. "So you wouldn't recommend them [LR] to any one?" he asked. "I absolutely would!" I said "Best car I have ever had - love it" I said.

I proceeded to remove the battery cables and short them together. Once re-installed and tightened I noted that the +ve clamp, although tightly done up, was still able to be moved on the terminal. hhhhmmmm, that'll be the problem then, poor connection, not enough current to the starter. I proceeded to shine up the dull battery terminal and try my damnedest to tighten the clamp to better the connection. Still not tight but better. Tried the start and BINGO away she went! My status went from the proverbial zero to hero instantly - it was sunny over the disco again, weather warning cancelled.

Called the dealer back to let them know I was on my way and and made dinner with half an hour to spare. I organised a auto elec to sort the clamp out. Absolutely no issues in the last 11 days and 1500KM.

SO, in short, I believe the problem to be a weak electrical connection between the clamp and the the battery terminal. It looks like over time, the conical mount that the nut tightens down on has worn and the clamp has also spread thus preventing it from clamping tightly on the terminal. The fact that the battery terminal was tarnished did not help things. I think I will have the dealer replace the clamps if it happens again.

Moral of the story is try the simple things first. I think that with these cars we are always focused on the complicated parts when in actual fact it is usually a simple thing that that is causing the issue. The complicated parts of this car have never let me down.

The longer I go with out an issue the more I will know I have fixed the problem.

During the the time the dealer has been trying to fix the problem the following has been replaced:


Software updates
Battery - my cost
Steering column lock - warranty
Central Junction Box - Warranty
Key Vehicle Module - Warranty
Instrument Cluster - Warranty
Engine Control Unit - Warranty


I have extended warranty and it has well and truly paid for itself in this instance.

I can say that the dealer went out of their way to try and sort this issue which by its intermittent nature was very hard to identify.

Finally, I was very nearly ready to turf the disco as I could not abide my family being stranded another time. I still love it though and now have full confidence in it again knowing that the issue was not more insidious than it apparently was (read wiring issue). Hopefully this is the end if it.

[Tombie]

Scary though isn't it. That all that gear was replaced for the simplicity of a battery clamp!!!

[LRD414]

Moral of the story is try the simple things first. I think that with these cars we are always focused on the complicated parts when in actual fact it is usually a simple thing that that is causing the issue.

Good advice.

Well done Sean, perseverance eventually pays off (fingers crossed).

Also interesting that you replaced the battery along the long and tortuous journey. Should that not have fixed the issue?
Was there an improvement (reliable starting) after battery replacement and then the problem returned as the new battery's terminal tarnished?
Or perhaps the clamp was just getting progressively worse and the replacement battery made zero difference.

Scott

[SBD4]

Scary though isn't it. That all that gear was replaced for the simplicity of a battery clamp!!!

My thoughts exactly, Mike.

All the times I thought it was the hard reset that fixed the problem I now believe it was simply the battery clamp being re-seated that did it.

Not that thrilled that my car was taken apart to that degree for what, at this point, is a simple problem. Nothing ever goes back the same so I hope that in itself does not introduce future problems. Time will tell.

Good thing is I now know the car itself is solid.

[SBD4]

Good advice.

Well done Sean, perseverance eventually pays off (fingers crossed).

Also interesting that you replaced the battery along the long and tortuous journey. Should that not have fixed the issue?
Was there an improvement (reliable starting) after battery replacement and then the problem returned as the new battery's terminal tarnished?
Or perhaps the clamp was just getting progressively worse and the replacement battery made zero difference.

Scott

Thanks Scott, here's hoping!

The problem showed itself again within 6 weeks of the battery being changed. I don't think the terminals were cleaned before fitting. I guess it's not really something you think about doing with a new battery and when that nut is tightened hard you think that the clamp is tight but its not. With the cable running the way it does, movement is not that apparent. I think expansion due to heat may have played role in the loosening as well.

[Tombie]

Thanks Scott, here's hoping!

The problem showed itself again within 6 weeks of the battery being changed. I don't think the terminals were cleaned before fitting. I guess it's not really something you think about doing with a new battery and when that nut is tightened hard you think that the clamp is tight but its not. With the cable running the way it does, movement is not that apparent. I think expansion due to heat may have played role in the loosening as well.

The other factor could be as simple as the manufacturing tolerances of the new battery terminal diameter...

[SBD4]

A little follow up to let you all know that it has been more than two months since the last "no start" episode.

Looks like the issue has been fully resolved. :D

So, if you ever have any kind of electrical issue with the vehicle, be sure to check that there is good electrical continuity between the clamp and terminals on the battery. Lights on your dash does not mean that the connection is good enough to provide the current for the starter motor.

A good clean of contact surfaces and adjustment to the clamps so they clamp tight on the terminals is required. Doing this may well save you time, money and heartache.

[Barryp]

All of the unclamping and re-clamping for the hard resets would have worn the battery terminal clamps and added to the problem in all probability.
Regards
Barry

[SBD4]

All of the unclamping and re-clamping for the hard resets would have worn the battery terminal clamps and added to the problem in all probability.
Regards
Barry

Without a doubt Barry!

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

I'm still having this issue...
The battery was replaced recently (separate post), and it still has the starting issue - regardless of hot/cold, time of day etc.
When the battery was replaced, I took the -ve terminal off and cleaned the inside of the clamp. I also had a little go at filing away a bit at the clamp faces, where the bolt closes the 2 faces together to provide the clamping force on the battery post.
==>> no change!

Which battery terminal/cable did you have replaced - the -ve or +ve?

The -ve terminal has the battery voltage monitor as part of the terminal clamp, and the cable is soldered/welded to the battery monitor.
How did Battery World make one of these up? They look like a specific L/R part to me??

I've had the L/R -ve battery lead (inc battery monitor) quoted at between $270 - $450!!!

Thanks.

Rob

[SBD4]

I'm still having this issue...
The battery was replaced recently (separate post), and it still has the starting issue - regardless of hot/cold, time of day etc.
When the battery was replaced, I took the -ve terminal off and cleaned the inside of the clamp. I also had a little go at filing away a bit at the clamp faces, where the bolt closes the 2 faces together to provide the clamping force on the battery post.
==>> no change!

Which battery terminal/cable did you have replaced - the -ve or +ve?

The -ve terminal has the battery voltage monitor as part of the terminal clamp, and the cable is soldered/welded to the battery monitor.
How did Battery World make one of these up? They look like a specific L/R part to me??

I've had the L/R -ve battery lead (inc battery monitor) quoted at between $270 - $450!!!

Thanks.

Rob

G'day Rob, I did not get anything replaced, it was all cleaned & tightened thoroughly. This repair/maintenance was good enough to last until Sunday[bawl] when it happen for the 1st time in more than 2 months!

I could not do any trouble shooting as the workshop tightened the bejesus out of the +ve clamp to the point I rounded the nut with a ring spanner trying to get it off.:censored:

I think I would have been able to fix it had I been able to get both clamps off. As it was, I left it where it was until the next morning when it started first go.

Booked in to replace the camps on Monday. Dealer still thinks it is something other than what I think it is (might be right).

I notice both our vehicles are MY10 - truly a head scratcher. I'll report back on further developments as they come.

[Graeme]

After recently having some car-park damage to my D4 repaired, the vehicle was started and driven a couple of times before the task of re-connecting the aux battery was commenced. The positive battery terminal could easily be rotated on the post yet the clamp's nut was excessively tight. Undoing the nut allowed the terminal to be gently tapped further down the post to spread the terminal where the nut could be lightly tightened yet still clamped the terminal firmly.

I wonder how many times this occurs where all seems OK at the time but is the cause of later electrical faults.

[SBD4]

After recently having some car-park damage to my D4 repaired, the vehicle was started and driven a couple of times before the task of re-connecting the aux battery was commenced. The positive battery terminal could easily be rotated on the post yet the clamp's nut was excessively tight. Undoing the nut allowed the terminal to be gently tapped further down the post to spread the terminal where the nut could be lightly tightened yet still clamped the terminal firmly.

I wonder how many times this occurs where all seems OK at the time but is the cause of later electrical faults.

Yes that is exactly what happens. In addition to that, it seems that the conical mount that the nut tightens down on to draw the clamp together wears over time making it less effective.

[SBD4]

I realised I had not updated this thread on the final outcomes with this issue.

the car failed to start two more times but I was able to get it started with this simple procedure each time:



ensure the ignition is turned off
turn the ignition on to accessories mode by leaving the foot off the brake and pressing the start button.
Turn the ignition off by pressing the start button
Now start the car as usual with the foot on the brake and pressing the start button. You should hear the steering column lock disengage at the same time.

I came up with this after remembering Bobd had just advised his wife to restart the car by turning it off then back on. I had always tried this previously but the difference being that I always had my foot on the brake which never worked for me so I had a careful think about how I might achieve the same results as Bob and came up with the above steps.

Another thing I developed was a very keen sense of when I was going to get the issue. The car would begin to take that half a second longer before it would kick the starter over. A soon as I felt that it was taking "too long" I would release to the start button so as not to force the "Steering Column Locked" error to be displayed (usually would display after about 3 seconds of holding the button in without a start). In the past, seeing that message sealed my fate so I tried to avoid triggering it as best I could.

To the person who bought my car from Purnell Motors a couple of weeks ago (xmas '15), who ever you may be, I advise you to get the steering lock disabled in the CCF. I had never done this, as Graeme had recommended as the dealer was not happy when I mentioned it (PS Purnell were very good to me with trying to sort this out).

Hopefully this will help someone.

Aside from this issue I could not fault the car.

[BobD]

Sean,


That is correct. You must have your foot off the brake to switch it off and then on again to start. Mine hasn't done it for quite a while now, especially because my wife is not driving it as an every day driver.

[Stuart02]

It reads a bit like you were holding down the start button rather than pressing and releasing? Wouldn't that force the car to override it's pre-start routine including the glow plug warm up?

[Graeme]

No, holding the start button achieves nothing. The cause seems to be a too slow to release steering column lock on 1st attempt but could be purely poor software timing allowance.

[kenl]

In a totally non scientific way I have found that opening the drivers door if it doesn't start the first time will make it start immediately the second time. The door is left open during the procedure and the car gets very excited about it and bong madly, then I just close the door.

When I have this problem it is always related to the condition of my batteries, I run an Engel all year round and during hot periods and short runs the batteries get run down.

Try a good charger and at least a 12hr charge, even new batteries can have a low charge state.

[northiam]

I seem to be having the same issue.

Was this resolved?

Starts first time when unlocked.

If not locked or sitting in car waiting for the mrs with engine off, fails to start 1st time mostly now!

Regards

[DiscoJeffster]

I seem to be having the same issue.

Was this resolved?

Starts first time when unlocked.

If not locked or sitting in car waiting for the mrs with engine off, fails to start 1st time mostly now!

Regards

Engine turns over and just doesn’t grab?

[northiam]

Sorry its doesnt do nada, just all dash pre ignition lights, no starter motor no warning messages.

If you dont apply foot brake then it messages as normal, apply brake

If you lock the car with remote then unlock all good...

Its a 2010 with remote unlocking not later prox fob

Regards

[TB]

Hmmm. I’ve noticed this behaviour a couple of times on my 2010 D4 lately too. First press no go. Release the brake, depress again, has worked for me.

The steering lock is just an anti theft thing, right?

[northiam]

Hmmm. I’ve noticed this behaviour a couple of times on my 2010 D4 lately too. First press no go. Release the brake, depress again, has worked for me.

The steering lock is just an anti theft thing, right?

I just tried to disable steering col lock CCF on my new Gap-tool but can not find it under body or instrument control [bigsad]

[LRD414]

Do you have full CCF access? You need to request it from Gap. Note that it’s a case of user beware because it (entire CCF) is untested and it’s feasible to cause issues if the wrong values are set.

Scott

[northiam]

No I dont have full access as I have never requested it, I guess I need to email them?

What wrong values? Maybe I will try all else before disabling steering lock.

This firmware update mention here for the D4 can the Gap-tool perform this function or is this LR dealer only?

Thanks

[LRD414]

Firmware updates are available via iiD purchased from Gap. It’s hard to know which one you need other than to bring particular ECUs up to latest version.

I was making the general point that changing CCF values without knowledge can have unintended consequences and this is why Gap don’t provide full access initially and don’t have supporting documentation because they can’t possibly know all permutations of values for different models.

However, turning off the steering lock will have little to zero affect on anything else and has already been done as per Graeme’s comments. So I would consider that pretty safe if I was in your position. I would also expect the latest firmware for the relevant ECU to be safe and that may fix the issue but that costs money and the issue is not proven to be software, as also mentioned by Graeme.

Scott

[northiam]

Thanks
I noticed some ecu,s stated "updates available" so I will try that next...
This firmware via Gap is that the same as what LR would update at a dealer?

[LRD414]

Thanks
I noticed some ecu,s stated "updates available" so I will try that next...
This firmware via Gap is that the same as what LR would update at a dealer?

That’s my understanding but I haven’t had a reason to look into it in detail.

Scott

[SBD4]

Listen to the the startup sequence during normal operation, when you press the start button you will hear the steering wheel lock retract before the engine starts. When the "no start issue" happens you should notice no sound from the lock due to it not retracting. This is key to the issue.

Do what Graeme suggests, disable the steering lock in the CCF so that it is removed from the start up sequence.

Had I done this myself I would have avoided much anguish!

[northiam]

Thanks
I hear a soleniod type noise after shutdown a few minutes after but never before start up?

[SBD4]

Thanks
I hear a soleniod type noise after shutdown a few minutes after but never before start up?
That noise you hear a couple of minutes after shut down is the steering wheel lock. When things are working properly you should hear that same sound very shortly after pressing the start button. If you don't hear it your engine will not start. For the engine to start the steering lock must be disengaged - it's part of the start up sequence.

[DiscoJeffster]

That noise you hear a couple of minutes after shut down is the steering wheel lock. When things are working properly you should hear that same sound very shortly after pressing the start button. If you don't hear it your engine will not start. For the engine to start the steering lock must be disengaged - it's part of the start up sequence.

I think you’ll find the sound of the engine starting is obscuring the solenoid retraction sounds on startup for most.

[scarry]

It is normal for the D4 to 'think' for a few seconds before starting every so many starts.
Don't know how often it is supposed to do this,but it does do it every so often.

i notice a noise at the gearbox gear selecter,but not in the steering column.

[SBD4]

I think you’ll find the sound of the engine starting is obscuring the solenoid retraction sounds on startup for most.
Perhaps, but it is a very obvious sound inside the cabin and was easy to hear in my 2010 disco and now in the 2016 sport. I guess I may be a little more attuned to it given the issues I had.

[SBD4]

It is normal for the D4 to 'think' for a few seconds before starting every so many starts.
Don't know how often it is supposed to do this,but it does do it every so often.

i notice a noise at the gearbox gear selecter,but not in the steering column.

This is very true as well, sometimes it takes a little longer to roll the engine. Particularly in cold weather when the glow plugs need a second to warm up. It's important not to confuse the two things.

The clicking you hear in the gear selector should be related to the brake being pressed. Once the brake is pressed the solenoid releases the lock on the selector so it can be moved.

[Tombie]

It is normal for the D4 to 'think' for a few seconds before starting every so many starts.
Don't know how often it is supposed to do this,but it does do it every so often.

i notice a noise at the gearbox gear selecter,but not in the steering column.

Yes. Especially if it’s been sitting longer than usual or it’s a bit cooler...

[northiam]

Some help interpreting thanks

Thou they are historic? I dont know if current?

Viewed in the pending tick when confirmed unticked (I think)

Thanks

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/8.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/9.jpg

[DiscoJeffster]

Some help interpreting thanks

Thou they are historic? I dont know if current?

Viewed in the pending tick when confirmed unticked (I think)

Thanks

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/8.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/9.jpg

Well mate. There you go. Seems spot on with the previous diagnosis. I’ve never had a column lock error on mine.

On a side note, my previous FL2 use to come up occasionally with steering column locked after starting, but as I was driving I could assure it it wasn’t [emoji846]. Seems a common LR’ism.

[SBD4]

Here's a list of all faults for the column lock from the workshop manual. Hopefully you can use the suggested causes to help fault find.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

I have a 2010 D4 3.0L. Which seems to be the main culprit for this issue.

I posted earlier in this thread - I was constantly having a 'no-start', and it may happen 2 or 3 times before it actually started.
I didn't have any error messages regarding my steering lock.
I did have many people tell me to push harder on the brake! [bawl]
I did eventually get full CCF access from GAP for my iidtool (which is awesome - best ~$600 spent on my Disco!).

So, since I've disabled the steering lock (about 8mths ago), I have not had 1 recurrence of this problem. Peace!
Starts first time, every time! I am confident that for my car, this has fixed the fault. As per this thread, there appears to be a few other causes (circuit boards replaced under the dash etc), but the steering lock was the culprit for me.

I hope it's as easy for you!

Thanks.

Rob

[Tombie]

That’s a good result Rob...

You may find though (maybe test it out) that just the system reboot after you were in the CCF resolved the glitch...

Either way your problem has gone.

[northiam]

That’s a good result Rob...

You may find though (maybe test it out) that just the system reboot after you were in the CCF resolved the glitch...

Either way your problem has gone.

Well

Since I last plugged in Gap-tool I also changed the CCF to enable global locking as mentioned in the owners manual.

That doesnt seem to have worked as only the RH rear door window closed others remain open (none before)?

The starting problem however seems resolved as changing any CCF seems to reboot the whole system!!!

Tried starting a few times all OK so far.

I did see on the Gap-Tool a master reset, I wonder if that is worth a look in future?

[SBD4]

Well

Since I last plugged in Gap-tool I also changed the CCF to enable global locking as mentioned in the owners manual.

That doesnt seem to have worked as only the RH rear door window closed others remain open (none before)?

The starting problem however seems resolved as changing any CCF seems to reboot the whole system!!!

Tried starting a few times all OK so far.

I did see on the Gap-Tool a master reset, I wonder if that is worth a look in future?
I'd be almost willing to bet the issue will continue until you disable the lock. I could go several months without it happening and then have it three times in a week. It will be interesting to see how you go. At least you can be confident of resolving it if it does come back based on Robs result.

[craig a]

I had a similar problem which was down to low battery charge brought about by lots of short trips. The car would try to start get half way through the sequence then stop. Sometimes flashing dashboard lights. Since adding a solar panel to the car which maintains float voltage 13.2V when charging and 12.6 volts when off the problem has been solved. There was nothing wrong with the battery just not getting charged properly.