Delaminated 2 BFG AT's

[mojo]

Hi guys,

Over the last 2 months, I have had 2 BFG AT's delaminate on the Defender. On both occasions, we were on the highway doing 100 - not a fun experience I can tell you!

They were reasonably old tyres, around 7 years, but had less than 30000k's on them, and plenty of tread. Based on some of my friends experiences with these tyres, I would have expected to get at least 70000k's out of them.


I'm just wondering if others have experienced this issue with BFG's? I'm very tempted now to get rid of these and put on something else.

Cheers
Sean

[Loubrey]

Hi mojo,

In all honesty never heard of it on BFG's. I've exclusively used them for the past 20 odd years (AT' MT and RT) and AT's (M+S) will give you well over 80,000km on road, gravel and sand.

Could you give more info please?

You say 7 years old with only 30,000km - how so and what was their condition when not in use (always inflated)?

Do they have "Made in USA" stamped on them? - Apparently ones made elsewhere in the world don't always have the same compound. Not sure of the BFG US relationship with these tyres.

Any environmental "attack" ie sun, cold, concrete floor etc when not in use?

Cheers,

Lou

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Steel belted tyres can suffer from delamination caused by rusting of the belt. This is enhanced when the tyres sit outside on soil (instead of bitumen or concrete pavement) for long periods without moving. The rust breaks the bond between the belt and the rubber and when the tyre then gets hot it delaminates and or blows out.

You can usually observe what looks like a blister in the tread or side wall prior to a blow out. This is the reason why tyres are dated and its recommended they are replaced at time intervals not just condition and wear.

[mojo]

The reason for the low k's on the tyres is simply lack of use over the last 3 or 4 years. However, the tyres have always been inflated, and the car always get's taken for a run at least every 2 or 3 weeks - it's not like it has sat stationary for a year or more. It is parked under a car port, so would not have received much in the way of sun damage, and has never sat for extended periods on soil. I can't say I noticed any blisters on the tyre, but I wasn't really looking either.

One thing I have changed recently is the pressures. I always used to run the tyres at around 40psi all around - I'm not even sure where I got this figure from, but that is what I used for years. For some reason I was reading the owners manual recently, and noticed it recommended something along the lines of 28psi front and 46psi rear. I hunted around and found the tyre pressure sticker on the door frame, and it said the same. So for the last few months I have been running at close to these pressures, and both delaminations (one front tyre and one rear tyre) have happened at these pressures. I would be interested to know what pressures others are running.

Cheers
Sean

[Loubrey]

Hi mojo,

Thanks for that, still very odd as I've never heard of them delaminating before.

The pressures and the change up might have contributed I suppose...

I've only ever owned 90's and I certainly don't run Land Rover's recommended pressures. Empty on my daily drive I run all 4 on 32Psi as a 90 will be very bouncy on higher pressures without load. I'll go up to 40Psi on the rears when she's loaded up with her 500kg payload when travelling, but that would be it.

28Psi seems very low as well, regardless of recommendation... Was it the hard rears or the soft fronts that went?

Learn something new every day as well considering Lotz-A-Landies' post! Never knew they did that, but then I've never done low enough kilometers to let them get that old to have that happen.

Cheers,

Lou

[mojo]

Hi mojo,

28Psi seems very low as well, regardless of recommendation... Was it the hard rears or the soft fronts that went?



One rear and one front.

I may try to contact BFG - anyone know if they have a warranty against tyres delaminating?

Cheers
Sean

[mojo]

One other question - when I changed the tyre, a perished rubber cap fell onto the ground. I assume it's supposed to go over the hub. Do I need to get a replacement - is it necessary?

Cheers
Sean

[Graeme]

My daughter had a rear one explode at 110 kph en-route to my place. Inspection once she arrived revealed the other side was also about to explode, with cracked, bulging tread in a couple of places. Those tyres were the last of an old set. The front ones were then relegated to the trailer as they were also fairly old.

[mojo]

I just rang the dealer who fitted the tyres, and they said that the normal warranty is 5 years. According to him after that the "oil" in the tyre starts to dry out and problems such as cracking and delaminating might happen.

I think I'll ring BFG anyway and see what they say.

Cheers
Sean

[Tombie]

One rear and one front.

I may try to contact BFG - anyone know if they have a warranty against tyres delaminating?

Cheers
Sean

Not on a 7 year old tyre there isnt... ;)

[Loubrey]

One other question - when I changed the tyre, a perished rubber cap fell onto the ground. I assume it's supposed to go over the hub. Do I need to get a replacement - is it necessary?

Cheers
Sean

Sean,

If you're talking about these, yes replace asap and change all 4 as they are all the same.

Land Rover Defender Front Hub Rubber Dust Cap - JGS 4x4 Land Rover Parts (http://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/land-rover-defender-front-hub-rubber-dust-cap-1356-p.asp)

What the heck is in the air where you live? I've seen these 20 years old and still doing their job (well just about). You usually loose them long before they perish!

Cheers,

Lou

[mojo]

Yep, that looks like the rubber cap that fell out, except mine was in pieces. Thanks for the link, I'll order some replacements.

Cheers
Sean

[gusthedog]

In my experience, tyre life expectancy is between 6-10 years. Do you know the date of manufacture of your tyres?

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/passenger/care/age.aspx

[lebanon]

I had the same on my old BFG Trac-Edge tires, the supplier informed me that the main cause for this deterioration is the high UV from the sunlight, which I believe is the same in Australia.
His advice under such conditions is a new set of tires every 5 to 6 years.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/824.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/825.jpg

[BilboBoggles]

So tyre manufactures can't put a UV stabilizer in their rubber compound, given that their product is used outside... in the sun!!. I reckon they are giving a plausible pile of BS to fob off any sort of blame.

I too have experienced instances of BFG carcass failures - lots of cracking on older tyres, mostly MT's. These were on older tyres (5+ years) that were not used frequently. But I've also had much older other brands that lasted till they wore out. (10years on a set of Factory Defender Tyres)...

I have a theory that the BFG MT tread design means the rubber has to flex more than perhaps other non MT tyres as it rotates, and this flexing is what causes the cracks. I guess there is a trade off between making the rubber so flexible it does not crack when flexed - and a tyre that lasts 80,000k's

Either way - I do think replacing the tyres at 5 years is a good idea.

(Perhaps not practical when you have 10 land rovers that are used infrequently though)....

[mojo]

So I've been contacted by a bloke from Michelin, who I assume either own BFG or perhaps distribute them in Australia. They were pretty much uninterested in what happened, and certainly were not about to offer any kind of compensation. I guess the tyres were a couple of years out of warranty, but given the low k's on them I was hoping they might at least offer a good price on some replacement tyres. His only suggestion was to give me the names of some of their dealers and shop around for the best price.

I'm definitely going to replace the remaining tyres, it's just a matter of what with. Not sure yet if I'll stick with the BFG's or get something else.

Cheers
Sean

[Tombie]

An interesting one for you... I have several friends in the tyre game...

One was a dealer of BFG and I was speaking to him about them.

He showed me a new tyre with small little 'dots' where the edge of the tread met the sidewall.

With a bit of a rub he managed to expose the slightest little amount of metal - a little piece of belt it would appear.

As he was showing me this a Patrol limped in with 2 blown BFG tyres...

This was not the first time he had seen it, and suggested that the batches of tyres at the time had belt fragments that exposed to air rusted and this helped the tyre weaken.

Whether this was the case I can not confirm, but it seems interesting that it played out.. And a few additional failures soon after from what he told me.

He switched customers to GY

[Loubrey]

Regardless of that, BFG Australia offers warranty for 6 years from date of sale or 9 years from date of manufacture and wear down to 1.6mm if you don't cross over into their exclusions list.

The main thing is that not all people selling BFG in Australia are authorised dealers - that is certified by BFG USA and receive their tyres directly from the factory and not via a third party wholesale distributor.

Warranty | Tyres | BFGoodrich Tires Australia & New Zealand (http://www.bfgoodrich.com.au/warranty/)

Tyreplus is one of a surprisingly short list of authorised BFG suppliers, hence my reason for dealing exclusively with them. Their database shows every bit of detail surrounding the fitment of tyres on my car (both my A/T and M/T sets) and they offer free rotation and re-balance service when needed. They also ensure that everything stays inside the exclusion list in terms of data collection and materials used.

I recently bought an APT track rod and drag link, which they fitted and the associated wheel alignment has been recorded for wear and warranty purposes.

Sean (mojo), if you have sales receipts I would still check the facts vs the warranty. You might however get done on the "improper storage" item though, because if they're not in use they should really be off the car and stored off the ground and in the shade (impractical I know, before the abuse flows, but those are the breaks...)

Cheers,

Lou

[ozscott]

Cant go wrong with Maxxis or General Grabbers both in LT for sheer strength amongst other noble virtues if your looking for replacement tyres.

CHEERS

[mojo]

Cant go wrong with Maxxis or General Grabbers both in LT for sheer strength amongst other noble virtues if your looking for replacement tyres.

CHEERS

Thanks, I'll check them out. I've also heard good things about the Continental Cross Contact AT's so will look at them as well. I suspect all of these options are cheaper than the BFG's, although the price doesn't concern me that much.

Cheers
Sean