Where to learn to weld?

[VladTepes]

I would like to learn to do some basic welding.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

There used to be night classes / TAFE adult learning but these don't seem to be offered any more?

[Debacle]

If you are just looking at arc welding there's some good vids on youtube.

Grab some scrap steel and have a go.

I haven't done any welding for years but I just got went to the library and looked at some books (this was pre internet) and mucked around with some scraps of steel.

My welds weren't works of art but they held together well.

Get a good mask, welding flash isn't fun.

[BigBlackDog]

Look for weldingtipsandtricks on YouTube as a starting point. The guy has a really good way of teaching stuff. I only dabble in arc welding occasionally but I learnt how to do it from watch these videos, and some others, doing some reading and having a go. I look forward to a new welding vid each week, not sure why, I might be weird!
Forgot to say - best thing about welding tips and tricks videos is he has a really good camera setup so you can actually see really clearly what you see through the helmet, I haven't come across anyone else's vids that are nearly as well shot.

[Trundle]

Depends on how you want to approach it, you could go to a "Men's Shed", usually happy to help out and loads of knowledge and skills, or go and see a good welder, most are happy to help out with newbies, just need to be willing, and prepared to either help out with odd jobs, and/or able to work around their schedule. But as others have said, it comes down to practice, these guys can show you all the tricks, but you need to have the time to keep on trying.
Good luck.

[VladTepes]

and, I suppose, to learn and practice I'd need to buy a welder... and that opens up a whole new question....

[Scouse]

There used to be night classes / TAFE adult learning but these don't seem to be offered any more?What about this course at your local TAFE?
Courses in Welding - Basic to Advanced and Certification - TAFE Queensland SkillsTech (http://tafeskillstech.edu.au/course/engineering-related-trades/11066/course-welding-basic-practical#.VJx4wApA)
It's on Tuesday nights & runs for 9 weeks covering all the main welding types.

[isuzurover]

and, I suppose, to learn and practice I'd need to buy a welder... and that opens up a whole new question....

As per the first reply, buy a cheap stick welder, a pack of 2.5 mm welding rods and a welding helmet. Then read up and practice on some scrap steel.

[Chucaro]

Look HERE (www.xlt.com.au/Training-Calendar/Queensland) :)

Info about the place is HERE (http://www.xlt.com.au/Courses/Welding/Welding)

[33chinacars]

Try to find a TAFE that teaches welding.

Buy an auto darkening helmet . Best thing I ever did to improve my welding . Should have got one years ago.

And practice practice practice.

[BMKal]

I was told by an experienced boily that it is easier to learn using a Mig welder than a stick welder. Certainly proved to be the case for me.

I already had a small stick welder (inverter type) that all I could really use it for was to blow holes in steel. :o

So I bought a small Mig welder - got one of the boily's at work to show me how to set it up and a few basic tips, and started playing around in my shed. Picked it up quite easily from that, and then gradually started to use the stick welder more on some heavier work.

I wouldn't say that I am good at it by any means, but I do quite a lot of welding now and it generally holds together. :D

As Debacle said - get a good mask. ;) The auto dimming ones have now come down in price a lot - only way to go IMHO.

[VladTepes]

Thanks for the tips guys.
I've sent off a few emails to the suggested places.

If I was to want to buy a stick welder, where would I start as far as working out what I need. Tips, links, etc welcome. Same with helmet. And where's the best (cheapest) place to buy such tools?

[Chucaro]

Try this one

Nevada MMA-200B MMA ARC DC Inverter Welder Stick Welding Machine (http://www.toolhq.com.au/p-2197-nevada-mma-200b-mma-arc-dc-inverter-welder-stick-welding-machine.aspx?CAWELAID=620006020000006287&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=620006020000014611&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQiAiO-kBRCNxtaJp4-En6sBEiQAnkvW3-f3YRos-hAhs6X9QvrS94IX7wk3VzANoDI9vsOZNvEaAuGt8P8HAQ)

[VladTepes]

Try this one

Nevada MMA-200B MMA ARC DC Inverter Welder Stick Welding Machine (http://www.toolhq.com.au/p-2197-nevada-mma-200b-mma-arc-dc-inverter-welder-stick-welding-machine.aspx?CAWELAID=620006020000006287&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=620006020000014611&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQiAiO-kBRCNxtaJp4-En6sBEiQAnkvW3-f3YRos-hAhs6X9QvrS94IX7wk3VzANoDI9vsOZNvEaAuGt8P8HAQ)

Is that the whole kit? Doesn't seem to have any electrodes as part of it?

Also doesn't specify how may Amps the power supply has to be.

[boa]

That is the key as to what equipment and training you will need. Each type of welding has good and bad points. What do want to weld? Or just another skill to have.

[slug_burner]

I learnt on a MIG, auto darkening helmet, a bit of scrap and a few tips on how to set feed speed and current. Modified a trailer and made brackets for the defender etc. Pretty easy, no holes, no vibrating transformer like when the arc rod gets stuck to the steel. Not the prettiest welds to start with but practise helps. Worst bit about MIG is bottle hire costs. That would be a good reason to try arc.

[Chucaro]

Is that the whole kit? Doesn't seem to have any electrodes as part of it?

Also doesn't specify how may Amps the power supply has to be.

Electrodes are consumables and you get them on the hardware stores among other shops
Specs:
Voltage: 240 V
Duty Cycle: 30%
Electrode: 1.6 ? 3.2 mm
Current Range: 20 ? 140 Amps

I would like something with more duty cycle if you can afford it like this model with 60% duty cycle + it has the TIG mode as well :)

Nevada TIG-200FT TIG MMA ARC DC Portable Inverter Welder Stick Welding Machine (http://www.toolhq.com.au/p-2203-nevada-tig-200ft-tig-mma-arc-dc-portable-inverter-welder-stick-welding-machine.aspx)

[BMKal]

I've found that for a small home stick welder, something like a 100 Amp Cigweld / Transarc Inverter type (commonly referred to as a "Caddy" welder) is ideal.

You can get a decent one of these for anywhere over about $250 if you look around - many places have them on special. BOC or CIG shops are a good place to start if you have them local. I see that Masters is advertising this brand - but we don't have Masters in Kalgoorlie.

This is mine.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/187.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/188.jpg

As far as the "kits" go - it is really only the welder itself and the plastic case it comes in that is of any value. The "accessories" supplied with most of them (chipping hammer / visor / hand-piece and earth clamp) are usually cheap rubbish, and you will soon find yourself replacing them if you use them at all. In particular, the earth clamp supplied is usually flimsy and will soon fall apart, and the spring loaded hand-piece usually supplied is rubbish and does not hold the welding rod firmly - best to replace it with a "twist grip" or similar style. The visors supplied in some of these kits should be consigned straight to the rubbish bin.

If they do supply welding rods as part of the kit - there will only be about half a dozen in a plastic bag, and these are usually pretty crap quality as well. Particularly for a beginner - buy some "Satincraft 13" general purpose rods in 2.5mm diameter. That's pretty mush all I use for everything I do.

I also have the MiniMig 120 (made by UniMig). Great little unit that I bought a while back from a local toolstore in Kalgoorlie when they had them on special. Much easier to use, especially on light work, but cannot handle heavier work very well (I use the stick welder for anything thicker than about quarter inch steel).

Had to hire the gas bottle (you can buy small pressure cans of argon gas but they don't last long) and the trolley it's all sitting on was my first little project when I bought the welder.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/189.jpg

Both of these run on single phase power out in the shed (I don't have 3 phase out there) and they never trip out the breakers. I even run the Caddy off a small gen-set at times (haven't tried this with the Mig though).

I have done work from as small as welding up lightshade frames made from wire for my daughter (using the Mig) up to building new back gates and a large shadehouse for SWMBO. The shadehouse frame is made from drill steel rods (no shortage of them around here) and was welded using the stick welder.

[VladTepes]

Thanks for the info - yeah I'd like to learn for a number of reasons but mostly coz there have been too many times when I've thought.... I wish I could just weld/ fab that up....

I'd like to do a bit of welding and filling on the motorbike I'm building (not structural stuff, just sub frame and brackets etc) and also make up a bike lift,engine stand etc etc.

Endless possibilities....

[isuzurover]

Thanks for the info - yeah I'd like to learn for a number of reasons but mostly coz there have been too many times when I've thought.... I wish I could just weld/ fab that up....

I'd like to do a bit of welding and filling on the motorbike I'm building (not structural stuff, just sub frame and brackets etc) and also make up a bike lift,engine stand etc etc.

Endless possibilities....

Any welding on a bike frame would need to be MIG or TIG. The other stuff would be ideal for stick/arc.

[VladTepes]

Why's that Ben?

[isuzurover]

Why's that Ben?

Unless you are really good with a stick there is a chance you will blow holes in the frame.

[BMKal]

Unless you are really good with a stick there is a chance you will blow holes in the frame.

That'd be me ..................... :eek:

[VladTepes]

OK so having just looked at the 8 intro to mig welding vids (yes it is a bit addictive) and a few others it does seem to me as if a Mig would be a better option to learn on and more flexible for a variety of home workshop tasks.

So what should I be looking at if I wanted to buy a Mig set up.

[isuzurover]

OK so having just looked at the 8 intro to mig welding vids (yes it is a bit addictive) and a few others it does seem to me as if a Mig would be a better option to learn on and more flexible for a variety of home workshop tasks.

So what should I be looking at if I wanted to buy a Mig set up.

For starters about a factor of 10 in price, both to buy the welder and consumables.
my arc setup cost about $100, my MIG $1000, both second hand. On top of that there is gas bottle hire for the MIG unless you want to go gasless - but you may as well just be using a stick with 1.6 mm rods.

[bob10]

If you are not going to make a living out of it, could be best to talk to a mate of mine , a retired boilermaker, with a home workshop equipped for almost anything. And can do almost anything regarding welding, is a top bloke, Bob

[Tote]

I learnt stick and oxy many years ago as part of a farm technology course after I left school.
A couple of years ago I bit the bullet and did 1 year of the TAFE welding course one night a week for 12 months to learn TIG welding. I bought myself a TIG machine for about $1200.00 and can now weld up holes in series Land Rovers.
A couple of Tips:
Buying a gas bottle for a MIG/TIG might be cheaper. Gasweld sell bottles and you can do a swap and go when you need more gas. Much cheaper (for me) than paying $300.00 rental per year.

Get the Miller app for your phone. It very cleverly calculates the current required for most jobs.
Miller - Welding Calculators (http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/calculators/)

Regards,
Tote

[bee utey]

I learnt to weld using a crappy old arc welder, and got fairly proficient with it. The day after I bought my mig welder I disposed of my arc welder to my mate the shonky machinery trader. I've never ever wanted to go back to a stick welder, 30 years later I've still got the same second hand mig. Gas bottle costs are the thing I've had to live with with but the next time I empty my BOC bottle I'm going to Power 10 gases to buy one out right.

Suppliers of Industrial Oxygen and Oxygen Cylinders (http://www.power10gases.com.au/?gclid=CO2UrK6c48ICFVMJvAod0mEAGA)

[isuzurover]

I learnt to weld using a crappy old arc welder, and got fairly proficient with it. The day after I bought my mig welder I disposed of my arc welder to my mate the shonky machinery trader. I've never ever wanted to go back to a stick welder, 30 years later I've still got the same second hand mig. Gas bottle costs are the thing I've had to live with with but the next time I empty my BOC bottle I'm going to Power 10 gases to buy one out right.

Suppliers of Industrial Oxygen and Oxygen Cylinders (http://www.power10gases.com.au/?gclid=CO2UrK6c48ICFVMJvAod0mEAGA)

I still use both. I often leave the MIG on Al and use the stick unless i need to weld some really thin steel.

[VladTepes]

Jeez I didn't realise Migs were so expensive !

Trying to convince the missus that the economics of it make sense.....

Tell me = what sort of welder would be best for building a canopy?

I suppose you need a TIG to do alloy welding?

[VladTepes]

How's this...I asked the same question on my hunting forum and got this response



I've got a Cigweld 'compact 2' that you can have for free. It's nothing flash (only 2 settings) but I've made a lot of ute racks etc. with it over the years.


Cool huh and definitely a starting point.

(The best gear is free gear and this keeps the wife on side! )

I LOVE AHN !

[TheEntertainer]

I signed up with my father in law for a 6 week tafe course. Found that practical real time interaction most valuable.

[Jonno_G]

CIG products are usually pretty reasonable, and free is always a good price for tools. [emoji41]

I was fortunate in that my best mate was moving interstate and didn't have room for his mig welder (150A SIP), so he parked it in my shed - about 15 years ago. It sat around in my shed for a few years until I decided to build a trailer, which was my first real welding project.

I would second the comments about a good auto darkening helmet - my welds went from looking like a duck with diarrhoea walked over them, to something halfway reasonable.

Since then I've been given a small stick welder (140 A Einhell) and I've bought two more (a 240A ESAB stick used, and a 250A CIGWELD MIG new). From this I have found that the better quality machines are easier to make better welds with. The Einhell struggles to even strike a consistent arc with 2.5mm rods, where the ESAB will burn 4.5mm rods all day long. The SIP will make decent welds if you're patient, due to a cheaply manufactured wire feeder, but the CIGWELD will happily feed up to 1.6mm wire very consistently (so I hear - I've not used wrote that size in mind yet)

TLDR; My opinion is that a good quality, known brand name welder, in good used condition, will serve you better for longer when compared to a cheaply manufactured unknown brand. It will be a pleasure to weld with, and won't put you off learning due to unreliable operation.

Cheers,...Jon.

P.S. Electrode choice is important too. But that's a whole different post. Basically, don't buy them from hardware stores, buy good brands from a locally owned engineering supplier, preferably one that has a workshop attached as they will likely give better advice than the sales rep at Bunnings who probably has less welding experience than you. [emoji6]

[Judo]

I'm a noob welder just starting as well and I found this site a nice and simple reference. I printed out some of the pages to keep in the shed so I can compare welds to help diagnose what I've done wrong on a bad weld.

Arc Tutorial - Rod Position, Motion, and Technique (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/learning-arc.htm)

[Jonno_G]

I'm a noob welder just starting as well and I found this site a nice and simple reference. I printed out some of the pages to keep in the shed so I can compare welds to help diagnose what I've done wrong on a bad weld.

Arc Tutorial - Rod Position, Motion, and Technique (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/learning-arc.htm)
Yes, a good site with a bunch of helpful folk in the forum too. I've gleaned a lot of information from there over the years.

Also worth checking out is YouTube user ChuckE2009. He's a young bloke with a lot of enthusiasm. His earlier videos have better instructional value than his later stuff, as he tends to do a lot of product reviews these days, but even they're interesting in their own way, it's just that not all of the brands are available here.

[VladTepes]

There's a guy on there 'weldingtipsandtricks' which I find very understandable. Good camera work helps too.

Looking forward to it,

[Jonno_G]

Tell me = what sort of welder would be best for building a canopy?

Assuming you're talking about RHS steel tube frame with a canvas cover, I'd say the best would be MIG but it can certainly be done with a stick welder.


I suppose you need a TIG to do alloy welding?

No, actually you don't. It can be welded with a MIG quite successfully. I haven't done it myself, but I've seen perfectly acceptable aluminium welds that were done with a MIG. In fact, a friend of mine built an aluminium boat with a MIG.

Or are you asking about aluminium alloy castings, etc?

[isuzurover]

In fact, a friend of mine built an aluminium boat with a MIG.



All aluminium boats are welded with MIGs commercially. TIGs are too slow.

[VladTepes]

I was actually thinking of whats needed to do thin alloy sheet welding and from what I gather an expensive Tig with high current start ??? is needed which means 3 phase...



Anyway that aside, and back to the stick welding.

I have a much smaller project in mind - a stand for my Honda CX500.

[Jonno_G]

All aluminium boats are welded with MIGs commercially. TIGs are too slow.
I suspected as much, but didn't have the experience to back up the claim.

TIG makes for some very pretty welds, but from what I've seen it is time consuming - especially to get it looking really nice.

[UncleHo]

I am also only a beginner welder,I have a "Renagade" 160 compact inverter welder which I bought from "Trade Tools Direct" at Caboolture a couple of years ago,it does what I want it to,160amp variable,single phase,and I use Satincraft 2.5mm sticks and I have a self darking helmet from the same place.

I would suggest you talk to Incisor as he knows the ins & outs of welding ;)

[Toxic_Avenger]

I was actually thinking of whats needed to do thin alloy sheet welding and from what I gather an expensive Tig with high current start ???

For thin material, pulsed mig is the bees knees, but prices start upwards of 2k. This allows a high current portion of the ac waveform and a background current, which relates the heart in the weld. Great for sheet metal.

My opinion is that if you are not in production and have deadlines and 'time is money' concerns, then speed of the process and duty cycle should not be the most important factor in your machine selection. Tinkering in your shed should be a leisurely activity imo.

Tig with high frequency start is not limited to 3 phase machines.

[Jonno_G]

For thin material, pulsed mig is the bees knees...

Just to clarify; Did you mean to say pulsed MIG, or pulsed TIG?


My opinion is that if you are not in production and have deadlines and 'time is money' concerns, then speed of the process and duty cycle should not be the most important factor in your machine selection. Tinkering in your shed should be a leisurely activity imo.

Good point. [emoji3]

[BigBlackDog]

If you want to do aluminium with TIG then it needs to be an AC/DC capable machine. For me I am looking at something that will do AC/DC tig and stick. Then Only need one gas type to weld everything. tig is meant to be a lot harder than MIG but that's all part of the fun I reckon

[Toxic_Avenger]

Just to clarify; Did you mean to say pulsed MIG, or pulsed TIG?
[emoji3]
Mig. You can do some amazing things with the right machine.
A different note,
There is a new technology by EWM called tig speed. It's a tig torch with a wire feeder which adds filler material as needed.

As others before me have mentioned, you are best to go with an acdc tig, as you only need one cylinder. You can Weld most materials, and the results are good.
If you want to burn thru 15kg of wire in a day welding inch thick plate, then go a big three phase mig with 100% duty cycle.

As for learning to weld, practice is your best mate. Learn the signs of a bad weld and how to remedy them and the battle is won.

[Tote]

From my experience - TIG is analagous with Oxy welding - you have the capability to do nice welds on a range of materials - yes even alloy if you are keen enough but it is slow and takes some skill
MIG is much more synonymous with stick welding - much faster but at a loss of fidelity in some situations. This is not to say that a pro can't do most things with a MIG that I could do on a TIG and probably better but is a generalisation that makes some sense I think.
My TIG rig is 15 amp and is one of these WeldSmart 200 Amp Ac/Dc Pulse Tig & Stick Welder Arc | Tig Welders | WeldSmart (http://www.weldsmart.com.au/welding-australia/tig-welders/weldsmart-200-amp-acdc-pulse-tig-stick-welder-arc)

It does everything that I learnt how to do at TAFE and probably more as well.

Regards,
Tote

[BigBlackDog]

My TIG rig is 15 amp and is one of these WeldSmart 200 Amp Ac/Dc Pulse Tig & Stick Welder Arc | Tig Welders | WeldSmart (http://www.weldsmart.com.au/welding-australia/tig-welders/weldsmart-200-amp-acdc-pulse-tig-stick-welder-arc)

It does everything that I learnt how to do at TAFE and probably more as well.

Regards,
Tote

How long have you had the unit for? I've been researching these style units recently. I'm not really sure on what's good quality and what's not, apart from the obvious cheapies from bunnings. Unimig do a unit that seems very similar but for a few hundred bucks more. Not that I can afford or really need it at the moment, when I do I want to get the best unit that will last me forever

[Tote]

I bought my unit in early 2012 from weldsmart via ebay. I've had no problems with it and one of the reasons I chose weldsmart was that they seemed to have a pretty good physical presence so if you had issues you weren't dealing with a bloke with a stack of welders in his garage.
You need to buy the regulator separately though as its not included with the welder.

Regards,
Tote

[Jonno_G]

Unimig do a unit that seems very similar but for a few hundred bucks more.

I've no idea where they're made, but Hare & Forbes have been selling Unimig for years. I've got friends that have had them for over a decade, and I recently used my brother's 250 Amp inverter based multi-process Unimig welder. Very nice unit to use as a MIG on 10mm + material, can't comment on its use with thin material or with other processes.

[Ancient Mariner]

Same deal as Tote about 3 years ago. Arrived with one digit of panel meter not working.One email a new meter and apology been working great ever since.
Very stable down to about 5 amps which can't be said for some of the cheaper inverter welders


AM

[VladTepes]

Welding Helmets

The viewing area seems, perhaps unsurprisingly, to vary with cost.

I was looking into auto darkening helmets in the $100ish range.
Viewing area for these tends to be around 98 x 44.
Is this sufficient to see a job adequately?

The more expenive helmets have a viewing area twice the height - eg 95x85.

[BMKal]

I was looking at new auto dimming helmets in Bunnings yesterday Vlad. Mine is a little worse for wear.

Cheapest one that I saw was $39 - wouldn't buy one like this. But most of what they had on the shelf there were around the $100 mark - I'll probably end up with one of these.

I'd like a "top end" one, but can't really justify the cost for the amount of time I'll use it.

The "window" on my current one is about the 98 x 44 size you've mentioned. It's slightly larger than my old standard flip window style, and I've always found it to be large enough. Mind you, I have to wear reading glasses behind the helmet and get in pretty close to the work to be able to see what I'm doing anyway.

[VladTepes]

I was looking at the Bunnings site earlier and this one seemed good value for money...

Weldcorp Auto Darkening Variable Shade Welding Helmet I/N 5910205 | Bunnings Warehouse (http://www.bunnings.com.au/weldcorp-auto-darkening-variable-shade-welding-helmet_p5910205)

Not sure if this is a recognised brand or a Bunnings only one though and whether replacement lenses would be easy to come by.

[BMKal]

Yes - that's exactly the one I was looking at yesterday.

Not sure if I'd go with the colourful one though (they had a plain black one in Bunnings in Kalgoorlie).

Weldcorp have been around for a long time (Sydney based) and you can buy replacement parts either directly through them or through many agents.

[VladTepes]

Well OK, job done.

For $120 I got the helmet, an inexpensive (but adequate) chipping hammer and some long gloves AND 2kg of 2.5mm satincraft electrodes....

I did alright I reckon.

(The helmet was actually one sale for about $86 ) The colour doesn't bother me ain't nobody much going to see it.

[rfurzer]

Victor Morgado behind Wynyard runs courses- I highly recommend him

[BMKal]

Definitely looks the goods. ;)

All the right gear there to get you started. Another thing that I find handy is to have a couple of magnetic corner locators in the kit. Great for lining up and holding stuff at 90 or 45 degrees while you get the first couple of tacks on. Depends on what you want to weld though (I make up gate frames / shadehouse frames etc).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/1.jpg

Just remember to keep your electrodes in a very dry place - especially if the weather is a bit humid up there. I use an old clapped out microwave oven mounted up on the wall of the shed. ;)

[LandyAndy]

If your rods do get damp,simply put them in the oven on the lowest setting for an hour;);););););)
Makes a huge difference.
Have seen my boilermaker mate but rods on a steel plate and warm them up with the oxy set to dry them too.
Andrew

[Jonno_G]

Probably want a bit more than your lowest oven setting to recondition rods. [emoji6]

Check the manufacturers directions, but some of them say up to for hours at 160 degrees to recondition. Can't remember which rods that was, but I do remember reading it at some point.

That aside, of you remember to keep the lid on those plastic sleeves you should be fine for the most part. Nice looking helmet you've got there, too. [emoji3]

[33chinacars]

Welding Helmets

The viewing area seems, perhaps unsurprisingly, to vary with cost.

I was looking into auto darkening helmets in the $100ish range.
Viewing area for these tends to be around 98 x 44.
Is this sufficient to see a job adequately?

The more expenive helmets have a viewing area twice the height - eg 95x85.

I went for one of the larger viewing area helmets . Couldn't be happier. Cost $400 + a few years ago. Miller , top brand .