"Low Battery Warning- Start car now" with Traxide DBS fitted

[mijango]

I recently got the above message followign using the car (D4 MY10 TDV6 SE) on a camping trip over New Year. What is strange is that although I was running a fridge and a few other items from the rear merit type socket, I have installed a Traxide Dual BAttery System.
Shoudn't the system isolate the main cranking battery before it gets down to a voltage that triggers THAT message on the dash? "Low Battery Warning - Start Car immediately" (or words to that affect). It is slightly worrying if I was more remote.

Hopefully Drivesafe will chime in, but good to hear other people's thoughts :D

[Tombie]

Opening doors etc draws on the main battery every time you open them and the vehicle wakes up.

I'm sure Tim will have some insight.

[drivesafe]

Hi mijango, and usually this only occurs if you have been parked up for a few days and have been opening doors on the D3 to often.

once you drove home, the message would have ( should have ) cleared.

The other thing to watch for, is the state of your cranking battery. If it's on it's way out, that message can be an indication of a new battery needed soon.

Just see if the messages cam back or remain off.

EDIT:- Just beat me to it Mike

[jon3950]

Its an unnerving message when you are out on your own. I have just been through this myself and I got the message on the first afternoon after a full days drive. So after some research and good advice from Tim I can make the following observations:

The low battery warning comes in at 12.2V

The D4 requires 11.58V to start.

The Traxide will isolate the cranking battery at 12V.

Therefore as long as the led on the Traxide is not flashing, you will know that your cranking battery is definitely above 12V and all is good.

When camping try the following:

Keep opening doors to a minimum, as this wakes up the system. Either leave a door open, or even a window to reach through.

Turn your interior lights off automatic so they don't keep coming on when a door is opened.

Turn off the centre screen before shutting down the engine. This stops it coming on when you open a door, but it will turn on again when you start the engine.

It is also worth charging your battery regularly. I have recently had my battery replaced under warranty and after only 2 months or so the new one was only charging to 80% capacity. After a couple of overnight charges it has now returned to charging to 100%.

Cheers,
Jon

[mijango]

Thanks for your responses guys.

We were camping for 4 days and the doors were opening and closing a fair bit, though I was driving the car for at least an hour each day. Also I have replaced most of the interior lights with LEDs and the cranking battery was replaced 18mths ago just before I installed the DBS. For the past year, I've also tried to give it a regular charge with the mx5 ctek charger once a month, or after a trip (after reading lots of chat here about short urban journeys).

I guess what I really want to do is to further diagnose/ get peace of mind by checking:

1. That the isolator is def working (maybe I installed incorrectly?!). Is there anyway I can check that Tim?

2. voltage analysis on the main battery. Maybe before and after charging. Does anyone know what sort of voltage readings should I be seeing?

[mijango]

Messages crossed in cyber aulro world Jon :-)
That's very helpful- thanks! I'll go and check the voltage and state of the isolator light

[LandyAndy]

From a reply from Tim I got and how I understand his reply.
The Battery monitor system logs the electrigery in the late D4s,when it next tests the battery and there is a difference in charge from what it remembers it tells you to start the motor.I got it after charging my system for the first time,it was fully charged.A drive with full electrical load on sorted it.
I just returned from 4 days away and can tell you my experiences,VERY HAPPY.
I loaded the 80lt engel up with warm drinks in the fridge section and warm water bottles in the freezer section,put the engel on freeze and the Ctek on.This was the day before leaving and was left unatended as I got called into work to fight fires.
It was 45degC,D4 locked in my shed overnite.Was quite concerned the morning we left,the bottles hadnt frozen,engel said -6 in the freezer,my heat sensor gun agreed.Put my bait in and drove to Albany a 2.5hr drive.The temp had dropped a bit and the bottles froze a bit.I put the bait in the freezer at the accom just incase.
The engel must have ran flat out all nite to freeze the bottles but it did.On opening the D4 got the low battery warning.Started it drove for 3 mins to get the paper and the message went.
The engel ran on freeze at -21 for the 4 days no futher issues,the beer and champs in the fridge section were ICE cold.The fridge did not cut out at all(Traxide low voltage cutout fitted).
VERY HAPPY,the D2 wouldnt have run as long without solar or battery charger input.
Andrew

[scarry]

My main battery has been lower than 12v many times and i have never seen the message.
In fact before the main battery was replaced under warranty i often noticed the green LED on the traxide system flashing,and when i checked the main battery voltage it was always lower than 12v,often around 11.7 to 11.9v.
Maybe the MY12 d4 or the 2.7 are programmed differently.

I now regularly charge mine with a Ctek5 charger.

[LandyAndy]

My main battery has been lower than 12v many times and i have never seen the message.
In fact before the main battery was replaced under warranty i often noticed the green LED on the traxide system flashing,and when i checked the main battery voltage it was always lower than 12v,often around 11.7 to 11.9v.
Maybe the MY12 d4 or the 2.7 are programmed differently.

I now regularly charge mine with a Ctek5 charger.

From Tims post to me,it seems the update models data log the battery voltage where the older just test on startup.
The BCM doesnt then understand added or taken voltage since the last start so it requests a start up.
Its what I understand from Tims reply,see if he replys here.
Andrew

[VladTepes]

Should I mention that I can open and close the doors on my 300Tdi Defender as often as I like? :lol2:

[jon3950]

Should I mention that I can open and close the doors on my 300Tdi Defender as often as I like? :lol2:

You can mention that. Its probably also worth mentioning that it doesn't make much difference whether they are open or closed. :p

Cheers,
Jon

[JamesH]

"Turn your interior lights off automatic so they don't keep coming on when a door is opened."

Ive never figured out how to do that! Gives me the irrits.

[shorty]

"Turn your interior lights off automatic so they don't keep coming on when a door is opened."

Ive never figured out how to do that! Gives me the irrits.


On my 07 D3 you just have to hold down the interior light button (near the rear view mirror) for about 5 seconds. The lights give a quick flash and then they are 'off' even when doors are opened. The reverse will turn them back on to automatic.

Cheers,

Matt

[VladTepes]

You can mention that. Its probably also worth mentioning that it doesn't make much difference whether they are open or closed. :p

Cheers,
Jon

:lol2: Touche !

[Tombie]

"Turn your interior lights off automatic so they don't keep coming on when a door is opened."

Ive never figured out how to do that! Gives me the irrits.

Its in the secret book in the glovebox :cool:

Push and hold light switch for ~5 seconds

Do it again to return to normal operations

[lpj]

..............Also I have replaced most of the interior lights with LEDs......

would you mind letting us know where you sourced the LED's? I'm keen to do this myself.

Luke

[LandyAndy]

Should I mention that I can open and close the doors on my 300Tdi Defender as often as I like? :lol2:

TRODGOLITE:p
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[mijango]

Some interesting discussion both here and in this recent post which I found v useful http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=212945

A few people have mentioned that leaving the key in the car (my wife is v trusting!) while camped up causes the "low battery start car now" message. Guilty as charged, so that should be an easy fix next time.
As should the 5s hold for deactivating the interior lights, and also turning off the screen before shutting down the car.

I should also add that I took my car into Graeme Coopers yesterday in St Peters who I rate v highly (unlike a certain LR specialist in brookvale which is 1km down the road from me but that's another story). It went in as the car also went into limp mode while towing and apparently there were injector faults and memory issues. Coopers feeling was that the low voltage may be related, but either way they patched both the engine and transmission with latest software updates from LR in the UK. Side point: it drives superbly now 😃😝

Coopers also felt that a DC-DC charger is a better setup than Traxide's for the D4s that have the BAttery Mgt System (BMS). Their reasoning being that the BMS views it as another electrical draw which is comprehendible to the system, as opposed to simply bolting on another battery with an isolator (though I think it's a bit more than just that). While I got a bit out of my technical depth I did mention how many positive comments I'd read on the Traxide kit on both this and disco3.co.uk

In summary I feel I've learned a lot and will see what happens on our Australia Day camping trip (back to the tops would you Adam and Eve it 😗

Oh, and the LED interior lights I read about on disco3.co.uk. There's a long thread about them with a company called HIDS4U that supplies them. I also got some reversing lights which make reversing at night very easy and really lights up the ground behind you. The interior lights are superb and have a natural feel, while drawing less power.

Next project: to fit my Osram DRL/fog lights that arrived this morning 😄

[drivesafe]

Coopers also felt that a DC-DC charger is a better setup than Traxide's for the D4s that have the BAttery Mgt System (BMS). Their reasoning being that the BMS views it as another electrical draw which is comprehendible to the system, as opposed to simply bolting on another battery with an isolator (though I think it's a bit more than just that). While I got a bit out of my technical depth I did mention how many positive comments I'd read on the Traxide kit on both this and disco3.co.uk

That's a typical comment from people who use ordinary VSR type isolators, and they are right.

Mine do not work that way and so far, not a single problem from anyone using my gear in new D4s, and this includes being able to charge any number of house batteries located back in a camper trailer or caravan.

But mijango, let us know when you get back from your trip.

[rufusking]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the BMS monitor current flow through the vehicles negative / earth side, so anything (including and aux battery) drawing current will register in the BMS?

[drivesafe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the BMS monitor current flow through the vehicles negative / earth side, so anything (including and aux battery) drawing current will register in the BMS?

Hi rufusking, and NO.

If the vehicle's dual battery system and all electrical accessories added to the vehicle, have been installed correctly, then their negative connections should have been made somewhere other than the negative terminal on the cranking battery.

As such, if all electrical additions have been wired correctly, then the only current that will flow through the EARTH lead on the cranking battery will be that created by the cranking battery itself.

[drivesafe]

To help with how this works.

The alternator is earthed through the engine and then to the chassis via an earth lead.

So what happens when, say your cranking battery is drawing 20 amps.

Your auxiliary battery is drawing another 20 amps.

Your driving lights are drawing 15 amps

Your fridge in the cargo area is drawing 5 amps.

Your entertainment system is drawing 25 amps.

Thats a total POSITIVE draw of 85 amps being drawn from the alternator via the connection on the cranking battery's positive ( + ) terminal.

BUT the 85 amp earth return for all this current is coming from the chassis.

The earth returns for the Auxiliary battery, driving lights, fridge and entertainment system are connected directly to the chassis so they do not come back to the alternator via the cranking battery. A total current draw of 65 amps.

The only earth return current coming via the EARTH lead on the cranking battery is the 20 amps the cranking battery is itself drawing.

So as the BMS is monitoring the EARTH lead at a point between the cranking battery negative terminal and where the EARTH lead connects to the chassis, and therefore the BMS will only see the 20 amps the cranking battery is creating.

Hope that helps to explain how the BMS monitors the cranking battery and why you should not connect ANYTHING to the cranking battery's negative ( - ) terminal.

[LandyAndy]

Tim.
When connecting a Ctek,or any other charger is there an issue connecting the charger dircet to the aux battery,both pos/neg????.
Ctek has spark protection if thats an issue.
Andrew

[drivesafe]

Hi Andrew and it is standard safety practice to never connect jumper leads or battery charger leads to the negative terminal of the battery needing to be charged.

So if you are going to be connecting to the battery with alligator clips, then the positive clip goes the the battery's positive terminal.

The negative clip must not be connected to the negative terminal. This must be connect to an earth somewhere away from the battery.

BUT, if you are going to fit the Ctek lead with the eye terminals directly to the battery, then this can be to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals.

Then it is safe to connect the battery charger via the plug.

And yes, if you have one of my isolators, this can all be done on the auxiliary battery, and both batteries will be charged.

[wbowner]

Hi Andrew and it is standard safety practice to never connect jumper leads or battery charger leads to the negative terminal of the battery needing to be charged.

So if you are going to be connecting to the battery with alligator clips, then the positive clip goes the the battery's positive terminal.

The negative clip must not be connected to the negative terminal. This must be connect to an earth somewhere away from the battery.

BUT, if you are going to fit the Ctek lead with the eye terminals directly to the battery, then this can be to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals.

Then it is safe to connect the battery charger via the plug.

And yes, if you have one of my isolators, this can all be done on the auxiliary battery, and both batteries will be charged.
Hi
I use the CTEK lead with the eye terminals and I have the +ve connected to main battery and the -ve connected to the -ve post on the aux battery and it works ok.
Mainly done this way as getting at the earth point on car was a bit tight. I have a Traxide dual battery set up as well.

Richard

[stray dingo]

So if you are going to be connecting to the battery with alligator clips, then the positive clip goes the the battery's positive terminal.

The negative clip must not be connected to the negative terminal. This must be connect to an earth somewhere away from the battery.

BUT, if you are going to fit the Ctek lead with the eye terminals directly to the battery, then this can be to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals.

Then it is safe to connect the battery charger via the plug.


Whats the difference whether alligator clips or eyelets - aren't they both performing the same function?
Presumably when you say 'CTek', that is substitutable for other brands (eg my repco 7 stage with eyelet connections), or is there something particular about ctek?
thanks
Andrew

[drivesafe]

Hi Andrew, the reason I mentioned the Ctek eye terminals is because they come with both two leads, one with clips and one with eye terminals.

There are a number of other brands with similar leads.

The point about the eye terminals is that you need to spend the time to install them before you use the charger and as such, dramatically lower the chances of causing a spark and igniting and hydrogen that may have built up around the battery.

Whereas, with clips, people are more likely to connect straight to the battery's terminals without realising the danger it imposes.

[discotwinturbo]

Whats the difference whether alligator clips or eyelets - aren't they both performing the same function? Presumably when you say 'CTek', that is substitutable for other brands (eg my repco 7 stage with eyelet connections), or is there something particular about ctek? thanks Andrew

As long as you don't have the unit powered on you will be fine. Just connect it all up nice and secure, then hit the switch on the power point.

My preference is to use the soft fittings supplied with the CTek and leave those permanently fitted....I have 6 of these soft fittings on 6 different batteries.

Brett....

[wbowner]

Got the message tonight on my d4 my14

I probably have not driven for about a week ago

I was doing things in the car and had the doors open for an hour or so at most.

Before starting I went onto to the tekonsha p3 troubleshooting section to see what the battery was reading
This is not the best way to do it. It said 11.95v

I started the car ok and as you expect it went up as I went for a drive

I have left the car idle and will check again later and will put on the charger over night

I have a Traxide dual battery set up

Richard

[drivesafe]

Hi Richard, and you can start your motor with a cranking battery voltage as low as 11.6v, so you are fine there.

As to idling to charge a battery, you are far better off going for a half hour drive than idling for two hours, and the drive is better for your motor than idling it for long periods.

And it's more fun going for a drive!!!!!!!

[wbowner]

Hi Richard, and you can start your motor with a cranking battery voltage as low as 11.6v, so you are fine there.

As to idling to charge a battery, you are far better off going for a half hour drive than idling for two hours, and the drive is better for your motor than idling it for long periods.

And it's more fun going for a drive!!!!!!!

Tim,
yep I went for a drive. I then parked the car for an hour while going for a walk and checked the battery via the Tekonsha when i got back and it read 12.6.

I have not put it on the charger tonight as want to check again in the morning via voltmeter. Unfortunately I can't drive much at the moment so it will be idle again.

I will charge it once a week I think.

Richard

[catch-22]

The point about the eye terminals is that you need to spend the time to install them before you use the charger and as such, dramatically lower the chances of causing a spark and igniting and hydrogen that may have built up around the battery.

Whereas, with clips, people are more likely to connect straight to the battery's terminals without realising the danger it imposes.

So.....connecting a CTEK with the supplied alligator clips directly to the + and - of a D4 primary battery is discouraged, not because it poses a risk to the BMS, but solely because of the potential of igniting built up gases??

Is this right?? Just want to be clear before I connect my new CTEK.....

**goes to read through LR book**

[catch-22]

+++ Book says to remove the battery from the vehicle

[Tombie]

Positive terminal and earth point - not negative terminal.

And the reason for removal - batteries can and have caught fire / melted down under charge causing damage.

Out of the vehicle is always the safest!

[drivesafe]

Hi Catch22 and I think you will find the suggestion to remove the battery from the vehicle goes along the same line of removing the potential of the battery exploding in the engine bay.

To make things easy, connect the battery charge positive lead to the cranking battery's positive ( + ) terminal, and the battery charger's negative lead to one of the two M6 studs, located just in front of the cranking battery compartment.

Job done.

[letherm]

So.....connecting a CTEK with the supplied alligator clips directly to the + and - of a D4 primary battery is discouraged, not because it poses a risk to the BMS, but solely because of the potential of igniting built up gases??

Is this right?? Just want to be clear before I connect my new CTEK.....

**goes to read through LR book**

I use one of these. It connects to the white plug (European caravan plug)

Tow electrics charger adapter - CTEK/Accumate/Optimate etc - DISCO3.CO.UK - Shop (http://disco3.co.uk/shop/tow-electrics-charger-adapter-ctek-accumate-optimate-etc-p45.html)

[letherm]

Apologies in advance for off topic post but is there a correct way to attach compressor cables to a D4. I have a Big Red compressor that I used to attach to the positive and negative terminals of my old Pajero and then start the engine while I pumped up the tyres. What is the correct way to do this on a D4 (MY13) ? I'm asking after reading about not using the negative terminal when jump starting/charging because of potentially zapping the battery management unit etc.

Martin

[jon3950]

Apologies in advance for off topic post but is there a correct way to attach compressor cables to a D4. I have a Big Red compressor that I used to attach to the positive and negative terminals of my old Pajero and then start the engine while I pumped up the tyres. What is the correct way to do this on a D4 (MY13) ? I'm asking after reading about not using the negative terminal when jump starting/charging because of potentially zapping the battery management unit etc.

Martin

Apart from the whole exploding battery thing, any current draw from the battery needs to go through the BMS (for the MY13). If you always connect the negative to an earth point you will be ok. The easiest one is the one just in front of the battery box.

Just don't **** with the negative terminal. Negative to an earth point always and you can't go wrong.

Better still still get the Traxide kit with an Anderson plug at the rear and fit an Anderson plug to your compressor. So much easier than lifting the bonnet every time you need to use your compressor.

Cheers,
Jon

[SimmAus]

Better still still get the Traxide kit with an Anderson plug at the rear and fit an Anderson plug to your compressor. So much easier than lifting the bonnet every time you need to use your compressor.

Cheers,
Jon

*2

You can also recharge the batteries through the Anderson at the rear.:D

Cheers
Mark

[John & Deb]

How do you "turn off the screen before shutting down the car"?
(I have a MY11 TDV6.)

[jon3950]

How do you "turn off the screen before shutting down the car"?
(I have a MY11 TDV6.)

I have an MY13 with the big screen, so of course it's probably different. On mine there is a power button on the bottom left hand corner of the home screen. pressing this brings up the the screen saver which also has the same button on it. Pressing it again turns off the screen completely.

On mine this stops the screen turning on when you open a door. However it still comes on normally when you turn on the ignition.

Cheers,
Jon