Tyres - a slightly different question

[Mk1_Oz]

I realise that tyres have been discussed plenty on here but I have not yet had my questions answered.

I have a D3 TDv6 SE with standard 18" rims.

I am 95% tarmac and 5% towing a heavy camper trailer with only 20% of that being on unsealed country roads. No actual off-roading.

My goals are tarmac safety then tarmac quietness with off-road factors being a distant third.

To date I have used the BadYears (~30,000km), Pirelli Scorpion H/T (~40,000km). Both have been quiet enough on-road but have not lasted well (especially the factory BadYears).

I was going to put on more H/T tyres (brand not yet decided) but am wondering whether I should be using A/T due to the unsealed road travel or if I should even be using light truck rated tyres to better cope with the towing.

Anybody got any informed information???

I have always figured that an A/T tyre will never be as quiet nor safe (road holding) as an H/T tyre but I have not been able to find any factory info directly comparing these options. I didn't buy such a nice car to poke up with tyre rumble/noise and will not compromise my families safety.

[Tombie]

D697 A/T are quiet and so far with a heap of offroad and highway have done 65,000km

[Graeme]

I have always figured that an A/T tyre will never be as quiet nor safe (road holding) as an H/T tyre but I have not been able to find any factory info directly comparing these options.A/Ts generally wont be as quiet as HTs but A/Ts are less likely to aquaplane on water patches in heavy rain. LT's aren't likely to be any less safe with normal driving which presumably you do at least with the family on board. Harsher ride on LTs is the usual factor but the D697 in the D3/D4 18" size only has a LI of 114 so only slightly heavier duty than the minimum allowed passenger rated tyres.

[jon3950]

What sort of country roads do you tow on? Considering you live in Adelaide, do you head north a fair bit?

A/T tyres are pretty good these days, very little noise and pretty good roadholding. I have run A/Ts on my D3 and D4 of various types and never had a problem with roadholding or noise, including towing a car trailer - and I am known to drive somewhat "spiritedly" on occassion. Of course road noise is somewhat subjective, so you may disagree, but I would be genuinely suprised if you found it a problem in a D3.

I'd agree with Tombie's recommendation. I have only experienced D697s on a Colorado and Hilux so far but have been impressed with them.

Cheers,
Jon

[nat_89]

I'm quite happy with the good years so far up to 34000kms and still miles of tread left has been 95% highway and generally at a good cruising speed from 110kmh to 140kmh. I'll probably go with them again.

[Mk1_Oz]

What sort of country roads do you tow on? Considering you live in Adelaide, do you head north a fair bit?

When we go out camping I tow on sealed roads of good quality for around 300km then have a 60km stretch of unsealed roads. These are well maintained albeit covered in stones and small rocks. These must be giving the H/T tyres a hammering at 90km/h!

If light truck tyres give a harsher ride then I would be hesitant to use them. I probably need to consider the total weight on the car tyres when we are all in the car (7 people) and with the weight on the towball. For allI know I may be exceeding the rating of the H/T tyres!!

Is an A/T tyre going to be a different compound to a H/T? The way I see it the only benefit to me of A/T over H/T would be if the compound would hold up to the fast unsealed road stuff better. (Need to point out I have never actually had an issue with H/T tyres on the unsealed roads - no damage and no flats)

[Epic pooh]

I've had pirelli scorpion zero, Goodyear wrangler (x2 sets) and general grabber AT on mine. I like the good years and use them in all kinds of on and off-road conditions. They are German made extra load tyres and are the original land rover spec for the vehicle. They suit the vehicle for mixed use and I doubt you'd exceed the load rating with a fully loaded D3. Mine have not given me any trouble but I am careful off-road with them and very aware of their soft sidewalks and dodgy performance in mud. I can't stand the compromised on road driving of many AT tyres. My main criticism of good years would be the price of them.

[trebor]

Reading between the lines, it seems as though your needs may be best served by having a second set of wheels on to which you would fit a set of A/Ts for use when towing the camper trailer. This is what I have done using D697s. Have been to the Pilbara, Kimberley (x2) and the Simpson on mine. They are an excellent tyre for the tougher work and in my opinion only marginally firmer and noisier than the standard variety. My original Pirellis lasted a total of 30K and so far the D697s have gone 25K and are about 40 percent worn.

Nick
D4 TDV6 2.7 MY12

[Mk1_Oz]

I have recently been thinking along the lines of a second set of wheels Nick. Waiting to find some decent (=el cheapo) std rims in my area.

My first set of BadYears went out of round/scolloped at 20,000km and by nearly 30km I just couldn't stand the noise any longer. Hesitant to ever use them again.......

[BMKal]

I realise that tyres have been discussed plenty on here but I have not yet had my questions answered.

I have a D3 TDv6 SE with standard 18" rims.

I am 95% tarmac and 5% towing a heavy camper trailer with only 20% of that being on unsealed country roads. No actual off-roading.

My goals are tarmac safety then tarmac quietness with off-road factors being a distant third.

To date I have used the BadYears (~30,000km), Pirelli Scorpion H/T (~40,000km). Both have been quiet enough on-road but have not lasted well (especially the factory BadYears).

I was going to put on more H/T tyres (brand not yet decided) but am wondering whether I should be using A/T due to the unsealed road travel or if I should even be using light truck rated tyres to better cope with the towing.

Anybody got any informed information???

I have always figured that an A/T tyre will never be as quiet nor safe (road holding) as an H/T tyre but I have not been able to find any factory info directly comparing these options. I didn't buy such a nice car to poke up with tyre rumble/noise and will not compromise my families safety.

I have the same size rims on my D4 and probably do a similar amount of bitumen / dirt road travel to yourself.

From new, mine had Continental H/T's on it. Very smooth and quiet, but pretty much worn out after 40,000 km. I replaced them with Mickey Thompson STZ's. They are not as aggressive as MT ATZ's but still a tread pattern much better suited to my needs than a H/T pattern. The MTZ's are also not Light Truck rated - but they seem to handle everything that I've done with them with no problems. I've operated them from about 12psi in sand to around 40psi on highway runs with no problems at all.

They are not as quiet as the Continentals were - but not what I would call "noisy" either.

At about 45,000 kms now - they still look like new. ;)

[Nomad9]

Hi MK1 Oz,
I had a set of D697z on my disco 2 and a RR classic, great tyres agree with Tombie. I now have my D3 on GG AT's not the AT2's. I have heard that the AT2 has a harder sidewall and therefore not a comfortable as the standard AT. For the driving I do which sound similar to yours I find then just great. So far 20, 000 and looking just fine. Don't find them to noisy, run them at 38 psi, 42 in the back when towing my camper trailer.
I have had several sets of BFG AT's in the past and been more than happy with them however for me now they are just to expensive when I can get something like the GG tyre.

[Mk1_Oz]

Lots to consider. Which Continentals are on the new D4?

[catch-22]

D697 A/T are quiet and so far with a heap of offroad and highway have done 65,000km

Tombie, can't recall if you were running the Pirelli Scorpion ATR before these?? If so, which do you prefer for noise?

[Mk1_Oz]

While I am asking questions, my D3 currently has 255/60/18 112V Pirellis. I cannot recall what the OEM tyre size was.

What is the widest tyre that the D3 can use?? (Doing some tyre research online)

[~Rich~]

I've run 285/60 R18 Zeons and have to say that there is only about 5mm clearance to the upper control arm on the front. I don't think you could go any wider than that.
It also depends on the tyre too, some are wider than others to some extent.

[Nomad9]

Hi Rich,
You've done well, I've got 255/60/18 GG AT's and I have about 12mm around the top ball joint control arm area. Saying that I have RRS 18 inch rims on, I suspect the clearance would also be rim dependant.

[stewmair]

If you are looking at D697s then try K-Mart tyres. In Bendigo their price was heaps below the Bridgestone outlet and other dealers.
Frontrunner roof rack rumble is a problem.

[Tombie]

Tombie, can't recall if you were running the Pirelli Scorpion ATR before these?? If so, which do you prefer for noise?


No, straight from dealer to home to tyre shop!

Local friend has Scorpions... I don't notice much difference...

[normbourne]

I've heard that the fitting of inner tubes is illegal, is that true..? Too me that would be a bit of a bind, in that I've always favored inner tubes on the premise that one can always recover from a dire situation, providing one carries the appropriate repair gear, self vulcanisng patches, tubes, etc.

In remote situations it is sometimes the case that a rim can become damaged and the sealing of a tubeless might be a problem, whereas this wouldn't present a prob with if inner tubes were fitted.

Thanks,

Norm.

[jon3950]

I've heard that the fitting of inner tubes is illegal, is that true..? Too me that would be a bit of a bind, in that I've always favored inner tubes on the premise that one can always recover from a dire situation, providing one carries the appropriate repair gear, self vulcanisng patches, tubes, etc.

In remote situations it is sometimes the case that a rim can become damaged and the sealing of a tubeless might be a problem, whereas this wouldn't present a prob with if inner tubes were fitted.

Thanks,

Norm.

Not sure about the legality, but practically speaking on modern tubeless tyres I can't see any situation where fitting a tube would be an advantage.

If you damage a tyre badly enough that it can't be repaired, then a tube isn't going to hold air. It will destroy itself through contact with the damaged area. It may work for a while with a damaged rim, but more than likely the tube will pinch or rub in the damaged area and burst anyway.

This topic gets discussed a lot with regard to rally tyres, but the only possible advantage I can see is when you slide sideways into something with enough force to push the bead away from the rim to cause a flat without actually damaging either the rim or the tyre. It happens in rallying but not really relevent to 4wding.

Cheers,
Jon

[Nomad9]

Hi Jon,
I'm in the same camp you are, if it says tubeless it should be tubeless, however in the middle of nowhere anything will go until you get back to civilisation.

[donh54]

Always carry a tube or two in my spares kit. Have done before and after tubeless tyres became popular. Can make an iffy sidewall patch a lot more likely to get you home.

Sent from my HTC One XL using AULRO mobile app

[Mk1_Oz]

I was going to put on more H/T tyres (brand not yet decided) but am wondering whether I should be using A/T due to the unsealed road travel or if I should even be using light truck rated tyres to better cope with the towing.

Nobody has addressed this part of my OP. How resistant to stoney unsealed tracks will H/T tyres be? I would assume (but dont actually know) that H/T tyres will be of a softer compound which although gives better traction, may not handle the off-road stuff well. Having said that, other than cuts and a few minor chucks taken out of the tread surface my H/T have never been damaged yet. Not sure if the out-of-round/scalloping issues I have experienced may have been accelerated by the off-road?

Definitely heading down the H/T path again at this stage...

[Geedublya]

If you are happy with how the HTs have performed up to now and you aren't going anywhere serious stay with them. If you have concerns get some D697s.

[jon3950]

Nobody has addressed this part of my OP. How resistant to stoney unsealed tracks will H/T tyres be? I would assume (but dont actually know) that H/T tyres will be of a softer compound which although gives better traction, may not handle the off-road stuff well. Having said that, other than cuts and a few minor chucks taken out of the tread surface my H/T have never been damaged yet. Not sure if the out-of-round/scalloping issues I have experienced may have been accelerated by the off-road?

Definitely heading down the H/T path again at this stage...

I think its a bit hard to generalise in these sizes as AT tyres tend to be of a lighter construction than more conventional higher profile sizes. In my opinion the line between AT and HT is becoming increasingly blurred and it has a lot more to do with individual tyres.

In terms of tread wear, an HT is going to fare better than an AT because it has less tread. Smaller grooves and fewer edges means the tyre will skip over a rough surface rather than bite into it. This comes at a price - reduced grip levels and less puncture resistance, as there is usually less rubber between the road and the air inside the tyre. An LT construction will generally fare better regardless of tread style as they are built more robustly.

An AT tyre can still wear well on a rough surface, but tyre pressure is the critical factor. To me, the benefits of increased grip and greater puncture resistance will always outweigh any reduced treadwear. Plus what I gain on the dirt is greater than what I lose on the bitumen. It sounds like this equation is different for you. If the Pirellis are coping with your usage and you are happy with them, there is probably no reason to change.

Cheers,
Jon

[Tombie]

HT Tyres are low tread depth, lighter construction.

I wouldn't want to run gibber using them. A nail, stick or stone can easily puncture them.

The heavier (and thicker) cross section of a D697 is far stronger on rock, gibber and potential damage risk surfaces.

They also get better mileage in part due to tread depth / design.

[Mk1_Oz]

Just to finish this off, I bought a set of General Grabber GT's (ie highway terrain). Nice tread depth, great price ($269ea), hold the road well and quiet.

Will see how they go with durability....

[Tombie]

Let us know, I'd be keen to know how far you get on them.