R380 Rebuild

[bitdist]

I have to get the gearbox out of my Defender TD5 as the thrust bearing is getting very noisy. While it is out I am thinking it would be worth while doing the bearings and syncros as it is a little crunchy in second. (It has done about 190k) I am very time poor at the moment so I will probably get someone to do it. Does anyone have any recommendations of someone in Melb that would be worth talking to?

[steane]

I'd try a different oil before doing a rebuild. My R380 was a lot crunchy going into 2nd but a change to syntrans improved it out of sight and then a change to Motul Gear 300 made it like new again. That's with 340k kms under its belt.

Having said that, I guess I'd be tempted to get it rebuilt if I was going to the trouble of pulling it out anyway. Piece of mind and all that.

[CraigE]

To get someone else to do it will cost you around $2k plus. I know parts alone to do it properly were over $700. I will be rebuilding one when I have the cash. It may be cheaper to get on from Ashcrofts in England. Cost me around $2300 landed with upgraded bearings.
Cheers
Craig

[justinc]

Most likely it is the spigot bushing in the back of the crankshaft causing the noise, and if it is really bad, will cause gear selection issues, too. They are very prone to this. Make certain it gets replaced or you will be doing the job again....and yes try some different oil first, 190k is still quite young for these transmissions to think about rebuiling, unless of course it has had a poor service life... :-(

Jc

[bitdist]

I have had systrans in it for the last 18 months which did help a lot, but just thinking that while I spend the money getting it out and back in again, that I should do the rest so hopefully that is the last time for it.
The clutch was done 18 months ago (as I didn't know what state it was in when I bought it and I was doing Cape York) so I wont need to touch that.
The noisy bearing sound usually occurs when it is cold and on first start with my foot on the clutch and it is pretty loud. Then if I take it out of gear and let the clutch off it goes away.
I guess even if I get one from Ashcroft then I still need someone to take it out and put the new one back in

[bee utey]

I have had systrans in it for the last 18 months which did help a lot, but just thinking that while I spend the money getting it out and back in again, that I should do the rest so hopefully that is the last time for it.
The clutch was done 18 months ago (as I didn't know what state it was in when I bought it and I was doing Cape York) so I wont need to touch that.
The noisy bearing sound usually occurs when it is cold and on first start with my foot on the clutch and it is pretty loud. Then if I take it out of gear and let the clutch off it goes away.
I guess even if I get one from Ashcroft then I still need someone to take it out and put the new one back in
Spigot bearing, not the gearbox. It probably wasn't replaced at the clutch change.

[bitdist]

I still need to take the box out though to get the spigot bearing changed, so With the slightly crunchy second gear I still wonder whether I should fix that as well

[justinc]

I guess it comes down to economics then, if you are doing it yourself then a spigot bush is a 'cheap' fix. If you are paying someone to do it, and you don't want to touch it again, and you have the readies then go for it. 2nd gear synchro snatching isn't unusual with these gearboxes, it is a matter also if you can live with it or not.

Jc

[CraigE]

My spigot bush squealed for about 12 months before i changed it and the clutch. It had no real effect other than the noise. When removed the bush was still in fairly good nic just dry, but as out was replaced.
18 months later the box dropped the output shaft bearing, so I had a choice rebuild or buy one. I elected to buy one. As said parts alone were going to be around $700, but that is for a complete rebuild, parts would depend on how far you were going with the rebuild.
The biggest issue is around labour. It would depend on how proficient your gearbox builder would be at the task, but I would envisage you would be looking at around $1000 - $1500 in labour alone in Australia with rates over $100 per hour now.
If you can do a lot yourself you can reduce costs.
I will be having a play with my old box when I get another job and a few dollars to spare, but as I needed the Defender running in case i needed it I just bought a complete rebuilt box out of the UK as was just as economical as getting rebuilt here and cheaper than buying a recon box here.
If just doing the spigot it is cheap, but that is if you can remove and refit. The big cost would be labour.
I have found most R380s to be a little notchy into second, even new.

[isuzurover]

I still need to take the box out though to get the spigot bearing changed, so With the slightly crunchy second gear I still wonder whether I should fix that as well

If you switch to syntrans it will probably fix the problem for another 190k km.

[bitdist]

My spigot bush squealed for about 12 months before i changed it and the clutch. It had no real effect other than the noise. When removed the bush was still in fairly good nic just dry, but as out was replaced.
18 months later the box dropped the output shaft bearing, so I had a choice rebuild or buy one. I elected to buy one. As said parts alone were going to be around $700, but that is for a complete rebuild, parts would depend on how far you were going with the rebuild.
The biggest issue is around labour. It would depend on how proficient your gearbox builder would be at the task, but I would envisage you would be looking at around $1000 - $1500 in labour alone in Australia with rates over $100 per hour now.
If you can do a lot yourself you can reduce costs.
I will be having a play with my old box when I get another job and a few dollars to spare, but as I needed the Defender running in case i needed it I just bought a complete rebuilt box out of the UK as was just as economical as getting rebuilt here and cheaper than buying a recon box here.
If just doing the spigot it is cheap, but that is if you can remove and refit. The big cost would be labour.
I have found most R380s to be a little notchy into second, even new.

Mmmm, mine has been doing it for months now, but not every time I start. I have a Simpson trip in the middle of the year which is why I thought I should do it, but if it will keep going for a while yet, maybe I will save the money. I only use it for weekend trips or touring trips so by the middle of the year it might have done only another 1500 km

[Gillie]

Most likely it is the spigot bushing in the back of the crankshaft causing the noise, and if it is really bad, will cause gear selection issues, too. They are very prone to this. Make certain it gets replaced or you will be doing the job again....and yes try some different oil first, 190k is still quite young for these transmissions to think about rebuiling, unless of course it has had a poor service life... :-(

Jc

Hi JC how do you get the bush out? I tried the grease method to no avail. 2nd method was cut a thread in it.

[isuzurover]

Hi JC how do you get the bush out? I tried the grease method to no avail. 2nd method was cut a thread in it.

By the "grease method" - do you mean making a dowel that just fits inside the bush, then packing the bush with grease and hammering the dowel in?

This method has never failed me. The only way I can see it not working is if your dowel is too small.

[Gillie]

The only dowel I had I suspected to be too small. Good to know it works.

Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2 Pro-1380F using AULRO mobile app

[isuzurover]

The only dowel I had I suspected to be too small. Good to know it works.

Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2 Pro-1380F using AULRO mobile app

wrap the dowel in duct tape or electrical tape if it is too small.

[CraigE]

Mmmm, mine has been doing it for months now, but not every time I start. I have a Simpson trip in the middle of the year which is why I thought I should do it, but if it will keep going for a while yet, maybe I will save the money. I only use it for weekend trips or touring trips so by the middle of the year it might have done only another 1500 km

I probably did 30,000kms with mine squealing when cold. Having said that I certainly dont want to lead you into a false sense of security. The job is a PIA but not hugely difficult.

[justinc]

Hi JC how do you get the bush out? I tried the grease method to no avail. 2nd method was cut a thread in it.

A large, flat blade screwdriver, a decent hammer, and chip/ break it out. It breaks up pretty easily and obviously you aren't reusing it ...:D

Time is money... :)

JC

[wrinklearthur]

Make sure you check the fit of the new bush on the gearbox input shaft, before you push the new bush home.

Out of the box some new parts can be a disappointment as the fit can be quite sloppy! :(

[Wicks89]

I probably did 30,000kms with mine squealing when cold. Having said that I certainly dont want to lead you into a false sense of security. The job is a PIA but not hugely difficult.

Literally as soon as this thread appeared my 130 has started with the same issues after some big trips.
Is there a tutorial anywhere on here about how to replace the spigot bushing/bearing? Seems common enough problem to warrant it. I'd love to give it a shot if I could.

Thanks in advance for your wise counsel.

[wrinklearthur]

You can bust the pilot bush out like JC suggested, or you could use one of these.

Ref; Pilot Gear Bearing Puller 3 JAW Bicycle Motorcycle Automotive Flywheel | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pilot-Gear-Bearing-Puller-3-JAW-Bicycle-Motorcycle-Automotive-Flywheel-/251238298703?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a7ef8344f)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/659.jpg
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