New Project S2a - engine advice needed

[baden28]

Hi all,


I've just purchased a 1963?? S2a tray back and am planning on doing a full rebuild. First off I'm stripping it down and starting with the chassis and working my way up from there.


I'm not too concerned about keeping it original. I want the look and general feel of the S2a but want it as my daily drive and camping vehicle. Modifications I'm thinking of are:

Suspension - thinking of parabolic;
Cab - seats, radio, UHF, SatNav, general creature comforts;
Tray; and
Engine.
What I'll appreciate advice on is the engine. I'd like to move to a turbo diesel. I've been looking at the 200TDI, 300TDI, and the 2.5TD. I after advice about which would be the easiest/least amount of modifications of the three engines. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, should I look at changing the gearbox for the new engine?


I expect the rebuild to take quite a while (1-2 years). This will be a labour of love and something I've been wanting to do for a long time.


A pic of my new beast (Ralph) is below.


Thanks,


Baden.

[dandlandyman]

That bullbar is going to interfere with your headlights.

The 2.5Td and the 200Tdi are only slightly more than a bolt-in conversion, whereas the 300 requires resited chassis engine mounts or redesigned engine mount brackets. The older engines are continuing to become harder to find in good order. Defender and Discovery Tdi's have different turbo mounting heights which will foul in unusual ways in the Series engine bay but you can work your way around all of these.

I've heard good things about parabolics for comfort, and no complaints about durability yet. The only thing I don't like is the prices I've been quoted. I haven't yet seen a set made for 1-tonne capacity, as you will need for a trayback with camper canopy.

Ashcroft Transmissions do a conversion kit to fit a Series transfer case to either Tdi gearbox (LT77, R380, or even the LT85 Santana) but I've heard that availability is variable. They are all 5-speeds so you can do without an overdrive. Keeping the LT230 transfer case (a lot easier to fit into a 6cyl chassis) means trying to dig up a Stage1 V8 front axle for its CV joints.

6cyl brakes are a great idea for a regular driver, or consider disc brake conversions at about $1000 per axle. The 4cyl brakes are good in fighting-fit form but there are many more cars (and, consequently, morons) on the roads now than when it was built!

Defender seats will bolt in quite easily, though there are some other small car seats that will bodge in. I've removed my almost redundant centre seat for a console of sorts but I have even seen a small dog seat fitted in there.

I could easily fill the whole site with ideas how to do your Landy, though everyone else has already done it. Check out all the rebuild threads - you will be truly stunned at the ideas for accessories and modifications.

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4 (still in disguise), 68 2B FC pet6 (still resting quietly), 74 S3 109" pet4, plus 31 other parts/project cars.

[gromit]

Search through the 'other powered Series Land Rovers' section, you'll find a lot of info on 200 & 300 Tdi conversions. 200Tdi seems easier but getting harder to find and some parts are hard to source.
Find out whether any 'engineering' is needed to get the finished vehicle registered, if it is, get an engineer involved early in the project to make sure you get it right.

Best of luck.

Colin

[baden28]

Thanks for the info and advice. I've been having a look at what's available in the way of engines and what other engines people have transplanted into Series landys. There isn't much in the way of 200Tdi and 2.5Td and those that are available are bring reasonable $$$. I have also started to look of other non-LR engines as well.


Colin - thanks for the advice re getting an engineer involved early. I'll be sure and do that (after doing mod and spending the $$$ I'd hate to have it knocked back).


Dan - thanks for your advice/info. Being new to this I can use all the advice I can get (BTW the bulbar came off today and it would be going back on. I'm going to fabricate my own bar, but that's a long way off yet).


Also, I saw a mention of potentially putting a supercharger onto the existing 2.25 petrol. Has anyone done this? Also, are there any other performance/driveline mods that can be done to the 2.25 petrol to make it more user-friendly as a daily drive? Seeing the cost of an engine conversion I may have to consider doing what I can with the existing engine.


Cheers,


Baden.

[JDNSW]

As the others have commented. Note that the 2.5TD engine was not sold in Australia, so these will be very thin on the ground.

As a daily driver the 2a original engine is quite practical when unloaded provided it is up to scratch - there is a very big difference between typical engines and one that has carburetter, ignition and timing spot on. Most engines were fitted with 7:1 compression heads, and unless fitted with an early head, the head is easily skimmed to provide 8:1 (or even higher if you don't mind being confined to premium unleaded). C/R is specified by a 7 (or no mark) or 8 stamped on a raised boss on the top of the head just outside the rocker cover opposite the carburetter. No raised boss = early 7:1 head. The early heads are not guaranteed to have enough metal to safely skim, but you can probably get away with a modest increase.

Other improvements to engine power have been gained by fitting a more free flowing exhaust system, different carburetter and intake manifold, even reprofiled camshaft. But most of these improve peak power at the expense of flexibility, and certainly will not improve fuel economy, which is unlikely to be great whatever you do.

Belt driven superchargers were fitted to a few 2a Landrovers in airport fire service, but I have never seen one or heard first hand anything about them.

Performance will be reduced by the use of oversize tyres, low tyre pressure, aggressive mud tread, dragging brakes, incorrect steering alignment etc.

Parabolic springs provide an improved ride because of the lack of interleaf friction. Almost the same result can be provided by stripping the spring, smoothing any ridges at end of leaves, lubricating and reassembling springs.

The major problem with a 109 as a daily driver is likely to be the lack of power steering and large turning circle when parking, although both are helped with suitable tyres (and pressures) and properly adjusted steering stops.

As a daily driver, fitting a reversing light and four way flashers would be worthwhile - neither were fitted to any 2as sold in Australia - for that matter, early ones did not even have flashers or a LH windscreen wiper.

John

[Phil B]

Baden,

As John has said the 2.25 or 2.6 LR engines have potential that is unexploited in their original set up.
There are several threads on here about mods to both and they include electronic ignition (a must IMHO), extractors, higher compression, better exhausts, better brakes.
I have rebuit 2 2.25 petrol SWB's so far and opted for retaining the original engines in both.
The second one was a complete engine rebuild with new pistons, bearings, conrods, rings, gaskets and seals, reground crank, rebore, head skim, new valve seats and reground valves, new Weber carb. This rebuild was done by George at Land Vehicle Spares in Silverdale, NSW and cost $4k but it was totally worth the effort and cost.
I have added a new rad, Defender seats retrimmed, canvas bikini hood, thermostat, hoses, better exhaust, electronic fuel pump, new high output coil and electronic igintion.
She really goes well now and has been used as a daily driver by my son when his car had to have a head overhaul. No issues at all in 4000km since "new".
I have spent a total of about $6k on the car including the initial purchace and a full paint job (did it myself) but it is totally worth it I think.
Hope this is usefull.
Phil.

[chazza]

I am in the process of finishing a 200tdi conversion on my S3 109". Most of it is straight-forward but there is a lot to do to make it legal and reliable.

One thing you may like to consider, is changing the gearbox, as the Rover box does not like any heavy acceleration in 2nd or 3rd. My plan is to drive to suit the Rover but this may not always be possible.

If you would like a copy of my unfinished notes on converting, send me a PM,

Cheers Charlie

[baden28]

As the others have commented. Note that the 2.5TD engine was not sold in Australia, so these will be very thin on the ground.

As a daily driver the 2a original engine is quite practical when unloaded provided it is up to scratch - there is a very big difference between typical engines and one that has carburetter, ignition and timing spot on. Most engines were fitted with 7:1 compression heads, and unless fitted with an early head, the head is easily skimmed to provide 8:1 (or even higher if you don't mind being confined to premium unleaded). C/R is specified by a 7 (or no mark) or 8 stamped on a raised boss on the top of the head just outside the rocker cover opposite the carburetter. No raised boss = early 7:1 head. The early heads are not guaranteed to have enough metal to safely skim, but you can probably get away with a modest increase.

Other improvements to engine power have been gained by fitting a more free flowing exhaust system, different carburetter and intake manifold, even reprofiled camshaft. But most of these improve peak power at the expense of flexibility, and certainly will not improve fuel economy, which is unlikely to be great whatever you do.

Belt driven superchargers were fitted to a few 2a Landrovers in airport fire service, but I have never seen one or heard first hand anything about them.

Performance will be reduced by the use of oversize tyres, low tyre pressure, aggressive mud tread, dragging brakes, incorrect steering alignment etc.

Parabolic springs provide an improved ride because of the lack of interleaf friction. Almost the same result can be provided by stripping the spring, smoothing any ridges at end of leaves, lubricating and reassembling springs.

The major problem with a 109 as a daily driver is likely to be the lack of power steering and large turning circle when parking, although both are helped with suitable tyres (and pressures) and properly adjusted steering stops.

As a daily driver, fitting a reversing light and four way flashers would be worthwhile - neither were fitted to any 2as sold in Australia - for that matter, early ones did not even have flashers or a LH windscreen wiper.

John


Thanks very much John. I checked the head and found an 8 raised on it, so if I decided to stick with the 2.25 (which after further consideration I probably will) it means I can get it skimmed (I'm happy to be restricted to 95RON and go for a 9:1 CR).


Also I need a new exhaust as the current one is rusted out so I'll take the opportunity to install extractors. I am interested in a different/better carb (any recommendations welcomed) and I will be fabricating a snorkel as well. In relation to tyres I am planning on putting 235/85r16 tyres (all-terrains not mud-terrains) on Dynamic steel rims.


I plan on fully redoing the electrics as I want to install a stereo, UHF, SatNav (mainly so it can act as the speedo and an integrated reversing camera), electric brake controller, driving lights, etc (maybe even some airhorns :D). When I do I will certainly install reversing lights, hazard relay, and anything else that takes my fancy. I'm also looking to keep the front end lights in the original style but as it is a tray-back and I will be building a new tray then I have complete flexibility in what I put on the back end (eg strip LEDs).


Cheers,


Baden.

[baden28]

Baden,

As John has said the 2.25 or 2.6 LR engines have potential that is unexploited in their original set up.
There are several threads on here about mods to both and they include electronic ignition (a must IMHO), extractors, higher compression, better exhausts, better brakes.
I have rebuit 2 2.25 petrol SWB's so far and opted for retaining the original engines in both.
The second one was a complete engine rebuild with new pistons, bearings, conrods, rings, gaskets and seals, reground crank, rebore, head skim, new valve seats and reground valves, new Weber carb. This rebuild was done by George at Land Vehicle Spares in Silverdale, NSW and cost $4k but it was totally worth the effort and cost.
I have added a new rad, Defender seats retrimmed, canvas bikini hood, thermostat, hoses, better exhaust, electronic fuel pump, new high output coil and electronic igintion.
She really goes well now and has been used as a daily driver by my son when his car had to have a head overhaul. No issues at all in 4000km since "new".
I have spent a total of about $6k on the car including the initial purchace and a full paint job (did it myself) but it is totally worth it I think.
Hope this is usefull.
Phil.


Thanks Phil. The car looks great. I'd love to do the engine work you had done but at the moment its a bit beyond my budget (never know what Santa might bring though). I'm keen to go with the electronic ignition. Any advice on type and how to install?


Cheers,


Baden.

[baden28]

Parabolic springs provide an improved ride because of the lack of interleaf friction. Almost the same result can be provided by stripping the spring, smoothing any ridges at end of leaves, lubricating and reassembling springs.




Hi John,


I meant to ask in my previous reply but I think I'll give the existing springs a clean and lube and see how they go but the question I have is about the rear springs. I have 11 leaf springs on the front but only 8 leaf springs on the rear. I thought the rears were supposed to be 11 leaf as well. Is this normal on tray-back 109s or does it should like they've been modified. Most of the time where will be little/no load in the rear but on occasion where will be a heavy load in the rear. Rather than going for stiff springs I was thinking of going for comfort with little to no load and down the track install helper airbags or Sumo Springs.


Cheers,


Baden.

[JDNSW]

Hi John,


I meant to ask in my previous reply but I think I'll give the existing springs a clean and lube and see how they go but the question I have is about the rear springs. I have 11 leaf springs on the front but only 8 leaf springs on the rear. I thought the rears were supposed to be 11 leaf as well. Is this normal on tray-back 109s or does it should like they've been modified. Most of the time where will be little/no load in the rear but on occasion where will be a heavy load in the rear. Rather than going for stiff springs I was thinking of going for comfort with little to no load and down the track install helper airbags or Sumo Springs.


Cheers,


Baden.

I think you will find that the rear springs you have will have much thicker leaves than the front. And you are right, rear springs on the 109 make it a rough ride when empty. For my 109 I have been lucky enough to score a pair of station wagon springs. These are a dual rate spring that gives bith an excellent ride empty and can carry a full load. But they are very rare - these are the only ones I have ever seen on the market! (They were second hand but appeared to be unused)

John

[Phil B]

Thanks Phil. The car looks great. I'd love to do the engine work you had done but at the moment its a bit beyond my budget (never know what Santa might bring though). I'm keen to go with the electronic ignition. Any advice on type and how to install?


Cheers,


Baden.

Baden,

I used a Powerspark complete replacement distributor and matching coil. Found them on Ebay for about $200 from memory.:angel:
Highly recommended, you simply remove the old distributor and replace it with the new one, plug it in and away you go.
Much improved starting hot and cold, pick up and top end.
It will also enable you to take advantage of the skimmed head and extractors by having accurate timing you can play with.
Phil.