Running, no dissy cap !!!!

[whitehillbilly64]

Is this possible ????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ2KUX-kAXw

whitehillbilly64

[pop058]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Ancient Mariner]

Sounds like a diesel possibly on the PTO

[Scouse]

Looks like a Ferguson tractor which had a Vanguard motor. These were available in petrol & diesel using the same basic engine so I think he's used bits of both types of engine & made a diesel 'look' like a petrol.

[Ancient Mariner]

I thought the IP used the distributer drive position

[Bushie]

Don't see any injectors etc - unless they come into the head opposite side to the spark plugs ?????


Martyn

[Scouse]

Don't see any injectors etc - unless they come into the head opposite side to the spark plugs ?????


MartynYou're right Martyn, same side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1027.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

Yes you can have it happen, here's how you set it up.

First run the car by rich that will carbon up the combustion chambers and let it "diesel".

Run it retarded to.get it started and then advance it as it warms up. When it starts to.Run by itself.advance it another lot .


Without the electrics it will run by the hot spots in the carbon ignigjrinf the fuel mix,
With the electrics and way too Mich advance you'll be firing off the mix which will burn very weekly and not let the engine start, it won't diesel as by the time it gets to the point when the carbon wants to light the flame there no oxy left to support combustion .

It will start and it will run in that set up but it won't do much work other than spin it's. own fan and alternator.

If you do get it working and open up the throttle the mix will Lean out and then as the engine gets to working it will revoke, once the engine is deviled no more got spots no more engine running.

[Outback 1]

Yes you can have it happen, here's how you set it up.

First run the car by rich that will carbon up the combustion chambers and let it "diesel".

Run it retarded to.get it started and then advance it as it warms up. When it starts to.Run by itself.advance it another lot .


Without the electrics it will run by the hot spots in the carbon ignigjrinf the fuel mix,
With the electrics and way too Mich advance you'll be firing off the mix which will burn very weekly and not let the engine start, it won't diesel as by the time it gets to the point when the carbon wants to light the flame there no oxy left to support combustion .

It will start and it will run in that set up but it wo5n't do much work other than spin it's. own
If you do get it working and open up the throttle the mix will Lean out and then as the engine gets to working it will revoke, once the engine is deviled no more got spots no more engine running.
But dave that doesn't explain why it won't run with the cap on ?

[Ancient Mariner]

As Dave said you could get it to run but with no control .To stop you have to stall or close off the intake you would not get rundown like that diesel

[bee utey]

The fact that the camera angle never deviates from a very narrow view of the distributor side makes me think there's plenty outside of that view that could account for the apparent paradox. Another tractor engine, for example.

[slug_burner]

I'll take it that what is presented is as shown and that there is no trickery. Dieseling on a hot spot could partly answer it. I have had this happen on a mini engine, however I could not stop the engine other than by stalling by engaging a gear with the brakes hard on.

I would like to see what happens without the points or with the coil HT lead removed. I am thinking that there is some cross firing happening on the HT leads with the timing so far off that when the cap goes on it does not fire. It runs a bit too smooth for cross firing so perhaps there is more going on.

[isuzurover]

The fact that the camera angle never deviates from a very narrow view of the distributor side makes me think there's plenty outside of that view that could account for the apparent paradox. Another tractor engine, for example.

Slightly wider shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-nTn3BWSs&feature=youtu.be

I am still in the hoax camp though. If it was dieseling why would it stop running when you turn the ignition off?

[ROAMER_AUS]

I've seen this happening on my cousin's 4 cyl apollo/camry ages ago. Combination of 1 missed tooth on cam and veeeeery bad tune. Pull the key out and it still runs, rough as hell tough. Sometimes it would bang with fuel passing to the exaust. Pressing accelerator didn't increase revs, just intensify vibrations. He'd just leave it running until it stops by itself or takes out some vacuum hose and blows in it, if he feels like opening the bonnet tough.

[isuzurover]

I've seen this happening on my cousin's 4 cyl apollo/camry ages ago. Combination of 1 missed tooth on cam and veeeeery bad tune. Pull the key out and it still runs, rough as hell tough. Sometimes it would bang with fuel passing to the exaust. Pressing accelerator didn't increase revs, just intensify vibrations. He'd just leave it running until it stops by itself or takes out some vacuum hose and blows in it, if he feels like opening the bonnet tough.

You are talking about dieseling. This is claimed to be different. Starts and stops with the key, but only if dizzy cap is off. If it was dieseling the engine would run whatever state the ignition was in.

[ROAMER_AUS]

You are talking about dieseling. This is claimed to be different. Starts and stops with the key, but only if dizzy cap is off. If it was dieseling the engine would run whatever state the ignition was in.

Ahh OK, still funny tough :)

[whitehillbilly64]

The second video has already been posted.
I have added this to car/motorbike forums.
It is fast becoming a post of interest.
lots of theories.
Common posts are, Carbon build up, causing hotspot.
Voltage leakage/ something inside dissy cap

whitehillbillies64

[isuzurover]

...

Common posts are, Carbon build up, causing hotspot.

...


Not possible since it starts and stops with the key, and won't run with the dizzy cap on.

my money is still on a hoax. E.g. Hidden wiring and electronic dizzy hidden somewhere.

[vnx205]

Little Grey Fergies are magic machines.

No further explanation needed. :p

[wrinklearthur]

I have struck this before, that distributor cap is porous and the centre lead is shorting direct to all four spark plug leads.

When the cap is put back in place the current then goes direct to the distributor body and the engine stops.

Much more annoying is a brand new rotor button that has shorted between where the centre brush sits and the top of the shaft.
.

[isuzurover]

I have struck this before, that distributor cap is porous and the centre lead is shorting direct to all four spark plug leads.

When the cap is put back in place the current then goes direct to the distributor body and the engine stops.

Much more annoying is a brand new rotor button that has shorted between where the centre brush sits and the top of the shaft.
.

OK, but that doesn't explain how [it is claimed] the engine can run with no cap or rotor button...?

[wrinklearthur]

OK, but that doesn't explain how [it is claimed] the engine can run with no cap or rotor button...?

The current for the spark can pass through the material the cap is made of because it has become porous and moisture has been adsorbed into it, the replacing of the cap then gives a direct path for the current to the ground which is the distributor body.

The current is passed direct through the cap while its free of the distributor body, going direct from the coil lead, to all four spark plug leads and all four plugs, all four plugs then fire at the same time and as the distributor points are still timed correctly the cylinder under compression ignites.

I was waiting for when that bloke was holding the cap free of the running engine to get a very healthy boot from it. :p
.

[whitehillbilly64]

A few experiments going on as we speak.
At the weekend, I am going to get my TED20 Fergy out, remove and tape the 5 leads together, with gap, and see what happens.
Will even try and con the kids into doing a video of it.
Fergies and Landrovers do seem to go hand in hand on English made Tractor Forums.

whitehillbilly64

[Blknight.aus]

But dave that doesn't explain why it won't run with the cap on ?


Yeah it does, read the paragraph about how with the eletcrIcsin place and firing advanced (and I'm.talking 60dbtdc) it will ignite the mix which will.burn weakly.And then when the carbon tries.to.ignight the mix there will be no oxy



No.Oxy, no.ignition.


As for start and stop.on the key, some carbies have a solenoid that controls the flow.to.the idle.andain jets, key off and that closes cutting off all.fuel flow out of the carbine to the throttle.body.

[Lionel]

The current for the spark can pass through the material the cap is made of because it has become porous and moisture has been adsorbed into it, the replacing of the cap then gives a direct path for the current to the ground which is the distributor body.

The current is passed direct through the cap while its free of the distributor body, going direct from the coil lead, to all four spark plug leads and all four plugs, all four plugs then fire at the same time and as the distributor points are still timed correctly the cylinder under compression ignites.

I was waiting for when that bloke was holding the cap free of the running engine to get a very healthy boot from it. :p
.

This sounds the most likely explanation. All the plugs firing at once doesn't matter a damn (ask any Harley rider!). The engine seems to be running too evenly for "dieseling".

I wouldn't advise touching he body of the tractor while it is "running", while holding the distributor cap though!

Cheers,

Lionel

[Ancient Mariner]

A few experiments going on as we speak.
At the weekend, I am going to get my TED20 Fergy out, remove and tape the 5 leads together, with gap, and see what happens.
Will even try and con the kids into doing a video of it.
Fergies and Landrovers do seem to go hand in hand on English made Tractor Forums.

whitehillbilly64
Well ????

[wrinklearthur]

Well! I think that maybe he is still getting over the shock. :woot:
.

[Ancient Mariner]

Well Shocking news!

[SouthOz]

Looks to be running backwards by the rotation of the fan?

Dave

[vnx205]

Looks to be running backwards by the rotation of the fan?

Dave

That is an illusion often called the 'Wagon Wheel Effect".

Any one of the following articles explains why the effect occurs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon-wheel_effect
Geek Answers: Why do wheels seem to spin backwards at high speeds? | Science! | Geek.com (http://www.geek.com/science/geek-answers-why-do-wheels-seem-to-spin-backwards-at-high-speeds-1565327/)
What Makes Wheels Appear to Spin Backward? (http://www.livescience.com/32406-what-makes-wheels-appear-to-spin-backward.html)